tv Deadline White House MSNBC February 3, 2021 1:00pm-3:00pm PST
hi there, everyone, we come on the air as one of the most decisive moments for the gop gets under way. it's not to determine whether the gop heads down a dangerous path or gains its soul. that ship has sailed. based on the warnings from the republicans in the senate, it's clear they all know they're in dangerous territory already. the question now is whether the gop, now known as thanks to reporting in the "new york times," to be under scrutiny for
ties to extremists linked to the insurrection at the capitol still has room for liz cheney, a conservative stalwart, who had the audacity to hold donald trump accountable for the incitement of the riots in january 6th. also on the line today, who will have the fortitude to go on the record against the real threat, a conspiracy theorist in its own ranks. right now the republican conference is behind the closed doors ahead on a vote tomorrow to remove congresswoman greene from her committee appointments. a woman who is dubious about whether the attacks on 9/11 were real, endorsed calls to assassinate barack obama, nancy pelosi, and hillary clinton. house republican leaders kevin mccarthy, for one, is reportedly
feeling torn at this hour between cheney, a former state department official, the daughter of conservative former vice president dick cheney on one side, and a member of congress, claire mccaskill refers to as the q aknown lady. reports of what went down inside the room. mccarthy tried to give greene options, according to a person familiar with the talks. she could denounce q anoun, apologize publicly for espokesing hurtful conspiracy, and denounce violence against the democrats, or she could remove herself from the committees, or face her peers. republicans publicly warning what's at stake. >> i think we should nothing to do with marjorie taylor greene and think we should repudiate the things she said, and move away from her. i think our party has to make it
very clear that she does not represent us in any way. our big tent is not large enough to both accommodate conservatives and cooks. >> she doesn't represent our party. i don't want her as the face of our party. i think this is a great time for us to really talk about what we want to see in the upcoming years, and continue to build. we don't need people promoting violence or anything like that. >> the journal writing this, quote. if they punish cheney, while saying nothing about greene, it will deserve a longer time in the wilderness. the main goal of the house minority is to be the majority. in 2022, republicans should have an excellent chance, but don't squander if, if they purge serious members like cheney, and let themselves be defined by conspiracy theorists and parkland truthers.
where the basis of support comes from. >> reporter: during the pandemic, the qanon movement appears to be gaining a lot of followers. can you talk about what you think about that and what you have to say about people who are following this movement right now? >> i don't know much about the movement other than i understand they like me very much. which i appreciate. i've heard these are people who love or country. i nothing about it. i know they are very much against pedophilia. they fight it very hard, but i know nothing about it. >> they belief it's a fake -- run by the deep state. >> i'll tell you what i know about. i know about antifa and the radical left and how violent they are and how vicious they are, and i know how they're burning down cities run by democrats. >> qanon is nuts and real
leaders call them conspiracy theories. >> you may be right. can i be honest? he may be right, but i don't know about qanon. >> you do know. >> no, i don't know. no, i don't know. tell me all about this it. let's waste a whole show. the lasting stain of trump is where we start today. former congresswoman donna i havers is back. alexi mccannen, and my fred matthew dowd, and found are of the group country over party. we'll also start at the hill with our msnbc correspondent garrett haake. what is going on up there.
>> reporter: a resolution would allow greene's committee appointments to be taken away from her. there's been a pretty serious negotiating process, with democrat hopes that kevin mccarthy and republicans would handle the greene problem themselves, they would somehow find a way to act, to punish her, to get her to apologize and repudiate her past views. that hasn't happened. if republicans aren't willing to act, democrats are. when i've heard from democratic lawmakers, you know, of all the
crazy things greene has set, the 9/11 conspiracy theories, it's the endorsement of political violence, has them saying you can make any slippery slope, pros argument, this has to be nipped in the bud. political violence is far too fresh in the minds of everyone who lives and works up here after january 6th. it's too connected. you cannot have someone running around in the has of congress who has endorsed violence against other members. that just won't fly. that's what leads us to this incredibly defining moment for republicans to decide, are these going to handle this problem on their own, or more concerned about liz cheney and her breaking of one house republican rule, which is thousand shalt not cross donald trump. >> why is liz cheney in trouble? for those of us who live in reality.
there are ten republicans in the house who voted to impeach donald trump. why is liz cheney in so much trouble? >> because she is the star voice of the impeachment managers' case. >> but that's not her fault. >> reporter: well, no, but it's what she's going to be punished for potentialer h clear, unequivocal denunciation of the former president's conduct up to and on january 6th is probably more direct and more forceful s. and because she is everything a small-c conservative is supposed to stand for rings more clearly to a lot of people on that side of the aisle. it makes her vote so powerful and her voice so important on that one issue. she's everything that conservatives like, you moe, mitch mcconnell, who is nobody's idea of a resistance hero, to come out and strongly backing liz cheney as a voice that needs to be in the political discussion right now, the same sort of conservative credentials
that makes her condemnation so dangerous to those who want him to continue to be the face of this party now and into the future. >> matthew, if it weren't so scary and trainingic and did say so helpful, that they're torn with liz cheney and the qanon woman, it would be funny that liz cheney is the one who is in trouble. >> this seems it's like gra knoll that -- fruits, flakes and nuts are part of this. this should be a layup. any other moment in history should be a layup. of course you would take her off the committees, get rid of this person. they're not even on the same basketball course in the midst of this.
marjorie taylor greene is the symptom of a bigger problem, that's why it's taken them days, weeks, even months to deal with this. she represents a significant portion of the republican base today. the qanon is not some insignificant part. it is a significant part of the base. when you have that, and that's why they seem compromised between it, so they may strip her from committees. they haven't solved the problem at all. my guess is she goes back down to georgia and takes it like a badge of honor among her qanon peers, which is what happened in congress, in washington, d.c., but there's a fundamental problems that the republicans still seem to be unwilling to deal with, a part of their base that wanted to full any election, and use the political theories in political discourse. they have as of yet, not dealt with that part of the problem. well, i mean, matthew, i
think it's also so tied into what they have ahead of them, which is an opportunity to convict donald trump for inciting the insurrection at the capitol. these two things seemed linked, and they're linked by the violence. i want to read you something that our friend greg sargent wrote. it's also said that republicans can't condemn greene because she's aligned with trump. what binds them? among other things, both generally believe the trump movement should be fully prepared to resort to political violence against their opponents. how do we get to a point where condemning people who don't just set sort of promote demonstrably false theories about known events in recent history, but condone violence specifically?
>> you can't make a deal with a drug cartel, right? you can't make the deal unless the drug cartel stops producing drugs and stops trying to get people addicted to the drugs. the republican party right now, because of these conspiracy theories and all these things they pushed, they want to come together and work with the democrats and work with joe biden and do all of this and say, ignore everything that's happened before. you and i i think have talked about this before, we have -- the calls to unity and calls to reconciliation, i'm of the mind it doesn't matter how donald trump gets punished. they're going to stand by donald trump unbelievably in the midst of this, in them trying to overturn an election and pushing an insurrection. we've had the time in history where where he didn't do this before, that was reconstruction.
abraham lincoln had a vision, and then was killed. the reason we got into a civil war was because of a number of states, about a third of the country wanted to nullify the election, baas they didn't like where he was headed. because we didn't follow through on reconstruction, didn't follow through and demand truth, demand accountability, it took 100 years -- 100 years before the vision of abraham lincoln, that all men are created equal and all women are created equal to get to the 1960s with the civil rights act and the voting rights act. you can draw a straight line, noil, with our inability to deal with that between emmett till, the lynchings, jimmy lee jackson, the death of med garr evers, the death of martin luther king, the death of the four girls in the church, and i
would add the death of heather hyer in charlottesville. there's a segment that believes all men and women are not created equal, so therefore they believe they can maintain anything that they believe what they think as real america. we've seen this before. all of these jumps to accountability -- i mean, all these jump to say reconciliation skips over the part of truth and accountability. >> you know, donna, i mean, matthew has widened the lens on this, but it doesn't get enough voice and doesn't make our way into the conversations, but it should. it's this idea that this isn't just disinformation in a vacuum. it's disinformation about who we are. it's a truth that they don't want to look at, and this whole alternate reality is meant to re-create a time that no longer is. it's completely incompatible.
there's no way to fold marjorie taylor greene into the united states congress. there's no place for her for the rep party, or there is no republican party. they are mutually exclusive, qanon and the gop. >> well, i think that's absolutely true, nicolle. matthew is right, that there is a third of the country that has remained constant from 1860 until now that doesn't believe in equality. endorsing and supporting marjorie taylor greene is just one more piece of it. i cannot -- maybe i can believe how absolutely weak kevin mccarthy is, that he is weighs as though they are, you know, a truth to be weighed that there's an equivalence between liz
cheney remaining in the fold and marjorie taylor greene being excluded. the fact he has to wrestle with this is so problematic for republicans. this is the bright-line test, and kevin mccarthy has to meet that. it seems like he already has and he will choose marjorie taylor greene and trump for the future of the republican party. >> alexi, i want to play you something from ted deutsche, because it's powerful. we're old enough to remember when simply being a parkland truther would be enough to get you kicked out of the caucus. let's talk about this. >> if breen peddles conspiracy theories that radicalize people online, these theories are not just deluded, they also advocate violence. they promote harassment.
they dehumanize and devalue large swaths of our population based on race and on faith. last year fbi director wray testified that conspiracy theories like the ones ms. greene promotes are among the most serious threats to american security. ms. greene is now a member of congress, one who has publicly spouted -- publicly spouted, racist anti-semitic, islam ophobic garbage, deied mass shootings' very occurrence. i have cried with the families of parkland, and i have grieved with them. and in my wallet to this day carries a sheet of paper with the names of their loved ones so
that they are never forgotten in congress. >> you knows, alexi, these moments get our attention because thee so recall and powerful. , and the parkland shooting, when it was going on, it's impossible to explain house offensive it must be to these families and these communities that there's a member in congress -- i know this shtick on the right is to say there's no thought police, no free speech, i don't care about the arguments, there is no right for this kind of -- i don't know if hate speech is the right word, but talk about the kinds of arguments that democrats and opponents of her saying on these committees are making. >> yeah, you know, i will just point out one thing, nicolle,
while marjorie taylor greene's rhetoric is obviously reprehensible, violent and dangerous, there's a spectrum of bad within the gop. it's not just marjorie taylor greene. let's think back to last month when over 66% of the house republican caucus voted to overturn the results of a democratic election, because they decided to side with then president trump over the american people, and they did that after the insurrection of the u.s. capitol. we see folks down ballot, like sean parnell, a candidate in pennsylvania, who has refused to concede the election he lost, because he's still peddling unsubstantiated claims of widespread voters fraud. this was happening in state legislatures, in gubernatorial republicans in washington state. it's happening across the country. i was just texing with a republican strategist and operative who works on congressional races around the
country, and he said the people don't understand the more attention greene gets, the stronger she'll be with the peers and the base who want to see this type of politics and rhetoric continue within the party. democrats, as we have seen today, are probably forcing reps to go on the record tomorrow, if this is what happens with the vote, to really put them on the record to see who stands with this type of governing, who stands with this type of marjorie taylor greene type of republican, but it's not just her. they are on the record doing a number of things showing that they are comfortable with donald trump being the leader of their party still, and they are comfortable with this conspiracy theory lifestyle infecting the dna of their party ahead of these 2022 mid terms which will only contribute to the pay the party moves forward. >> matthew, i want to give you the last word and another image from the capitol that i referenced with garrett. this isn't about political violence in a vacuum, the threat or fear of it.
this is the reality of it. this is office sicknick, who laid in state today up in the capitol today. do you think for any of them, there's any shame? do you think they just look at him and the ceremony and think, ah, it won't happen to me, either because they can't contemplate that the threat is real or they're close enough to some of the people who carried out the attack? what do you think they think when there's a memorial service in the capitol, which is still a crime seen for a capitol officer who died protecting them? >> as you know, i'm a very hopeful person and i have tried to give people the benefit of the doubt. i'm hope everly the lack of empathy virus that donald trump infected washington with and brought to washington hasn't so infected them that they -- the probably is they may be moved by it, just like they're moved by a school shooting, or moved by some other tragedy in our
country, but then they never do anything about it. i would at one more thing to this. this goes to the democrats and us in the media, you, i and everyone else why it's important on this moment. donald trump is unlikely to get quiblgted and is unlikely to get the ultimate punishment, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't go through with this, speak truth and understand we have to stand for what you're country stands for. if we fought every battle thinking we had to win that battle, we never would have had a civil rights movement. they lost one after another after another after another court fight, but what they did was speak truth and speak to justice, and speak to what our country was founded on, which is equal justice for all. ultimatelied american public was moved and politicians was moved. so though people may feel like everything is going on as a fait accompli, it is important in this moment to follow through and hold people's feet to the
fire and speak truth, because we may lose this battle, but the war for our country and what it stands for is going to be a long, long process, and this is part of opening people's eyes to what's going on. >> matthew dowd, so nice to have you for these conversations. thank you very much. garrett haake, i'm going to puts you on the spot. please race back to this spot over the next two hours if anything changes with any updates for us. >> reporter: yes, ma'am. >> thank you both. don and alexi are sticking around. how do you stop the xred of lies? how the threat of huge, huge financial repercussions is making some in the right-wing media ecosystem change their tune. but don't get too excited. there's still plenty of lies going around. plus president biden today telling his democratic colleagues to go big and do
gnats on covid -- go fast on covid. and with there be a game-changing vaccine available soon? one that could also help stop the virus's spread? we'll talk about that, all those stories and mo are when "deadline: white house" continues after a quick break. don't go anywhere. continues after a quick break. don't go anywhere.
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much. mike, you're talking about machines that we at increasesmax have not been able to verify any of those allegations while there were clear evidence of some -- the election results were certified and newsmax accepts the results as legal and final. the courts have also supported that view. >> right, so you -- wait -- >> you're talking about cancel culture, if you will. we don't want to re-litigate the allegations that you're making, mike. >> wait, wait, wait. >> producers, can we get out of here, please in we at newsmax have not veriied in that. >> might have, everybody, hold on a second. mike, mike, hold on one second. let's talk about what's happening -- >> you're trying to cans the my
company and myself. isn't that incredible? the guy on the right is the pillow guy, who was planning the coup until the very end. the anchors works at newsmax. they were trying to stop him in spreading baseless claims, you know why? dominion has threatened to sue them. the network, along with fox news and oam, have faced allegations for spreading disinformation. dominion has already filed a massive $1.3 billion suit against rudy and indicated there may be more lawsuits too come on our show when the spokes ma'am would not rule out a possible -- we asked newsmax for a
response --. let's speak with the cofounder of the lincoln project, rick wilson. there was a deep pleasure i felt watching someone shut down the liars, because the lies have resulted in deaths, but i wonder what you think about the fact that it's only a company threatening massive fines than getting them to bad down. >> it takes a billion three lawsuit to scare these guys into not being lying propagandists, and pumping ute the slurry of
conspiracy theories, fake news, and just pure chaos into our system. you know, watching that interview, you know, mike lindell has been rewarded by television coverage for the last six, eight months over this crazy set of theories, and when you're too nuts for newsbacks, -- newsmax, you're too nuts. watching their eyes. i'm sure chris redding offstage was going, off, off. he was steering them into another billion of legal jeopardy. >> i great. first he talked to his producers on the air, which we all have been known to do in our desperate ours, and then he got up and left. but work backwards from that. a capitol police officer was
honored today for dying in the insurrection and i haven't seen much of a tone or tenor in that crisis. >> i thought the most outrageous is officer sicknick, as he lies in a place of honor, we have people like kevin mccarthy, who led a caucus, who came out as his boddia was still warm, and still voted to back the ludicrous conspiracy theory that trump had won this election, still stood up and said the election was invalid. the idea that kevin mccarthy would dare to walk into that rotunda and express hi crocodile tears at the life of an officer being lost is the tip of the iceberg. it's supported by an enormous media enterprise that feeds a constant source of lies and conspiracy theories. it's something we have to address as a company in a really
big hurry. >> the lincoln project is basically making economic sanction and economic punishment for companies that support disinformation part of its strategy. >> sure. what does that look like around news organizations? >> i think we haven't gotten to the financial underpinnings of the -- but fox is dropping in ratings, it's going to go more crazy than less crazy and more aggressive than less, into this zone of conspiracy and lunacy, and the lower-tier bottom feeders are like the carp that live outside of a sewer pipe. they'll sit there fat and happy for a while, but always will be disgusting. that's where all these other emergent sort of alternate-right
creep-right outlets will be. >> i just wanted to say that exact point is what's going to continue to encourage congressional republicans to follow in this path they want. that's where their folks are. >> yes. >> we saw before the election fox news viewers going to all these right-wing places where they feel safe, because they couldn't possibly deal with reality. it's so dangerous, but so rich to see newsmax of all places which has peddles this information, had trump so-called lawyers, who weren't good at what they were doing, on to perpetuate the lies and now they're saying, no, no, it's too much. it's way too let for them to step out. they have helped to perpetuate this culture in giving people a new home to go to, and it's way
too late for them to step back from this. >> you now, donna, former senator bob corker was here yesterday, tried to put out and posit this 1996 theory that, you know, both sides sort of veer toward pin in their entertainment arenas in the evening. well, only one side provided the content for the insurrectionist. only one side has a primetime anchor who is defending marjorie taylor greene. the idea that opinion has to be detached from facts only happens on the right. it only happens on fox and exam even when you have people who aren't giving safe harbor to marjorie taylor greene, you still have an entire political party who isn't there yet in condemning the enablers of that entire movement, that entire sort of turn to violence to carry out their political
objections. >> nicolle, only one side is competing for the crazy conspiracy theorists in -- both in the media and in the congress. i mean, look at the fracture that's that's happening in the republican party on the hill, where you have the competition for the crazies going on, and then the same thing is happening with the media, where fox and newsmax and oan are all competing for the conspiracy audience. there is no end here. they can't simply disavow themselves, because that is their audience, that is their home. it's why marjorie taylor greene is the face of the new republican party. >> rick wilson, thank you for spending time with us today. thank you, my friend.
act fast. biden and the new democratically controlled consequence took action last night that they should pass the package without republican support, if needed. senate majority leader chuck schumer says democrats must hold firm, even as they pursue bipartisanship. >> we want to do it bipartisan, but we must be strong. we cannot dawdle, delay or dilute. we will work together as one, working with our republican friends when we can. joins us is matt pfizer. matt, take us inside the push
for the president's version of the covid relief. can you put the interest in bipartisanship -- is it like the secondmost? obviously -- >> increasingly you're sees the white house posture that they will try to work with republicans if they can, but will push forward if they must. i think biden is doing almost a dual-track approach right now. you saw him on monday meeting and talking with republicans. i think he's willing to listen to them, but moving forward budget reconciliation is where they're headed. they are willing to push forward on that avenue if they need to. you're seeing him today rally to keep democrats together. i think part of that, frankly,
progressives were a bit nervous, seeing biden on monday with republicans. there's a lot of worry of a repeat of 2009, where things got watered down more than they should. you're seeing the party today really behind this package. that doesn't mean republicans won't support it, but they are moving toward a path they can do it with only democratic support. sources in the white house i've talked to, do feel like they have the upper hand. the pollsing is in its favor, and they feel like republicans will be convinced to vote for the proposal even without them having to change what they do have right now. i would think in education piece in it would be very difficult to
vote against when he talked to progressives ahead of this meeting, they were saying look, it's fine, we still think things are moving in our direction, but congresswoman jayapal got information that she thought the $15 minimum wage piece wouldn't be included. that's something that president biden still supports, but she got wind of it and she and her staffer called the white house and asked if president bideng with progressives and we have your back. progressives feel like they've been good-faith negotiators. they know they can't get everything they want, but it's not just the jayapals in the
house, but bernie sanders, deploying what he destroyed to me as an inside/outside strategy, talk about white house officials in private and talk to the parliamentarian about what progressives want to see done. they've been working with biden. of, if you'll remember, before the election. they have a months-long history of finding common ground and they won't let republicans stand in their way. >> and bernie sanders was part of the group at the white house today. matt, you have some reporting in the paper today about a rush to make their appointments to the openings on the federal court as well as some of what trump frankly did aggressively and with great effect. with the prospect they could
lose control, biden intends to move quickly to fill openings that arise on courts affecting significant policies, including environmental regulations, gun laws and -- top officials say they're placing far more emphasis on judicial nominations and plan to fill slots faster than democrats in the past. >> nicolle, this will be the next sort of big push from the white house. obama did take a while before he started making judicial nominations, left a large amount of vaccination candidacies that trump filled, and that was a big part of his legacy, with mcconnell working with him to fill a lot of positions. biden has learned from that. he's the longtime chairman of the senate judiciary committee. ron klain worked on judicial name nations under obama and
clinton. there's more than a third of the circuit court that's eligible for justices to step down, and there's a lot of judges who were waiting until biden took office so he would have the opportunity to fill their seats. so i think that's something that will be a about ig push by this white house and they're prepared to move forward and put biden's own stamp on the judiciary in a way that his senate career did, quite frankly, overseeing a lot of senate confirmation of judges. now he's having the opportunity himself to fill a lot of these positions, which they are preparing to do. >> i have always been surprised that republicans put so much more emphasis on it, but it's the president's own history and ron klain's to make sure this is a front burner issue. thank you both, and donna is
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astrazeneca not only protects people from getting sick but substantially slows the transmission of the virus itself. researchers have found that the vaccine could cut down transmission by nearly two-thirds. the oxford astrazeneca vaccine is still in its trial stages here in the u.s. and the company could seek emergency use authorization as early as next month. joining our conversation, msnbc public health analyst, dr. erlin with the disaster preparedness still here. dr. redletter. one of my colleagues was doing stories about the astrazeneca vaccine. at the very beginning of the pandemic and my question for you is, are we finding that each vaccine maybe does something different because i know there are some flaws with this vaccine that's not necessarily as effective in older people. if you saw it coming here, who would get it? >> what's happening, nicole, we
have three or four vaccines available. some are better than others in terms of stopping transmission or dealing with these variant mutations that are really troublesome and worrisome but the fact of the matter is, i think we'll have pfizer, moderna, johnson & johnson and astrazeneca and collectively, they will give us a huge amount of potential supply of vaccine that could be ready by early summer to mid summer which is all great news. the issue of whether astrazeneca is better at stopping transmission looks to be true, but they're still in the testing phase. at the end of the day, if we have the vaccine or a collection of vaccines, plus we have people following the guidelines for making sure that we're doing the non-pharmaceutical, the masks, distancing, so on, we should, with all of these measures, be in a pretty good place this
summer, except, and the except is if people do not follow the guidelines and do not remove their masks, so to speak, and if they're resistant to getting vaccines, that could slow down the whole process and nicole, what i fear is that if we don't follow the rules and the guidelines, we could end up with not a one year course before we're done with this but maybe a two year course and i think nobody wants that and we really have to pay attention to what needs to be done now but the vaccine news is good. >> dr. redlener, i've been wondering really about the ability to get into as many communities as possible the vaccine. we've talking about urban communities and communities of color. i wonder if you have a comment about the prospects for the johnson & johnson vaccine and the ability to roll that out, say, at a local cvs because it doesn't require the storage requirements and what that could mean to these communities.
>> plus, it's a one dose situation with regular refrigeration, it works. there's a problem with inequities, which communities are impacted the most by covid-19 and it happens to be black and brown and other so-called minority communities. they've been left behind. they've been much harder hit by the pandemic and it's something that we're going to have to address in a deeper way, but in the meantime, we need messengers to connect with the communities to establish trust that the vaccines are safe and we need a very focused effort on getting to those communities and the johnson & johnson vaccine really does that trick in a much better way than the other vaccines that are out there, donna, but this is something we're going to have to address. i'm really concerned about the inequities and disparities and
people getting harder hit and also less access to the treatments that are needed and less ability to somehow reestablish trust in these communities but i think it's coming. i think the biden team has a lot of interest in this challenge and will be, in fact, making huge efforts to shut down the inequities that should not be there in the first place. >> it's an important next phase. it's trust and it's ability to get the vaccine distribution centers into places where especially older americans go into senior centers and to health clinics. i know it's something we'll be talking about in the months ahead. dr. redlener, donna edwards, thank you so much for spending some time with us this hour. the next hour of "deadline white house" starts after a quick break. don't go anywhere. we are just getting started. bre. don't go anywhere. we are just getting started.
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brian and his family were made to pay such a high price for his devoted service in the capitol was a senseless tragedy. one that we are still grappling with. >> with your permission, may we be worthy to carry brian in our hearts. we will never forget. each day, when members enter the capitol, this temple of democracy, we will remember his sacrifice and then others that day who fought so hard to protect the capitol and the congress. >> hi again, everyone. it's 5:00 in the east. leaders of both congressional
chambers paying tribute today to capitol police officer brian sicknick who died from injuries he sustained while physically engaging with protesters during the insurrection four weeks ago today. officer sicknick is the fifth private citizen in history to lie in honor of the rotunda. it's a powerful symbol honoring the fallen officer in the same building he died defending. today's solemn ceremony, the chance for congress and the rest of the country to reflect on the suffering and loss of life incurred on january 6th. underscoring the need to hold those involved to account, accountability for individuals who participated in the insurrection as well as those who incited it. which is exactly what 370 democratic congressional aides called for in a rare personal letter making a plea to senators to convict donald trump in next week's impeachment trial. they write this, quote. many of us attended school in the post-columbine era and were
trained to respond to active shooter situations in our classrooms. as the mob smashed through capitol police barricades, broke doors and windows, and charged into the capitol with body armor and weapons, many of us hid behind chairs and under desks or barricaded ourselves in offices. others watched on tv and frantically tried to reach bosses and colleagues as they fled for their lives. on january 6th, the former president broke america's 230 year legacy of the peaceful transition of power when he incited a mob to disrupt the counting of electoral college votes. six people died. a capitol police officer, one of our coworkers who guards and greets us every day, was beaten to death. as congressional employees, we don't have a vote on whether to convict donald trump for his role in inciting the violent attack at the capitol, but our senators do. and for our sake, and the sake of the country, we ask that they vote to convict the former president and bar him from ever
holding office again. the conviction is far from certain, as republican senators look poised to acquit. last week, we saw all but five vote against even holding the trial. he said it wasn't constitutional to convict a former president and mitch mcconnell, although he blamed trump for spreading the lies that led to the mob storming the capitol is reportedly at this hour unlikely to convict. politico writes this, quote. mcconnell has done little to hide his annoyance with the president but allies he's unlikely to make a strong break with trump now. his speech assigning blame to trump, he said nothing to his colleagues about trump other than referring to his contacts with the former president's legal team, said one senator who attends meetings with martin luther king attends meetings with martin luther kin mcconnell. but the threat of violence and anger fueled by donald trump remains.
the very same group that president trump told to stand back and stand by, remember that? the proud boys? well, today, they were added to the canadian government's list of terrorist organizations. canada becoming the first country to do so and notes, quote, the pivotal role the proud boys members played on january 6th. a nation divided on the way forward after the insurrection is where we begin this hour with some of our favorite reporters and friends. amy stoddard, associate editor and columnist for real clear politics is back, and also back with us, john hileman, national affairs analyst and host and executive producer of showtime's the circus and host of the hell and high water podcast from the recount. we're going to have to add author to your new book and all your stuff. and carroll linnic msnbc
contributor. let's start with you, carol. i asked matthew this hour but i wonder if your reporting indicates how members are walking around without shame and without feeling disgraced when a former capitol police officer is honored in the building that they refuse to hold donald trump accountable for inviting his supporters to come and attack. >> i think it's an amazing question about responsibility and holding people to account. the behavior continues unabated and now reached this incredible level on january 6th. you had members of congress and the senate scampering for their lives.
let's not forget what you read, they never speak up and that somebody has got to do something about it. the republicans were equally outraged and despondent about what happened. there were people who work for mitch mcconnell who were disgusted by the experience that they had and the fear they felt. we interviewed some of those people for a story that we wrote the day after the siege, but ultimately, politics is politics and republicans still have great fear of donald trump and great love for the base of voters who support him. the millions of voters who rally to his side and view him as their leader, messianic or not, their leader. >> john heilemann, the piece of
it, i can't wrap my brain around most of it but the piece of it i can't struggle the most is the embrace of violence that right now today, as of this hour, the republican party stands for political violence because that is what donald trump incited and against accountability for the incitement of violence because that's what liz cheney did. that's her crime. that's why they're considering stripping her of her leadership position. what does a party do? how do you function? these 45 republican senators who voted against the constitutionality of impeaching a former president, that was like something they googled. that's not some set in stone legal theory do you think this is locked in? >> hi, good to see you as always. >> hi. >> the whole trump era where
everybody but i don't think it's so much about love of the base but the first part, just a party that moral and philosophy bankruptcy and able to seize the party that was already shattered in those ways that got there. everyone in the party lives in fear of what it's become so i think it's fear and the fear continues to be, care more about their jobs. but holding power. care more about that and many of
these members objected to things trump said and what he said, confronted with the chance chases to make about whether to care something more than their own future and the own future in the sense that if they feared doing something that would annoy not just trump but but capitulating. they forget how to do anything but capitulating. they see people on this program and see with clarity what you just laid out that by doing what they're doing currently, they're on the side of the mob, on the side of political violence, on the side of insurrection and on the side of nihilism and anarchy and thuggishness and autocracy. it's clear but they've gotten so
habituated to, what will the cost be if i embrace the clarity and just do the right thing? the cost will be, i'll lose some votes and they've decided that losing votes matters to them more than anything else. it's pathetic, sad and why the republican party has been rendered a pile of ashes on the ground or something worse. >> i keep asking about shame, hileman, because it's clear if you have none, you can do a lot of things in the short-term, right? so if you have no shame, you can lock yourself in an office, barricade yourself, shut yourself in the door and then two hours later, go out and vote to overturn the most secure election in american history. if you have no shame, you can avert your eyes while parkland truther walks in your miss. if you had no shame, you can
have told these lies about trump for four years. he's out of the picture. he's basically deplatformed at mar-a-lago and you can still say you're afraid of him but i don't buy that anymore. capitulating to whom? trump's gone. >> to voters. >> they're deciding to stand with the kinds of people that canada just named domestic terrorists, why? >> nicole, that's not they're no longer afraid of donald trump but marjorie taylor greene. not the person but the people those people represent and again, i just say, they look at marjorie taylor greene is a mini me of donald trump. i don't believe that most members of the house republican caucus are qanon believers. i don't think they are parkland truthers or think that sandy hook didn't happen but so afraid that if they come out and just take the obvious thing that this
was obviously should not be on any committees, they should do the right thing here,primaried. that's how base and pathetic it is. if i did the right thing, i would annoy a bunch of voters, the tens of millions of voters who believe joe biden is not a legitimate president, the election was stolen. all the same thing and the personal consequences for them is they might lose their job, so they decide that in that instance, that they care about nothing else other than that and to your point about shame, i mean, how much shamelessness is required to honor officer sicknick as they all claim to do and not draw the obvious inference that you can't honor officer sicknick and then turn around and say that liz cheney should be driven out of the republican party or driven out of leadership for voting to impeach donald trump for his role in this riot, in this
insurrection? there's no intellectual case for it. it's merely like, some voters in my district would be upset if i don't do the things i'm supposed to do to stay good with them. it's craven, cowardice and shameless. >> there are movies made for children with more simple plot lines than a bad guy inciting a lethal insurrection against a castle many children's movies or government installation. it's not a complicated, it's a direct line. trump said he had won for two months. he whipped them up into a frenzied rage. he then held the tailgate party before the game started and the game was to hang mike pence and storm the capitol and shoot nancy pelosi and tragically, a police officer died trying to stop them from carrying out what trump sent them to do.
where is the equivocation on holding the incitement that donald trump obviously performed in public, made sure there were cameras there until everyone was up on it. why is there any equivocation about holding them accountable? >> can i say, there's something worrisome. what john said, so stunning when you think about the fear but also the desire to hold on to the job. the reason that so many voters believe that biden is an illegitimate president is because all of these people who are afraid and won't tell hem the truth. going to war with saddam hussein.
if everyone were to join together and tell the truth, it might have an impact on this that members are so afraid of losing. >> carol, mitt romney made that point the day of the insurrection. is there an indication anyone other than mitt romney is advocating as a policy? they can do that by 6:00 tonight. that could be done in an hour and i bet it would go a long way toward reducing the threat that we all face. >> he can snap his fingers and every single member would agree to do what he said. he really could and he's made a choice, despite, thinks donald trump cost him the senate. donald trump is the reason he didn't win in georgia. he let the president off the leash and continued to embark
and embark to the whole back patio. >> this is really something so horrible to watch because we know, to impeach the president, holding him accountable. they're going to set a precedent for insurrection. they're going to tell the democratic party elect a liar. a separate branch on the check as the executive. they're completely nullifying
the tools of the impeachment. last year with a trial with no witnesses and again this year about an insurrection. the voters want to take to the democrats and the media and any quote capitulation whether that's to your leadership or the truth or accountability for something like an insurrection. so marjorie greene knows that and right away, him or her. talking or planning visits and she holds that over kevin mccarthy.
as a campus, a family and a community. so the idea another to watch what's happened and to go down before they go to the floor. being rude and disrespectful for mutual safety treating this like it's not an honor and a privilege to be in this place where they're all supposed to protect each other and obey formalities for decorum. mccarthy, again, treating it like they're just going to a bathroom at mcdonald's.
with donald trump and fellow congressmen and that's trask what the congress is going to, but two capital police officers and taken their lives. no, the senators are not going to listen to these letters from these democratic staffers, but think of the trauma that the staffers are trying to convey in the letter and what the trauma that the entire campus and community is going through and the capitol police are going through. and kevin mccarthy knows that and many of the members who voted to decertify in the house and against impeachment know about to quit know that. >> put in much better words and ways than i could have. the only thing i'd say, all
three of you, at least john used the word capitulation. the voters view it as capitulation because republicans turned democrats in the media into enemies of the people and the state. so i think the whole idea of capitulation is also the frame that the other side wants to play by and i think part of, to carol's point, you decrease the risk, you decrease the risk of violence. you go a long way towards deradicalizing folks if you tell them the truth. carol leonnig, thank you so much. we're glad to have you and ab and heilemann are sticking around. as we've discussed, the republican party struggling over what should be a lay-up. what to do about the qanon woman. some of them going through absurd contortions when faced with that question. more on that story next n faced with that question more on that story nex
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. call it the gop's marjorie taylor greene problem. as we've been discussing, the party's willingness to keep a qanon supporting conspiracy theory peddling lawmaker in its congressional caucus is making things very awkward for some lawmakers. here's lindsey graham. >> going to georgia. very pleasant experience. are these postings accurate? i want to hear from her before i judge what to do about her, i want to know what the facts are. if these aren't accurate or
manipulated, i'd like to know that and if they are, do you still hold these beliefs? >> lindsey graham, she might not be qanon. she might have been hacked. perhaps nothing tops his dodge from alabama senator tommy who said, i haven't even looked at what all she's done. i'd have to hold back a statement on that. travel in this weather, it's been a little rough looking at any news or whatever. end quote. now house republican leader kevin mccarthy finally speaking out on marjorie taylor greene condemning her support of conspiracy theories but objecting to moving by democrats to punish her. past comments from and endorsed by marjorie taylor greene on school shootings, political violence and anti-semitic conspiracy theories do not represent the value or beliefs of the house republican conference. i offered majority leader hoyer a path to address these concerns.
instead of doing that, the democrats choose to raise the temperature by unprecedented step of the party and quote, what a bunch of hogwash. mitch mcconnell and mitt romney and joni ernst called her loons. amy and john, this is shameless even for a shameless person like kevin mccarthy. john? >> it's ridiculous. back to shameless again. look, look at the amount of difficulty he was in.
he did it for show and knew that this deal, this arrangement would not be accepted and made it very clear. and real had a big position. my god, let me do whatever it is to maintain my position as minority leader and potentially a speaker going down the line and he's caught, right, the reality is he wishes, i'm sure, that she was not part of his life. at the same time, he suffers from the same terminal fear that a lot of these people do, he's afraid that if he gets cross eyes with her, get cross with a large part of the party and all of a sudden, won't be majority leader anymore and jim jordan will have his job. kind of this gross naked
political calculation in advancement, that's all it is but illustrative example of how gross it is in the case of kevin mccarthy. >> well, it's like a teeter totter too. >> told she was going to back down, one of the things cheney camp expected support against her not that strong because the list of members, the 115 the caucus to never materialize and establishment of people like
mitch mcconnell and say i did the right thing, not to violate my constitutional oath and this is the direction of the party that we need to go in if we want to survive to tell the truth and to not provoke violence with conspiracy theories. axios is reporting that mccarthy has done what i thought sort of mid-morning but supporting liz cheney. the path of temperature didn't take it but what he was supposed to do and his did days ago was to dump her from the committee and spare the conference of vote on the floor. so mccarthy can run around and tell his conference it's really bad. the democrats are just going to try to cancel us but what he's
done is thrown the conference under the bus. individual vote on the floor because mccarthy wouldn't handle it and he left it to the democrats to do because he wouldn't face it. so this is another failure of leadership on his part and it will be interesting to see how frustrated that makes the members of his conference and the reaction from those corporate donors who have been urging him, cut this person loose and cut them loose now. >> i mean, this now becomes the qanon caucus. kevin mccarthy's failure today wasn't just a failure to strip marjorie taylor greene of her committee assignments, it was a failure to confront qanon in the heart of the republican conference and i cannot fathom any company would give money to the house republicans for having a parkland denier.
9/11 truther in their midst to have had today, to have had an opportunity handed to them to have cover from mitch mcconnell and joni ernst and the "wall street journal" editorial page. hello, these people write your checks. you are all going home in two years. nuts. ab and john are sticking around. when we come back, all the president's felons, some of donald trump's cronies back in the headlines for all the wrong reasons. that story's next. r all the wro reasons. that story's next. we made usaa insurance for members like martin. an air force veteran made of doing what's right, not what's easy. so when a hailstorm hit, usaa reached out before he could even inspect the damage. that's how you do it right. usaa insurance is made just the way martin's family needs it with hassle-free claims, he got paid before his neighbor even got started. because doing right by our members, that's what's right. usaa. what you're made of, we're made for. ♪ usaa ♪
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some of the biggest names in donald trump's inner circle. we'll start at the fringes and work our way in. attorney lin wood spent months falsely claiming voter fraud cost trump the election. now georgia is investigating whether lin himself voted illegally. reportedly questioning whether he was a legal member of the state. and then steve bannon pardoned by trump on the last day following indictment on federal charges of defrauding donors to a border wall. nbc news confirmed the manhattan district attorney's office has opened an investigation into bannon over that same scheme. while on the topic from safe from feds but maybe not the new york state, prosecutors consider trump's family, even trump himself. we've known for some time now
that trump faces scrutiny over his pre-presidency. the conduct of his businesses. like whether he and his company committed bank insurance or tax fraud or even falsified business records and then there are possible violations of campaign finance law, having to do with his former fixer michael cohen facilitating hush money payments to two women with whom trump allegedly had affairs. those checks written out of the oval office. and by the way, on that front stormy daniels made up an appearance that seems to have amount a truce. tim o'brien, senior columnist and a.b. and john heilemann is still here. shocking but not surprising all the people around the president, the ones especially the ones who really pardon or life may be in legal hot water.
>> solar populated by grifters in orbit around him. it was true of family life growing up. trump was good and repeatedly out of housing programs for using the lawyers and politicians to rip off the government and the lesson and a problem getting caught. and when he entered the white house saying that he was only going to be the best people to join him in the white house, that was an absurdity because he had never run a business with that kind of standard and i think what you're seeing now is the chicken coming home to roost a lot of trouble and doesn't represent an existential threat
to donald trump like some of the other people in the trump organization who might as grows closer to the trump family and the trump organization but all of it is the useful reminder of the kind of people trump retained. saying we had to clear the southern border against the threat and then a bogus scheme to steal money from people around the idea of a border wall. trump had a lawyer in linwood who filed a number of cases alleging voter fraud and now he himself may have engaged in voter fraud. none of them now has a protected halo over the president sitting in the oval office who can continue to protect them from facilitating some of his own schemes. that's what you see play out.
i think the question here is how aggressive are locals going to be. we learned the kind of discretion of the prosecutor and investigator here is really pivotal, so it will come down to how tough-minded do they want to be as these concentric circles move closer to donald trump. >> how much trouble do you think donald trump thinks he's in? >> on the legal front. >> some of his friends think he's in a lot of trouble. some of his friends think he raised all the money in the post-election period to help defend himself legally, not to run for president again in four years. >> yeah, i think, my sense of it is that trump is very paranoid and often paranoid, people with
paranoid do have enemies. he has always been really paranoid. always really believed there were all these conspiracy minded guy for a long time and always believed that his enemies were constantly ramping up persecutions and in this case, prosecutions against him. i think he is afraid of two things. prin principally, being in jail or being poor and he's never been rich as he said he was, as tim will tell you. but he's definitely, exited the white house in a state of profound acute fear on both fronts. afraid of what, particularly in new york, james might do to him and also, really fear, afraid almost as much as afraid of the legal situation, afraid that especially after what happened in the last month, that his financial situation which is, he was going to leave the oval office in a precarious place but his financial situation is incredibly precarious and the combination of those two things, put legal and financial together
make for a very scared donald trump. >> it is amazing and i always look at the people around him as chicken or egg. was he just surrounded by people who had no hesitation of running afoul with the law or once he came in, they were attracted to him because that's how he rolled? we'll stay on it. thank you all so much for spending some time with us today. when we return. combatting the racial inequity of covid vaccinations to make sure communities of color aren't being left behind. color aren't being left behind took advantage of any american senior, or worse, that it was some way to take your home. learn how homeowners are strategically using a reverse mortgage loan to cover expenses, pay for healthcare, preserve your portfolio and so much more. a reverse mortgage loan isn't some kind of trick to take your home. it's a loan, like any other.
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it's pretty glaring. latino residents make up 29% of the population, but only 15% of the vaccinations so far. black new yorkers are 24% of the city's population and just 11% of the vaccinations. doctors uche and ohni write the biden/harris administration must act to ensure black americans are not left out of the vaccine rollout process. some in the public health field suggested that a focus on equity could slow down the vaccine rollout, while there is urgency to vaccinate quickly, it cannot and must not be done at a cost to equity. dr. uche blackstock joining us now. advancing health equity and medical contributor to yahoo news. aaron hains here, editor at large of msnbc contributor. the statistics telling a disturbing story.
this is the number of black americans who have died tragically, 2.8% higher than white americans and "the new york times" reports this. although low income communities of color have been affected disproportionately by the coronavirus, health officials in many cities say that people from wealthier, largely white neighborhoods have been flooding vaccination appointment systems and taking an outside share of a limited supply. i have two questions for you, dr. blackstock. one, who's responsible for making sure that isn't the case and two, where's the flaw in the system that allows that to still happen now that it's been identified and reported on? >> well, part of the problem is that states are not reporting racial and ethnic demographic data on who's being vaccinated. we need our federal administration to hold people accountable for that data. that data must be reported so that we can target outreach
efforts to those communities who are most in need and what we're seeing now is disproportionately, americans are not being vaccinated and that's not just about what quote unquote vaccine hesitancy but people who are not residents coming into black communities being vaccinated. that's not acceptable. we need accountability and transparency in the vaccine distribution process. >> aaron, i want to read something you guys are reporting on the 19th. you write this. or your colleague writes this. for black women and latinas, particular concern about historic discrimination and fears of offering new vaccines early on, not because they're safe but because of a medical legacy of using people of color as subjects for experimentation. it feels like we will look back in the summer if this inequity continues and feel like all the pieces were in public. they've been reported by reporters like yourself, the
vaccine hesitancy and the lack of transparency that the doctor's describing. what's the intervention needed right now, erin? >> i think it's right for folks like dr. blackstock to raise the alarm even with early data. what we are starting to see should be alarming for anyone concerned about this vaccine rollout happening equitably more than this pandemic has been especially for black and brown communities and yes, thank you for highlighting the reporting. i encourage everyone to go to 19thnews.org. reported two-thirds of black women and latinas don't know where to get a covid vaccine and so even if they overcome the historical skepticism from our federal government or from our health care system, they don't necessarily have regular access to a physician who maybe would steer them towards those resources and they are
disproportionately underinsured and these are the folks who are the essential workers in our society, the grocery workers, the retail workers, the child care workers. the front line health care workers. so really, what i was wanting to ask dr. blackstock because i read your editorial with great interest, a couple of things, one. how effective do you think that vice president harris can be as not only the second most powerful person in the country but also a black woman in using her experience to kind of overcome some of the challenges that i just mentioned and also, is it time for the administration to get serious about really getting clear about how many of the 100 million doses in the first 100 days, what is their goal for those getting into black and brown arms? >> errin, two really great points. one of the points that we made in our "washington post" piece is that black americans need to be prioritized for these vaccinations. there's no doubt about that given the legacy and current
state of racism in this country but we need, as you alluded to, trusted messengers. we need people, not just health care professionals of color but trusted messengers in the community. even our even need our vice president to be out there with messaging that's culturally responsive targeting our communities to encourage people to take this vaccine, because the vaccine is going to be really our only way out of this pandemic nightmare. >> i have another question for you. what is the sort of need to innovate on distribution? because it seems like one of the hurdles is that a stadium and a neighborhood that you don't live is really not that accessible for any elderly person. i wonder whether people need to start thinking outside the box of bog door to door, with home health nurses with some refrigeration need to go to door to door where. is the forum for brainstorming
not just getting the need until the arm, but getting the health care provider to the front door so they can make the case, deal with any concerns and lack of trust, and then offer to do it in the comfort of someone's home. >> right, right. we need our local and state departments the public health to work with community messagers around this outreach. what we should be having is community health workers going door to door, educating people, helping to make appointments for vaccines for elderly individuals. we need mobile vaccination units. we need people to have transportation to these mass vaccination sites. we need the resources. hopefully in the relief bill, it will eventually trickle down to state and local departments. but they need the funds and the resources to make this happen, and to develop the infrastructure needed. because in a few months, once the vaccine is available to the public, we need people who are willing and able to take it. >> erin, it's such a massive logistical challenge, i'm just
thinking about transportation. i know a lot of people wouldn't even feel safe getting on a bus with a lot of other people. >> yeah, that's true, nicolle. but dr. blackstock raises a good point about trusted messengers. you know who some of the most trusted messengers in black communities are now? the black women who galvanize and organized voters in 2020. wouldn't it be something if they were tapped to go back out into those same communities in a holistic way, caring about them not just as voters, but as black people who they want to see survive this pandemic, enlisting them to really help you. talk about getting creative in this vaccine roll-out. that seems to me to be an idea worth exploring. >> i hope the administration is watching the two of you. dr. blackstock and errin haines, thanks so much for spending time with us. when we return, as we do every day, we'll remember lives well lived.
chris ramsey was a hero seem seemingly made for this very moment. his friend and neighbor said in his 24 years with blue cross blue shield, chris developed a burning desire to work on health disparities in african american communities. as part of a leadership position with the kappa alpha psi community, chris was instrumental in building up the annual minority health faire.
it has served thousands over the years, providing basic care to people who might not otherwise have access to it. so the pandemic began. chris turned his attention to the front lines, helping black and brown communities with testing. it was honorable work, right up until the point he got sick. we are so sad to report that chris ramsey passed away. it was about two weeks ago, and he died from complications of covid-19. as a testament to how truly vital his work was, a colleague reflected, quote, if we don't pick up the torch that chris left us, our community is doomed. we of course have every confidence that they will pick up that torch. but chris leaves behind big shoes and a big shadow, and a family, a wife and three kids now coping with unimaginable loss. they are in our thoughts and in our prayers. we'll be right back. be right ba.