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tv   Morning Joe  MSNBC  February 4, 2021 3:00am-6:00am PST

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thank you for getting up "way too early" with us this thursday morning. don't go anywhere. "morning joe" starts now. >> i know nothing about qanon. i know very little. >> i just told you. >> what you just told me doesn't necessarily make it fact. i hate to say that. >> i think it would be helpful what she told all of us. denouncing q-on. i don't know even know what it is. >> dumb. kevin. don't do that. . >> qanon. . >> i don't know if i'm saying that right. . >> house minority leader kevin mccarthy >> willie, come on, man. . >> he said it before on tape. he's lying. . >> back in august, he said there is no place for qanon in the republican party. he said it on tape. like at a news gathering. i don't know what he thinks he's doing there.
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. >> i'm sitting there and thinking maybe tommy tuberville took a trip down to mar-a-lago. maybe they drained some of their brain out. >> no. >> tommy tuberville is saying this is your republican party, friends. tommy tuberville is saying he couldn't find out about this qanon republican lady because of the snow. "the paperboy". you know, he's going to the greyhound bus stop and the little kid has his hat. he can't even see the little boy with the cap.
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>> the little newnewsies. . >> he gets on the pwrus and takes the 40-hour bus from the plains to washington. is that what you call it? what is dumb kevin doing? they're not helping their case at all. >> yeah. i don't know what he thought he was doing there. he just came out of the vote where liz cheney was kept in her position. 145-61, secret ballot vote. she voted for impeachment. keep her in her job. interesting to see if they made it public how they vote. he is trying to keep his conference together somehow. he is making a nod toward qanon, towards liz cheney. he's getting pulled in a couple different directions but he is trying to have it both ways
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where a meeting where marjorie taylor greene received a standing ovation by some members of the caucus. >> of course that's the lynching caucus. the lynching portion of the caucus, mika. this is of course a woman who called for the lynching of president barack obama, called for the lynching of secretary of state hillary clinton, told everybody to be calm, take your time. don't rush this. if we do it right, we can lynch barack obama. this is what she said and what your republican party gave a standing ovation to last night >> some of them did. >> she said if you're just patient, we can actually lynch, we can kill hillary clinton. >> stop. okay. . >> no. >> i know. i don't even like the words. >> that's what she said. >> yeah. >> and they're giving her a standing ovation.
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show called for a bullet in the brain of the speaker of the house. assassination for nancy pelosi. that's what house republicans gave a standing ovation to last night. she said jews, jews -- you can't compare these people to nazis. that's wrong! oh, how dare you! she said that jews, jewish kabul was responsible for the wildfires in california because a jewish laser. it was the jews' fault. my fold, how could anybody draw parallels to nazi. that woman got a standing ovation. >> some republicans stood and clapped for her. there are certain things you can't walk back. we all know that. as we have backed into the news
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here, along with joe, willie and me, we have nbc news and national affairs analyst, executive producer of show time's the circus john heilman. >> john who? how do you pronounce that last name? >> the host of waive too early kasie hunt and founder and of the conservative bulwark and how the right lost its mind, charlie sykes. >> boy, that title just keeps getting morel vanity by the day. >> as willie mentioned, the third highest ranking house republican liz cheney will remain in leadership after beating back a secret ballot challenge to strip her of her title as conference chair. sources say 145 house
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republicans voted to keep cheney on while 61 backed the resolution to remove her from house leadership because of her vote to impeach former president donald trump. that is just under 30% of the conference, far fewer than what was anticipated. one source said they couldn't believe the whip count was so off. here's the congresswoman after the meeting. >> we did have a terrific vote tonight, a terrific time this evening laying out what we're going to do going forward, as well as making clear we're not going to be divided and we are not going to be in a situation where people can pick off any member of leadership. it was a resounding acknowledgment we need to go forward together in a way that helps us beat back the negative and dangerous democratic policies. >> john, what happened?
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what do you think? they didn't have the nerve. you saw what happened after osama bin laden. they didn't have the nerve to do it. . >> it is still kind of amazing that roughly a third of the caucus voted to strip her of her leadership. it's not a trivial vote. she obviously won decisively, so let's not make any bones about it. still a third of the caucus tried to get her out of there. if you think about it, who won yesterday in terms of republican leadership, who is important in the party? kevin mccarthy, we'll talk about this. he tried to have it sort of both ways yesterday and did in the sense that he split his ticket. he stuck by liz cheney and marjorie taylor greene. at the moment, both on still standing.
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that's what a lot of this is about. kevin mccarthy, whose fragile holdover the republican caucus, knowing jim jordan is his rival to be the next speaker, mccarthy kept it together yesterday for himself. for liz cheney, good news she was able to hold on and keep her post. for the party, though, the big headline out of this still is standing ovation for the qanon lady. the republicans, to the extent the big news is they did nothing to back away from that label. this is one of the great political gifts of all time. they are loving it. . >> kevin mccarthy is the gift that just keeps on giving for
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democrats. he tried to be king solomon here, charlie. he didn't want the baby to be split. he was making a point. but kevin split the pain. and there's political blood all over the floor because of it. you can't compromise. you can't find the happy medium between a political party and a party that celebrates a woman that attacks jeish lasers, said sandy hoax was a hoax, parkland was a hoax and called for the assassination of nancy pelosi. white suburban voters helped make joe biden president by leaving donald trump.
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>> i'm almost starting to think the republican party really is the stupid party. they had a choice to make yesterday. they had to choose whether they were the party of liz cheney or marjorie taylor greene. they basically decided the answer was yeah. yeah, we're both. and so this is going to be -- of course that's in coherency and unsustainable. you have an overwhelming vote to keep people in office. later today they will have the vote on marjorie taylor greene. it will not be a secret pal lot. it will be very different. you will see an overwhelming number of republicans who will vote to pack marjorie taylor green, this bigoted, deranged truther. and i think people will have a hard time trying to make sense of all of this. there is a republican civil war. can i just make one point here, though, i heard kasie hunt make the point just a little while
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ago for years we speculated what would happen if it is a secret ballot. we always hear what they are saying in private is different than in public. these guys are feckless, cowardly. they will not stand up. when they are given a chance to vote in the secret ballot, okay, we're not buying in to all of this. . >> it is fascinating, mika. we always thought in leadership races because it was private, people would have the courage of being anonymous so they could go whichever way they want. usually in cases like this, if you had a leader that you wanted to get rid of that wasn't helping the party, then
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everybody would say we love you, boss. we love you. then they would all vote against him or her. there would be a groan from the caucus room. and that would be that. charlie makes a great point. this is like freaky friday on thursday. everything is opposite because it was a private vote, because it was a secret ballot they could vote their sane, rational way. . >> yeah. >> so they were free to say, yeah, i'm with liz cheney. now they could say i voted against her. some of these weasels are going to carry themselves. >> on the point of the secret ballot, talk about what we are expecting to see today. but also just the reporting bears out there were at least some republicans doing standing ovations. so it's not so secret. . >> there were some republicans who stood up and applauded
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marjorie taylor greene after she went up and talked about what she planned on doing going forward. this is a person we have walked through all the things she said. this is not a question of being on the left or moderate wing of the conference. this is a question of whether you believe nonsensical conspiracy theories or you don't. and she did get some applause. there were 61 members who voted to remove liz cheney. that is the wing that even in private does actually stand with all of this stuff. this shows there is a thirst for real leadership here. the problem is none of them, as joe and charlie just underscored have the guts to do in public what liz cheney had the guts to do in public. frankly, i would use a stronger word than guts. i don't want to say it on
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television, that she has a strength that these men do not. . >> right. . >> she was out in public who were willing to go out and say i'm going to vote to impeach donald trump. it is likely more than 144 who wanted to do that. >> mika touched on this. house democrats are moving forward with a vote later today to skip her of her committee assignments because majority leader steny hoyer wouldn't do it. he said democrats were forced to act after others declined to do so. speaker nancy pelosi criticized mccarthy in a statement saying his political affiliation was q-california. >> will managerially taylor
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greene be stripped of these committee assignments? it's eye majority vote. i am compare the vote tally for republicans this 145-61 private ballot versus what they say today on the floor about marjorie taylor greene. because what's the reality here? republicans, and this is why mitch mcconnell has been so out there and forceful in calling marjorie taylor greene a cancer. they are up for re-election in 2022.
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to hear kevin mccarthy say that yesterday. >> you know, it sounds like after the meeting that mccarthy, kasie had with marjorie taylor greene, she got up in the four-hour meeting when it was her time to speak and she condemned point by point all the things she publicly has supported on social and talked
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about getting through that meeting. she said they're coming to get me, send me money. let's raise money. she tried to say the right thing. but everyone knows who she is. it's out in the open. >> and she won't say it in public. >> right. >> you know, look, there is going to be a real test for her. is she going to continue to do this stuff, or does she realize she has to act differently now that she is a member of congress? there is a real question there. we haven't talked about what republican leaders didn't do to prevent her from becoming a member of congress in the first place. but now every single thing that she does, republican leaders will have to answer for it too. here they are essentially giving her a pass. >> senate republicans, meanwhile, continue to speak out against her. yesterday before last night's house conference meeting, north carolina republican senator thom tillis tweeted this. it is beyond reprehensible for any elected official, especially a member of congress to parrot
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violent qanon rhetoric and promote deranged conspiracies. >> is she a good face for the republican party? she is not. she is very extreme to say the least. anti-semitism, i have never seen anything like it. the school shootings weren't real. she runs the gamut. jewish lasers started wildfires. it is so far out there. it makes me wonder how she got elected. >> to the new congresswoman from georgia, she doesn't represent the republican party. what she said about parkland is wrong. it's disgusting. i was there three hours or four hours after the shooting. i talked to the families, the 17 families that lost loved ones. i still talk to many of those families. she clearly doesn't represent
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the republican party. . >> why is it so hard for a house republican to do what senate republicans have done pretty clearly the past few takes? >> i have no idea. no idea. >> i have no idea. you know, you could sit there and say, okay, well, they're craven, afraid of a president because maybe he will line out appropriations for their congressional district. maybe he will make it tough. you know, this is a back bencher that just got in there. john heilman, kevin mccarthy, it was -- he had a layup yesterday. this was a political layup. . >> yeah. >> that any person in his position, be they democrat or republican, over the past 100 years. this would have been easy for him to do. and yet he didn't do it. and, again, i think it bears repeating that this qanon woman who -- let's go through again
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what she said. this is what they say is worth defending. she posted the facebook photo of herself holding up an ar-15 targeting three democratic women of color in congress. and called herself with that gun the nightmare. she liked a facebook post that said a bullet to the head was needed to remove nancy pelosi from the speakership. and she also of course said that the stage was being set for the lynching of barack obama and hillary clinton. we talked about her floating the idea that hillary clinton
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murdered jfk. she repeatedly claimed parkland was a conspiracy theory, a hoax, said sandy hook was a hoax. she blamed california's camp fire on a jewish laser. said the las vegas shooting was a plot from gun control activists and said in posts that pizzagate was a theory -- i don't read anymore of it. >> we get the point. it's unforgivable. >> when republicans in the house know that this qanon lady supported the lynching of barack obama, hillary clinton, the assassination of nancy pelosi, speaker of the house, at that point, you know, hey, maybe it's time to go ahead and denounce
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her, censure her, get her out. but we saw in 2018 and 2020 the house move suburban districts across america, suburban districts in texas that determined actually who won those races. and my god, the republicans did well in 2020. but they are setting themselves up, wrapping themselves up around this violent extremist. i don't understand why are you splitting the baby on this one. . >> a lot to say here. willie gave the count of the secret ballot. there was one person who voted present on the liz cheney thing. that is my favorite thing of the whole day. in the secret ballot. i'll bet it may have been kevin mccarthy.
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let's put that aside. not just jewish lasers, they are jewish space lasers that caused the california wildfires. get that clear. what's the answer on her? yesterday kevin mccarthy not only didn't take the layup, do what was obviously the right thing to do morally, ethically, politically for the party and for the country, he tried to blame democrats. he spent all day yesterday saying that democrats are doing this terrible thing. they are trying to chip her of her chairmanship. and he spent the day rather than leading his own party in the house and spent the thing trying to lay this off on democrats. so you know that's what he's going to do today too. having said that, what is the answer here? why? the answer is marjorie taylor greene did something smart this weekend. she got on twitter and said i've been talking to donald trump.
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he's got my back. i'm on the phone with him. he's supporting me. there's still fear among all the house republicans of donald trump's ghost, the possibility that donald trump has such a hold, and there is reason to be afraid of it. they look at the polling. they see the degree of loyalty in the republican base to donald trump even though he is out of office, and they fear donald trump in the next two years could still endorse a primary challenger on their right and that they would have political problems. it's craven. it's absurd. it's focused more on their own political interests, not on the party's interest, not in all the things laid out. she saved herself by hugging donald trump. and trump has not said a word to suggest he's not entirely in.
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he loves qanon, has always been for it. that's the answer. it's the trump factor yet again. we thought trump was gone. he is still the major political animating force for kevin mccarthy who flew down and kissed the ring. it's appalling and self-destructive, but it's going on. . >> which actually reminds me that donald trump, the person that she embraced again, let's never forget, he's the insurrectionist, was a co-conspirator to the cop killer. the guy that killed the cop -- >> yes, sir. >> the guy that murdered that police officer and the other terrorist that brutalized the other officer with an american flag, responsible for the mayhem in the capitol, donald trump
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co-conspirator. everybody that's watching right now knows that police officer would still be alive today if it were not for donald trump. you can't blame that on jewish space lasers, kids. that cop was killed by a cop killer, a maga cop killer because of donald trump. so she'srathat. not only that, willie, you know, we saw the list of the things that she did. she was interviewed the day after the maga cop killer killed the cop. she was interviewed the day after a trump supporter, trump terrorist battered another cop with an american flag. she was there the day after the chaos that led to so many deaths and injuries among police officers and others. and what did she say in the interview on january the 7th?
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i wouldn't change a thing. i would do it all over again. something to that effect. so even the day after she was supportive of cop killers, she said, oh, yeah, the cop being killed? yeah, all of that that happened yesterday, you know what, do it again in a second. >> yeah. do you have any question in your mind anyone watching the show how she felt about what happened on january the 6th? let's listen exactly to what she said. . >> just finished with our meetings here at the white house this afternoon. we had a great planning session for our january 6th objection. we aren't going to let this election be stolen by joe biden and the democrats. president trump won by a landslide. call your house reps, call your senators from your states. we've got to make sure they're on board, and we already have a lot of people engaged. okay. stay tuned. >> that's the congresswoman
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right before january 6th. you're talking about what she said afterward. charlie sykes, i want to point to something tim alberta said last night, the great writer from politico. wild to see this many moderates strike back takes when 61 members just tried to oust their conference chair over a vote of conscience, talking about liz cheney. when 17 members tried to overthrow boehner it was considered a mutiny. the trendline is clear and not really encouraging. she called it a resounding win. in some ways it was. but 61 members of the caucus watch what happened january 6th. they have listened to marjorie taylor greene. they have seen the entirety of what's been taking place the past few weeks. they said, no, liz cheney should not be in a position of leadership. >> no. tim is right as usual. the crazy goes deep into the
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republican party. the difference between the senate and the house will be very, very stark. look, should we really be surprised this is a party that is going to be comfortable with marjorie taylor greene? should we be surprised the overwhelming majority of house republicans will vote to back her? this is the party that embraced donald trump, the conspiracy theorist in chief. joe, you're right about the insurrection. think about all the other conspiracy theories this party has marinated it, from birtherism, muslims in new jersey celebrating 9/11, to the rich conspiracy, the suicide of sposser. donald trump normalized conspiracy theories, and the republican party was okay with one of his theories after another. so a party so thoroughly trumpified said this is really bad but is it all that much
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worse than donald trump? who embraced alex jones, into the trutherism. alex jones denied it was real. this is a party that has gone a long way down the road to crazy. and obviously john is absolutely right, everyone is afraid of donald trump. don't forget they are really afraid of the fact that their constituents support donald trump. whatever trump does, a lot of these congressman are looking over their shoulders and realizes a lot of members of the base, they have no problem with this. they support this. the republican party is a trump problem but it also has a voter base problem. and i think you're going to see that reflected in the public vote later today. >> and, again, john heilman, we could talk all day about what she said two years ago or what she did on facebook or didn't do on facebook. you look at that january 6th comment where she is inspiring
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people to come to the rally that leads to the riot where they are going to spread lines. the interview the next day, which we'll get for everybody here. the interview next day where she told her interviewee, yes, you know what, she was praised by the interviewee for everything she did. she said, yes, you know what, i wouldn't change a thing. i would do it again. something along those lines. even after the maga cop killers killed the cop. even after the maga terrorists brutalized an police officer with an american flag, even after the maga terrorists injured scores of police officers. to me that's actually -- as damning as all that other stuff is, look at what she said after the insurrection of the united states of america. she supported the insurrection.
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she supported the traitors, the terrorists, the seditionists. >> she tweeted out 1776 on the morning of january 6th. i'm virtually certain, joe. and she was right there with donald trump in inspiring, in being in favor of this march on the capitol to try to halt the democratic process by which joe biden would be installed. she is not remotely come close to acknowledging he is a legitimate president who won a free and fair election. she is still an advocate of the stop the steal big lie that led to all the chaos and all of these deaths. in this way she is perfectly reflective of the entire party. i do not think every house republican is a qanon person. i do not think every member believes in that parkland and sandy hook didn't happen. et cetera, et cetera.
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all those things. here's where they all stand together. i'm virtually certain you could find a press release or personal statement from every house member in the last 24 hours honoring brian sicknick, the fallen police officer month lay in honor yet at the capitol. all of them say this man is a hero. he died protecting the united states capitol while giving standing ovations to and will vote to keep her committee assignments for this woman, marjorie have a lore green, who is, along with donald trump, helped inspire, fully in favor of the insurrection, and afterwards was oh, good by me. i don't care about brian sicknick being killed. there is a level of hypocrisy that's so -- it's astonishing. put aside the politics. how do people sleep at night? how to you put out a press
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release and make a public statement honor this police officer while siding with someone who was on board the insurrection that killed him, preand post. i can't comprehend. . >> well, even after the cop killing. and, you know, we saw a lot of republicans in the senate who are stepping forward and criticizing her. but, kasie hunt, lindsey graham is the one saying, well, i don't know if these posts are fake or not. he saw the interview the that she gave the day after maga cop killers stormed the capitol. and he saw that and is still saying she's a nice person. i went on a trip with her and she seemed to be a nice person. who knows, maybe all of these
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posts are doctored or something. no. he heard her calling for the insurrection on the 6th. 1776, we know what that was code for for these people. and the day after trump terrorists killed the police officer, brutal likewised another police officer beating him with an american flag, brutalized scores of other police officers. she's praising the activities of the day before and said she would do it again. >> marjorie taylor greene is not even trying to claim the posts were fake. she's doubling down on them. she is saying come at me. so i don't know where lindsey graham is getting this, they're fake. it shouldn't even be part of the conversation. and officer brian sicknick gave
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his life in service of all of these people who then voted, turned around and voted to remove somebody from leadership who had been willing to hold donald trump accountable for his role in the death of that officer as a result of the insurrection. they applauded someone who, as you point out, has seemed to encourage this insurrection. and if you are officer prine sicknick's family, i think that's hard to grapple with. we watched him be laid to rest yesterday. and i know was an a very emotional moment for many people i spoke to yesterday who were at the capitol at the time of this insurrection. me as well. it was the first opportunity to reflect what happened that day. and the leaders that honored officer sicknick stood up and
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said the whole country mourns with you. take comfort in the whole country mourning with you. that's true, except the people trying to defend what happened that day and who are refusing to condemn someone who encouraged the kind of conspiracy theories that motivated people to go out and do this. joe. >> in the latest quinnipiac poll, 68% approve of the covid bill. on the $1,400 covid stimulus payments 78% support. 18% do not. he said he will not compromise on the $1400 checks. but biden did say he is willing to target the money to a smaller
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group of americans who need it the most. the president said he is open to negotiating the overall price tag and some programs, although it's unclear which once, democrats want the bill passed by march 14th. and the house has said the president is not willing to allow negotiations to delay the process. so joining us now from the white house, principal deputy press secretary for president joe biden, carine >> reporter: good to see you. >> there are there more room for negotiation with republicans? >> reporter: yeah. i think that's absolutely possible. here's the thing. the president has said it loud and clear and many times that we need to move swiftly and we need to move now and we need to meet
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this moment. we just went through the worst since the wake of world war ii. not only that, if you put that together with covid where you see almost 11 million people who still remain unemployed, nearly 4 million people have been unemployed for six months or more. and 2 million women have left the labor force. when you compound that, the two crises compounded with the economic crisis and covid-19 crisis, there are tens of millions of americans who are on the brink of losing everything that they have. so we have to act now. and we need to continue. look, the president basically showed this week that he is willing to talk to both sides, right? he met first with republican senators on monday. he met yesterday with democratic senators. as you mentioned, he talked to
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the democratic caucus. so we are willing to have a conversation and hear ideas that make the american rescue plan stronger. and that is the goal here. pause we have to move quickly. as zoe knows, we have a mandate. joe knows that more than most that the mandate we have to act. we need to act to make sure that the american people have relief. not later but now. . >> karine, i thought it was interesting yesterday. you're right, the president spoke with republicans. he spoke with democrats. actually, after talking to both -- leaders of both parties, said he was willing to try to chart a middle ground. but he was steadfast on the $1,400 checks. but i thought it was very interesting. he obviously is listening to joe manchin, kristen sinema, and mitt romney who are saying, okay, but let's make sure we target the truly disadvantaged.
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we heard all the horror stories of people with private jets getting, you know, thousands of thousands of dollars. people with yachts getting ppe payments. so talk about those most disadvantaged. talk about how he is going to do that. >> reporter: the american rescue plan, joe, already targeted people who are most in need, especially during this crisis, this pandemic. like i said, we're open to ideas to make that stronger. and when he talks about the $1,400 and the importance and not moving from that, we have to remember the $900 billion passed last year was a backfill for the end of 2020. so that was just a down payment. we need to continue and make people whole and get that $2,000 that we promised, that president joe biden promised americans, that democrats promised the american people. so what you are seeing from joe
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biden, as you know, his lifelong career record reaching to the other side across the aisle and getting big things done with republicans and democrats. and that's what you are seeing this week, having those conversations. we're willing to negotiate, willing to listen to the other side. but the bottom line, joe, we have to get to work now for the american people. we cannot afford to do nothing. you know, we heard reports last year of 30 million people who reported that they couldn't put food on their table. a million people last week filed for unemployment insurance benefits. like that is the reality of the american people. and we cannot afford to do nothing. according to moody's, they said that if we do not act now, we could have fewer than 4 million jobs this year alone. so we have to act now. we can't -- the cost is too great to not take action.
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>> it's willie. good to see you this morning. we had senator joe manchin yesterday, a vote you will need today and the next four years. he said if it's 1.9 trillion, so be it. he thinks a good idea to strip out the minimum wage hike. what's your response to that? would the president be willing to make it a separate piece of legislation? >> reporter: well, as we know, senator manchin is more than capable of speaking for himself. we appreciate the conversations we've been having with him. i think he spoke loud and clear when he started to move the budget process forward. that was critical. he, along with so many other senators, understand we need to act now in this covid crisis and the economic crisis not just for west virginia but the entire country. the president believes he
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strongly believes that it is long past due to increase the minimum wage. he wants to work with congress to make that happen. it will be up to the rules in the house and the senate if that happens now with this package, we hope so. but that's what he believes and wants to make sure that happens, especially now, willie, with essential workers who are putting their lives at risk during this pandemic. they deserve to get an increase in minimum wage. . >> would it put it through? >> reporter: we'll see. we are still at the beginning of the conversations. we'll see where we are at the end. >> i know you have to go. we have a lot more to talk about this crisis as it pertains to women. would love for you to come back and talk about that. absolutely, mika. . >> thank you very much. still ahead on "morning joe", it's been almost a month since
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the capitol riot, and the arrests keep coming, including another member of the proud boys plus, the cdc makes a new recommendation about schools reopening even if teachers haven't received the coronavirus vaccine. you're watching "morning joe". we'll be right back. "morning jo. we'll be right back. the lexus es, now available with all-wheel drive. this rain is bananas. lease the 2021 es 250 all-wheel drive for $349 a month for thirty six months. experience amazing at your lexus dealer. it's time for the ultimate sleep number event on the sleep number 360 smart bed.
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>> charlie, we're only a couple weeks into the biden administration. you and i i'm sure could enrage the audience by listing things that we don't agree on that joe biden has done. let me start. keystone. all right. tweet. back and forth and back and forth and back and forth. but by most objective standards,
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he's had two really good weeks politically. one of the smoothest starts that i have seen a president start with. you look at the numbers. we were showing the approval rating sitting up 58% approved. others have him at 49%, 50%. he is over a level that donald trump of course never got.
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our former party just continues to get on the wrong side of the issues. >> you heard them saying it is a distraction from the problems. but the real problem is joe biden is moving so fast and consistently. i have to say i agree with you. ive disagree with some of the things he has done. but it is still extraordinary to see a president who is working so hard, who is prepared, who is taking his responsibilities as seriously as joe biden is. and i think that -- this man has been in office only two weeks. what he has done is remarkable. i don't think we have really gone our heads around it. the most important thing again is just the change in tone, the seriousness, the recognition of how difficult it is to deal with the pandemic. the forcefulness in responding to the economic problems out
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there. and i think while republicans are still engages in culture wars, the cancel culture and everything, joe biden is moving in a way that actually ought to really alarm a lot of -- alarm republicans. when you look at the poll numbers and you see the number of republicans that are favoring some of the things that joe biden has done. so i would say that so far it's been very, very impressive first two weeks in office. >> "the wall street journal" editorial page has talked a bit about this, the republicans are backing themselves into a smaller and smaller corner. and the bubble they were in when donald trump was president is, again, getting smaller and smaller. let me just read from a "new york times" article. two-thirds of americans supported biden's decision -- this is abs/ipsos poll, by the way. 70% backed the united states reentry into the world health organization, 83% said they
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supported his order prohibiting workplace discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation and gender identity. these are talking about 80/20 inches. . that's an 80/20. stay away from that, scarborough. republicans, kevin mccarthy's republican party is on the wrong side of these 80/20 issues. they can talk socialism, aoc. they will be talking two years from now, marjorie taylor greene, republicans cheering for assassinations of secretaries of state. and on and on and on. here you have biden sitting over 50%. and these presidential orders that he is signing that
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republicans think are such great issues, they are 70/30, 80/20 issues. >> that's right, joe. and that has been joe biden's bet the entire way. when he was a candidate he said to reporters, to others in the party who wanted him to tack left on major issues, no, my internal political compass tells me that we are in a lot of these major issues an 80/20 country. i'm going to stick in the middle of that. and i'm not going to wander into the 20% that maybe the left of my party. and it won in the election. it won democrats the senate. democrats also control the house. they obviously lost seats in the last election. the point you have been making on jewish space lasers and other things marjorie taylor greene is focused on, no matter how much
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they have or doesn't have over the people in his party, do they want to win enough elections they become a majority governing party or do they not? i'm not saying he has true moral feelings about marjorie taylor greene. perhaps he does. it would seem likely. however, he is a power-playing politician. and he makes public moves so he can gain more power. he demonstrated that over and over again. his office is proud of that. he is out there saying she is a cancer because he knows if she is the face of the republican party, they will not win elections in the future. that just underscores exactly your point. also about joe biden, president biden staying in the 80/20 lanes. >> mika, he is saying those things because he is watching what is happening. putting out the message that, yes, she is the face for a
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party. a vote for a republican is a vote for qanon, conspiracies, an attack on the capitol. but they are fleefully elevating this backbench georgia congresswoman to be the face of the republican party. >> it's not hard. >> we're 56 minutes in. we talked an awful lot about conspiracy theories. we talked about some of joe biden and what he's doing. for viewers, to put this in perspective, what we are doing, we are not talking about a crazy back bencher. there are crazy back benchers on both sides. look at me. i got elected. there are always crazy back benchers. but what we are talking about here, the republican party of kevin mccarthy gave a standing ovation to a woman who called for the assassination of barack
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obama, the hanging. called for the hanging of hillary clinton. endorsed the idea of changing nancy pelosi out as speaker by assassinating her and putting a let to her head. accused jews of starting forest fires in california. said that the children who were slaughtered at sandy hook were actually not killed. and those parents who have lived through hell for six years, they were just part of some conspiracy theory. that it was all a hoax. same thing with the poor souls who lost their lives at parkland. and we could go on and on. they gave her a standing ovation last night. stop for a second and think about that. the republican party gave her a
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standing ovation last night. and today they are going to have a chance to vote against her and condemn her for her words. as for me, you know what, she does what omar did. she apologizes. then the democrats put a resolution out condemning her language. all right. we can talk about that. if she went to the house floor today and apologized to barack obama for calling for his assassination, apologized to hillary clinton for calling for her assassination, apologized to nancy pelosi for calling for her assassination, you know, if she had a poll skwraoeued for starting riots that made her a co-conspirator as a cop killer to the death of that capitol hill police officer. if she went through all of that, maybe you just censure her. maybe you let her get on the
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small business committee or something like that. but she's not doing that. she is still using this to raise money. that's kevin mccarthy's party. he had a chance to clean things up last night. . >> he did. >> and he didn't. now it's not mccarthy's republican party. it's qanon's republican party pause what kevin wouldn't do last night. . >> he has lost sight of his own soul at this point. top of the hour now. john heilman is still with us. and joining the congress, eddie tkphraud jr., jake sherman with
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punch news, msnbc contributor. . >> hey, jake, we just heard our discussion, the last hour or so, about what happened last night. kevin mccarthy had a chance to do the right thing. to help the republican party move forward. and he blinked. what's next? >> what's next, she's emboldened. marjorie taylor greene is now raising money, six figures she has raised on twitter off this incident. she said something interesting which didn't get a lot of attention. she said if nancy pelosi was the minority leader, she would be bending over backward to protect anybody in her caucus. the implication being kevin was not bending over backward. although mccarthy did protect her. i'm kind of speechless about this. she's unpredent ant about normal things people would be repentant
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about. and they are talking about precedent for not sanctioning her in this sway. they say precedent? she is talked about killing members of congress. she said a lot of hateful garbage. and republicans have basically done nothing. the good news is for democrats, they have theant to kick her off this committee, and she will. liz cheney had a massive victory last night. so it shows two things. republicans don't want to take care of the qanon align people in their party but quietly when it's a secret ballot. joe, you have been through many of these in the house republican conference. when it's a secret ballot, people tell the truth. liz chain, the most established figure in the republican party, has won, beat back the trump wing and put them back in their holes so to speak in such a major and loud way.
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. >> i know tim alberta, great writer from politico said last night that cheney lost too much support. i've got to say, i think that was -- again, going through these sort of votes, going through a lot of them, that's a landslide. >> you walk into congress and somebody is miffed at you because they didn't like your suit. talk about that for a second. just really again we're talking a lot about the qanon congresswoman and the qanon republican party. let's talk about how big of a win by republican caucus. this really was last night for liz cheney. >> he's a great writer. he understands the republican party better than anyone. i disagree on him.
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141-65, which i think is the final margin here, is absolutely a romp for cheney. 30, 35, to 50 people that are going to be against you either way. liz cheney, by the way, this is her first competitive leadership race. there is no other way to explain it. i have seen a lot of these races as well. this is such a statement from liz cheney. i doubted her. i listened to a lot of people in her leadership team who were very skeptical she would be able to win. we were saying she would squeak by. she beat the living pull many out of her opponent and it cannot be overstated. >> it is massive.
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here's some republican senators also calling out the qanon house republican caucus. >> is she a good face for the republican party? she is not. she is very extreme, to say the least. the anti-semitism -- i have never seen anything quite like it. anti-semitism, school shootings weren't real. she runs the gamut. the idea that forest fires were started by jewish lasers. so profound, so far out there. it does make me wonder how she got elected. >> with regard to the new congresswoman from georgia, she doesn't represent the republican party. what she said about parkland is wrong, disgusting. i was there three or four hours after the shooting. i talked to the families, the 17 families that lost loved ones. she doesn't represent the republican party. >> so, john heilman, we have a battle going on in the republican party. i tired through the years of
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people talking about a republican civil war. this is a republican civil war. you have the crazies versus the very conservatives. liz cheney, very conservative. wall street journal opinion page, very conservative. rick scott, very conservative. anybody that calls these people moderates are idiots. they don't understand. no. these are not -- this is not the moderate wing of the republican party. this is hard right wing of the republican party and of conservatism. but you do have liz cheney, mitch mcconnell, rick scott wall street journal, editorial page. a lot of people coming out against the qanon senator. the battle lines appear to be drawn. . >> yeah, joe, they are drawn.
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criticizing a woman who holds marjorie taylor greene's view is not a profile in courage. these guys don't -- i'm glad they're doing it. it is good to hear there are some republicans on the senate side largely who have the courage who can speak the plain truth that this woman is the nut. i think that's great. but it shouldn't go without saying, there doesn't need to be a fight against marjorie taylor greene. she is out of her mind and has expressed some of the most heinous possible views. it shouldn't need to be said. none of these guys deserve credit, strictly speaking, for what needs to be said in the party. to jake's point, this isn't a conventional leadership race, right? i agree liz cheney won overwhelmingly. no doubt. in a secret ballot she won
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overwhelmingly. still, a third of the caucus wanted to strip her of her leadership for punishment for a specific vote she took when she told it was a vote of conscience, she voted in a way that donald trump inspired insurrection and had done something we all agree and was plain to see. so they are punishing her. she had a total convincing victory. tim alberta's point was, when they wanted to throw boehner out, it was considered a revolution. you have a third of the caucus who wanted to strip liz cheney. i think that's tim's point. the trendline in the party is toward the crazy. and then i will say the last thing, right. which is there is now going to be a public vote on the house floor. a public vote. democrats will try to kick the qanon lady off her committee
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assignments. and now we will see, joe, to your point about the civil war, where do republicans stand when they have to put their name on a vote to marjorie taylor greene. i won't make any predictions. given the way mccarthy did nothing about it yesterday, the way mccarthy accepted whatever her speech was that she gave, where she gave a ten ed apology but sort of said i shouldn't have said any of these things. when given the chance to do their own business, the overwhelming part of the business will vote against this measure to take her off her committees. that will tell us where the house caucus is. they are willing to stand by and take a vote that they can have ads run against them. they will stand with this woman overwhelmingly, despite the fact that it will allow democrats to label them the qanon party in the midterm elections. that tells you more in my view
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what the secret ballot tells you when it comes to liz cheney. >> to take that vote today, because kevin mccarthy didn't strip her which he could have done on her committee assignments. in that meeting, in the conference meeting, four years yesterday, she said she realizes what she said is wrong. she doesn't believe in qanon. she said to say out loud i believe school shootings happened. she talked about her time in the school when someone had a gun to make that point. she said she does not know what a jewish space laser is. she said to say it out loud in a meeting. kevin mccarthy came out and used those comments to say, see, she showed remorse. she will stay on the committees as far as i'm concerned. he made a speech at the end of the meeting, perhaps helping her keep her position in leadership,
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ten, trying to have it both ways. no one believes what she said is what she actually believes because we have seen the contrary evidence. >> absolutely. and jake mentioned she just raised six-figure money as a result of what she says -- describes as her persecution. so we had a moment, a moment where everyone has to make a choice. theres no doubt about it. you have to choose whether or not you're committed to democracy or not. we know marjorie taylor greene has become a face of a certain section of a mob that sacked the capitol january 6th. you know who is excited? josh hawley and ted cruz. they are glad we're focused on her instead of what they did. there are these elements within that mob, within the republican party that actually supported overthrowing the duy elected president of the united states.
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she represents the elements that should be banished from the body public. she is providing cover i think for those persons who seem to be mainstreamed who also supported this effort. part of what we -- i want to reemphasize, we're in a moment where everyone has to make a choice. you cannot split the difference. you have to choose democracy or these elements that want to undermine the democracy. case closed in my view. >> to your point, eddie, jake sherman, this choice is important. we have seen what the wrong choice looks like. so to sort of turn away and think, oh, it's just a back bencher, that doesn't seem like something we can afford to do anymore, we being the country. and the democrats finally get the gavel. why did it take so long. >> because mitch mcconnell and chuck schumer were arguing over
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amendments over how much control, frankly, democrats should have over the process. this is mostly a process argument. they were always going to get this done. and i would say, listen, over the next we'll see how good mitch mcconnell's words are. chuck schumer has promised to do more. mitch mcconnell has basically promised to block the process less than he has in the past. again, we will see how this works out. we are in the middle of what -- or the beginning of what will be an important process of covid relief, getting covid relief to the american people. this process will last six weeks. joe biden is trying to step on the pedestrianal to get $2 trillion out the door. they are not participating in the process because they think it is too much money. the next couple of weeks, guys, to me is the most important part of joe biden's presidency. this is the time where he could get something big through. congress has the appetite to do it. it will take a while.
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people will need to be really, really patient. >> so, jake, i'm curious what your read is what's going on the hill. republicans and democrats move together despite the fact early on we heard mitch mcconnell and chuck schumer saying it wasn't going to happen, 8, 10 moderates work together. you heard democrats saying, no, we're not moving off $1.9 trillion. then you started hearing joe chan chin talk. now joe biden is sitting tight with the $1,400. but, yes, joe manchin is worried it's not targeted enough. republicans are worried it's not targeted enough. okay. we can have that discussion. i'm curious, what are you hearing on the hill? what are you going hearing on the hill? and also take us a little bit
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deeper into that relationship between mitch and chuck. what -- how are they doing? how are they working together right now? no, it's not going to -- you know, they're not going to be tipp and reagan. but is there a bit of thawing out? are there possibilities to work together? . >> joe biden sees a couple proposals as absolutely necessary. he wants unemployment insurance. he wants $1,400 checks. those are very, very important to joe biden. the price tag less so. i don't think he is vetted to $1.9 trillion. republicans don't believe they can be at 1 trillion or above. so we will be -- when it gets closer and the innards of this
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deal become clear, whether republicans feel comfortable voting for it. i'm not talking about todd cotton and ted cruz, mitt romney, susan collins. state and local funding, which republicans don't believe states and localities need. and joe biden is firm, as is nancy pelosi. as for mcconnell and schumer, i think there is an opportunity to work together for these first couple of months here. mitch mcconnell clearly whether you like him or not, you could look at the situation and what he has said, and he is trying to, to the best he is able to turn the page from donald trump, he obviously voted for -- to call the impeachment trial unconstitutional. so not so much. but he called that marjorie taylor greene, backed liz cheney. he's not acting differently. but you see little specs of mitch mcconnell trying to turn the page to a new congress.
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i don't think he will be participating in this covid relief package. that's unfortunate in the last six covid relief packages have been bipartisan. there is precedent for this being a bipartisan deal. if i were a democrat, joe, i would say, listen, i just won the white house, senate, and kept the house. we are in the driver's seat. it's time for us to get done what we want to get done. compromise with what we can but not too much. we patrol all levers of government. . >> they do control the senate of course. chuck schumer is in the position he didn't want to be in. gentlemen, i have a feeling if you get joe manchin, you just may believe to pick off romney, collins, murkowski, maybe one or two others by the end.
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it's fascinating. jake sherman, thank you so much. we greatly appreciate it. now the latest with the coronavirus. the biden administration announced a new federal/state partnership to launch two mass vaccination sites in california. the pilot project will be established in oakland where they will vaccinate at the coliseum, the other on campus of california state university los angeles. this is the first of 100 sites nationwide aimed at closing the gap and vaccine access in underserved communities. governor gavin newsom said both will be adjacent to the communities hardest hit by the pandemic >> potentially more good news out of oxford university showing astrazeneca's vaccine may slow submission to the virus in addition to preventing illness. while the data has not been peer reviewed, the results reduce
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transmission. 67% in vaccinated people. the vaccine was shown to be 76% effective in preventing covid-19 after just one dose. and even more effective after the second dose. just ahead, we will speak with the former acting cdc director dr. richard besser about those stories and a lot more when "morning joe" comes right back. "morning joe" comes right back
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they asked me whether or not they thought the trial should go forward. they didn't ask me whether or not he should be impeeved. he was impeeved. it has to go forward or else it would come off as farcical.
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sit probably not likely that the 17 republicans to change their view and convict an impeachment. but i think it's important that it meet certain basic standards that people are able to see what happened and make their own judgments. i'm not looking for any retribution. i'm not looking -- my job is to try to heal the country and move us forward. >> that was joe biden in a "people" magazine interview weighing in on former president trump's upcoming second impeachment trial. meanwhile, federal authorities yesterday arrested the self-described sergeant at arms of the seattle chapter of the proud boys for his alleged participation in the capitol insurrection. they charged 30-year-old ethan
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nordeen with several counts, including violent entry and disorderly conduct on capitol grounds. according to the complete, he can be seen in photos and videos near the front of the crowd that confronted capitol police. according to the daily beast, his social media posts show he and others were planning in advance to organize a group that would attempt to overwhelm police barricades and enter the united states capitol building, prosecutors said. in related news, canada yesterday declared proud boys a terrorist organization, adding the far right group to a list that includes al qaeda and isis. joining us now, former federal prosecutor and now district attorney of new york's westchester county, mimi rocah with a new piece entitled we can fight hate in our communities before it escalates to violent
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crime and extremism. also with us, state attorney for palm beach county, dave aronberg. let's start reading from the "usa today" piece. as a nation, we must engage in a comprehensive approach to hate, bigotry and domestic terrorism that includes holding accountable those responsible for violent acts. at the same time, local authorities across the country must demonstrate their commitment to ensuring that everyone in their communities feels safe. we must recognize the severity of this moment with our actions not just our words. so, mimi, it's accountability but also a communication to the public of the values that we stand by. explain what seems like a two-pronged process. >> absolutely, mika. so, you know, people think about, rightfully so, when we talk about combatting domestic
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terrorism, violent extremism, think about the fbi, federal prosecutors, national federal agencies. and we absolutely should. and that is why the fbi has been speaking out about this and talking about the rising threat of domestic violent extremism. but my father escaped from the nazis. he fled from the nazis. so i believe that we cannot wait until it turns into violent extremism. our approach has to start much earlier. education and outreach, fighting hate crimes. but it has to start at the local level in our communities, making sure we are being proactive in dealing with even the smallest incidents that we refer to as bias incidents. don't let them fester, grow. law enforcement in our county, and i know in states and counties around new york state and elsewhere, are taking a very
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proactive approach. one important piece of that right now is making sure that we bring law enforcement, local law enforcement in as our partners. we put out statements with local law enforcement condemning the january 6th attack. and condemning local biases. local law enforcement needs to speak out about that. >> let's talk about the online element of this. as you know, so much of what we have seen recently has been organized in facebook and other social media platforms where we have seen hate and we have seen people who hate gather together and find like-minded people. do you put it on a local police department, for example, to be monitoring that kind of stuff? if you want to start at the ground floor, a lot of it does begin there. . >> absolutely. it's such an important piece of this. the short answer is no. you don't put that on a local
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police department. depending on the jurisdiction, this is something that's been part of our approach that just in the past couple of weeks. remember, my first week in office here, we were watching the attack on the capitol on january 6th. so we were already focused on this. but you jump into high gear. it's about coordination. it's about local, state, and federal law enforcement working together. it's about intelligence gathering. it's why we will imbed an analyst from our office on the joint terrorism task force of the fbi, assuming i can get funding for that. these are the kinds of approaches that law enforcement need to take to both behind the scenes but also put a very public face on this. we need to shine a light on this. we need to let people know that, for example, the patriot front was putting up stickers very strategically. those are early signs that you have people in the community that want to stoke division and intimidate people in our community. and we have to show we take that
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seriously. even if it doesn't quite rise to the level of a prosecutable crime, we're going to gather the intelligence and now be able to look online, monitor social media accounts, respect the first amendment. this is a basic investigative and security tool at this point. >> so. >> dave: aronberg, why doesn't the united states government has a domestic terrorism law if people are go egg to arrest domestic terrorists, they have to arrest on firearms or assault charges. they can't just arrest them for domestic terrorism. i'm curious what your thoughts are about that, and wouldn't that make it much easier to sweep up a lot of these terrorists, seditionists on january 6th and any future
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terrorist activities. >> absolutely, joe. the greatest terror threat to our country today is white supremacist violence. that's the threat assessment from the department of homeland security. yet we still don't have a statute on the books on domestic terrorism. we keep fighting the last war. the fbi can do great things when it comes to international terrorism. our federal law enforcement agencies can infiltrate groups and thwart their plans. but when it comes to domestic terrorism, the fbi is more reactive than proactive. so they need a law on the books to infiltrate the groups like qanon and others that thrived on the internet, on social media. a statute would help in keeping these perpetrators behind bars. most of the rioters have been released pretrial, including one woman from texas who asked the judge to be allowed to travel to mexico for the weekend for a
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retreat. she was caught breaking into nancy pelosi's office. afterwards, she said she was proud of it and she would do it again. pause there is no domestic terrorism law, she was charged with misdemeanor of unlawful entry and disorderly conduct. and so if she were al qaeda, she would be charged with international terrorism and there would be no retreat from solitary confinement. >> i don't remember al qaeda actually breaking into the united states capitol, trashing it, killing cops, being part of a huge, massive act of she diction and insurrection against the united states. it makes no sense why we dover a domestic terrorism statute where you can sweep these people up and throw them in jail. yes, if you're killing cops, beating cops with flags, if you're going inside the united states capitol to stop a constitutional vote count, a
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vote count that is required by the united states constitution, that is sedition against the united states of america, and you are a terrorist. you should be able to -- i mean, the fed should be able to charge with tkrefbg terrorism and throw away the key for 20 years. >> well, joe, i think you're right. my in tuition is that you're right. we need at least some legal framework in order to address what are clearly domestic terrorists. we are also committed to free speech. we are committed to the right to protest. and i'm concerned, as you can imagine, who gets labeled the terrorist? could you imagine if we had something like that on the books and how dr. king would have been approached? could you imagine what the trump administration would have done with such laws on the books with regards to black lives matter and how they described. so we have to be careful. i'm really -- you would think
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intuitively, that i would be right with you. but i'm worried how such laws on the books, if we're not careful, could be used in ways that i would think would actually harm the ways in which americans protest, i think. let me ask mimi this question, though. part of what we have learned of our assessment of what happened january 6th, elements of law enforcement was actually involved. what do you do, mimi, in your role to kind of cess out these local police departments who seem to be, how do i put it, in agreement or at least open to what is being said to these extremists? >> look, i'm aware of that. it's one of the first things that i talked about publicly after the january 6th attack. because there's nothing more
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frightening than thinking that law enforcement or military is not trying to protect everyone equally. so we need to make that statement that we are committed to protecting everyone equally. it's not what appears to have happened january 6th. that's why we need, i think, a full-fledged commission to investigate what happened and make sure that we really do get the details of that. was it just incompetence, or was it something more deliberate that law enforcement was not fully able to do its job. there were many heroes that day, but there were many failures. it's part of why, as i said, i reached out to local law enforcement, at least in my county, they have very, very enthusiastically join me in statements, in actions, in initiatives, to publicly fight hate crime and bias incidents here at the local level and let
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our communities know we are committed to equal justice for everyone and protecting everyone equally. that doesn't mean i can sit here and vouch for every police officer in my county. i can't. i don't think any prosecutor could do that in good faith. but i know the leadership in my county has joined very willingly and sent in these messages. it sends in a message not just to the community but to law enforcement in this county. that this is what we are doing, so get on board. >> yeah. so, eddie, let me go back to you. let's expand a little bit on the conversation that you just had. it seems to me, and walk me through this where your concern comes. like, for instance, if you riot, if you go into the capitol, if you are a cop killer, if you were trying to stop a constitutional -- the constitutional counting of electoral votes intentionally
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and they're talking about killing the vice president of the united states and the speaker of the house, that's domestic terrorism. if during black lives matter marches, a group breaks off and they break into the saks fifth avenue in minneapolis, breaking and entering. and whatever else. if they hurt somebody in the commission of that crime, assault and battery. help me out here. where do the lines blur for you on where domestic terror act could be used improperly? >> well, what i was trying to do is combine what you were saying with some of what mimi was saying. the counterintelligence program with j. edgar hoover and the fbi and the way that counterintelligence program allowed for certain kinds of surveillance, the ways in which
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groups were singled out and treated. whatever you think of the "black panther" was movement was treated. how domestic terrorism, how we think about the way in which we construct such a law, can give license to, right, a variety of practices that could actually undermine the very commitments to the right to protest, freedom of speech, that make us who we are as americans. so i'm thinking historically, joe, of the overreach of the counterintelligence program, what we had to do in order to pull it back, and how domestic terrorism, if we're not careful, could lead us back to where we were? does that make sense? . >> well, it does. you talk about the late 1960s. one of the things curt anderson was talking about in "evil geniuses" the rampant domestic terrorism from the left, the weather man, the bombings seemed to be weekly occurrences.
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it would obviously apply to that, bombings from the left in the 1960s, if it were around then, and it would apply now to what now poses the greatest threat, which is white supremacist terrorism. i do understand that. it seems to me we ought to be able to walk and chew gum at the same time. we can protect first amendment rights, the freedoms of speech, we can protect -- i mean, let me give you in here, dave aronberg. what eddie is saying has been echoed the last couple of weeks. or there some that are concerned it might be applied in the same way they were applied against civil rights leaders in the 1960s. how does that bill get drafted in such a way that, yeah, we can get violent ebg traoeftists on the left and right in decades to come, while still allowing for
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free speech. >> it needs to be drafted carefully. and the concerns are real. you can draft a law that meets the realities of today, that the greatest threat today is white supremacist violence. joe, you have experienced the impact of a country without a law. a man threatened you in the media. he had a manifesto, a huge weapons cache. he was about to be released pretrial because we couldn't charge him with domestic terrorism even though that is what he inspired to be. he was charged on lesser offenses. that's the cost of not having these statutes. it is not just in prevention but we have a harder time keeping
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these domestic terrorists behind bars where they belong. >> they can have a kill list, a stack of weapons, their plans written out. and they can be ready to go on a rampage and kill a lot of people. i think that guys also had just about every democrat who was running for president on that kill list as well. and the judge almost let him go because there was not a domestic terrorism law. it is insanity. got to lose a little nuance. figure out how to be able to hold domestic terrorists in jail. right now the judges are letting people go. >> that's right. >> left and right that stormed the capitol. it's insane. they were guilty of, a lot of them, of committing sedition. >> frightening. >> they need to be held in jail. >> district attorney of new york's westchester county mimi rocah and state attorney for palm beach county, dave aronberg.
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thank you both for being on. >> coming up, as covid vaccine rollout approaching all of those who need the vaccine now. we will speak to a pair of leading health experts who say the answer to that question is no. "morning joe" is back in a moment. "morning joe" is back in a moment go pro and get double the protein for just $2 more. subway. eat fresh. my plaque psoriasis... ...the itching ...the burning. the stinging. my skin was no longer mine. my psoriatic arthritis, made my joints stiff, swollen... painful. emerge tremfyant™ with tremfya®, adults with moderate to severe plaque psoriasis... ...can uncover clearer skin and improve symptoms at 16 weeks. tremfya® is also approved for adults with active psoriatic arthritis. serious allergic reactions may occur. tremfya® may increase your risk of infections and lower your ability to fight them. tell your doctor if you have an infection or symptoms or if you had a vaccine or plan to. tremfya®. emerge tremfyant™ janssen can help you explore cost support options.
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♪♪ >> welcome back to "morning joe". coming up on 7:43 at times square. snow being moved out of the way. a couple of days later, looking good out there. former acting director of the cdc, president and ceo dr. richard besser. recently a member of the biden transition covid-19 advisory board, dr. julie murita. both have a joint op-ed in "usa today" titled "covid-19 rollout needs a shot of equity." i want to dig deep on your piece. let's talk where we are in the vaccination rollout. a lot of people who qualify by
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age or by need and still can't get it. we reported on new partnerships in the state of california between state and federal government to open up stadiums, vaccination sites. how is this vaccine rollout going two weeks into the biden administration? >> willie, what i can say is it's moving in the right direction. we're seeing more opportunities, more venues for people to get vaccinated. that's a good thing. to think it's only been a year since this virus was identified and already tens of millions of people in this country have been vaccinated. that's terrific. what really worries me, willie, is as we have talked about before, this pandemic is not affecting every community in the same way. black americans, latino americans, native americans, are being infected, hospitalized, and dying at rights that far surpass their proportion of the population. the advisory committee who was
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recommending who should get vaccinated first, given there is not enough vaccine for everybody right away. it will take time. instead of targeting people by race or ethnicity, they decided to target people by risk. by risk of exposure and risk of dying. first, it was to be health care workers and those in long-term care facilities. but right after that it was going to be all of those people who are working to keep our economy going, people working in our supermarkets, food production, first responders, teachers, those people who can't work remotely. a high proportion or disproportionate percentage are people of color. you will address the issue of equity if you're going that route. but a lot of states have abandoned that and said anyone over 65 can get vaccinated. once you do that, you are overwhelming the system and not protecting those people who need protection the most. . >> so let's read a bit of the joint op-ed. you both write, quote, the nation has lost sight of the
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fact while this pandemic is affecting every community, it is not affecting every community the same. black, latino, native americans, many of whom are front line essential workingers, are being infected, hospitalized and dying at rates that far surpass their proportions of the population. given this reality, we must do everything we can to ensure that work of them get to the front of the vaccination line. dr. morita, why is it, because we did hear early in the process that once we got our front line first responders vaccinated, it would move into the essential workers that the doctor just laid out. . >> we sense there was a lot of pressure from the public in terms of needing and wanting the vaccine. and so i think there was this tendency to try to want to satisfy people's wants and needs for the vaccine. we are all anxious about wanting to get our vaccine, so understandable.
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there are other things we can do to continue to protect ourselves. there are in sufficient supplies to vaccinate everyone who are at high risk. mask wearing, social distancing, a i.d. sroing large crowds. those can make a big difference while we are waiting our turn to be vaccinated. critically important is making sure we make the vaccine accessible to those people who have the highest risk for serious disease and death, communities of color, harder to reach communities that historically have been under served and mistreated in the past. >> dr. besser, on that point, there's a lot of sort of convoluted information out in the public sphere where you go to a place and see a lot of people not wearing masks. were they vaccinated? did they have the coronavirus? do they have the antibodies? is it better just to wear a mask even if you have been vaccinated? is there any type of language on that? >> yeah. mika, the current recommendation
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is whether you have been vaccinated or not, you should wear a mask. and there are a number of reasons for that. the science is still incomplete in terms of the power of vaccines to eliminate someone's ability to transmit the infection to someone else. vaccines aren't 100% effective. they are terrific vaccines, the two that are out there. 95% protection. 5% of people, though, will still be at some risk. the other point, and i don't think it should be minimized, when you are wearing a mask out in public, you are signaling to people around you that you are taking this seriously, that you are doing everything you can to protect those around you. given that there is not nearly enough vaccine for everyone to get vaccinated, signaling that, doing all we can to protect ourselves, our families and those around us is extremely important. one of the things that gives me a lot of hope, we are seeing a unified message coming out from the white house and from our public health leaders.
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they're all the same message of what we need to do as a nation. >> eddie? >> dr. morita, thank you so much for the article. let me ask this question. covid-19 has revealed the deep inequalities within our health care system. we see this now even in vaccine delivery. tell us what we need to be doing right now to address the inequity you guys just identified? what might be the best first step in addressing what you have just laid out in the op-ed piece? >> i think a critical element in terms of making the vaccine accessible is looking at the systems that are in place right now. i think you all, and i am experiencing this myself, trying to register my 80-year-old and 90-year-old parents so they can get vaccinated. and i have high-speed internet at home. there are people in their communities that to not have access to high-speed internet, that don't have cars, they don't go to drive-in facilities, can't take time off during the day to
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get vaccinated. so those kinds of things can happen now. setting up phone banks, making sure people can call instead of just using the internet, making sure the vaccines are spread out throughout thenecessary. making sure people have access to the vaccine before work, after work, on weekends so they're truly accessible to everyone. the foundation is really -- our foundation is focused on ensuring that everyone in america has a fair and just opportunity for health. having fair access and just opportune to get access to the vaccine is really critical for some of these highest risk communities. >> dr. besser, i've been hearing a lot from parents on progress on a vaccine that's safe from children. we're hearing from many teachers unions and school districts now that say we're not comfortable opening the schools, some say, until both teachers and children have been vaccinated. what looks like the possibility
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here for children getting vaccinated? how far away are we from that? >> julie and i are both pediatricians, it's an important question. the first point i want to make is that the science is showing that children can go to school safely. safe for them, for staff at the school and for teachers in the school. schools need the resources to make sure they can do social distancing, proper cleaning and proper ventilation. that's the highest level thing to remember. it is important, though, to be able to provide vaccines for people who are in a setting of any kind of risk. teachers want to be vaccinated. they are in a higher priority group that cdc lays out for vaccination, that's great. for children it's going to take a bit of time. what we're seeing the companies starting to do is step-wise testing of vaccines in children. they don't need to do the big trials like took place for the initial approval from the fda.
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they're starting with teens and going down to tweens, then younger children, they need to show the children mount the same immune response in their blood. so they'll look for those immunofactors, those antibodies in a group of children and looks for sign of safety. if they're able to see that, they should get the approval from the food and drug administration for the administration of vaccine in children. they'll do that in a step-wise progression. the hope is that by the summer there will be a vaccine or vaccines that are licensed for children. >> dr. morita, dr. besser is saying something here that dr. fauci said on the show last week, that the cdc came out with research and said schools have been surprisingly safe. we've been encouraged by how safe schools are. so do you agree that they ought to be open? >> it's interesting. a study was released last week published in the journal of the american medical association which documented what happened over the past year in terms of schools that were opened.
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it was of a natural experiment. some schools opened, some schools did not. you can look and see of those schools that opened, there was little transmission within the schools when there were appropriate protections in place. when there us with consistent mask wearing, ventilation was appropriate. children were actually identified if they were sick and teachers were identified, they would separate people or have them isolated and quarantined when appropriate. all those measures in place, schools could open and function well. we all want our kids to be back in school learning because we know that's where they learn best. we have to make sure the systems are in place to make sure the schools can be opened safely. >> dr. julie morita and dr. richard besser, thank you for being on the show this morning. >> all this month for black history month, we're asking our guests to highlight a black
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american who inspired them. who are you hiring this morning? >> miss ella baker, born in 1903. she's one of my heroes. one of the most amazing i think practitioners and theorists of participatory democracy. she worked as a field secretary as director of branches from 1943 to 1946. playing a central role in cofounding the end friendship organization. in 1967 being the first executive secretary. being a central force in helping organized the student nonviolent coordinating committee. without miss ella baker the black freedom struggle of the 20th century would not have happened. she's a proponent of the power of ordinary day people. there's a wonderful phrase i love. we're the leaders that we've been looking for. we are the leaders we've been
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looking for. she's one of my heroes and informs almost everything i do. >> i love it. thank you, eddie. still ahead, democrats won control of the senate two weeks ago but are just now taking control of the committees. so how long before we finally see confirmation hearings for key cabinet posts like attorney general? plus the qanon congresswoman gets a pass from house republicans while congresswoman liz cheney had to fight back a challenge for her leadership post. kevin mccarthy calls this unity. "morning joe" is coming right back. >> majorie taylor greene's rhetoric has been characterized as loony, crazy, wacky, dangerous by senate republicans, not house democrats. by senate republicans. why would kevin mccarthy continue to associate himself and the republican conference
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with someone who leader mitch mcconnell characterized as a cancer? the last time i checked, cancers need to be cut out. they cannot be allowed to metastasize. kevin mccarthy has the ability to do the right thing. he should. he should.
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i know nothing about qanon. i know very little. what you tell me doesn't necessarily make it fact. i hate to say that. >> i think it would be helpful what she told all of us. denouncing q-on. i don't know if i said it right. i don't know even know what it is.
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>> dumb. kevin. don't do that. >> qanon. >> i don't know if i'm saying that right. >> house minority leader kevin mccarthy. >> willie, come on, man. >> he said it before on tape. he's lying. >> back in august, he said there is no place for qanon in the republican party. he said it again and again on tape. like at a news gathering. i don't know what he thinks he's doing there. >> how do they say it in america? qanon? # >> i'm sitting there and thinking maybe tommy tuberville took a trip down to mar-a-lago. maybe they drained some of their brain out. >> no. >> tommy tuberville is saying this is your republican party, friends.
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tommy tuberville is saying he couldn't find out about this qanon republican lady because of the snow. i guess the paperboy. you know, he's going to the greyhound bus stop and the little kid has his hat. he can't even see the little boy with the cap. >> the little newsies. >> exactly. so he gets on the bus and takes the 40-hour bus from the plains of bam alabama to washington. is that what you call it? what is dumb kevin doing? they're not helping their case at all. they just keep digging it deeper. >> yeah. i don't know what he thought he was doing exactly there. he just came out of the vote where liz cheney was pretty
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resoundingly kept in her position. 145-61, secret ballot vote. she voted for impeachment. keep her in her job. interesting to see if they made it public how they vote. he is trying to keep his conference together somehow. he is making a nod toward qanon, making a nod towards liz cheney. he's getting pulled in a couple different directions to hold the conference together, but he's also trying to have it both ways after a meeting where majorie taylor greene received a standing ovation by some members of the caucus. >> of course that's the lynching caucus. the lynching portion of the caucus, mika. this is of course a woman who called for the lynching of president barack obama, called for the lynching of secretary of state hillary clinton, told everybody to be calm, take your
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time. don't rush this. if we do it right, we can lynch barack obama. this is what she said and what your republican party gave a standing ovation to last night >> some of them did. >> she said if you're just patient, we can actually lynch, we can kill hillary clinton. >> stop. okay. >> no. that's what people said. >> i know. i don't even like the words. >> that's what she said. >> yeah. >> and they're giving her a standing ovation. show called for a bullet in the brain of the speaker of the house. the assassination of house speaker nancy pelosi. that's what house republicans gave a standing ovation to last night. she said jews, jews -- you can't compare these people to nazis. that's wrong! oh, how dare you! she said that jews, the jewish
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kabul was responsible for the wildfires in california because a jewish laser was targeting california and caused all -- she said it was the jews fault. my god, how could anybody draw parallels to nazis. that woman got a standing ovation. >> some republicans stood and clapped for her. the issue is there are certain things you can't walk back. we all know that. as we have backed into the news here, along with joe, willie and me, we have nbc news and msnbc national affairs analyst, host and executive producer of showtime's "the circus" john heilemann. >> john who? john -- i never heard of -- how do you pronounce that last name? heilemann? >> no. >> the host of "way too early"
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kasie hunt is with us. and founder and author of the conservative bulwark and how the right lost its mind, charlie sykes. >> boy, that title just keeps getting morel vanity by the day. >> as willie mentioned, the third highest ranking house republican liz cheney will remain in leadership after beating back a secret ballot challenge to strip her of her title as conference chair. sources say 145 house republicans voted to keep cheney on while 61 backed the resolution to remove her from house leadership because of her vote to impeach former president donald trump. that is just under 30% of the conference, far fewer than what was anticipated. one source affiliated with the freedom caucus said they couldn't believe the whip count was so off. here's congresswoman cheney
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after the meeting. >> we did have a terrific vote tonight, a terrific time this evening laying out what we're going to do going forward, as well as making clear we're not going to be divided and we are not going to be in a situation where people can pick off any member of leadership. it was a resounding acknowledgment that we need to go forward together and in a way that helps us beat back the negative and dangerous democratic policies. >> john heilemann, what happened? what do you think? liz cheney, they just didn't have the nerve. you saw what happened to osama bin laden after they crossed cheney. i guess they didn't have the nerve to do it. >> yeah. right. totally. i think -- first of all, it's kind of still kind of amazing that roughly a third of the caucus voted to strip her of her leadership. it's not a trivial vote. she obviously won that vote
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decisively, so let's not make any bones about it. still a third of the caucus tried to get her out of there. if you think about it, who won yesterday in terms of republican leadership, who is important in the party? kevin mccarthy, we'll talk about this. he tried to have it both ways yesterday and sort of did in the limited sense that he split his ticket. he stuck by majorie taylor greene and also he stuck by liz cheney and at the moment, both are still standing. that's what a lot of this is about. kevin mccarthy, whose fragile holdover the republican caucus, knowing jim jordan is his rival to be the leader of the next caucus and potentially the next speaker, mccarthy kept it together yesterday for himself. now, you know, for liz cheney, good news that was able to hold on and keep her post. for the party, though, the big headline out of this still is standing ovation for the qanon lady. and republicans yesterday saying
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we're not backing away from her. democrats will vote. there's going to be a floor vote today, joe, on whether she gets stripped of her committee chair. democrats want to paint republicans as the party of qanon. republicans yesterday under kevin mccarthy's leadership did nothing to back away from that label. this is one of the great political gifts of all time for the democratic party. they're loving it. >> kevin mccarthy is the gift that just keeps on giving for democrats. he tried to be king solomon here, charlie, and king solomon really didn't want the baby to be split. he was making a point. but kevin split the baby and there's political blood all over the floor because of it. you can't compromise. you can't find the happy medium between a thriving political party and a party that
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celebrates a woman that attacks jewish lasers, says 9/11 was a conspiracy theory, says sandy hook was a hoax, parkland was a hoax and calls for the assassination of nancy pelosi. there's not a middle ground there, especially for the suburban voters, the white suburban voters who helped make joe biden president by leaving donald trump. >> i'm almost starting to think the republican party really is the stupid party. they had a choice to make yesterday. they had to choose whether they were the party of liz cheney or marjorie taylor greene. they basically decided the answer was yeah. yeah, we're both. so today is sort of going to be a two-act play, because today
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you have a vote. you have an overwhelming vote to keep people in office. later today they will have the vote on marjorie taylor greene. it will be a secret ballot. it will be very different. you will see an overwhelming number of republicans who will vote to pack marjorie taylor green, this bigoted, deranged truther. and i think people will have a hard time trying to make sense of all of this. there is a republican civil war. can i just make one point here, though, i heard kasie hunt make the point just a little while ago -- for years we speculated what would happen if it was a secret ballot. we always hear what they are saying in private is different than in public. these guys are feckless, they're cowardly. they will not stand up. but when they're given a chance to vote in a secret ballot, you see, okay, we're not buying in to all of this. there's a real contrast between the public vote you will see later today and that secret
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ballot last night. still ahead, one of the senate democrats who met at the white house yesterday with president biden, michigan's debbie stabenow joins the conversation. we'll be right back. ♪♪ your skin isn't just skin, it's a beautiful reflection of every single thing you've been through in life. ♪♪ which is why dove body wash renews your skin's ceramides and strengthens it against dryness. ♪♪ for instantly softer smoother skin you can lovingly embrace. renew the love for your skin with dove body wash. renew the love for your skin introducing new advil dual action. the first and only fda approved combination of advil + acetaminophen. advil targets pain acetaminophen blocks it. new advil dual action fights pain for up to 8 hours.
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♪♪ house democrats are moving forward with a vote later today to strip congresswoman greene of her committee assignments, that's because steny hoyer wouldn't do it. he said democrats were forced to act after mccarthy and other republicans declined to do so. speaker nancy pelosi criticized mccarthy in a statement yesterday referring to his political affiliation as q-california. she wrote he handed the keys
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over to greene, an an anti-semi and truther. so what do you think, kasie hunt? >> it's going to be a vote. it's going to be public. what's the reality here? this is why mitch mcconnell has been so out there and forceful calling majorie taylor greene a cancer. all of these members of the house of representatives are up for re-election in 2022. republicans want to take back the house. if they take back the house, where will they do it? in suburban districts, moderate places that flip back and forth? what will democrats do to those who support majorie taylor greene on the floor? they'll run ad after ad saying this member of congress
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supported someone who believes parkland and sandy hook didn't happen. it's mind blowing if you're a republican who wants to win elections and get control back of power in washington. mitch mcconnell gets that. republican senators get that. i realize at the top of the show, one quick note about kevin mccarthy saying he doesn't know who qanon is. he was in the capitol the day that a bunch of people with q signs, q clothes and connections to q online stormed the capitol. and threatened to hang mike pence and threatened his life. >> it sounds like after the four-hour meeting when it was
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majorie taylor greene's comments yesterday that she condemned what she supported on social media and in meetings, meanwhile yesterday they said they're coming after me, they're coming to get me, send me money. she tried to say the right things in those two minutes, but it's out in the open. >> she won't say it in public. there's going to be a real test for her. will she continue to do this stuff or does she realize she has to act differently now that she's a member of congress? there's a real question there. there is a real question there. we haven't talked about what republican leaders didn't do to prevent her from becoming a member of congress in the first place. but now every single thing that she does, republican leaders will have to answer for it too. here they are essentially giving her a pass. coming up -- >> in a time of tension, it is more important than ever to unite this country.
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and strengthen these ties so that all of our people will be one. >> that was president john f. kennedy with a message in 1963 that rings just as true today. now a new project from one of the nation's top universities is exploring why america is so divided and what can be done about it? that conversation is just ahead on "morning joe." think you're managing your moderate to severe ulcerative colitis or crohn's disease? i did. until i realized something was missing...me. my symptoms were keeping me from being there for him.
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never in the history of congress have people been deciding where other parties are putting people on committees. >> senator mcconnell said her views amount to a cancer. >> well, i denounce all those comments that were brought up. everybody -- and she came to the floor -- she came inside our conference and denounced them as well. she said she was wrong. she has reached out in other ways and forums. and nothing that she said has been based upon since she's been a member of congress. the voters -- the voters -- no, the voters decided she could come and serve.
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>> john heilemann, kevin mccarthy, he had a lay-up yesterday. this was a political lay-up that any person in his position be they democrat or republican over the past 100 years, this would have been easy for him to do. yet he didn't do it. again i think it bears repeating, that this qanon woman who -- let's go through again what she said. this is what the republican party in the house is cheering on. this is what they say is worth defending. she posted the facebook photo of herself holding up an ar-15 targeting three democratic women of color in congress. and called herself with that gun the squad's worst nightmare. she liked a facebook post that
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said a bullet to the head was needed to remove nancy pelosi from the speakership. and she also of course said that the stage was being set for the lynching of barack obama and hillary clinton. she also of course -- we talked about her floating the idea that hillary clinton murdered jfk jr. and other political opponents. she went full truther on 9/11. she repeatedly claimed parkland was a conspiracy theory, was a hoax, said sandy hook was a hoax. my god, it just keeps going on and on. she blamed california's camp fire on a jewish laser. said the 2017 las vegas shooting was a plot from gun control activists and said in posts that
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pizzagate was a theory -- i won't read anymore of it. >> we get the point. it's unforgivable. >> when republicans in the house know that this qanon lady supported the lynching of barack obama, the lynching of hillary clinton, the assassination of nancy pelosi, speaker of the house, at that point, you know, hey, maybe it's time to go ahead and denounce her, censure her, get her out. but we saw in 2018 and 2020 the house move suburban districts in california, suburban districts in virginia, suburban districts across america, the suburban districts in texas that determined actually who won those races. and my god, the republicans did well in 2020. but they are setting themselves
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up, wrapping themselves up around this violent extremist. i don't understand why are you splitting the baby on this one? >> well, lots to say here, joe. first of all, the one thing, willie gave the count of the secret ballot. he left out the fact that there was one person who voted present on the liz cheney thing. that is my favorite thing of the whole day yesterday. i'll bet dollars to doughnuts that that may have been kevin mccarthy. let's put that aside. not just jewish lasers, they are jewish space lasers that caused the california wildfires. let's get that clear. >> oh, my god. >> what's the answer here on her? the last thing just to set this up, yesterday kevin mccarthy not only didn't take the lay-up, joe, didn't do what was right morally, ethically, politically for the party and the country,
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he tried to blame democrats. he spend all day yesterday saying democrats are trying to do this terrible thing. they are trying to chip her of her chairmanship. and he spent the day rather than leading his own party in the house and spent the thing trying to lay this off on democrats. so you know that's what he's going to do today too. having said that, what is the answer here? why? the answer is marjorie taylor greene did something smart this weekend. she got on twitter and said i've been talking to donald trump. he's got my back. he's a big supporter of me. i'm on the phone with him. me and donald trump. she pulled trump close to her. if you want to understand what's going on here, you said -- well you can understand fear of a president. there's still fear among all of these house republicans, there's fear of donald trump's ghost. and there is reason to be afraid
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of it. they look at the polling. they see the degree of loyalty in the republican base to donald trump even though he is out of office, and they fear donald trump in the next two years could still endorse a primary challenger on their right and that they would have political problems. it's craven. it's absurd. it's focused more on their own political interests, not on the party's interest, not in all the things laid out. that's what it's all about. she saved herself by hugging donald trump. and trump has not said a word to suggest he's not entirely in. he could have easily distanced himself from majorie taylor greene. he has not. never has. he loves qanon, has always been for it. that's the answer. it's the trump factor yet again. we thought trump was gone. he is still the major political animating force for kevin mccarthy who flew down and kissed the ring just the other day. it's as clear as day. it's appalling and it's self-destructive, but it's going on. coming up, many of you probably recognize this voice. >> unity is a little like exercise. a great idea. a noble idea, but difficult and
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all too easy to forgo. yet the history of our democracy has proven that in extraordinary moments of unity americans have accomplished great things. >> historian jon meacham joins us next with a new project and what unites the nation. "morning joe" is back in a moment.
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♪♪ we're back at 8:35 with breaking news. the u.s. labor department says 779,000 workers filed for unemployment benefits last week. that's down from 847,000 claims the week before. economists surveyed for the "wall street journal" expected about 830,000 claims. the house approved a budget resolution last night allowing democrats meanwhile to move
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forward with the process that will allow them to pass a $1.9 trillion coronavirus relief bill without republican support. the senate is expected to approve a resolution later this week. once both chambers pass a resolution, democrats will set out to craft a rescue package they hope to pass in the coming weeks. they hope to approve a new aid package before march 14th when a $300 week unemployment insurance supplement will expire. >> all right. with us now let's bring in member of the budget and finance committee, senator debbie stabenow was one of the senate democrats that met at the white house yesterday with president joe biden. senator, thank you very much for being with us. so, talk about the meeting yesterday and whether you see a deal that's going to joe
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manchin, hickenlooper, some of the more moderate to conservative new members of your caucus as well as maybe one or two republicans. >> well, joe, first it's always great to be with you. and i have to tell you that yesterday walking into the oval office with our president and vice president was a breath of fresh air first of all. i've been in a number of meetings with donald trump and to be in a meeting where the president of the united states not only knows the subject matter but is giving us detailed numbers on how many people got vaccines in their arms yesterday and the goal today and on and on, and to have the vice president speaking about what we need to do. we all walked out of there really big smiles on our faces under our masks because we felt like we've got folks that are smart and talented and care. so now we have to move forward.
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let me just start by saying that this proposal of the president's is bipartisan. as you know, you showed the numbers. it's something like 3 out of 4 americans, democrats and republicans, republican governors, democratic governors, mayors and so on, it's bipartisan. the question is whether or not some of our republican colleagues will join us. i believe we'll get this passed. i believe that we want it. we will give every opportunity for republican colleagues to join us but we can't give up the focus, which is saving lives by putting vaccines in peoples arms and getting direct checks and help for folks to survive this. and getting our kids back to school safely. that's the bottom line. so we want them to join us and we will do everything we can to make that happen. but this is bipartisan if you're talking about what folks in the
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country want. >> so, let's talk about what the president said the past few days. he has said he's going to stick to the $1,400 checks. but has said he'll work with manchin, democrats, maybe even some republicans on trying to make it more targeted. we all heard the horror stories from last year of people getting ppe money that had private jets and turned it around, tried to exploit the government. we saw horror stories over the past couple of weeks of other entities getting a lot of money that they just didn't need. how do we make sure -- understanding that these checks need to go out -- how do we target it as much as humanly possible so we're not reading these horror stories six months from now?
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>> it's absolutely doable. as you know, having been in congress, we can set the income limits that are appropriate. we want to make sure we're helping the middle class, but what the stories showed was sort of that phase-out at the end. that the top was a couple -- 150,000 but then phased out. so somebody making 300,000 may have gotten a check for 5 or $10. we should stop that. they shouldn't even be getting that. we can target it and we need to be able to target it. then i really want to stress something else. that is, you know, when you look at the numbers over the years, it's real clear. great story yesterday in the "new york times" about the fact that democratic presidents create more jobs than republican presidents. when you have democratic policies. so part of what we're debating right now is a difference where republican colleagues think that every problem can be solved with a supply side tax cut. you know, given to the wealthy
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americans. we don't believe that. history shows that doesn't work. what i'm excited about, it's just harder to get republicans to support this, is expanding the child tax credit. the earned income tax credit. this year secretary yellen told us a couple days ago, if we pass this package we can lift half of the poor children out of poverty in america. not in ten years, this year. half the children in america. that's what we're fighting for. everybody getting a fair shot. making sure everybody knows somebody has their back and they can come out of this and work hard and they'll be able to succeed. and that america is not just for a few folks, the wealthy and the well connected. >> senator, it's willie geist. it looks from the outside and looks to a lot of us who talked to people around the process like democrats are headed towards reconciliation on this, to a simple majority instead of a 60-vote threshold.
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are you comfortable with that? do you see peril in proceeding that way in your first big move under the biden administration? >> i'm very comfortable doing that. we've actually in our history had 17 different times reconciliation has been used in a bipartisan way. it was used by republicans, we know, in 2017 to try to kill the affordable care act and to give $2 trillion in tax cuts. we are aiming at march 14th when unemployment assistance and other important assistance runs out for americans. this is real. we have a sense of urgency. so we want republican support as much as we can. we're starting the budget today. there will be bipartisan amendments. we want them involved. but not to the point where we have to go back to republican
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policies that focus on the rich and don't work and don't create jobs. and we aren't going to go back to a point where we limp along all year and don't have enough money for vaccines, for the tests needed, for health care that needs to be provided and our kids can't get back to school safely. so that's the bottom line. we have to move because americans are saying you have to move. and as i said before, this is wildly supported by democrats and republicans across the country. i would love it if we could have republican colleagues joining us. i can tell you as a member of a very bipartisan committee, agriculture, nutrition and forestry, we'll have a lot of things we do in a bipartisan way. it may be the way we view who helps in our economy doesn't mean it happens in this one, but we'll definitely be moving forward and working in a bipartisan way. we can't let -- right now we're ready to move because we made a
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commitment and people in our country need us to move and get things done. >> so, senator, you talked about the reopening of schools. i wanted to ask you what your reaction is to what's happening in chicago. what's happening in d.c. where you're actually having city leaders trying to move teachers unions to reopening schools. you even have d.c. filing a motion against teachers unions to prevent strikes as schools reopen. you obviously know kids need to get back into the classroom. are the teachers unions dragging their feet too much on this? >> well, i believe part of this package, and what we need to do, is make sure teachers feel confident and safe. we've seen in the daily covid briefings that we have a new home test that is going to be made available where folks could -- we ought to be investing in our teachers where they are able to take a test
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every day and determine whether they are safe and others in the school are safe as well. bus drivers, custodians. we have to be giving them every tool that they need. as someone who led the school-based health center legislation and we actually authorized something the end of the year, we have to get money in for health care. mental health. we know it's happening for children as well as adults. and so to me it's not about trying to pit teachers against children and parents and so on. it's how do we make sure the school is safe and that teachers feel safe, everybody feels safe, that parents know their children are safe. that's what this package is about. that's why there's such a sense of urgency about it. >> do you think that schools are not safe enough for teachers in chicago and washington, d.c. to return?
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>> i don't know, joe. i don't know the specifics on that. in michigan we're taking it district by district, you know, and people are -- the schools are really struggling. they also have problems with not enough teachers. so you'll have half the class or certain age groups one day, others the next day. it's a tough problem. i don't pretend to make a judgment on every school. i do know this, we need to do more and support them and if we're going to be able to get our children back to school safely. >> all right. senator debbie stabenow, always great to see you. thank you so much. we appreciate you being on with us today. and coming up, there's one university in the country that may have to answer to the nation's deep polarization. they may have the answer actually. jon meacham will be with us to help explain that and why there's a lot more to shea's
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the shoulders of a new administration to guide those millions of americans of all political persuasions who urgently seek renewed faith in democracy, in government, and in each other. that is historian and our friend jon meacham describing the new project on unity and american democracy, joining us the three co-chairs of the project, former republican governor of tennessee bill haslam, and lawyer and activist and former obama white house fellow summer ali, and rogers chair in the american presidency at vanderbilt university jon meacham, he occasionally advises president joe biden. you are visiting professor at vanderbilt, we can vote you out at any moment. be ready, here. >> willie, i want to jump off here and say that the chancellor asked me to be sure i pointed
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out to you there's still a naming opportunity for the project on unity and democracy. >> how much, john? >> and we think the willie geist project has a certain resonance that would bring in a lot of young potential sports broad casters. >> i think it lends a certain gravity to the project. i'm on board and we'll talk about my price very shortly here, john. >> it does. willie, i have an idea. i know somebody who's really, really rich. and he went to vanderbilt. then he went to oxford. senator john kennedy, who last night was talking about the tuna tartar crowd, but he's worth at least $7 million, really rich, went to oxford, maybe, willie, he can do it. >> he's a man of the people, after all, so maybe he can do it. john, let's get past the naming of this and talk about the substance of it. boy, what a mountain to climb to
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figure out how to bring the country back together. to focus on unity and what it really means, a term we've heard a lot from president biden and others. talk about the project and how you begin to tackle it. >> absolutely. unity is not unanimity. it's not seeking a kind of policy valhalla. but it is about having enough americans in common assent to the propositions of the declaration, the propositions of the constitution. and to facts and evidence. and that last one is really important because we're living in an era where too many of us decide before we ever encounter reality what that reality is going to be. that is, we don't, as walter litman wasn't said, we don't see and then we define. we define and then we see. and that begins to fracture a
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democratic, lower case "d," republic, because a democratic republic depends on our capacity to use reason, to at least take a stand against passion, against our appetites and our ambitions. this goes back deeply into the human condition. and so when people hear the word unity, i think there are folks on the left who think, oh, that just means liberal agenda. and i think there are folks on the right who think, oh, that just means liberal agenda. it just means giving in to the other side. that's not what compromise -- that's not what unity is. it's believing that the public square can be governed by fact. we can assess the problems of our time, come up with solutions and that politics fundamentally should be about the mediation of differences, not about forever
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fighting total wars. >> so governor, what would you say to americans who would say, as jesus said, the poor have always been with us, you know, a lot of historians would say disunity, chaos has always been with us. jon meacham, pulitzer prize winning historian knows that better than most, his book starts with thomas jefferson pondering whether the nation would survive the election of 1800. we could talk more recently about 1968, about bill clinton's impeachment, the 2000 recount. you've been there. it seems like disunity has been with us forever. >> well, it has but i think we also have to recognize that today is a different time, the impact of social media, the impact of the ability to choose your own news. not only are we mad at -- do we disagree with the other side but we're mad about it and we think the other side has bad motives.
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baker had a saying that he taught all of us who ever came into his orbit, said always remember the other fellow might be right. and we have lost that today, and that beginning proposition that i at least want to hear your side. i have principles that i disagree with you on but i want to hear your side because i realize i could be wrong on this one. >> professor ali, so you talk about empathy and you talk about humanizing the person on the other side. i think we all strive to do that but there are certain views that are so repugnant, many of them have been put out in the open the last few years that it's hard to do that. it's hard to give someone the benefit of the doubt. how do you suggest people begin doing that? >> definitely not suggesting that we support authorizing environments for cruelty. we want to set positive norms over negative norms. one of the ways we do that is we make a commitment to each other, and that starts by pledging -- we have to listen to each other,
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including people that we consider to be the other, people who have been demonized in some instances for decades. we have to listen to them and we have to invite people into the public square and ask that people have a gross mentality over a scarcity mentality that's riddled by fear, and one thing i would just say that -- >> go ahead, professor. >> i'm sorry, go ahead, there was a delay. >> i was going to say, no worries, we're deeply polarized right now and we have to understand the causes. and the root causes for that polarization but we're not going to be able to do that unless we actually listen to each other. >> so i apologize, professor. somebody was talking into my ear, i heard a pause, a meteor came across the set. a lot of things happened at the same time. i apologize for the interruption. jon meacham give us examples, tip and reagan had a rule at 6:00 politics was behind them,
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they became friends. and talked through any problems they had during the day. can you give us -- give americans reason to hope? i mean, nobody would call reagan, no conservative would call reagan a wimp, could you give us some examples of other republicans and democrats in our lifetimes that have worked together? >> i'll give you 80 years of it. from 1933 to 2017 we lived and fought, but we lived and governed on a spectrum from franklin roosevelt to ronald reagan, and every president from 1933 until president obama basically governed in a coherent universe. it was ferocious. it felt divided. it was divided. but ultimately each of those presidents, each of those congresses prevailed in the end to make us a more perfect union. we fought over a tax rate here. we fought over the nature of identity and civil rights. we fought over the relative
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projection of force against commonly agreed upon foes and rivals but it was a coherent conversation. and most importantly, i think one of the reasons conservatives are as upset as they are is that ronald reagan and george herbert walker bush and george w. bush actually governed on that field. i think that field, which produced civil rights, produced voting rights, produced increased opportunities for women, the country's always worked out for people who look like me and you, joe, right, we do okay. the task of the democracy now is to ensure that we expand the definition of the declaration and we do it in a way that we can look back on this era and say we overcame this fracture. >> well said, john, we're going to let you stay at vanderbilt for another day based on this appearance alone. we've only scratched the surface here. we'd love to have you all back and talk more about this and dig deeper. co-chairs of the new vanderbilt project on unity and american
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democracy. jon meacham, bill haslan and professor summer ali. thank you for being with us this morning. that does it for us, stephanie ruhle picks up the coverage right now. i'm stephanie ruhle live at msnbc headquarters in new york city, it is thursday, february 4th. let's get smarter. this morning it is getting very messy inside the gop's so-called big tent after that remarkable hours long meeting that wrapped overnight. it was the culmination of two very big fights that could end up defining this party for years to come. the attempt to remove liz cheney from leadership, and the extraordinary lengths republicans are willing to go to to protect freshman marjorie taylor greene. let's talk about why. remember, congresswoman cheney was under fire -- under pressure for voting to impeach donald trump. bu t

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