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tv   The Last Word With Lawrence O Donnell  MSNBC  January 28, 2021 7:00pm-8:00pm PST

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i was as shocked as you were today to realize waking up that it's not friday. today wasn't friday. but it has come to my attention that today the friday eve. and that means more than you can possibly know. we'll see you again tomorrow night. now it is time for "the last word with lawrence o'donnell." stevening lawrence. >> good evening, rachel. the weekend is in sight. and the jen psaki interview is a pleasure to watch.
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she is, the breakout star so far of week one of the biden administration. and it's not unusual because the press secretary is the one who's out there in front of the camera more than anyone other than the president. so, she has instantly taken command of that room, and it has been, as you said, you know, a kind of shocking gear change for us and welcomed gear change for us to deal with. and i love the way you two talked about what's happening and what's going to happen. >> well, i mean, she's setting the tone for the administration. we have actually heard a lot from the new president in the past eight days. he has spoken publicly a lot. but we are hearing even more from jen psaki in the briefing room, and she's setting this tone of normalcy, accountability, expository work that tells us what the administration thinks the problem is, what they are doing to work on it, who is in charge of that work.
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and that person will be answering questions about it, as will jen psaki on behalf of the entire administration. it's just basic accountability, which is basic small deed democracy, which is just something we were used to before. we lost it for four years, and now it just feels so radical to get back to it. i hope it never -- i hope we never take it for granted again. >> i think we have, for this year, a series of rachel and jen conversations coming up at 9:00 p.m. intermitt italy -- >> i hope so. >> -- from time to time that we will all be looking forward to. >> i hope very much. thank you for saying that, lawrence. well, nadia was thrown in prison by vladimir putin because she sang a song in a cathedral in moscow. she had a little baby at the time. she got out of prison because of pressure put on vladimir putin by the united states and other countries around the world. she will join us at the end of this hour to talk about what joe
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biden's new pressure on vladimir putin means to the current enormous wave of protests in the russia. and in our continued counsel concentration on the year of the senate we will turn to con if you remembering federal judges. mitch mcconnell turned the senate into a high speed confirmation factory for federal judges during the trump years. and now it's time to catch up. dahlia lith wick will join us to say what will be the non-stop concentration on federal judges and what to expect from the presidential commission joe biden is appointing to study the possible expansion of the united states supreme court. a federal judge apointed by president obama refused to let this guy out of jail this week. judge barrel howell said he would have to wait because what
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happened on that day in the u.s. capitol was criminal activity that is destined to go down in history books. the fbi are closing in on hundred of invaders of the capitol. but nancy pelosi said today the real problem now is the enemy within the house of representatives. this enemy of the house, this enemy of the constitution is a member of the house of representatives, and she believes all of the worst things that the invaders of the capitol believe, all of the stupidest things, the racist things, the antisemitic things. marjorie taylor greene was so poisonous that even house republican leaders, kevin mccarthy and steve scalise actively opposed her candidacy in a republican primary. she publicly supported assassinated nancy pelosi, and now she is fully embraced by the republicans in the house and the senate. when a poison like that enters your political system and you
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say and do nothing about it, then you are more than complicit. that means you actually want that poison in your politics because you believe it will help you. congressman jason crow will join us later in this hour to discuss what it means to be going to work every day with a member of the house of representatives who has advocated for the assassination of the house speaker. it is into that poisoned system on the republican side of congress that joe biden will be sending the legislation he needs to pass to do what he promised america he will do. but before biden legislation begins to move in the congress, the president is already doing job one by executive order, which is undo the damage that trump has done. >> it's been a busy week, and i've signed executive orders tackling covid-19, the economic crises as well as advanced
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racial equity. but today i'm about to sign two executive orders to undo the damage trump has done. there's nothing new that we're doing here other than restoring the affordable care act and restoring the medicaid to the way it was before trump became president, which by fiat he made more inaccessible, more expensive and more difficult for people to qualify for either of those two items, the affordable care act or medicaid. and the second order i'm signing relates to protecting women's health at home and abroad. and it reinstates the changes that were made in title 10, making it harder for imwith to have access to affordable health care as it relates to their reproductive rights. >> nbc reports that president
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biden is already in direct communication with some republican senators. jen psaki confirmed that the rachel in the last hour. those senators include rob portman and senator susan collins who president biden worked with when he was a member of the senate. >> the relationship that i have with joe biden is closer than the relationship that i had with president obama or with president trump. and i'm very happy to have a good relationship with him. the fact that he called me -- he's called me twice since the election -- i think is a very good sign. and we had an extremely friendly conversation as well as a substantive one. and he encouraged me to call him any time. >> house republican leader kevin mccarthy has promised to have a word with marjorie taylor greene about the racist, antisemitic, homicidal thoughts she has
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publicly expressed. but more important mri for kevin mccarthy, he had to go to florida today to talk to the man who is facing trial for incitement of insurrection at the u.s. capitol. >> the president bears responsibility for wednesday's attack on congress by mob rioters. he should have immediately denounced the mob when he saw what was unfolding. these facts require immediate action by president trump. accept his share of responsibility, quell the bruling unrest and ensure president-elect biden is able to successfully begin his term. >> the cowardly kevin did not say a word of that to donald trump today. kevin mccarthy released a statement saying, today president trump committed to helping elect republicans in the house and senate in 2022. that commitment is of course worth absolutely nothing because
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it's from donald trump. kevin mccarthy still hasn't released a statement saying that marjorie taylor greene has promised not to encourage the assassination of the speaker of the house anymore or the assassination of anyone else in the house of representatives or anywhere else. democratic congressman of los angeles jimmy gomez has introduced a resolution to expel marjorie taylor greene from the house of representatives. here is what congressman gomez told chris hayes tonight. >> marjorie taylor greene, a conspiracy theorist and believes in all sorts of kra si things. the wort thing is she's incited crowds in the past to storm the capitol, to go after nancy pelosi. they were even chanting hang mike pence. and now she's still a member of congress. so, i believe she is a clear and present danger to the members of the house of representatives just simply for the fact she also is able to bring a gun to
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the house office buildings, and she's walked around the metal detectors going to the floor. there's a strong sense that something worse than january 6th could happen if she continues in office. >> today nancy pelosi said there is no difference between marjorie taylor greene and kevin mccarthy and the rest of the republican leadership in congress. >> what i'm concerned about is the republican leadership in the house of representatives who is willing to overlook, ignore those statements. assigning her to the education committee when she has mocked the killing of little children at sandy hook elementary school, when she has mocked the killing of teenagers in high school at
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the marjory stoneman douglas high school. what could they be thinking? or is thinking too generous a word for what they might be doing? it's absolutely appalling, and i think that the focus has to be on the republican leadership of this house of representatives for the disregard they have for the death of those children. as someone who would mock, call it a fake -- those fake events -- is just beyond -- it's just beyond any understanding of any regard that the house republicans would have for the house of representatives, for the congress of the united states and for the heartbreak of the families in sandy hook and at marjorie stone high school. >> leading off our discussion tonight, former congressman david jolly. he left the republican party in 2018. he's an msnbc political analyst.
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former white house communications director for president obama, hillary clinton's presidential campaign. she hosts podcast "just something about her." david jolly, let me begin with you tonight because those are your former colleagues on the republican side of the aisle and the house that nancy pelosi is talking about tonight. what is the difference between kevin mccarthy and the new members who -- some of whom, one of whom, has advocated the assassination of nancy pelosi? >> apparently nothing. kevin mccarthy and republican leaders should publicly condemn marjorie taylor greene. they should eject her from the house republican conference, refuse to seat her on any committees and isolate her from any support of the party apparatus or the friendly donors that typically support republican members. lawrence, here's why marjorie taylor greene is dangerous. the fbi, for the first time in may of 2019, warned that it was
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not just the white nationalists, not just the white supremacists that were creating a domestic terrorism danger. it was the conspiracy theory groups that were fuelling that constituency. when christopher wray, the fbi director testified last september before the homeland security committee, he said it is the conspiracy theory groups that are feeling the anger of the white nationalist groups. it's the conspiracy groups that are creating the threat to our government. and marjorie taylor greene, one of the members of these conspiracy theory groups has now been elevated to the united states congress. what fed the lies of the january 6th event was not just the president of the united states but this dangerous conspiracy ridden online community of which marjorie taylor greene has shown herself to be a champion. kevin mccarthy may not listen to me and my advice to eject marjorie taylor greene from the house republican congress, but he should listen to the fbi
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director. she is a danger not just to the congress but to the country. >> you want to get your read of this first week of the biden administration and specifically jen psaki. i was thinking of you in the last hour when rachel was interviewing jen psaki. you have a similar experience working in the white house. you know how to judge these things and how well it's going. she's going to be the face, in many ways, of the biden agenda on a daily basis with the news media. that biden agenda is going up to a congress that is equally divided almost in the senate, slight advantage to the democrats. democrats have advantage in the house. but with this very strong republican opposition that includes this wild edge, this wild and dangerous edge of the republican party that is present both in the house and the senate. when you're at that white house podium and you're trying to get the kind of attention that she's
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trying to get on the biden agenda, how do you do that when you know what is happening right outside -- basically outside of that room and capitol hill and the way it's being received up there? >> so, i think they've done a great job. it's only been a week and i'm sure they have a lot of tough days ahead of them. but you can tell jennifer psaki works -- this is her second white house. people like ron klain, it's their third white house. people like ryan deese, national economic adviser, it's his third white house. joe biden has decades and decades of experience. these are people who know what they're doing. they know that jen has had a remarkable first week at the podium. but you also know they're not going to be the show that the trump white house was, right? so, they need to be constantly on air. they need to be -- they need to have lots of voices at the podium that are speaking on different issues to make -- to
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try to have as much reach as possible to show the breadth of the work they're doing. i thought it was very smart that they are working with congress. with psaki started her press briefing yesterday, i noted she went out of the way to talk about the meetings they're having on the hill but also with mayors to show their outreach isn't just retained to republicans on the hill or even just to washington, d.c. that they're talking to lot of people to show when push comes to shove. they got caught trying. they're showing they're putting the work in. while they're working with congress, they're doing executive actions and show they're making progress for the american people day after day after day. we're on day 7. each day it's something new. it's a shock and awe response and it comes from a response that knows what they're doing. they'll have tough days, but i think they are off to a great start. and it shows how much experience
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that they have on the policy and communications front. >> jennifer, i have to say your showshotime's circus, you get video we don't see anywhere else. you have a shot of jen psaki before her first white house briefing. she's backstage. she's about to open the door to go out there. it was as it would have been done in the movie, and i hope everyone can go find it. it's a wonderful moment. before that door opens, we're all as excited as she is as what's going to happen when she steps out there. beautifully done, thank you both for starting us off tonight. really appreciate it. coming up jason crow is dealing with the enemy within in the house of representatives every day. congressman crow joins us next. . congressman crow joins us next se table until your finished. fine, we'll sleep here. ♪♪ it's the easiest because it's the cheesiest.
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congresswoman susan wild was terrified during the invasion of the capitol, but it would have been much worse if jason crow wasn't holding her hand. >> what was going through my head was frankly terror. unlike jason, i don't have combat experience. i'm very grateful to have been in the foxhole with jason. it's the closest i have ever come to something like that. and i will tell you that what's going -- it was a scene of total confusion and chaos, at least for somebody who had never been in that kind of experience.
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>> but our next guest, jason crow, can't protect every member of congress, especially now that house speaker nancy pelosi says the enemy is within the house. >> we want to have a scientific approach to how we protect members. i do believe and i have said this all along, that we will probably need a supplemental for more security for members when the enemy is within the house of representatives, a threat that members are concerned about in addition to what is happening outside. >> currently there is no budget and there has never been a budget for providing individual security to members of the house of representatives or to senators. they don't get body guards in washington or back in their home districts. and the one place they always thought they never had to be worried was inside the house of representatives. nancy pelosi left no doubt about what she meant when she said the
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enemy is within. >> what exactly did you mean when you said, the enemy is within. what did you mean by that? >> it means we have members of congress that want to bring guns on the floor and have threatened violence on other members of congress. >> she is of course talking about marjorie taylor greene and other republican members of congress who have tried to bring guns on to the house floor. politico is reporting the republican house staffer who works for one of the extremist member who is voted to overturn the election results has received multiple calls from constituent who is say the rioters didn't inflict enough damage and there should have been more people storming the capitol. joining us now is democratic congressman jason crow of colorado. congressman crow, thank you very much for joining us again tonight. what is the feeling in the house of representatives, and what do you think is needed in the house of representatives now about security in the aftermath of the capitol invasion?
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>> hi lawrence, yeah, things are very tense. there's obviously still a lot of security here on capitol hill. we want to see change. we have to see change. you know, what happened on january 6th was obviously a catastrophic security failure. there's no doubt about that. but i think the challenge that we face right now is we have to address that security situation. we have to address this threat of domestic home grown terrorism that we see, but we have to do it in a way that doesn't change who we are. that's what i want to see. i don't think we should let this violent mob, this group of terrorists change who we are as a congress and as a people. so, we have to make sure we're taking that into account. there's a lot of things we can do to change security and make capitol hill to provide security for members. there's a comprehensive security assessment underway right now so we'll have to see what comes out of that assessment and what we have to do. also remember this is the people's house and that accessibility and transparency
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is essential to who we are. >> what about security for members of congress when they're outside of washington, when they're in their home states, their home districts or traveling anywhere in the united states? >> yeah, i think we're going to have to settle into a new normae of months. the bottom line is this that president trump has radicalized an entire wing of the far right. you know, we have an extremist right wing movement that has been radicalized, that is armed, that is extremely dangerous. we saw that on january 6th, and it's not new. it's been around for decades, the foundations and beginnings of it sbrn around for many decades. but president trump brought it out in the open and has romanticized it and given them license and permission to sow their violence throughout the country. we're going to have to make sure we are being extra diligent, that we have resources available
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to members to make sure they and their families are safe. that's the new normal. that's the unfortunate reality of what we're in. we have to do that while we also understand that accessibility to our constituents is essential to our democracy and our job. wither going to have to do both of those and we're going to have to figure out how to do them both. >> all 50 governors have securities because they're commanders of their own state police. some of them have bigger security entourages than others. hundred of mayors have security because they have their own police departments, their local police departments that are with them at their side all the time. and it always shocks people when i tell them, i have this conversation privately all the time, that no, there's absolutely zero security for the united states senator, zero security for jason crow and the members of the house of representatives. and after what we saw on january 6th, is there anything resembling a plan to do anything
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about that? >> well, the planning is underway right now. there is a comprehensive assessment that has been commissioned by the house leadership. general hon ray is leading that. it's my understanding that's going to be done by march 5th. so it has to be fact based. it has to look at things holistically. but i am still a little bit -- i'm grieving a little bit for this new environment because, you know, i used to carry a gun. i used to carry a gun for work in iraq and afghanistan for you our country, to defend our country and our freedoms. then i left the service. i took my uniform off and left that life behind me and started a family, became a veterans advocate, became a member of congress. and i never thought that i would be in an environment where i would have to have armed security and guards and have, you know, guns to protect me and my family. that's never the way i wanted to live and that's never the way i
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envisioned american democracy and elected officials acting or having to act and have available to them. so, i'm still frankly kind of personally grieving about the environment that we're in right now. so, we have to figure this out. i don't have the answer to it right now. the bottom line is there has to be some change. we have to make sure we're protecting ourselves, our families, our communities, our constituents in the capitol. at the same time, how do we reconcile that against our need for accountability and accessibility and transparency and to not become, you know, a fortified government. because that's not the way we want to be. that's not the way we want to live. i think we have to figure that out. that is a leadership challenge and i don't think anyone has the answer to it right now. >> let me just say i certainly don't have the answer to it. when i was working in the congress and the senate, it was a much calmer time than now. and i grieve with you about the loss of just what it used to feel like to work there before
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january 6th. jason crow, thank you very much for joining us tonight. >> thanks lawrence. coming up, most people who qualify for the covid vaccine are having trouble, to put it mildly, getting an appointment to get that vaccine. dr. fauci says it might be time to create a new vaccine to deal with the new variants. dr. peter hotez joins us next. it's either the assurance of a 165-point certification process. or it isn't. it's either testing an array of advanced safety systems. or it isn't. it's either the peace of mind of a standard unlimited mileage warranty. or it isn't. for those who never settle, it's either mercedes-benz certified pre-owned. or it isn't. the mercedes-benz certified pre-owned sales event. now through march 1st. shop online or drop by your local dealer today. 1 in 2 kids is under hydrated. ♪
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we are already planning and implementing making a modified version of the vaccine that would ultimately be able to be directed specifically against the south african isolate, which is the most problematic of them all. so, on the one hand, things looking a bit better about plateauing, but on the other hand we can have some difficult times that we have to be prepared for. >> joining us now is dr. peter
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hotez, dean of the national school of tropical medicine of baylor college of medicine. dr. hotez, thank you very much for joining us tonight. what did we just hear dr. fauci suggesting that we need a new vaccine to deal with the south african variant? what does that mean for people who already have the vaccine that doesn't deal with that variant? >> well, so lawrence, well sort of. so, the -- so, we're also developing a recombinant, a pro teen vaccine that's being scaled to a billion doses in india right now with biologic e and being tested across india. so, it's clear that the existing vaccine in the long run won't be adequate for the south african variant. it'll give partial protection, some protection, to varying degrees. but we're going to have to make two vaccines.
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and so how do you handle that? what it means -- there's two options. one, you now administer a combination vaccine, what some people call a bivalent vaccine, or you move out the existing vaccine you have knowing that you still have some time and down the line you're going to give a boost corresponding to new south african variant. that's going to be the more common option. it's not terrible news. we still have time. but this is going to be something to watch very closely. but we're going to have new variants and the south african one looks different enough from the existing one that we're seeing lower level of protection. we saw this with the novavax report today that it gave 90% protection against the one it was designed for and only 50% to 60% for the new one. still okay but in the long run if you know this is going to become the dominant variant down the line we're going to have to
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make an additional one. >> so, the consumer end of the getting the vaccine is a wildly differing experience around the country. some people getting emails from their local hospitals saying, hey, come on and set up on appointment. it's really easy. others struggling, staying up until 3:00 in the morning hoping the internet traffic is down so they can find an appoint. . i've heard from people who are really thrilled and excited that they finally managed to get an appointment next week, and now they're learning the vaccine they'll be getting next week will not be good enough to deal with the south african varpt. if you get that first shot next week, when you go in for your second shot or somewhere down the road there's going to have to be another shot that will deal with the south african variant. >> so, the take home message, lawrence, is nothing changes in the immediate future. you want to go ahead, get your vaccine, get those two doses. but down the line, there may be a need for a third immunization,
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a boost. and if that boost is done, it may be against the south african variant. and just to keep everybody remember that we thought there was a pretty high likelihood we would have to give i third immunization down the line at some point because we had idea about the durability of the vaccines, especially the new technology vaccines. do they last three months, three years or 30 years. everyone was confident we were going to need a third immunization down the line anyway. and all we're really saying is that third immunization is going to have to be specifically directed at the south african variant. that's the scenario that's looking the most plausible, the one we're mostly in discussions with our vaccine developers. >> that is an invaluable update to vaccine news dr. peter hotez. thank you very much for joining us with that tonight. really appreciate it.
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>> my pleasure, lawrence. thanks. coming up, joe biden got an invaluable gift on inauguration day, the resignations of some federal judges. dahlia lugt wick joins us next. t one more bite! kraft. for the win win. ♪ ♪ ♪ smooth driving pays off. ♪ with allstate, the safer you drive the more you save. ♪ you never been in better hands. allstate. click or call for a quote today. cranky-pated: a bad mood related to a sluggish gut.
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on inauguration day, president biden got the most precious gift he is legally allowed to accept from victoria roberts. it was a resignation letter. victoria roberts is a federal judge in michigan who wrote her resignation letter on january 20th and ended it with this line, with respect, i congratulate you on your election as the 46th president of the united states. victoria roberts is one of the several federal judges who was waiting for donald trump to be out of the white house before e are tiring and allowing the president to choose replacement. some other federal judges sent
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their resignation letter to biden on or about inauguration day. the united states senate has never had a more important first year agenda of a president since 1933 when franklin roosevelt took office during the depths of the impeachment. yes, the senate will have an impeachment trial of donald trump. yes the senate will try to pass a covid relief package, dealing with climate change, passing a massive budget deal that will repeal the trump tax cuts for rich people which they haven't even started talking about yet, and the senate will have many less visible fights going on every day. but through it all every day, the democratic senate and the senate judiciary committee on the senate floor will be trying to deliver confirmations of the most important appointments joe biden can make, federal judges. joining us now is dahlia lithwick, senior editor and legal correspondent for
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slate.com and host of the podcast "amicus." thank you very much for joining us tonight. when i read victoria roberts' resignation letter and a few of the other, they're kind of playful. they're almost putting little hearts on them. it's like they're so thrilled that they can deliver this resignation to joe biden and give him this opportunity to make these appointments. and some of them, you know, are at an age where they might have liked resigning a few years ago but they waited. and the moment came on january 20th. >> it's true, lawrence. i think the only caveat to your greatest gift biden could have gotten is the other gift he got what was the senate, what was those two georgia seats. i think no matter how many judges retired, if he didn't have the senate this was going to be a massive fite fight. so, i think you're quite right. as soon as the ink was signed that those georgia seats were his and that the senate was his,
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i think you're going to see an immense number of judges step aside. and i wouldn't be surprised if you saw some bush judges, some moderate conservative republicans who have been just horrified, as horrified as the democrat appointees at what's happened to the court. >> well, yes, some of the recent resignations do include bush judges. some are clinton judges. but they clearly were waiting and they clearly wanted to see a president who they could trust make a responsible appointment. chuck schumer and the democrats in the senate judiciary committee i have to believe have learned the lesson of mitch mcconnell, which is run this like a high speed factory, get as many of these done as possible as fast as possible. >> i think so, lawrence. and i think you started with this really essential point which is that obama didn't do this. we know that obama decided in his first year not to expend
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capital on judges. he decided to do the economy. he decided to do the affordable care act. and boy are we living with the consequences of that? and so i think that understanding that it was a juggernaut and that a third of the bench -- it's extraordinary how successful donald trump and mitch mcconnell were at these lifetime appointees, how many circuits they completely flipped. i think if schumer and the dems haven't learned the lesson now that this is really essential number one, put it with all the other number ones, then i think we're going to be in trouble. >> when rachel talked to chuck schumer the other night, she brought up the presidential commission on the judiciary. joe biden has. bob bauer is going to be the chair of that, some other law professors have already been named. he'll be on it. it'll probably be a group, they don't know how many yet, who will consider a lot of things
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about the judiciary, including expanding the united states supreme court. chuck schumer wasn't eager to talk about that and was able to say to rachel quite honestly he will wait the six months or so it takes for that group to issue a report. what do you expect to be in a report like that? can we tell at this stage on the question of expanding the size of the supreme court? >> we don't know, as you said, even really who's on the commission. i think we know that at least one person, caroline frederickson, who's on the commission, has spoken positively about court expansion. we also know that bob bauer himself has talked about maybe term limits or other forms of serious court reform. so, i don't know. we may just get a kind of huge wish list of the 52 things you can do, jurisdiction stripping and term limits and all the
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other things you can do without a laser focus on court expansion, which is so controversial. i think we'll get a very, very comprehensive report. and then really the question is going to be, does biden -- given that he may not have the filibuster behind him, does he kind of go big or go small on this? and the hope is that he goes big. >> well, yeah, and at minimum there will be this scholarly document that will take us through the history of how we got to nine and why we've been stuck at nine for so long on the supreme court. and then that number didn't come from heaven. it was arbitrary and remains arbitrary. we're out of time on this for tonight but we'll have you back at a minimum when they issue that report and several times afterwards. coming up, thousands were arrested in russia for protesting the jailing of russian opposition leader alexei navalny. among those arrested were three
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here is secretary is -- secretary of state tony blinken, in his first press briefing today the. >> it's striking to me how concerned and maybe even scared the russian government seems to be of one man, mr. navalny. >> alexei navalny was immediately arrested after coming back to russia after a deadly poisoning that he said
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was put in place by putin, mr. navalny's brother, oheg was arrested and detained for 48 hours. russian police raided the homes of several of mr. navalny's allies. and this woman did not stop playing the piano when the police raided her home. ♪ ♪ russian protest has had a theatrical element when the women of pussy riot were arrested after performing an anti-putin song. their latest protest video, music video is called rage. it was filmed in st. petersburg where some of the people in the video were arrested for participating in it. the video will be released on
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monday. here is some of the video. ♪ ♪ joining us now is the founding member of pussy riot, nadya tolokonnikova, what does it mean when biden talks to putin about the poisoning of navalny, the white house notes on the phone call said that president biden talked to vladimir putin about the poisoning of alexei navalny, what affect does it have on -- on vladimir putin and russia? >> thank you for having me.
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and i must say that it's important for the international leaders to be involved in what is happening, in russia. it helps us because, we are fighting for democracy and international help helps us. putin is deeply scared of the international pressure. he may try to put stone face on himself and may try to appear as a person who does not care. in fact he deeply cares about what other leaders think of him. so, if it's joe biden, or angela merkel, it's good when they put pressure on him about political prisoners in russia. >> you told me yesterday that it's been an emotional time for you. one of your partners. masha was arrested and detained. i think she is still detained. we have video of her being
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arrested right there. do you know what her situation is now? >> it's deeply emotional to me because masha is arrested seriously for the first time since 2012. in 2012 we were arrested and put in isolator, in the same isolate er where she is currently. it's not one of the normal arrests that is happening with us every day in russia a. it's a serious arrest right now. it's a serious arrest with criminal charges and she is facing two years in jail. which is ultimately my deepest nightmare and i still up to this date, years after my release from prison, i have nightmares of me coming back on jail and this is a nightmare where masha lives right now. we don't know what's going to happen later in a day, we will hear more news. but it is likely unfortunately that masha will end up in jail again. >> you told me the first time we talked that one of the reasons why you didn't have to serve
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your full prison sentence, you does more than a year in a very difficult russian prison. which is a forced labor prison by the way. i mean, that is something that we could talk about at length, what you have to go through when you are in one of the prisons. the reason you got out was because of pressure put on russia, and put on putin directly by foreign leaders. >> it incredibly helps. i cannot stress it enough. right before our release, there was games coming. so, the reason that putin had to release us, he did not want to have bad picture in the international media. so, the more reaction we have in european, and american media, the more chances that alexei navalny and everyone else arrested in the last ten days will be released. >> i know you are friendly with alexei navalny and his wife, whose home was raided as well by
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the russian police. you visited him, i know, when he was in the hospital. talk about the bravery it takes for him and for you to repeatedly confront vladimir putin, knowing that prison is the very likely outcome of confronting him? >> on the 17th of january, when navalny sat on the airplane and went to russia, he committed a radical act of political bravery. it was one of the most important political actions lately, because he is showing us that all it takes to be effective in opposing the corrupt government is just to refuse the fear. he and his team, because it's not just navalny, it's the whole group of amazely talented people that are standing behind his back and the russia who doesn't want to take the corruption anymore. it just takes a little thing. you need to control your fear
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and then later, the government will not be able to do anything with you. and you have seen in the last couple of months, how alexei navalny out maneuvered the police in every turn. even after being jailed, he released an amazing movie about putting putin's palace on the black sea, which has 100 million views on youtube. >> thank you very much for joining us tonight, it's invaluable for americans and for our audience to hear your voice on this, really appreciate it. >> thank you, lawrence. >> that is tonight's last word, the 11th hour with brian williams starts now. ♪ ♪ and good evening once again, day 9 of the biden administration and the state of our nations such that the fortress may soon be made

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