tv MSNBC Live MSNBC December 18, 2016 9:00am-10:01am PST
fight heartburn fast. with tums chewy delights. the mouthwatering soft chew that goes to work in seconds to conquer heartburn fast. tum tum tum tum. chewy delights. only from tums. good being with you. it's high noon in the east. and it is actually noon in the east, 9:00 a.m. out west. here is what's happening. >> we have done everything else the opposite. >> the opposite, donald trump at his latest rally talking about how he might approach thes resy. reaction and how america views his transition move so far. cornering the hope market.
the president-elect responds to michelle obama's remarks on the mood of america. and the final word on the 2016 election comes tomorrow. that's when the electoral college votes. could anything change the expected outcome? i will talk to an electoral expert. big chill. large parts of the country gripped by a bitter, dangerous and deadly cold. the latest forecast ahead. we begin with politics and president obama under attack today for his handling of russia's election interference. among the correctics, john mccain, former ranking member of the homeland security committee. >> the president has no strategy and no policy as to what to do about these various cyberattacks that have possibly disrupted an american election. the question now is, how much and what damage and what should the united states of america do? and so far, we have been totally paralyzed. >> robert gates, secretary of
defense from 2006 to 2011, tried to make sense of russia's actions. >> i would characterize it as a thinly disguised covert operation intended to discredit the american election. and to basically allow the russians to communicate to the rest of the world that our elections are corrupt, incompetent, rigged, whatever. and therefore, no more honest than anybody else's in the world, including theirs. and thus, the u.s. ought to get off its high horse in telling other nations how to conduct their elections. >> a new poll out today from nbc news and "the wall street journal" finds more than half of americans are significantly bothered by russia's role in the election. while more than a third believe it helped donald trump to victory. trump is in florida. tell us what's on the president-elect's agenda and one item from last night's rally that's grabbing attention.
>> reporter: good morning. last night, trump grabbed some people's attention when he started talking about michelle obama's latest comments in which she said now we're feeling what it feels like to have no hope. instead of lashing out as we saw him do repeatedly on the campaign trail, he took a little different tack. why don't we take a look? >> michelle obama said yesterday that there's no hope. but i assume she was talking about the past, not the future. because i'm telling you, we have tremendous hope. and i actually think she made that statement not meaning it the way it came out. i really do. because i met with president obama and michelle obama in the white house. my wife was there. she could not have been nicer. >> reporter: that's a really big departure from what we used to see from trump on the trail.
his crowd began booing. that's something that we expect to see. his reaction is definitely something that's new in terms of what we have seen previously on the campaign trail. michelle obama is someone he lashed out before. she was a top surrogate for hillary clinton, often coming up with things that trump would respond to. but it seems this is a new leaf being turned over by the president-elect in terms of how he is reacting to the veiled criticisms from first lady. of course, it wasn't completely devoid of the old flourish. we saw him give his own personal flourish about the people who he thinks stood in his way, the media included. it was typical in terms of that. this latest comment making news in terms of what we could be seeing from a new, more presidential possibly donald trump. >> we will see if that's the side the leaf will continue. thank you very much. joining me now is robert acosta who is an msnbc analyst.
i want to get your reaction trump's incoming chief of staff, talking about when his boss would accept the intel community's assessment. >> i think he would accept the conclusion if these intelligence professionals would get together, put out a report, show the american people that they are actually on the same page as opposed to third parties through "the washington post" -- we haven't heard from comey. so i think that these guys should be straight with the american people and come out and say it. i don't think they have been clear about it. i think it's been all over the map. >> is that a realistic assessment? you have people like senator graham and mccain saying russians were involved and we don't need to see more. >> there's a new fault line in the republican party. it's how you laid out these two bits of news. on capitol hill, senators like graham and mccain, they are trying to pursue a select
committee. leader mcconnell, the majority leader he is wary of doing a select committee. he would like a appropriatprobe investigation. there's a new con says su conse interested in moving in. >> is this moving on in terms of how we interpret the silence? u.s. foreign relations taking a front row. we didn't hear a mention, other than tweets on china and the drone saying they should keep it. should we be hearing more? >> perhaps. what this investigation among republicans especially is going to be led on capitol hill, it will be a specter of sorts when trump becomes president of the united states early next year. congressional republicans have a different view of russia. trump's foreign policy is being guided right now by general flynn, the retired general who will be his national security adviser who takes a similar view on russia as the
president-elect, not as hostile, more open to having conversations. >> we have donald trump at this last thank you tour rally. couldn't that have been the perfect venue for him to make that address, to address it even in the slightest way? >> i'm not here to judge how he writes his speeches. i would say the thank you tour has been in particular about congratulating his campaign, congratulating himself, going to state ez has ws he won. he's not been extending his hand to states that voted against him. this was about rousing trump's base, getting the conservatives with him as he starts his presidency. >> wouldn't that be a missed opportunity is my question for him to take advantage of that full on? >> it seems like president-elect trump's foreign policy is still developing. he has been very resistant to the idea publically and privately from what i'm told about this idea of russian hacking. he made that clear. he is at odds with congressional
republicans. i think we can attribute based on my reporting the silence to the fact he doesn't want to get too far away from his own party. >> i want to talk about especially when it comes to the poll. when it comes to russia, according to this poll that came out, 55% say that they are bothered by russia's meddling in the u.s. election and 37% believe it helped trump win. any sense this attitude could undercut the incoming president's authority when he is there in the oval office? >> the issue of russian hacking of trump's warmth in a sense towards vladimir putin the russian president, it's something that will continue to be an issue because of how it's being handled on capitol hill. trump has not yet picked an ambassador to russia. rex tillerson, the nominee for secretary of state, he is someone who has been against keeping the sanctions against russia. so we will see how tillerson responds. i think how tillerson, should he be confirmed, actions with russia will tell us whereat as
>> when you look at the numbers coming out, 50% of americans say that they approve of the way president-elect trump is handling the transition into the oval office. look at the comparison. significantly lower than president obama and president clinton when they first made the transition. should that be a concern to the trump camp? >> perhaps. russia is a complicated issue. it will be intriguing to see how the president-elect discusses issues like human rights in russia. beyond just the hacking issue and putin's involvement in the u.s. election, there are issues about how russia interacts with assad, in syria are human rights in his own country that we have not seen the president-elect articulate himself on in the past few months. there's going to be a demand to have an nal sanalysis of russiaa
world world. >> when it comes to donald trump's reaction to michelle obama and hess interer interesv hope. he countered her remarks by saying she had to have meant this in the past. then almost praised her by defending her. who was that? >> the typical reaction of president-elect trump has been always to react fiercely to critics, whether it's with a tweet or something else. this is different. trump has been built a rapport with the president, president obama. he has appreciated the cordial way he has been welcomed at the white house. he has been able to have private conversations with the president. he also saw his friends tell me in the press conference late last week that the president was talking about the institutions of democracy, keeping the transition running smoothly. trump as a businessman has an instinct that he does not need to be at war with president obama. >> interesting on how he puts it
in this case with the first lady as well. i want to talk about tomorrow and the electoral college that's scheduled. it's going to happen. normally, wouldn't be making news. you have "the washington post" reports on intense campaigning. then there's the common belief this is -- it's not going to change anything, likely couldn't happen. what's the point? >> the point is we do have a system where if 30 to 40 electors change, that they could change the course of the presidency. they could go against donald trump. but a lot of these people who run are part of the electoral college are die hard republicans. it's almost as if you are running for an office in some sense. they are party people. the idea that celebrity sug suggestions and campaigns by certain democrats could convince republican electors to switch, especially as they tag it to something like the russian hacking story, it doesn't seem
to have much legs at this point based on my reporting. it's always up to the electie e but it doesn't seem like it's going to tip. >> as always, great to have you with me. thank you. happening now, frigid temperatures across the midwest creating dangerous conditions on this sunday. the national weather service issued windchill advisory and warnings for counties throughout the midwest. 13 deaths have been reported in seven states across the nation because of the weather. blake mccoy is in chicago which may hit a record low temperature today. i know we checked in with you a couple hours ago. is it any better at all where you are? >> you know, it's deceiving. you think with the sun out that it would have warmed up. the temperature keeps going down as the day continues. to answer your question, no, it's not warmed up at all. let's put up temperatures on the screen for you. it's 6 degrees here in chicago. when you add windchill, it feels like minus 10. madison, wisconsin, minus 5, actual air temperature, feels
like minus 19. the coldest major city in the country today, it has been all week, minneapolis, minus 13 actual air temperature, feels like 28 below zero. we are breaking december cold records in a lot of places with this weather. right now, we're outside of the soldier field here in chicago. this is where the bears are set to play in about an hour. it's going to be potentially their coldest home game ever. 2 degrees was the coldest ever played here. it's 6 right now. we will see if we get down to 2 by game time. whether or not we break that record, it's going to be a miserable day. they are warning people to layer up before they come out here. bring blankets. we're going to play the what are you thinking game coming up in our next hour. you will hear from some of the folks who decided to come to the game. >> i'm sure a lot are hard core fans. still to come, where is the proof?
i'm very proud of him. male vo: comcast. i think that putin saw the united states withdrawing from around the world. i think there's actually -- the problem has been that president obama's actions often have not matched his rhetoric. his rhetoric has often been pretty tough. but then there's been no follow-up and no action. i think it sent a signal that the u.s. was in retreat. >> that was former defense secretary robert gates on meet the press a short time ago. i want to bring in congressman castro. thank you for your time on this sunday morning.
i want to ask you -- we just heard right there, does secretary gates have a point? did president obama through his foreign policy set the stage for russia's interference in the election? >> no, i don't think so. russia has been doing this with other nations for a while. that interview with bob gates, although i respect him a lot, was confusing. he talked about the president's foreign policy and him not following through on his rhetoric. but then at the same time, he praised the president for disengaging us from prior wars. it seemed to be -- he seemed to be speaking a bit confusingly on that issue. >> you have president obama who said the told vladimir putin to cut it out when they met back in september. was that enough? should the president have acted more aggressively even before the election? >> well, i think the president was trying to make sure that he didn't tip the scales in the election. he said that very publically. he is trying not to get into a
full-fledged big fight with russia. it's clear that they have been very aggressive. the intelligence agencies and the sitting president have now said that they had a role in effecting the outcome of our election. i think it's going to be important that we get to the bottom of this specific question in addition to russia's involvement, did russia or the russians who were responsible for this cooperate with anyone in donald trump's presidential campaign on this hacking? >> i specifically want to address that and ask you about it. in this instance, you have the chief of staff, priebus, who asked about those suggestions, the thing you are speaking to, that they may have been in with russia to disrupt the election. here is what he had to say. >> of course, we didn't interface with the russians. this whole thing is a spin job. i think what the democrats ought to do is look in the mirror and face the reality that they lost the election and they lost the election because they are so and completely out of touch with the
american people that they are still shell shocked and they can't believe it. what is their response? recounts, russians, leaked cia reports. >> what is your response? is the story an overreaction from your party? >> well, the first thing is that of course democrats realize we lost the election. we realize that we have to regroup and assess what happened. we have to come back stronger next time and have a strong message for improving the lives of the american people. that said, those comments don't wipe away the fact that our intelligence agencies have determined that russia tried to tip the election in favor of donald trump. it's gotten bizarre how president-elect trump and now reince priebus and other surrogates are trying to completely deny what our intelligence agencies and the sitting president have said are fact. it makes me wonder quite honestly whether russia doesn't have some leverage over the president-elect. >> the next question there is
proof, if that's the case, then what should that proof be? what proof should they put out there? >> that's a fair question. the first thing is that i think some of that will come in the report to president obama. now, i know that as much of that is declassified so the american public can see it. americans deserve to see it. the second thing as the president mentioned before is that it's also hard to do some of that to reveal some that was because you would have to reveal sources and methods. when you do that, essentially the hackers would figure out how you are catching them. not just those hackers but others. that will compromise our ability to go after other people in the future. >> asking for more information is one thing that's being asked for tomorrow in the meeting of the electors who are going to cast their ballots. you have a number asking for a full briefing on russia's actions before they do that. is that something they deserve? is it fair to ask them to finalize the election if they don't have all the information? >> you know, that is a tough question for the intelligence
community, because these are very sensitive topics. listen, this is the biggest deal that could yyou could possibly a foreign power interfering with who we choose as president. i wish they had been able to get some briefing directly related to russia's involvement and more specifically and more importantly whether there was any cooperation between russia and the donald trump campaign. >> let me ask you this about a relationship with russia and hostility that we have seen in the past. donald trump has taken heat for his apparent friendliness towards putin. is there any part here that could be beneficial to have a president who isn't outright hostile? couldn't it help the united states in strengthening a relationship with russia? >> you know, after the fall of the soviet union, the united states spent a lot of time trying to engage russia and have it be part of the nations of the world. there's no question that it's
important to have some diplomatic relation with russia because, for example, they are part of the u.n. security council. you need their cooperation when you sanction north korea or iran or take on other challenges in the world. they have shown themselves to be aggressive on other things and acting against u.s. interest. they have innovated two sovereign countries in the last decade. there's got to be a way for the united states to stand up to russia and show them that these things are not acceptable. >> let me ask you this. go ahead. >> simply having favor to them and bowing down to vladimir putin, treats him like he is your best friend, even though he is invading countries, he has been part of this slaughter that's going on in syria, particularly over last few weeks, we shouldn't have an american president who is doing that. >> i want to ask you when it comes to this that was making some headlines this morning, chuck todd asked the clinton campaign, john podesta, if he
believes the elections were free and fair. there wasn't a direct answer. is it fair for the clinton camp to question the election results when that's what she criticized donald trump for? >> sure i think hillary clinton, she ran a tough and hard campaign for president. she's a former secretary of state, former first lady and a respectable person. she's entitled to her opinion and her assessment about the election. >> all right. thank you, representative, castro, i appreciate your time being with me. thank you. attorney general loretta lynch and what she said about her much criticized meeting on the tarmac with former president bill clinton. hear from her later this hour.
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here you go.picking up for kyle. you wouldn't put up with part of a pizza. um. something wrong? so when it comes to pain relievers, why put up with just part of a day? you want the whole thing? yes, yes! live whole. not part. aleve. the intelligence community standing by claiming russia h k hacked. i will ask one expert about that next.
the work that we do helps us protect it. public education is definitely a big part of our job, to teach our customers about the best type of trees to plant around the power lines. we want to keep the power on for our customers. we want to keep our community safe. this is our community, this is where we live. we need to make sure that we have a beautiful place for our children to live. together, we're building a better california. welcome back.
at the half hour, we're monitoring a situation out of syria. thousands are expected to evacuate aleppo today. this comes after a new deal was struck between the government and rebels yesterday. at this point, there's no sign of any movement. we will keep an eye on the situation and bring you any updates whether they become available. new reaction today surrounding china's seizure of a u.s. drone in international waters. john mccain went after the obama administration saying foreign countries are taking advantage of the u.s.' weakness. >> maybe they saw the success that the iranians had after they captured it two american vessels and put american sailors on their knees and then when they were returned, the secretary of state thanked them for that. look, there's no strength on the part of the united states of america. everybody is taking advantage of it.
hopefully, that will change soon. >> nbc's steve patterson is in honolulu where president obama is spending his family vacation. any reaction? >> reporter: in the days following this as this becomes more and more of a distant memory, a lot of people might see this as a footnote in the waning days of a lame duck administration, a parting shot from china towards president obama as he prepares to leave office. what is probably the most important bilateral relationship in the world, there are hugh ramifications for national security, for the global economy and for geopolitics. that's what the president was trying to get across in his final remarks, the last press conference of the year before he took his family -- hopped on a plane and came here for the last vacation as the first family. he was answering a question from a reporter about the
relationship of the u.s. in china in light of this latest incident. he basically said he has been advising the trump administration, the incoming administration on incidents like this because they do happen. because this may not be so unprecedented. if you remember, it was just 77 days after george w. bush took office that a chinese warplane slammed into a u.s. surveillance plane. it was 44 days after president obama took office that chinese vessels surrounded a u.s. naval vessel. incidents like these do happen. they say the obama's response is traditional, of a diplomatic swift resolution. that did happen in this instance. they are waiting for a time and place and a solution to when that drone will be returned. an exchange has been made and agreed upon. that will happen. back to you. >> we will see what happens.
steve, thank you very much. by the way, blake mccoy is watching his negative windchill temperatures in chicago. if you want to rub that in. thank you. turns to the hacking. russia denies it interferes. donald trump has pushed back against the hacking claims. a question raised to the ranking member of the house intelligence committee was a simple one. where is the proof? >> i totally understand you don't want to have sources and methods out there. but can't you give the public something more substantial than what we have seen? >> well, yes. i think the administration will. i think they should. i have been urging them to do that. the principal reason why they haven't is exactly the one you mention. that is, we have good sources of information. we don't want to disclose those. i'm sure the russians would love to know the source of information so they can take countermeasures to prevent us from being able to attribute other russian malignant cyber
activity in the future. >> joining me is tara mallor. she's a former cia military analyst. thank you for being with me. we heard from adam schiff and his answer. why haven't we heard about any evidence in this? >> sure. we have heard a bit of evidence. we're not going to hear the detailed specifics in terms of the classified sources and methods to obtain the information. we heard about forensics, that the ip address, that it linked out to, was a known address that has been used previously. it was traced back to equipment in russia. there's been some of that on the forensic siede. how they know putin and other senior officials knew about it, we're most likely not going to see that evidence. the intelligence community has reasoned not to reveal that because it's useful for future intelligence collection. >> i was talking about that
earlier. i spoke with congressman castro, a member of the house intelligence committee who echoed this. we will talk about it after we hear from him. >> you have to reveal sources and methods. when you do that, the hackers would figure out how you are catching them. not just those hackers but others. that will compromise our ability to go after our people in the future. >> how much would that compromise be? >> sure. well, there are a number of ways information could have been obtained. i don't have access to classified information. but i can tell you, there's different types of intelligence. there's human, a source that was able to give our intelligence agencies this information. there could have been a cooperating intelligence agency who received the information from a source or the united states. it could have been signals intelligence or intercepted in some way. there's a variety of ways this could have been obtained. if you disclose the way it was obtained, you are going to shut off that channel by which you are receiving information. you will compromise the value of that source going forward.
also, it's probably better that we let the russians wonder how we got this information. that's probably a bit more worrisome for them. >> as far as the american public and people that want the proof in some form, what is this evidence, what does it consist of, is there anything more, just anything, a little tidbit the intelligence community could provide us with, not necessarily blowing else with the investigations down the road with other hackers? >> on the forensic side, you might see more details come out. with the report that president obama has ordered, you could see a classified version of a more public report that goes to members of congress, for example. if that -- the members of congress, those on the intelligence committee, for example, republicans and dp democrats, see that and speak to it about the validity of it and it's bipartisan in nature and they are viewing that, that might be one way the public's confidence can rise up, the public being able to see the information. >> on friday, president obama vowed to retaliate for the hacking. what tangibly could the united
states do? >> sure. there are a number of things the united states can do in the cyber realm and beyond. the united states can engage in its own sort of cyber hack t. couit could release embarrassing information about putin or other high level officials. it doesn't want to escalate this. that's something to be worried about. it could do something privately that we don't know they do. it could be more publically. it could do additional sanctions on russia. that is something the president is going to have to weigh. it's the closing daze e ining d administration. it's up to president trump to respond if additional response is necessary and depending on his view on russia cyber hacking. we may see a different response from him. >> can you see that happening, that the united states retaliating by doing its own -- coming out with its own information, something that would be embarrassing or hurtful to vladimir putin? >> i do think we can see the united states retaliate in some way.
the obama administration has been very cautious in its rhetoric about the response. you don't want this to escalate so we face another cyberattack that goes beyond what was done. i think you could see something that we call a proportionary response. it might not be clearly attributable to the united states. part of a successful cyberattack is not knowing if and when and where it's going to be seen. it remains if we will sit here and chat about it or if perhaps the russians will see something on their end that we may not be privy to. >> you will know. you will get a call from us to talk about it. i appreciate it. fascinating insight, thank you so much. >> thanks for having me. what loretta lynch says she regrets doing during the presidential campaign and how it may have hurt hillary clinton's chances of winning. in the next hour, mitt romney talks about being courted by donald trump. [ cough ]
what would you like to see the electors do? >> i think that's a judgment for them. i think we haven't tried to influence what electors would do. the question is whether there are 37 republican electors who think that either they are open questions or that donald trump based on everything we know about him is really unfit to be president of the united states. if they do, then they will throw it to the house of representatives. >> that was former clinton campaign chairman john podesta looking ahead to tomorrow's electoral college meeting which could finalize the election. i want to bring in howard dean, former dnc chair and an msnbc contributor and susan delpersio. to both of you, welcome. i start with you, howard. i want to ask you, in a way we heard from john podesta, is he questioning the legitimatesy of the election here? you have hillary clinton who criticized donald trump as threatening our democracy when he said he would think about
contesting election results. now he is talking about this. >> first of all, this is part of our democracy. everybody likes democracy until there's something about it they don't like. democrats have complained about the electoral college because we won the popular vote by 3 million votes or something like that. republicans are claiming -- trump is claiming he had a huge landslide. the way the electoral college works is they can overturn the vote of the public if they want to. it's part of the deal. so i think -- i don't think they will. but that's part of how the democracy works. >> susan, you have these remarks as an effort to delegitimatize the trump presidency. could they undermine his ability to govern? >> i don't think at the end it will. the next 24 hours we will hear a lot about it. the electoral college will vote tomorrow. donald trump will be confirmed as president-elect and the next president of the united states come january 20th.
what's interesting is that podesta is still fighting this campaign. he is still on the -- in campaign mode. he refuses to recognize that there were things that went wrong for democrats this last go around. until he starts earning up to that fact, the democrats will continue to have a problem. >> howard, i want to give you a response to that. do you see that as the case? is john podesta in campaign mode? >> i don't think so at all. i think they are avoiding relitigating the campaign. i think that -- we would like the truth. there's a lot of intelligence information about what the russians knew, what they did and how much trump was talking to the russians while this was going on. that's a fact. that's not conjecture. despite trump's midnight tweets and all that stuff. the only way i know how to resolve is this to go through the process to the end. the process to the end is, the electoral college votes tomorrow. i suspect they will confirm the election of donald trump. if they don't, then the next part of the process is that they
go to the congress. that's all prescribed in law. the one case was actually worse than this was the 2000 decision to make george bush president. that was not prescribed in law. the supreme court actually put a halt to the vote count, which i think was a terrible invasion of the process. but this process is moving. it's ugly. the election was ugly. there's two more steps to go. we're going to find out -- there's one more step to go if they do what susan and i think they will do, which is confirm donald trump as president tomorrow. >> you have the electors that have asked for a briefing when it comes to russia's involvement in the election, should they get one? >> no. they shouldn't. it's been determined. by lots of different folks within the federal government. they are not entitled to one. these folks -- one thing -- governor dean does bring up a point. this is the last step. my concern is how we go around these steps.
for example, there's a woman in kentucky who has been called out by several in hollywood that she should vote her conscience. i don't think this kind of bullying to members of the electioral college is correct. going forward, somehow this country has to come together and at least recognize that donald trump is going to be the next president of the united states. >> i want to turn it back to russia, especially after we heard from robert gates who was on "meet the press" this morning. here is his take on the election interference from russia. let's listen. >> do you think there's been enough of a sense of urgency about this from the obama administration, from congressional leaders, democratic and republican, from donald trump? >> no. i think that given the unprecedented nature of it and the magnitude of the effort, i think people seem to have been somewhat laid back about it. >> howard, do you agree with
that? we heard from the president saying vladimir putin should cut it out. does he need to step up more reaction here? >> well, look, this is -- all this is put on hold. we have had an election that's ugly. everybody is sick of it. none of these things has any traction now. they will later. when trump takes office, which i think smoemost likely outcome oe next two steps, then eventually he is going to get into trouble in congress. every president does. when he does, that's when the russian stuff will come to a head. >> even for the president now, even for the current president in his last weeks in office, and in -- we heard from him saying, vladimir putin cut it out. should there have been more of a statement or something a little bit more aggressive on his part? >> that's a hard one to answer. this is like the comey situation where what he said impacted the election.
but i don't think comey was trying to be partisan. i think obama didn't want to appear to be partisan. would t would have been better if he said something. it's a really tough call. >> susan, very quickly, should donald trump -- should he have said something about it? we hear him tweet about china. >> absolutely. we don't want any country, including russia, hacking into our political system, our government, our businesses. in that narrow scope, donald trump should absolutely, as should the president of the united states, come out strongly against russia. >> i want to ask you both, this morning loretta lynch reflected on her meeting with former president bill clinton. here is what she had to say. >> i wish i had seen around that corner and not had that discussion with the former president as innocuous as it was. it did give people concern. it did make people wonder. is it going to affect the investigation that's going on? that's not something that was an unreasonable question for anyone to ask. >> did that meeting hurt hillary
clinton, howard? >> i think it did. not because -- i don't think people -- people thought it was unseemly. the problem is it removed loretta lynch from doing the job she needed to do. it was not up to jim comey to say whether clinton should have been prosecuted or not for the e-mails. it was up to loretta lynch to say t. she couldn't say it because of the meeting. i do think it hurt. she's above suspicion except for the right wing nut cases. it gave the appearance that prevented her from doing her job later on. >> i agree with that. except for one other thing. i think it did play into the narrative of the clinton narrative as far as people didn't support her. >> i think that's right. >> since you are both agreeing, we will leave it after that. thank you. have a great rest of your sunday. the intense xacampaign to change the vote. hear from an expert who tells us
tomorrow when we vote in the electoral college, i will be putting forward a motion to in fact call for a bipartisan independent commission to investigate russian interference. the vote will proceed. i fully expect that donald trump will be formally elected as president tomorrow. >> that was clay pell, a democrat from rhode island talking about his expectations for tomorrow's vote. the final word in the 2016 presidential race. joining me now is a law professor and an expert in election law. thank you for being with me. as we heard from clay pell, he said what he will do is ask for this motion for a bipartisan investigation and then the votes will be -- will proceed forward. can he ask for that mention as far as a bipartisan investigation? >> i suspect he can ask for it. it's never happened before as
far as i know. this has been a year of very unusual developments. so i think he should certainly feel free to ask. >> what do you expect will happen tomorrow? how does this normally work? what could happen? >> normally, the electiors meet in the state capitols. there is no one giant gathering. they actually meet in their home states, usually in the capital. they cast their votes. sometimes it may be known in some states how they vote and sometimes it gets -- it's a sealed envelope. some state official checks it out and sends it on to washington. >> then you have in this case the pressure to convince pro-trump electors to vote against donald trump tomorrow. in your opinion, what is the likelihood of that happening? >> it's hard -- it's impossible to say. in half the elections we have had one, sometimes a little bit more than one elector will vote in a way that was not predicted, not for the person whom they pledged. it's very unusual.
the ele electors are elected officials who are quite loyal to their party. it would be -- it's very unusual for electioors to not vote the y they're supposed to. we have had announcements of one or two saying they are not going to say -- the way they are pledged to vote. but it's very, very, very unusual for more than that. >> what would you have to say when we heard from clay pell asking for this motion for an investigation but he expects donald trump to win? what is the point? >> that's a good question. in some ways he is taking advantage of the original idea of the electoral college which was that the very original idea was they were supposed to be prominent people from the states who had judgment, who would deliberate and who would make a decision. so i think he is taking advantage of the platform he has as an elector, as the person who is the official vote for his state to say, we want this investigation. >> let's talk about this.
has there been any presidents with efforts like this? >> it's not really, no. the electoral college has, as you say, been largely procedural almost since the beginning. it was designed to be something where there would be deliberation and debate. as soon as we developed a party system, it became an instrument of the parties and a reflection of the votes in the home states. >> given that, what happens if donald trump doesn't reach 270? >> it goes to the house of representatives. >> then what? >> then the house -- the states vote state by state. one vote per state. that has happened twice in our history. currently the incoming house will have republicans in majorities in more than half the states. the odds are the republicans will pick the next president.
they would do it in the house voting state by state. >> you are an expert in election law. what's your reflection on this? now it's making news and we're talking about it. >> i think we have the tension between our 18th century constitution and our 21st century democracy. the constitution was written with one set of expectations. we have developed a different set of practices. every now and then the constitution as written is put side by side with the practices we have. they don't fit together very well. >> we kind of -- the play book was thrown out for the campaign, the election and maybe the electoral college. >> exactly. >> thank you so much. >> my pleasure. if russia behind hacking in the united states election, how did they do it? i will talk to a man who was a notorious hacker and is now a computer security expert. meansg tough choices. jim! you're in! but when you have high blood pressure and need cold medicine that works fast, the choice is simple. coricidin hbp is the only brand