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tv   Hardball With Chris Matthews  MSNBC  November 7, 2017 4:00pm-5:00pm PST

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australian him tr strange trip. thank you for the memories. if you want to neck check us out on facebook or twitter, you can check out "the beat" with ari or the results in this big night of election races, which will be comfort continuously. "hardball" starts now. virginia is for lovers of those old confederate statues. let's play "hardball." good evening. that's right, virginia voted today. early exit polls show three out of five voters want the confederate shach chews which have been at the heart of the governor's race left standing. all eyes are on that marquee for governor down there between republican ed dplespy and democrat ralph northam. the lt. gov.
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nbc news characterizing that race for governor as too early to call with the polls closed. democrats are bracing themselves for a comforting victory, where, of course, another devastating defeat. recent polling has shown northam with a slight edge but within the margin of error. gillespie, an aid to george b. push, is trying to help his establishment bonifides. if he wins, he can provide fellow republicans how to campaign in theably of trump. let's get the very latest from the race from our own steve kornacki. steve what do we know? >> well, it was 7:00. the polls closed in new jersey. we were an hour away. as you just showed. we have no actual votes in just yet. what can we show you from the exit polls? let's look at a few of the key questions, we can tackle there. first of all, see if we can call up the areas. okay. >> that should call it up. here we go, the trump factors,
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starting in virginia, the president, his approval rating, clocks in at 43%, by comparison, last time they had a governor's race in virginia, four years ago, barack obama was the president, his party's candidate did win, very close race. his number was 46 on election day, trump's today coming in at 43 in this exit poll. also, new jersey, can you see a blue state, not surprisingly 32% is the trump approval rating. keep your eye on this, more significant in this new jersey race, how about chris christie, throughout as time as to have, he peaked at 77% back during hurricane sandy, all way down in the exit poll, a 19% approval rating for chris christie as his lt. gov. tries to succeed him there, back to virginia, obviously the marquee race, something else we can tell you. the story last year in the election of donald trump was that social class split among white college white non-college voters. what share of the elect terror
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rat are we talking about here? in this exit poll the data we have right now, 43% of the voters in virginia, white college grads, 26% white noncollege. you could see that would be if that holds. we'll see if the more numbers comes in, that will be an uptick from 2016. that's something democrats wanted to see and you mentioned it to this question here, ed gillespie, he ran on these trump cultural issues. the question here, confederate monuments on government property, should they be removed? only 26% of virginians in the exit polls say yes. left in place. 60% said leave them be. so that one will get certainly plenty of attention, that was an issue ed gillespie ran on, chris. >> thank you very much. can i go back to you throughout the evening? anyway the governor's race isn't the only interesting one to watch. all seats in virginia's house of delegates are up for grabs there. nbc news reports, quote, if
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democrats surprise and gain ten or more seats in the house of delegates, it would be a seen they are on track to take back the house of the u.s. representatives, i a joined by jeff spa pirro, columnists for the "new york times". what do you smell out there tonight in terms of how this race is going to speak to the country? >> you know, the fundamentals in virginia have always favored the democrats. the outside world, this may seem a southern state. but it is a suburban dominated state in which the majority of people who live here are from somewhere else. whether it's out of state or overseas. this has had a moderating effect on the state's politics and that's particularly evident in higher turnout elections. this is why trump didn't win virginia in 2016 and it looks like, excuse me, it looks like ralph northam will win it for
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governor. >> let me ask you about trump, how's he do? is it that thing you get more trump, like the oliver north, we knew the further you got from d.c. the signs would be on the lawns. it was simple. its not the same with trump. >> two-thirds of people in virginia live in cities and suburbs. it's in those cities and suburbs the enmity for the president is greatest. maybe it's an accident of geography, virginia is across the frifr you all in washington. there is not much that donald trump said or done hasn't had an immediate and measured effect on suburban virginia. whether it was the perceived muslim ban, the freeze on federal employment. and the threatened shutdown of the federal government. the president's gambit to squeeze money for the democrats for the wall on the border with mexico. >> let's talk about the house of delegates, the lower house down there in virginia. do you think that will give us a reason for the democrats to pick
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up the u.s. house next november? >> it's tricky, mr. matthews. the legislature in virginia when controlled by the democrats and now controlled by the republicans has elevated to a high art, hyper partisan mandering, that goes a long way to protecting incumbents. >> that said, there is 54 of 66 republican seats contested and in northern virginia, where the turnouts are running higher, it's possible, underscore that, possible, that there could be a wave effect and some of these republican incumbents in these fast growing increasingly diverse outer suburbs of d.c. could be in trouble. >> yeah. let's get one thing straight, jeff, you are the sophisticated gentleman with the bow tie, i'm not mr. matthews, i'm chris matthews. thank you for your dignitary. i was impressed by your sophistication and nuance, thank you so much, jeff shapiro, you
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haven't heard that stuff lately. in the closing race the polls have tightened, average has northam up by three. i think that's the margin of error. a month ago a six-point lead, it's closed a little. not enough, i don't think, for gles by. hillary clinton boat him five points around last year. it was the only southern state that donald trump didn't win. for more on how democrats are feeling about this race and their party, i am joined by democratic national committee chairman tom perez, do you know you have the power to get rid of a presidential nominee when you feel like this? i heard this from donna brazile the other day. >> i didn't realize that. >> i love donna, i didn't know she was that powerful. >> i better not catch a cold next week or someone might do this to me. >> let me ask you, virginia is not the old confederacy, the old dominion anywhere. it's got a lot of northerners out down there almost all pro
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choice and they're sensitive about it. you have african-americans voting in big numbers now. is that still a state that you guys own? >> well, virginia is a purple state. no doubt about it. that's why this election will be close. virginia is and 66 republicans in the house of delegates. we're changing that, that was a hyper jerry mannederer. one thing mr. sha pier rocks i will call you mr. matthews tonight. >> please. >> one thing that is so important about this is i think those down ballot races, i spoke to -- >> so you buy this as a leading indicator of what your party can do next november few pick up ten seats or so in the assembly there and the house of delegates in that's a good sign? >> i think it's a good sign. we'll see what happens tonight. i met with most if not all of the challengers, in the last three or four cycles, chris, democrats only contested 45 or so seats. so we see the other 50, 55.
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we have 88 candidates this time. they are spectacular candidates. and they're going to drive turnout in their districts. >> they're obviously not financial to win 88 seats, when you if et the people to vote. >> when hillary clinton won last year, you have a republican incumbent. they must be your happy hunting ground. you like them. >> we need 17 of them and 17 seats to flip the dell gather. that's a tall order. >> will you get 17? >> i think that's a tall order tonight. i think the last time that democrats won both new jersey and virginia governors races was 2005. we know what happened in 2006. and the reason we're winning is because i spent a lot of time in both states, people are talking about health care. they see what donald trump is doing. >> that i have lfd ones with an opioid addiction issue. they're seeing this president take away their access. in virginia, they haven't expanded medicare. why? because the republican-dominated
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house and senate have said no people understand that. and virginia looks a lot like america, the diversity of america. >> we have exit polling saying health care is the number one issue in america. i have a problem. you argue about the republican tax bill, which i think should get near passed. but you don't offer an alternative to rebuild this country. why do democrats fear to talk about construction, jobs, good jobs, railways, fixing up the country and building a big intercontinental railroad system. doing something that catches up to the rest of the world? why do democrats support public enterprise? >> i do that all the time, it's about bold opportunities for every community for everyone. >> stop dithering what republicans are doing and outmatch them. >> thank you. >> he does not claim the right to remove the nominee for president. president trump has cast a long shadow over the race, despite having just a 41% approval rating in virginia, not so high.
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i think it went up today to 43 in the exits. from seoul, south korea, the president urged his supporters, from south korea, tweeting afl northam will allow crime to be rampant and he is weak on our vets and anti-second amendment and horrible in the virginia economy. vote ed dplespy from seoul, south korea, courtesy of the president. he kept him at arm's length, however, on the issues, will it be enough to win the governor's seat? for more i am joined by michael steele and msnbc political analyst. if donald trump is such a great president, why won't ed dplespy mention him, michael? you chuck him. look, it is a problem. if you loo tick buy the so much, you think he ought to get re-elected. renominated. >> that seems to be the impulse, why not show up with him? >> that's not necessarily reflected among candidates rung around the country or running in various races, they will be
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reflected in the people in their community. you got to be sensitive to where, you know, popular national figure or unpopular national figure stand in your state as well. so the focus i went through this in 2006 wearing the brand of a party not very popular with the american people, certainly not within my own state. but you still forge ahead, you make your case to those folks about the issues that they care about, which i think ed gillespie did masterfully. to the point -- >> michael, don't talk leak you are on the side lines, you are in there, fishing in troubled waters. i know what you are up to. you are trying to fet african-americans not to vote democrat, cutting from the ballot of a lt. gov.. >> that is not what i'm doing at all. i have not done that at all. anywith thaun says that are dead wrong. the fact of the matter is myself and j.c. wattts on this program last night made it clear the concerns that we raised was the way the democratic party and this democratic candidate
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tweeted the african-american candidate for lt. gov. and the type of leicester they put out that was two-faced. where he was on the leicester when it went to certain neighborhoods in the northern parts of virginia and it was off the 11 in other parts of virginia. so. >> you think he wasn't in goods and straights with the national labor unions? >> oh, chris, please, spare me, stop it. not in good straights with the unions, really? you tell me you think it's okay. chris. >> you say you aren't bothering the issue, you are here arguing the issue. which is snit. >> i'm saying the fact that you want to side step it. because you know daggone well if a republican put out two pamphlets one showing a plaque candidate, the other showing it off 2 pamphlet that you will be screaming to high heaven. will you not get away with it, playing this game. americans push back on it from i share such suspicions as those you just voiced. i just wanted to know whether you are in this fight or watching it. which is it?
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>> oh, i'm in the fight, absolutely. no doubt about it. >> that's what i want to know. are you making your points, thank you, michael steele as always, well done with some charm. we'll be tracking right away the returns all night long, nbc news is characterizing the race. the polls are closed. it's too early to call. we'll be back with the russian investigation. there is always some russian. there is a trump campaign foreign adviser. he says he coordinated with five campaign officials five of them before and after his trip to moscow after maintaining he made it as a private citizen and met with top citizens while there. the glue gets thicker and stronger. this is trump's long-time body guard as interviewed by the house intelligence committee. trump doesn't like that guy being interviewed. i can tell you, this is "hardball" where the action is.
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. >> worry getting word right now,
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president trump attempteden the p an attempt in the demilitarized zone, he was turned back not by military problems but bath bad weather. nbc news' kelly o'donnell joins us from seoul with the story. it looks like sunshine over there right now? >> reporter: well, there is heavy fog here, chris. in advance of this trip the white house says president trump would not go. vice president mike pence visited earlier in the administration, so this was an important and surprise development that has now fallen apart. the pool traveling with the president had this information and it was held for a period of time as they made an attempt with marine one to get to the demilitarized zone. they were turned back due to fog, restaged, tried to go again and determined what we call a weather call that they would not be able to make this trip. it would have been important especially because the layout at
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the roughly 150 smile strip between north korea and south korea is a place where, according to those other lawmakers who have visited and people like mike pence, you can look right into the eyes of north korean soldiers who are staged on the other side. there was an enormous uptick of security around president trump for this attempt that did not succeed due to weather. obviously the president had tried to make this a surprise, in part, because of the security threats that would be inher represent for this kind of a visit and leading up to this attempt, president trump had notably turned the volume down on his own rhetoric, not repeating some of his more belligerent provocative language that we have seen from him back in the united states. much more toned down while here in seoul. of course, seoul, itself, is only roughly 35 miles from the north korean border. so this was an attempt to make a surprise visit, which would have been an opportunity for the president to look right into north korea, a show of strength,
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perhaps, certainly an opportunity for him to get some perspective, but apparently, weather has foiled that attempt for president trump to be right on the boarder with north korea. chris? great reporting from kelly o'donnell in seoul, south korea the latest in the russian investigation and much more as we are starting to see very early results in the virginia governor's race. right now we're calling it too early to call. back after this.
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the newly released transcript of carter page's testimony before the house intelligence committee last week reveals more about the former campaign adviser's trip to moscow in july of 20 skep, right in the middle of the campaign. page said under oath that prior to making the trip, he informed five, that's five, campaign officials of his travel plans,
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including jeff sessions, the future ag and hopess to 'ing the white house communication director as well as then campaign manager cory lewandowski. while page said he traveled as a private citizen to give his speech at the university of moscow, an emeanwhile shows he tried to coordinate the details with the campaign. the transcript reveals after his event in moscow, page reported to campaign officials in an e-mail -- i'll send you guys a readout soon regarding some incredible insights and outreach i've received from a few russian legislators and senior administration here. page told the committee he did not recall about adding new language to the rnc platform open ukraine before the convention, an e-mail shows page congratulating his colleagues in the campaign after the change was made, kw0e9, as for the ukraine amendment, excellent work. i'm joined by ken delaney, with nbc news, shannon pettypiece and
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robert costa national political politico reporter and analyst, ken, it's great to have you on, can you give me a full picture now, take some time. what do we know of carter page's relationship with the trump campaign for months if not a year now, oh, he said i was a private citizen, a tourist, vis sarks acting like he had nothing to do with trump and his plan to become president and deal is with russia his way? >> reporter: that's right, chris, so i think his testimony moves the story forward in two important dimensions, one, we've confirmed once and for all he did meet with senior russian government and business officials after he suggested for a month, as you said, he did not. he met with a deputy prime minister. he met with the number two person at a major oil and gas company, this was a high level trip. while carter page may say he was taking it in a personal capacity, it seems fairly obvious the reason these important russians were meeting with carter page was because he
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was trump's foreign policy adviser. the second thing this testimony shows is that he coordinated this trip with the campaign. he sought permission from the senior campaign official, one told nbc news today he tried to block the trip. he didn't think it was a good idea for carter image to go, page went around him to other officials who green lighted it. lastly, we know he reported back about the success of the trip and the coordination and the conversations he had with these russian officials. he told the campaign about it. so if we believe and it seems fairly clear that carter panel was somebody that russians were trying to use to infiltrate the trump campaign, russians were trying to se dues, recruit, whaev verb you want to use, it's very clear seniors in the trump campaign were on notice this was going on. they either didn't understand it or disregard it. chris. >> thank you so much, ken. let me go to shannon right now about the implications, it seems to me, you are talking the question, i don't think it's a question anymore. the idea of collusion between the russians and the trump
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people, within they change the platform, dealing with ukraine to a pro russian position, good work, excellent work, it sounds to me like they're doing the work of a collusion. >> that is certainly how some people are interpreting all this. >> some don't interpret it that way. you are doing stuff and you are giving it credit to those who get it done for you. >> the story keeps changing, the meeting about adoption, that turned out to be a meeting about sanction, like carter page, who was supposed to be a list on a name and a name on a list of foreign policy advisers, then people forgot about him. then these contacts, george papadopoulos, i couldn't remember who that was. again all of these campaign contacts, we will find additional information about this campaign platform there robert, this whole problem is, this unpeeling of an onion, we keep unpeopleing it and unpeeling it. trump's position from the beginning has been there has
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been no russian attempt to intervene in our election. that's fallen away a long time ago. you can see the flirtation with sessions an carter page and all these guys. how does trump look with a straight face to somebody like you and stick to that original position, there was no relationship? >> we have been waiting so long, watching the special counsel, it's hard to speculate what bob mueller is up to. we are seeing action on capitol hill. you see in the congressional committees, publishing the transcripts with carter page. few look at that lest up on the screen the five people he was talking into inside the campaign the most important person, tomorrow jeff sessions. >> he says there was no relationship. >> he is coming to capitol hill to testify before the judiciary committee. democrats will have tough questions about the whole scope of that relationship with carter image. >> shouldn't none, it seems that was beautifully set up like bill clinton goes in for his grand jury testimony when you know what the situation is. you know there is a conflict between what he said before and
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he has to answer for. he gets into this language what do you mean is is, those things? nothing was reached to conclusion, but the way he was saying it before sessions was, we never met, it turns out we met, we met, there is no discussions about collusion. they did discuss what the russians wanted. >> a debate over what's a meet something well, i mean we met in passing. i don't necessarily call that a meeting. what's a meet something where, you know, we're getting down in the polls. >> we now know he admitted he was in a meeting, a shutoff with papadopoulos, close down his architect for a deal, another meeting. we know it all went on? how close are we getting to an argument here, there was collusion, robert? >> there was this outer rim of the campaign, it's arguable. >> trump had nothing to do with this? >> i'm not ready to say that at all. you look at sam clovis and george papadopoulos, inside the campaign, not talking to trump daily.
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they were still in the company, they were having all these meetings. what bob mule ever, who is the connection? who knew what? >> history lesson, ehrlichman, mitchell. all those guys went down been nixon went down. >> there is mon a for the and a flynn indictment and more on manafort. >> what do you know about the flynn indictment? squeeze him in the father to protect the son? what are they trying to do to the guy? it was done in the rosenberg case, we will go after the part you love. can you save that part. you can't save yourself so make the deal. >> we see mueller moving in a smart methodical way. that's what you see a seasoned prosecutor like this do. >> he's frightening, anywaif. thank you. we're still tracking, of course, we will going to do throughout virginia that hot governor's race. again, nbc news, this gets kind of dull, characterizing the governor's race, it's too early to call. it's only:30.
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it's too early. this is "hardball" where the action is.
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. >> back to "hard ball" polls in virginia are closed for a half hour now, we are watching the government's race, it's too early to call right now. we could have known that, this will be a close race. both ralph northam and ed gillespie face a set of
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democratic division, where political divisions are along the lines. in northern virginia, along with the rest of the country is not very southern, it's large populations from people all over the country and a democratic strong hold, largely i say because there are so many single women. in a turn for gillespie to win, he needs to offset that in the rural parts where people have southern accents in places like west virginia. for more let's check back with the experts, steve kornacki. tell me if i'm right or wrong. >> northern virginia is the place to look. that's where i want to dig deeper. we are starting to get numbers. gillespie is leading state wide, it tends to be northern virginia, the bulk comes in late. keep that in mind. let's focus on the counties a u.s. the washington, d.c., basically talking about sorry, i should get this pen selected, basically talking about, god, anyway, 25% or so of the votes come from those counties right outside washington, d.c. here's the thing to be looking at, when we showed you those exit polls earlier, we showed
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almost half the college educated white vote was going to northam, that's a very high number for a democrat to be getting and that immediately sets alarm bells off saying, boy, are the democrats doing even better than expected in these northern virginia suburbs. let me give you something if i can get this thing to work. it seems to have frozen, i'm going to give you the numbers, prince william county, we're starting to get some somebodys right here on the map, northern virginia, keep this in meempbin. in this county prince william he lost by only three points. his goal was to be competitive there tonight. not necessarily win. be competitive, last year this county swung hard against trump, trump lost it by 21. we don't have all the votes in right now. right now you have gillespie trailing by 29 points in the votes that have been counted so far, so the question here for gillespie was, could he bring it baaing to more of a 2014 level in northern virginia or was he
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become the to be stuck with the trump stigma early indications may be pointing in that direction. >> so he's getting what, gillespie is getting the trump vote? >> no, gillespie is getting the stigma in more than virginia. because he ran as that sort of bush-style republican in 2014. you couldn't win northern virginia. but he could keep the losses in check. >> getting the trump vote is not a food thing in virginia, anyway. that understand so much, i'm joined by a democratic strategist, author of "foxs in the hen house, how the republicans stole the south and the heartland" and what the democrats must do to run them out and also a democratic strategist. gentleman, let me get your two schools of thought on this, i was amazed over the last couple weeks, steve, that the dplespy who is all wrong for virginia, he's from catholic u up in washington. he grew up in new jersey, he's establishment.
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a life-long lobbyist, a part of the republican leadership in the rnc. there is nothing southern about him, really. he's up against the guy northam, whatever you say about him, has a nice southern accent and seems home grown, yet, these numbers come out close, what do you make, steve? make of it? >> well, i think a part of what you are seeing, chris, is the trump folks are fired up. they're going to turn out all the time. i don't see them going anywhere. they will keep turning out for republican. so gillespie has. that what you have seen gillespie try to do in virginia is try to moderate himself in many ways. not in all ways, obviously, the moving of the monuments, things like that play into that base. i think he is trying to have his cake and eat it too, a bit. ly keep that trump base, i will eat into northern virginia and hopefully keep the lieutenant governor down, win big enough in southwest or south side of virginia, where republicans traditionally have done well, you saw mark warner in '01 jim
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webb do well in southwest, the democrats have evened the score there a bit. gillespie's strategy is make myself look safe to enough voters and then rely on the base of the command without having to do too much to keep him? and he's made eight close race. >> well, let me ask the first question, steve, first to you, northam the democrating nominee and the democratic governor, was he woo iz to say, tear down the confederate statues? was he smart to do that politically? steve? >> i guess we'll find out shortly, right, chris. i think the polls in virginia, at least the ones i seen, most virginians say done tear them down. >> we have an exit poll, probably based on early voting today, the states say leave him alone, corn em, what is your thinking about this, politically? was eight smart move to challenge the old order that much? >> well, my thinking is, look,
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if that's what you believe, take the stand and fight for it. i think democrats have suffered far too long by being mealy mouth in having it both ways. >> is it something to die for? >> christie is not going to lose an election in virginia fighting for, you know, saying that, take down the confederate flag. this is a state that obama won back-to-back majorities, hillary clinton was not the best candidate in the world, carried four or five points. we had two democratic senators, in terry mcauliffe as governor, i don't think democrats stayed offensive in a state like virginia. if he believes we are taking down confederate monuments, he should fight for it and don't have it both ways. >> so is kornell. we have battlefields in virginia. lots of them the bum run, all kind of stuff out in virginia. much of the war was fought in virginia. should we take the confederate monuments off the battlefield, kornell? >> the truth of the matter is,
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the truth of the matter is, even most african voters when we did polling in virginia, they don't see us as the top issue concern for them, right? much more concern. >> i'm nailing you here, i want an answer, where do you stand? >> absolutely. let me be perfectly clear, i think they were traders to the united states of america, ha should come down. >> i think you are not running for office. when you run for office, let me know. >> that has a lot of nerve behind it keep the statues up or take them down? >> i respect the side that says that's a part of our history, i get it. we have history in museums. you can honor our history and still fought disparage what the south tried to do. the south tried to smr it the union. so i think the bigger issue, honestly, chris, is, democrats very often let these single polarizing issues define them. this race is not about that. republicans were voting against health care, against food stamps, voting against programs
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for education, for the kids, look at what trump is doing on education, there are republicans in congress who have done nothing, nothing, to put money in the pockets of working americans. what are you talking about? >> i will tell you, i think hollywood is guilty. hollywood starting in the 30s starting building up the old south, it never existed. it was all this what's her name, scarlet o'hara, the nonsense, the wonders and joys of the old south, they never showed the slaves being beaten, put in chains, you never saw a change in chains, the old white tyranny look good, anyway, it was awful. we were brought up with that propaganda, thank you,ion why we were. thank you, i'm closer to you than you think, corn em, up next, the "hardball" roundtable, including that race, i don't think it's much of a race for new jersey governor. i think christie stumping up that state.
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polls close in a half hour on is that one. you are watching "hardball."
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welcome back to "hardball." you continue to watch the governor's race, across the river from here, nbc news characterized two early to call, the polls closed at 7:00 eastern the other big race for governor tonight, not exactly a squeaker is in new jersey, where polls were closed at 8:00 eastern. i am joined by chief national correspondent for the boston globe and 55ia sloan is a reporter our own and david you were making a point before, that this republican candidate for governor in virginia, we're all watching, it's the marquee election, has not bought the the same cut of the jib as donald j. trump. >> no, he's a establishment republican, a former national committee chairman. he's a lobbyist. this was a party guy. >> he's also a northerner. >> he's from new jersey. but he also, you know, he tried
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to use the trump playbook late in the gym using cultural issue gls they'll them. >> confederate statues, saying they should be kept up. talking about gangs. >> ms-13. >> gangs. >> saying that the democratic candidate was against outlawing sank dhu area cities, voting negatively to make a point? right. >> also allowing fellens out, you know, out of prison. >> we are looking at it is not a call. in these experts of virginia that have educated me, it's not a surprise the republican has a load and we see a winner for an hour or two. there they always dos the raw vote. sense i watched the nixon-kennedy -- in the '60s, don't pay attention to the raw
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vote. we have to give you the news, vivian. >> so what we see in virginia, traditionally after a presidential election, they will often go for a party not in the white house, with the exception of mcauliffe's second term. >> like remorse. >> whatever you want to call it. >> that has been the pattern so far, so whether or not we will see that again, we don't know, but president obama had really kind of dominate and pushed that state into the blue area for a while and then obviously now, you know, president trump is trying to sway it back. whether or not he is successful or not, it depends. whether or not that's an indication of how he has been dock, it's too early to tell i think. >> in some states like massachusetts that when you vote for governor, you don't vote ideologically, in utah, for years, they elect a governor to balance things off, massachusetts, regular or every other time picks -- it's a liberal state. virginia is like that. they can pick republican governors. they did.
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>> you know, i do think you've got to say here, northam is not exactly the most dynamic candidate they engage christie in an argument. let's watch a portion of that action. >> it's easier to sit here and complain, it's easier. >> [ inaudible question ]. >> i'm sure, easier to sit here and complain, but you know what, that's the joy of public service, it's serving folks, it's serving folks like you that is really such a unique joy. it really s. >> why does he like to fight with anybody who wants to fight? >> this the a final bow. >> few want to fight, i'll fight with you.
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>> this the a guy with a what 15% approval rating in virginia t. guy never gave -- >> she wants to be a part of. that. >> she was the leiutenant, you know, he gave his lt. gov. no chance. >> why did she run? >> for lt. gov. she was next in lean to run. >> she got her head bashed in, gail force head storms. >> a superstorms, you might say. >> been there. >> it will be tough for her tonight. that's an easy win. >> i have been saying for the dems to win the senate. they need double digits in the national polls the way the jury mannedering, votes tend to be crowded in the big cities. they got it. they got the highest spread in recorded history practically right now. they can win the house back if things continue the way they're going. >> democrats managed to mess these moments up, you know, time and time again, they still need
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a message. >> look at that. >> he said, we got one? >> what is it? i know it. >> they have this problem again and again. i think they have got, the party has a lot of work to do if they want to. it's amess. >> they think it's a seasaw. if trump goes down, they go up. they think it's automatic. that's why they're planning so careful. >> the question is whether the democrats can rally behind a leader? the party is in disarray. well, exactly, is there someone that can really rally the troops and say, let's do this together? have a unified image to get the party together again after what happened last year? that's the big question going forward. >> we're not even there. >> not even close. >> there are so many fresh memp and sophomore, no one except joe biden. >> i would not overread the results of tonight to say it will mean anything of 2018, remember. >> you are telling people not to stay up tonight? >> no, i'm trying to stay up and
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watch all night. >> there is a seat there, it goes down into a dangerous hole in the ground. >> terry mcauliffe won the governorship in 2013 republican in the 2014 rallied. they had a great mid-term year. >> in all the papers across the country, top of the fold of the east coast, i do think it counts, i think the delegate races count a lot. if hillary is able to win, where she run for president? look out? she'll be talking it up in the globe vivian saw him. a pessimist about news value and the polls in new jersey will be closed at the top of the hour that's 8:00 p.m. eastern. we'll get the first look at who will succeed chris christie. that state cannot wait to succeed chris christie t. garden state. the vote keeps pouring in, in virginia, more than 30% in now. nbc says this race still too early to call. this is "hardball," where the action is.
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up next, take a look at the election that transformed american politics. my colleague lawrence owe don't believe is here with a look at his new book about the 1968 presidential election. as the returns continue tonight to come in for the virginia governor's race, we'll be cov covering them.
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one more look at virginia governor's race, steve kornacki
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joins us. >> we could tell you democrats are looking at what they're seeing right now, they are feeling very good. let me give you a microcosm of what it is. we talked about northern virginia. look, democrats always do well here in northern virginia. trump got absolutely buried. the challenge for gillespie come until was just don't get buried like trump did. here's a perfect example what was we're seeing in northern virginia. look at this, louden county what you see, the democrat winning by 20. what was the margin in this county last year? it was hillary clinton by 17 over donald trump. this is worse than trump. and by the way, when idaho gillespie ran in this county for the u.s. senate three years ago, he won it. he won by a few hundred votes. tonight he's losing by 20. he's losing it worse than trump. we are seeing this throughout northern virginia in the returns. the gillespie goal was, don't get buried like trump. he may get buried worse than trump. >> whoa. 1960 was a tumultuous year
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in american politics. in "playing with fire: the 1968 election" lawrence o'donnell writes the 1960s were a decade like no other, a high-speed kaleidoscope of the civil rights movement, assassinations, bob dylan, the vietnam war, hippies, and american's first anti-war movement. i'm joined by host of "the last word" on msnbc, it's an honor to have you on. bill clinton once said, if you like the '60s you're probably a democrat. if you hated the '60s, you're probably a republican. reflect on that, this is a big-picture book. >> sure, the '60s was probably the single most high-speed culture change, societal change, political change of the 20th century, by far it was. for example, chris, as you know, no guy's hair looked the same, no one at any age between 1960 and 1970. people thought differently. people who were segregationists in 1960 were not by 1970.
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and so what you saw was a kind of progress that some people wanted to hold back as they always do with this kind of progress. so the democrats were perceived as the party by the time you get to 1968 who were leading that kind of progress. as you know, chris, about of that, if someone told you they were republican, you didn't know if that person was a liberal or a conservative. >> true. >> if someone said they were a democrat, you didn't know if that person was a liberal or a segregationist. all that started to clarify and get locked in cement in 1968. so that now if you say you're a democrat, everyone thinks they know everything that you think about everything. >> how did we have such exciting prospects for '68 coming in with gene mccarthy in '67, bobby kennedy joined the fight, johnson quitting? how did we end up with two dull candidates like nixon and hubert humphrey? a downer at the end of the year? >> well, it's the assassination
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that put us on the -- the bobby kennedy assassination that put us on that inevitable road to hubert hum debris on the democrats' side. what that campaign began with was bravery, was a senator standing up and saying, i'm going to run against the president of my own party. that was something that was unheard of. and it was done by this obscure senator at the time, gene mccarthy. everyone was surprised when he did it. as you know, bobby kennedy thought about running before gene mccarthy announced. and bobby decided against it. then he was never comfortable with his decision, he kept going back and forth. gene mccarthy had some success in new hampshire. and chris, i was in high school. i thought gene mccarthy won new hampshire. and i thought that for decades after the fact. >> that's the way it played. >> because that's the way it played. turns out he came in a very strong second, as you know, bobby kennedy jumps into the race, lyndon johnson says, i quit. as you know, every single possible candidate in 1968, every one of them, was worried about one candidate. and that one candidate was bobby
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kennedy. nixon was afraid of him. lbj was afraid of him. gene mccarthy was afraid of him. everyone was. >> let's talk about the results. i voted for humphrey. but i thought i did so because of civil rights and because i thought ed muskie was one hell of a running mate. you probably did too. i thought nixon, tricky dickey, would get us out of the war, he'd say that's the democrat war, i'm getting out. yet he gets in there thanks to henry kissinger, prolongs it an entire term, half the americans killed in that war are killed after nixon comes to office. that was not what the voters voted for, they did not vote for nixon to keep that war going, they voted for him to say, i've got a secret plan to get out of this thing. >> exactly. he had that trump -- trump was saying last year, i'll beat isis, i can do this, the generals can't do it but i can, i know how to do it. he kept, of course that plan a secret because he didn't have one. nixon implied he had a secret plan to end that war, but he got obsessed with the same thing lbj
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was obsessed with, and eventually destroyed lbj, and that was, i don't want to be the first president to lose a war. nixon spent all that time trying to come up with an image that looked like he wasn't losing a war, which we did definitely lose. >> yeah, well said. well written, of course. law reference o'donnell, "plaing with fire: the 1968 election and the transformation of american politics." let me finish with this lure that lawrence reflect on this the late 1960s. this is not new to me. ever since live including that time i've felt the pull of a time when when was a zest in the air, an edge of excitement, especially late 1967 and 1968 when i marched to the pentagon, i war marched and watched the good fight as lawrence mentioned between bobby kennedy and eugene mccarthy. my chirp have picked up on this lore of the 1960s, asked me about it, how we lived it. the fun we had. the craziness of some of it. let's be honest, the music and the characters were the best
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ever. not just the tragic figures of our time. dr. martin luther king and the kennedy brothers. but bob dylan, great songs like "eve of destruction." now it's all coming closer again. not best of reasons, i think. people of all ages are feeling the pull of a time when leaders spoke of values, when people sat around and argued the great issues of war and peace, and the individual versus the nation. we look with envy at a time when people thought big and put their competing hope lts aside. well, tonight, today, we have a president who never speaks of right or wrong, who never cites a moral compass for himself or country are, acts as if the only thing that matters on this earth is the act itself, his act. that's "hardball" for now. "all in with chris hayes" starts right now. tonight on "all in." >> when you talk about innocent, i am truly not involved in any form of collusion with russia. >> the president's bodyguard grilled on the hill. >> i'm


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