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tv   Andrea Mitchell Reports  MSNBC  January 7, 2021 9:00am-10:00am PST

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how will the events of yesterday impact how the city is preparing for the inauguration? >> i can't speak to you with any specifics at this stage, michael. but we will be looking very closely at what we learned, what's happening at the capitol, working with congressional leadership and the presidential inauguration committee. >> reporter: thank you. >> i'm chuck todd, continuing our breaking news coverage following the attack on the u.s. capitol by a mob of trump supporters that were incited by the president to disrupt this congress' constitutional duty to count the electoral votes for president and vice president. at least four people died yesterday amid the events surrounding the capitol. explosive devices had to be disarmed. it was an event that will be indelibly burned into this nation's history. there are many questions to answer about what happened, why it happened, and whether something like it or, god
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forbid, worse, could happen again. amid the churning developments over the last few hours, one question arguably rises above them all. what happens now? we're left sorting through it all. the president's halting at times, sounding even congratulatory response to the violence, the 4:00 a.m. acknowledgement via a spokesman's tweet that there will be an orderly transition, he can't say peaceful, by the way, because it wasn't peaceful yesterday. the decision by facebook and twitter now banning trump from new social media posts. the republicans who finally seem to be saying count me out. and the republicans who aren't. the flood of calls from democrats and now one house republican for the president's immediate removal. chuck schumer, moments ago, joined that list. now, as you can see, numbering more than 100. there are also the resignations from inside the administration and others in the president's
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orbit. the apparent discussions inside the white house among staff and even some cabinet folks on invoking the 25th amendment. bill barr calling trump's conduct a betrayal of his office. they all revolve around this immediate question. can the president be restrained? congress soldiered on last night well into the night, in a capitol scarred by broken windows and bullet holes, as the smell of tear gas lingered in the air, to affirm that joe biden will be sworn in as president, but in 13 potentially very long days from now. 13 days. they made a movie about it, the last crisis that took 13 days. let's hope this isn't that kind of crisis. just like yesterday, i will be joined by my nbc colleagues, andrea mitchell and katy tur, we'll do our best to anchor the coverage over the next four hours. our nbc reporters will have the
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latest. we have political experts and insiders all standing by. we're also expecting to hear from quite a few leaders including i believe speaker pelosi. but andrea mitchell, and katy tur, i think we've got to begin today with, andrea, the accountability question and whether -- what's going to happen in the next 13 days? how does president trump get restrained? >> and there are no practical ways to do that within 13 days but a lot can happen, as we've seen in these 24-hour cycles. he's still commander in chief. we have questions to ask as to why he did not call up the national guard, did he delay the calling up, was it done by the vice president? that's not the chain of command. and what can he do overseas? we've already seen the overseas reaction. what could he do militarily or domestically by executive order? we've seen actually that he's not sending up the nomination of the acting homeland security secretary. is that to clear a path through
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the vacancy act and put somebody else in that position? there are so many aspects to this and the 25th amendment is not realistic, given this cabinet and this vice president. so what are the options? congress has left until january 19. could they be called back, as chuck schumer is hinting? what responsibility does this president have for, as many have charged, inciting this riot, tr through his denial of the election results from election morning until right now, but also through his rhetoric on the ellipse when he told them to march on the capitol? >> katy tur, can you imagine that the only accountability in the next 13 days is from facebook? >> no. i mean, yes, i can, that's the state we're in. but the accountability stretches far past donald trump and should stretch to his voters and also the republican party.
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listen, this wasn't two days building. this wasn't two weeks building or two months building. this has been building for ye s years. going back to his campaign starting in 2015, he has repeatedly claimed everything is against him, talking about how this election would be rigged if he didn't win, before the election happened. he talked about how the virus was a hoax meant to damage him. he talked about how impeachment was a hoax, the russia investigation was a hoax. back in 2016, before that election, he said that it would be rigged if he lost. his voters back then were ready to do whatever it took back then. we did stories on this. we talked to those voters. there were concerned about that election. he told supporters to punch protesters at his rallies, incited violence. he threatened the media, sicced his supporters against the media. gold star families, federal judges, anybody who he believed
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was standing in his way. this has been building, chuck and andrea, for years. and yes, these resignations that we're seeing today, great, better late than never. at the same time, where have you been? you have seen this coming, you knew who this man was. you didn't wake up today and suddenly realize testifies dangerous. this has been a part of who he has been since the very start. and remember, these republican lawmakers, many of his own staffers, were against him in the beginning, they called him a demagogue, they said he was dangerous in 2015 and 2016. after the "access hollywood" tape they said they could never support him. yet they did. they went along, they ignored tweets, "oh, i didn't see it," they ignored statements, they equivocated, they said we were blowing it up. and this is what resulted. >> each time, each time, and that's the question here, what is the unintended consequence of
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no accountability this time. i'm going to leave that meatball hanging in there a little bit. i'll bring in our reporters. let's get the latest from our nbc news reporters. pete williams is in our washington newsroom. kristen welker at the white house. kasie hunt on capitol hill. pete, i want to begin with the after-action report, the capitol police. where are we in the investigation, both in trying to figure out what went wrong inside capitol police, where are we with tracking down the police that ransacked this capitol, that trashed it? and where are we, the issue of, is there going to be accountability for these people or are they going to be let to walk away? >> so i will take 2 and 3 to be the same question. as for accountability for the capitol police, that's something that the committee members in charge of the capitol police are already working on. they're already asking for answers about what happened up there.
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the police chief has put out a statement basically congratulating his troops for doing the best they could under the circumstances but saying, you know, we were clearly outnumbered and we're going to investigate what happened. now, in terms of finding the people who did this and are responsible for it, a couple of things. number one, i have said earlier, and now it's actually happening for real, that the authorities will be exploiting this enormous, rich reserve of photographs of the people who were in that building yesterday. there's hours of video of them going through there, shot by news organizations, pictures like this that were shot by news photographers. many people have posted pictures online. and the government is already saying, let me just read you the part of the statement from the acting attorney general jeffrey rosen, he says, our prosecutors worked throughout the night with special agents and investigators from the capitol police, the
quote
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fbi, the atf, the metro police department here to gather this evidence, to identify these people and charge federal crimes. some participants, he says, will be charged today. and we will continue to methodically assess the evidence. so that's one line of the investigation, exploiting this enormous reserve of, you know, clear evidence of who was in the building, looking at social media, talking to people, trying to figure out who was there. i mean, the question has arisen, why weren't they arrested at the time. the answer is obvious, and the capitol police have said so, they just didn't have manpower to do that, because when you arrest somebody, you have to stop what you're doing to make that arrest. >> the now former attorney general bill barr has weighed in on what happened. what can you tell us, and did he do this on his own or did somebody ask? >> it's a little of both. he has put out a very short statement. i'll read you the whole thing.
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"orchestrating a mob to pressure congress is inexcusable. the president's conduct yesterday was a betrayal of his office and supporters." and i'm told that he may be saying perhaps more, perhaps an interview about this, in the days to come. but obviously he feels very strongly. >> and kristen welker at the white house, we now know in a tweet from the national security adviser robert o'brien, that matt pottinger, his deputy, one of the veteran people in the administration, has resigned. that's the highest profile resignation so far. >> reporter: that's absolutely right, andrea. we're seeing really a cascade of resignations here which started overnight. white house officials, administration officials, who were frankly infuriated with what they saw, the refusal by president trump to come out and condemn those who stormed the capitol yesterday. let me read you a part of the tweet, andrea, since this is breaking right now from national security adviser robert o'brien about matt pottinger.
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he says, matt pottinger has served the administration and the nation with distinction for the last four years. his work led to a great awakening in this country, he has my appreciation for a job well done and enduring friendship." the national security adviser, according to reports, is also considering his next steps, andrea, as well as a number of senior officials. we also have confirmed there have been some informal discussions about invoking the 25th amendment. of course, as you reported, more than 100 house democrats are calling for the president's removal immediately. adam kinzinger now joins that list. there have been some very informal conversations at the staff level about invoking the 25th amendment which would see the president removed from office. of course that would require the vice president to be on board with that as well as a majority of cabinet members and it's not
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clear it's reached the vice president or any cabinet member for that matter, andrea. so what's happening right here at the white house right now, i can tell you that president trump, when you talk about a split screen, is giving out the medal of freedom award to three golfers, one posthumously. what a split screen. as you see this mounting anger from within his own administration about the way in which he handled it, some calling it a betrayal, he is handing out the medal of freedom. i just spoke to one senior administration official. i asked for a reaction to the president's statement, at least the one conveyed through a spokesperson, saying that he would support an orderly transfer of power. this official called that statement weak. andrea? >> and as well, that was conveyed by dan scavino, his aide on twitter, because the president was blocked on twitter. and now we've got this system from mark zuckerberg banning him through the inaugural from
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facebook. this is pretty extraordinary. this is, as chuck was alluding to, the only accountability we've had so far is from facebook. >> reporter: it's absolutely extraordinary, andrea. facebook, and that will apply to instagram as well, temporarily blocked from twitter. twitter threatening to ban him permanently if he doesn't take down the false and misleading claims that he continued to put out yesterday, while this insurrection was under way. i just underscore where you began this broadcast. the fact that president trump, before a crowd of thousands yesterday, said he would never concede and essentially called on his supporters to march to the capitol. and that's exactly what they did, and then they stormed the capitol. it is worth noting that the president signed an executive order over the summer saying that anyone who desecrates federal property should get ten years in prison. so the question for him today, does he believe that now applies to all those who stormed the capitol yesterday? >> that is a really good question.
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kasie hunt, last night joe biden and kamala harris's victory was announced, was declared by mike pence after all of the votes were counted. but there were still objections to multiple states. and i think that came as a surprise to a lot of people who said, hey, listen, how could you still do that, how could you still perpetuate this falsehood, this lie that there was widespread election fraud after everything that had happened, all the bloodshed and the vandalism of yesterday? what is the reaction this morning? >> reporter: katy, i think that you did see a shift of significance among republicans, especially in the senate. you saw that in particular from james lankford, who gave a speech on the floor about this, and from others who were urging to say, hey, what we saw transpire here changes my mind. but you're right that there still were so many objections, especially in the house of representatives. and i think the challenge there is that a lot of these members
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of the house have only known the trump era. and the voters that they answer to at home are voters who, frankly, are listening when the president says march to the capitol, when the president puts out these messages on his social media platforms that have now been stopped by twitter and by facebook. so i think that what we saw yesterday, and just walking, just coming into the office up here, walking through these hallways, i think it hit me again, just how dramatic the moment was. and if it was that way for me, imagine being an elected lawmaker. many of them have been here for decades. they obviously are used to having free rein of the building, they control the chambers, the security of the entire thing, and they lost hold of that. i was walking down the hallway thinking, it's going to be a really long time before i feel totally safe in this building
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the way i did just 24 hours ago when i walked in yesterday. that sense, the sense of utter violation that is pervading the capitol, i mean, there are bullet holes in the windows. it's not taped off like a crime scene up here. you can walk up, take pictures of them. the offices were ransacked at the capitol. there is trash all over the floors. there were fire extinguishers that were discharged. what's inside those fire extinguishers is now spread out over the floor of the capitol. these were sacred halls for all of these people. the idea that that's not going to have a significant political impact, i don't see a world where it can't. >> it's really shocking, kasie, all of your reporting, extraordinary reporting. let's turn to someone who knows those halls so well, leon panetta who served as cia director, white house chief of staff, omb director, and
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represented california in the house of representatives, you were budget chairman, your son is a member of congress. you are part of the expanded congressional family. leon panetta, what is your reaction when you saw mobs with confederate flags marching through statuary hall, into chambers, and sitting in the speaker's office? >> andrea, in my over 50 years of public life, i have never seen a more disturbing event take place than the capitol of the united states under siege by a mob, bringing our democracy to a halt. it was a moment where you suddenly worry about the fragility of our democracy and the fact that it doesn't take much to be able to undermine our great country. we saw it happen yesterday. and i think we all have to be
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very vigilant about what happens in these next few days. >> is chuck schumer right, and others, calling for the 25th amendment? is that even realistic? and if not, what are your concerns about what the president could do militarily if not domestically? >> well, i understand the concern, because the president is obviously unpredictable and very vengeful and does not have the interests of the country at heart. having said that, i don't think it's likely that you're going to see vice president pence and the cabinet, this cabinet, come together to implement the 25th amendment. i think it's more realistic to try to get the vice president and to get leader mcconnell to
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go down to the white house and to try to make clear to the president that if we're going to have a peaceful transition and an orderly transition, just exactly what steps have to be taken in order to make sure that that happens. i think this is a moment to try to make sure that those that might have some influence over the president of the united states exercise that influence to try to make sure that we do have a transition to a new administration. >> leon, you know, what you're talking about, though, they've been trying to do that, right? there have been those attempts. he is banning people from the white house, or trying to, right, when it comes to certain people. let me ask you this. just talking about the defense department right now, if you were over there and you had this -- and you were working over there, and you had this
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out-of-control commander in chief, and we have 13 days here, what would you be doing to sort of make sure damage couldn't be done? what can the acting secretary of defense -- what should he be doing, what should general milley be thinking about right now? >> i think the most important consideration that all of us have to remember is that our military leadership has made clear that they will not get involved in a political act to try to determine what happened in the election and that they will not respond to a president who tries to politicize our military. and you saw, obviously, ten former secretaries of defense make exactly that point. i'm confident that general
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milley and the military leadership in our country is not going to respond to an order that would jeopardize the country. it's that simple. and i hope that the acting secretary of defense understands that his responsibility is to make sure that that does not happen. so i guess because of my faith in the military leadership, i'm much more confident that the military is not going to be abused in these last few days. >> secretary, it's katy tur. what does it say to you that it seemed to be vice president pence yesterday who got the national guard to deploy to the capitol, that he was the one that was calling the shots? i know the 25th amendment has not been invoked. but could there be a situation where the vice president is the one that is being listened to right now? >> it sounds like that's the
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situation. if the president is obviously at a moment in time when the country is in jeopardy and the capitol is being under a mob that is conducting virtual insurrection, and the president, for whatever reason, can't come to a decision as to what should happen with the national guard, i hope that the vice president does understand, and i think he does, based on the events of the last few days, that he may be the only individual in this administration, at this point in time, that can ensure that there is an orderly transition to a new administration, and that he may very well have to exercise additional powers in order to ensure that something stupid does not happen by virtue of this president. >> and just very briefly, do you
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think there should be, as colin powell suggested today, an emergency contingent of national guard and marines standing by until this president is out of office? >> i think that right now the main focus ought to be on making sure that there is sufficient security on capitol hill in particular. i was very disturbed that obviously there was not sufficient planning, based on what we knew could very well happen. and because of that, i think it's absolutely essential that there be a security presence on the hill to make sure that this does not happen again and that there be sufficient security for the inauguration. that ought to be the principal focus, in order to make sure that we do not see the events of yesterday repeated.
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>> leon panetta, if i list your resume again, i'll lose a half hour. that's my go-to joke, i appreciate you humoring me by laughing again. coming up, a riotous mob invaded the house chambers. coming up next, two house members who were in the chambers when the doors were barricaded. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ stand up to moderate to severe rheumatoid arthritis. and take. it. on... ...with rinvoq. rinvoq a once-daily pill
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the reality is the 25th amendment was put in place to ensure that government can continue to survive in unforeseen circumstances. it's been invoked in the past, for instance when a president goes under anesthesia for surgery. i think yesterday it became clear that the president is unmoored from reality and from his oath. and i think the vice president taking over and ensuring that the next couple of weeks are a peaceful transfer is essential right now to the continuation of this strong union. >> illinois congressman adam kinzinger, the first republican lawmaker calling for the 25th amendment to be invoked that would put vice president pence as the temporary president. we're joined now by congressman jason crow, a democrat from colorado, a former army ranger,
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actually one of the impeachment managers during last year's trial. also with us is michigan congresswoman elissa slotkin, a member of the house armed services committee and a former cia officer. congressman crow, you were the last one out of the chamber. narrate those harrowing moments, when did you hear it and when it happened, when did you think at first? when did you realize what was happening? >> about 15 or 20 other members, we were watching the debate. i saw on my news feed that the outer security cordon had been breached and protesters were descending -- i should say rioters, let's be clear, the rioters descended on the capitol. they escorted the leadership off the floor, then escorted the members on the floor off the floor. those of us who were in the gallery couldn't get out as quickly. it happened really fast.
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within a couple of minutes, the rioters encircled the house chamber, capitol police used furniture to barricade doors and windows. there were gunshots. the rioters were trying to ram the doors down, break the glass. we were all thinking we might have to make a stand there. >> adam kinzinger, a moment ago, a republican, was calling for the 25th amendment and didn't rule out impeachment as long as it resulted in a conviction. what do you think needs to happen with donald trump right now? i'm sorry, congressman slotkin, i think my mic was down. what would you like to see happen to donald trump right now? >> listen, i think the easiest and most [ inaudible ]. >> congresswoman slotkin, i'm so
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sorry, you're audio is bad, we're having audio issues. i'll instead put that question to congressman crow. what do you think? >> sure. well, anybody of sound mind and who has been paying attention at all, the last four-plus years, knows this president was capable of this. he's done it before, in charlottesville, he incited violence at his rallies. we knew he was going to do it yesterday. i was not surprised by that. i was surprised that they were able to breach the capitol security and there was a catastrophic security failure. the president has shown us time and time again who he is. and i actually, as you mentioned, i was an impeachment manager, so a year ago i made the case for his removal because i think he's a violent man, i don't think he's well, i think he's dangerous for democracy. i've known that for a very long time. i do think he should be removed. he continues to pose a threat as long as he sits on pennsylvania
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avenue. >> congresswoman slotkin, i think we fixed the audio. let me ask you, as a former intelligence official, how bad was the intelligence, that capitol police, homeland security, didn't know that this was a threat that could have been averted by making this a national security event as states of the union and inaugurals are? >> yeah, you know, i know there's a lot of talk about what went wrong yesterday on the security side and the planning that went on. i think we'll have a ton of time to do a proper after-action review and learn the lessons from what happened. and no one's more interested in that than i am. but i got to say, it takes the focus off of the fact that the president of the united states and some of his senior supporters incited insurrection yesterday. and i think by talking about the security posture and going immediately to that, we sometimes miss what happened. the strategic importance of what happened yesterday. so we will have plenty of time, and clearly we were not prepared
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here on the grounds of the can as tolcapitol. but i also saw amazing incidents of bravery, capitol police on their own putting their whole weight on a door as people are punching through it. i saw real bravery yesterday. but let's not take the focus right now off what the president did. >> all right, let's not take the focus off that have, congresswoman. let's talk about the approximately 120 or so of your colleagues, all on the republican side of the aisle, who after what happened yesterday, still insisted on voting to object on free and fair election results in pennsylvania and arizona. that's not an insignificant chunk of the house of representatives. how do we function going forward, where you have that many members of congress who
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arguably were trying to overturn the democracy, if you will? >> yeah, i mean, a number of us have tabblked about this, it's very hard. i'm the first person who talks about the importance of working across the aisle. i represent a trump-voting district. i believe it in my bones. i admit it is harder when i'm talking with my peers who are literally trying to overturn our democracy, our democratic process. first and foremost we need to look at the members who actually spoke with the rally which was a number of them. we need to look at their comments. if they do inspired insurrection, they should be formally censured by the body. for the rest of them who went ahead and did this, who didn't incite violence in any way, it's a difficult moment. it's similar to impeachment where we had a major philosophical difference on what was happening. but i saw a lot of my republican peers do the right thing yesterday as well. >> congressman jason crow,
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congresswoman elisa slotkin, thank you both for coming on and sharing your perspective with us, appreciate it. coming up, there are just 13 days left in this trump administration. but for the past 1,448 days, scores of republicans have supported, placated, even echoed the president in his fringe conspiracy theories. now what is the future of the republican party? that's ahead. i'm susan and i'm 52 and i live in san francisco, california. i have been a sales and sales management professional my whole career. typical day during a work week is i'm working but first always going for a run or going to the gym. i love reading. i love cooking healthy. it's super important to me. i was noticing that i was just having some memory loss. it was really bothering me. so i tried prevagen and it started to work for me. i wish i had taken prevagen five or ten years ago. prevagen. healthier brain. better life. than rheumatoid arthritis.
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house speaker nancy pelosi will be speaking to the press in 20 minutes, nearly 24 hours after a mob stormed the capitol that was spurred on by president trump and his continued false claims about the election. joining me now, brendan buck, former adviser to former republican house speakers paul ryan and john boehner and former congresswoman donna edwards. brendan buck, karl rove said yesterday that the republican party is engaged in a civil war. do you concur? >> yeah, it's obvious that we're falling apart in front of our eyes. what i'm worried about is the other side of the civil war, the side against donald trump, is still vanishingly small. and i'm hoping that what happened yesterday is going to change that and that you're going to start finally seeing a few more republicans who realize
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that trumpism has been a cancer on the republican party. what we saw yesterday was the natural evolution of where this has been going. you had obviously a president who has been lying to people for months, for years, but you also had republican senators who were engaging it, who were perpetuating that lie, and this is what happened. and i'm hoping that what happened yesterday will open people's eyes and tell them that we can't keep doing this. look, we had a complicated history with the president, when i was working for speaker ryan. it's very clear at this point, he is a lost cause. he is dangerous. he's an electoral disaster. and we need to move on past him. >> what about the lawmakers, brendan, who are still perpetuating these lies? josh hawley continued on with it last night, ted cruz as well, other senators, members of the house, mo brooks going out there today and saying this was really antifa that stormed the capitol. you're hearing that same thing repeated on fox news.
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how do you move on from that when the misinformation, the disinformation, the lies, are still being amplified? >> yeah, the two senators that you mentioned are stick-outs to me. there were a handful of, frankly, crack pots in the house who believe these things. but senators cruz and hawley know better. they know this is all nonsense and they're doing it to score some type of political gain. this is what makes me so mad. i worked in this building for so long, i got involved in politics because i wanted to do something good. i believed in ideas and people coming together and trying to solve problems. this is none of that. this is selling out what your obligations and your responsibilities to the constitution and to your voters are for pure political short term gain. they're throwing away what their obligations are. that's what so maddening about this. so yes, this shame is on the shoulders of senators hawley and cruz. i hope they wear it for a long
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time. donald trump has been lying, but these guys have been perpetuating this lie for the last two months and this is on them. >> donna edwards, what is the likelihood that if this had been a black lives matter protest, that the protesters, the mob, would have been surging through the capitol building unimpeded, for hours, before they were finally contained and ejected? >> well, i just want to identify myself, associate myself with the words of joy reid, your colleague, our colleague at msnbc, who said that, you know, really clearly, if that had happened, we would have seen a different result. shackles and, you know, gunshots and people dead, even, and more arrests. and we didn't see that last night. this was a catastrophic failure of security, failure to identify these people as terrorists, know that they were coming down the street and to secure the capitol. but i have to say, when you have
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more than half of the republican conference now agreeing that joe biden shouldn't be seated as the next president of the united states, this isn't just a handful of insurrectionists coming into the capitol. it's half of the political leadership in the house of representatives that supports this idea. and that is not sustainable for a legitimate political party in the united states and it's not sustainable for the congress of the united states. >> donna, if you were still serving in this congress, how would you work with these 125 insurrectionists? >> i think that the idea for this next congress would be to figure out that coalition that's built on democrats and the other half that did not go along with this nonsense. and i don't know, i mean, i would say i don't think that i would trust kevin mccarthy and
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his leadership in terms of reigning in people so that the business of the country can be done. i think democrats are going to have to count on that small bloc of republicans who they know that they can possibly work with to move forward legislation, get it over to the senate, and get it to president biden's desk for signature. and i think it's going to be a very, very complicated environment. but i don't know how you work with people who are willing to throw away the constitution, violate their oaths of office, and, you know, sort of raise their fists to insurrectionists who are storming the capitol of the united states. >> donna edwards, brendan buck, thank you very much for joining us. joining us now is clint watts, former fbi special agent on joint terrorism task force and a senior fellow at the foreign policy research insultitute. clint, i'm still stuck on the preparation that the capitol
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police had in place for yesterday. you and i spoke over the summer about donald trump calling the election rigged, we spoke about his supporters taking that seriously, we spoke about the anger, the misinformation that was being stoked online, especially in the darker areas of the web. i am still at a loss for how this wasn't anticipated yesterday, especially when you consider the anticipation that law enforcement had for black lives matter's protesters. >> katy, it's remarkable. lots of researchers on social media have been doing this for the last couple of weeks. a week ago it became very clear it was going to be sizable in mass. all of the key individuals that are stoking this, roger stone, general flynn, qanon, they were there. their supporters were in the capitol building. this is well-known. it really just comes down to one thing and that's the president. when you look at the law enforcement environment until the district of columbia, it's the local police force and then
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it is a very partitioned federal group of assets there. and so we saw that this can be done, because during the george floyd protests, what happened? the president called in everybody, right? black lives matter protests, everybody shows up there. this is one of those cases where it really shows that the president has a lot of power, particularly in the district of columbia, and we knew about this and yet there was no real response. dhs, the pentagon, it was very slow. >> clint, i know you track these nefarious groups that sometimes they're on your 4chans or your qanons. what are you saying post this event, in their conversations, do they believe they succeeded in doing something or that they failed in doing something? >> it's victory laps. if you're a big qanon character,
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you traveled there, went to a protest, and you have pictures of yourself now inside the capitol. that makes you a hero in that world. you're one of the only people in the room who is delivering on what you said you were going to do. these pictures will be trumpeted in these people's communities. they're now seen as the leaders. this is no different than any other sort of extremist movement. when you see extremists go, and they sacrifice, they commit acts, they do things in pursuit of the cause, they said they were going to storm the capitol and then they did. this elevates them. and let me tell you what, this is just a fix. it's very hard to go back and say, i'll never do anything like that again. if you achieve something in these communities, you elevate it. a lot of communities and state capitals should be worried today. >> is there anything that could counteract that, if there were a statement from the president of the united states, yes, this went too far, and finally
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separating himself from the very people he has refused to dissociate himself from because he says he likes the fact that they support him? >> the president won't stop. i don't imagine. i expect this to continue post-inauguration, there will be rallies, bringing people together, because this is a money-making scheme and a power broker scheme. the biggest thing that makes me think this will continue, as chuck was talking about before i came on, 120 congress men showed up after this happened yesterday to double down on a completely bogus conspiracy. as long as we have political leaders, ideological leaders that are advancing this cause, their supporters are going to be inclined to follow. >> and a new elected qanon member of congress. >> yeah. clint watts, i feel like we had this conversation too often these days, and more and more. and unfortunately it's because it's this mainstream. clint watts, former fbi analyst and a key national security adviser to us, thanks very much. thousands of rioters, many
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in tactical gear, camo, and an unknown number of them armed, storm a federal building. in portland, federal troops were sent in and crackdown ensued. the u.s. capitol, a much different response. you have to ask why. eugene robinson joins us next. a must in your medicine cabinet! less sick days! cold coming on? zicam® is clinically proven to shorten colds! highly recommend it! zifans love zicam's unique zinc formula. it shortens colds! zicam zinc that cold!
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so ditch the old way of selling your car, and say hello to the new way at carvana. welcome back. joining me now, eugene robinson,
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dlmist for "the washington post," msnbc political analyst, pulitzer prize-winner. boy, have i been wanting to talk to you, gene. when you see the contrast between the national guard on the steps of the national mall when black lives matter was protesting here a few months ago, and then in contrast the steps of the u.s. capitol completely unguarded, the perimeter not at all protected with people storming across the steps when we see the national guard there. they arrived hours later and it had already been breached. how do you explain the difference in the way the law enforcement reacted? >> well, the answer is obvious, andrea. >> yes. >> has everything to do with race. everything to do with race. there's no other explanation for it, and, look, the national
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guard there to protect a statue at the lincoln memorial. a great statue. a statue that we all prize and cherish and that's fine. but here was a mob that was -- that we -- everyone knew was assembling. everyone knew had the capitol as its target, and they were trying to overthrow the government. they were trying to stop, to halt the peaceful transfer of power from president trump, who is trying to cling to power, to joe biden who was elected in a free and fair election and they were trying to stop that. they were trying to wreck our democracy. with congress inside. and the vice president. and there is essentially no security. it looked like a regular day at the capitol. so what other difference could there possibly be other than the fact that the black lives matter
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protests were largely black and this protest was almost exclusively white. that's just the fact. >> eugene, people keep asking how we move on, how we come back together. what does joe biden do? and you wrote this about the next two weeks. it's possible to see better days ahead. inauguration day is just two weeks away, but somehow our damaged nation has to make it through those next two weeks. police and the national guard are capable of re-establishing peace in the streets. but the wounds are ragged and deep. we'll be paying for the mistake of electing this bitter, twisted man as president for a long, long time. >> yeah, and i do, unfortunately, i believe we will be. the fractures and divisions in our society about race, about income, about class, about
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education, about a lot of things have been there. and they were there when donald trump became president. the one thing that donald trump does brilliantly in politics, it's the only thing he knows how to do is drive wedges mean drove wedges in all those cracks and from cracks into chasms. and at the same time, there was the solidification of these two sort of -- not just two media ecosystems but two completely separate realities. and so the people who were in that mob yesterday that sacked the capitol, sacked the u.s. capitol, believe that a whole bunch of events happened over the last few years that actually didn't happen. they believe a bunch of stuff that is just objectively not true. and they have this completely false world view, reinforced
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over and over again in the right wing media verse. and don't hear the truth. the truth cannot penetrate. so this is the problem that all of us need to think about and try to figure some way to work on because, frankly, i haven't figured it out. i haven't figured out how you bring a nation together when they don't even see the same reality. don't even agree on what happened last week. they don't agree on basic facts. it's very difficult. two different realities in this country right now. >> do you think the president will ever be held accountable? l., look, you know, as president, he's got less than two weeks left. i doubt -- there's not time for him to be impeached, and i doubt
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seriously that the 25th amendment process, which should have taken place a long time ago, i doubt seriously that it will take place over the next 12 or 13 days. but maybe new york state prosecutors and other local prosecutors might hold him accountable for some other things. >> eugene robinson, always good to have your voice with us. from "the washington post." thank you, sir. it's a busy hour ahead as we expect to hear from house speaker nancy pelosi. she'll be holding her weekly news conference. this is no ordinary week. we'll bring you her comments live. plus, president-elect joe biden is also scheduled to speak within the hour to present the team he'll nominate to lead the department of justice. they may be the ones ultimately to prosecute many of the people responsible for the violence we saw inside the u.s. capitol. our special coverage of the crisis on capitol hill continues after this. you're watching msnbc.
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welcome back. i'm chuck todd with our continuing coverage of this special breaking news that we've been dealing with for the last 48 hours. the senate's chuck schumer and others have joined a list calling for the president's immediate removal after he incited a mob of his supporters who rioted and stormed the capitol building.

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