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tv   All In With Chris Hayes  MSNBC  February 4, 2021 5:00pm-6:00pm PST

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montgomery bus boycott. her activism went beyond that. for more than 30 years, she worked to reform our judicial system so black women who were assaulted could have confidence they would be heard. a fight that continues today. tonight on "all in" -- >> i urge my colleagues to look at that image and tell me what message you any it sends. >> history in the house of representatives. >> this is about whether it is okay to encourage the murder of the speaker of the house. >> tonight, the bipartisan vote to sanction a republican member for extremist remarks and espousing violence and what it means for the country going forward. house managers call donald
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trump to testify. will the impeached ex-president's attornes cancel his testimony? what we are learned in the wake of the capitol attack. my interview with senator warren on the fast start from the biden administration and her push to keep it going when "all in" starts right now. good evening from new york. just over an hour ago, the house of representatives voted to strip republican congresswoman marjory taylor greene of her committee assignments. this is a rare occurrence. it might be unprecedented. we can't tell. it looks like we can't find an actual precedent for this. in all the recent instances when all this has happened, when members were removed from committees by their own parties, it happened because the party removed them instead of the
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house. the threat of removal from the whole house did not stop congresswoman greene from the racist and violent conspiracy theories that got her into this situation in the first place. yesterday, she was throwing around conspiracy theories like democratic members marry their own brothers. today greene came forward to do what i would characterize as the minimal amount of performance necessary to give fellow republicans the excuse to vote on her behalf. she put forth a rambling diatribe of lies and false equivalencies and half truths that included the incredible bit of rhetoric from the well of the house. i quote her, i also want to tell you that 9/11 absolutely happened. thank you for that, congresswoman. glad we could confirm that. she lied about the things she said and supported and when she said them. she didn't address or apologize for the most problematic stuff. her violent rhetoric including saying on video that speaker nancy pelosi could be executed for treason.
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all but 11 republicans voted to support greene, which is more defections than anyone expected. still, pretty good example of the one thing that unifies the other 199 members of the house republican party. all they have is being against the libs. you get past that, there are divisions inside the party as seen by 61 people in a secret ballot trying to unseat a member of leadership for the audacity of voting to impeach a president who summoned an insurrectionist mob where they were. if a caulk where the majority voted to overturn a democratic election. there are divisions in the party with the marjory taylor anti-democracy wing. the one thing that could unify them is opposition to liberalism. that is what it's all about for them. the problem is, that's all built on a foundation of sand. what does the republican stand for making sure the libs
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don't control things? a few months ago, in the wake of the election, it was the democratic party that looked like a fractured coalition. do you remember that? they were expecting big pickups in the house and they lost a bunch of seats. there were immediate recriminations, internal debates about the source of the losses with front line members in swing districts blaming progressive members for de-fund the police. there was frustration at some senate candidates who raised money did not perform better. three months later, democrats have a house majority, managed to win the senate with those improbable runoff wins in georgia. they have everyone from the most progressive to most conserative united by the big first item of the biden presidency, a covid relief package and has buy-in from everyone. it's really quite a turn about from where things looked like they were headed a few months
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ago. today, house democrats spoke out in unity to condemn a woman whose past views are so delusional and so dangerous. >> i do not hear an apology or denouncement for the claim, the insinuation that political opponents should be violently dealt with. i didn't hear anybody apologize or retract the anti-semitic and islamaphobic remarks posted over and over. >> her world views are anti-black, racism, anti-semitic. they are condoned. every single day that goes by without outright condemnation from every republican colleague without consequences for her extremist views is an outright endorsement of white supremacy. >> this is not about one member. this is about who we are as a body and what we are as a
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democracy. this is about whether it is acceptable to cheer on and encourage an insurrection against our basic democratic process. this is about whether it is okay to demand members swear in on a bible of religion they do not practice. this is about whether it is okay to hold an assault rifle next to members' heads in a campaign ad and incite death threats against them. >> i cannot sit by and allow white supremacy and hatred to have power over our students' futures. to my republican colleagues, let history remember what you did in this moment. a prerequisite for appointment to these committees and for all that we do must be that you love and represent all people, meaning all people. >> i stand here to tell you, i will stand up to bullies. bullies who threaten students and threaten and celebrate the violence towards our speaker and
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our colleagues. today and, yes, as a conscience of the congress, it is important that we take this step to affirm that conspiracy theories and outrageous lies have no place in the congress. no place in the people's house. no place, no place. >> no parent should ever have to invite a member of congress to visit their child's grave or touch the bullet-ridden clothing that their child wore to prove that their death actually happened. mr. speaker, the speaker of this house always tell members to vote our district. today, i vote as an act of conscience in defense of my district. i vote for the babies who left for school eight years ago and never returned home and the teachers who died trying to protect them. >> hoyer closed it with a
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speech. >> the conduct we are judging today continued to occur even after representative greene became a candidate and even after she was elected. mr. speaker, i urge my colleagues to look at this image. they are not "the squad." they are alexandria. they are rashida. they are people. they are our colleagues. the worst nightmare.
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yes, some people are having nightmares. and fear. and some people, who wanted to give other people nightmares, committedsedition. >> that woman there holding the gun is the woman 199 house republicans voted to support in the unified democratic party along with 11 republicans stripped her of her power. i'm joined by one of the democrats you heard on the floor, congresswoman hayes of connecticut who is on the house education labor committee and represented the new town community where the sandy hook shooting took place. it seemed extremely emotionally fraught and intense today. what was it like in there?
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>> it was incredibly emotional for me. i was thinking about my constituents and the people back at home, because as you can imagine, this is deeply personal for the people in connecticut, for the people in new town. just to hear my republican colleagues come up with a string of what about-isms and excuses for why, never saying she should be placed on a committee, but deflecting to so many different arguments was incredibly emotional on the floor today. >> you know, it struck me as i watched this today that part of what was happening -- i would like to hear your response to this -- is that the house hasn't grappled with what happened on january 6th in any formal way. the fact that a majority of republicans voted to overturn a democratic election, the fact that a mob of violent
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insurrectionists threatened the lives of people you work with. there hasn't been any institutional processing of that. it felt like this vote on marjory taylor greene was standing in as a proxy for that. >> i would say i agree with you. you are absolutely right. i myself am still processing the events of january 6th. this wound is reopened over and over and over again. i heard people talk about the merits of the election or the events of january 6th, the fact that violent words incited the actions of january 6th, all of this really is playing in the back of members' minds as we attempt to legislate. and you saw impacts of that play out on the floor. i do not know if the turnout
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been different had members not had in their recent memory just the final result of inciteful words. >> final question for you is the precedent this sets. it's true that this is -- we don't know if it's been done before. as far as we can tell, this is new and unprecedented. it's true that when republicans say, you know, you are setting a precedent here and watch out in the future, what is your response? >> i think it's a more dangerous precedent to let members' violent rhetoric and hateful words go unchecked. that's the dangerous precedent set. i don't think this happened before. within a couple hours, i had 130 of my colleagues who signed on to say that she should not be seated on committees. i think the fact that the republican leader placed her on the committee of education and labor was just an insult to many of my colleagues. i can tell you, there were
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democrats who had issue with this, who struggled, who did not want to disrupt proper procedure or protocol. but for the fact that the republicans refused to act and placed her on the committee of education and labor, every parent, every teacher, every community member, every person who is still reeling from the fact that we have a problem with mass shootings in our country, specifically on school grounds, and we need to address those problems, i think was the impetus that led many of my colleagues, both republican and democrat, to say, enough. >> congresswoman hayes, representative from connecticut. thank you so much for your time tonight. >> thanks so much, chris. for more on the state of the gop, i want to bring in the chief strategist for the
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bush/cheney presidential campaign. my over under was probably five. i was surprised that there were 11 votes. what was your reaction? >> i wasn't that surprised. i thought it would be in the neighborhood of 7 to 10. it ended up at 11. obviously, the story isn't the 11 that stood for principal. it's the 199 that didn't and who welcomed a 21st century political typhoid mary into their midst, spreading -- being a carrier of disease that's infected the entire republican party for a lengthy period of time. it's not just -- one of the things, chris, we don't focus on enough is what's behind all this. what is the original sin of all of this that has led us here? it's not a denial of the school shootings. it's not a denial that joe biden won. it's not a denial that 9/11
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happened. it's a denial of words in our original document which is truth that all men are created equal. that's what's led us here. we never dealt with that disease in our country. >> there was a vote today that was a public vote in which you have 199 members of the republican party voting to keep marjory taylor greene. yesterday, you had another vote about exile. it was about liz cheney, who is number three in leadership, whether she be kicked off leadership. it was secret. 61 republicans that wanted to kick her off for the sin of voting to impeach the president. what i found striking is, so much of the interpretation of house republicans and republicans in general is about the political calculations they are making. they don't want to cross with donald trump. this was a secret ballot. people need to take seriously of the beliefs of the republican party as driving this.
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>> this is not about donald trump. so many people talk about the fear of donald trump. the republican leaders and ready elected officials aren't -- donald trump is a proxy. don't trump is a proxy for the 80% or 85% of the republican party that believe by and large what marjory taylor greene believes. they believe that. the fear is a republican primary voter who is more alligned with marjory taylor greene than liz cheney, that's the fear. i think that's the problem in america. we have a major party supported by millions of americans, millions of americans, not a majority but millions of americans who have the same set of beliefs. you can get rid of donald trump, cast him out as a pariah, put him in florida. it didn't solve the problem in america today. a smarter, more competent version of donald trump will arise and be more dangerous. that's hard to believe be more dangerous to the country.
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>> i guess what the question is, what does solve it? some kind of gatekeeping, some kind of -- have the fight out, have it out is the only solution, i think. i'm looking at this as an outsider. that's what it looks like to me. >> i mean, i think there's many small things we can do. i think ultimately we have to deal with what's really behind this. which is we never held the people who wanted slavery accountable and responsible. we never told the truth in the aftermath. when reconstruction failed, by and large because lincoln was killed, when reconstruction failed, it led to more than 100 years where we got to civil rights. you can draw a straight line as i said before, you can draw a line between the failure of reconstruction and the inability to tell the truth about our country through, all the way up to heather hyer.
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that's the truth americans have to face. that's going to resolve our problems when we face the truth. there's a segment of the population that does not believe all men and women in america are created equal. that's the fundamental problem. >> matthew, speaking my language with the reconstruction riff. thank you very much. i appreciate it. >> you are welcome. impeachment managers publically call their first witness, donald j. trump. will we see the impeached former president testify at his own trial? that's next. i bought this turtle from stole all of my info. ooh, have you looked on the bright side? discover never holds you responsible for unauthorized purchases on your card. (giggling) that's my turtle. fraud protection. discover. something brighter.
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a second impeachment trial, donald trump starts early next week. the only witness that has been called publically is donald trump himself. he is not complying. earlier today, lead impeachment manager raskin sent trump a letter. two days ago you denied many allegations set forth in the article of impeachment. you have attempted to put critical facts at issue notwithstanding the evidence of your offense. in light of your disputing these allegations, i write to invite you to provide testimony under oath before or during the senate impeachment trial concerning your conduct. trump denied he lied when he repeatedly attacked the legitimacy of the election and
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asserted he didn't attempt to subvert the election results. the house did not call any witnesses when it quickly impeached trump for inspiring the insurrection. they want the defendant to testify in the trial. hours after they made the request, bruce castor called it a publicity stunt. i'm joined by dan goldman who was counsel into the first impeachment. what's your reaction? >> i think it's a very smart, strategic move by the house managers. i will tell you why. i don't think donald trump will be subpoenaed. he would not have been subpoenaed at all. no president has ever been subpoenaed while acting as president. i think the same issues, the separation of powers issues would probably still apply to someone who was so recently in office. i don't think that that would
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happen. i this it would be litigated forever. i do not believe the managers of the senate will vote to subpoena donald trump. what this does is it gives him an opportunity to say his side of the story under oath as any witness would. the biggest issue is for the defense and for trump is it's going to hamstring his lawyers from arguing what trump's state of mind was, what his intent was, what he knew about, because trump himself was given the opportunity to testify and he did not take it. his lawyers can then not just cherry pick whatever they want to say about what trump felt at the time. that's the ultimate hearsay. it's not permissible in any court in any land. it's a smart, strategic move given i don't think they will subpoena him. ultimately, he won't testify. this to hem in the trump lawyers and what their arguments can be.
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>> i hadn't thought of that. that's a great point. so much of this will revolve around -- there's the president's actions and then there are words and then there's some of the state of mind. when he is sitting there at the tv watching an unprecedented assault by americans on their seat of government to violently prevent the transfer of power and he is desperately being reached out to by republican and democrats alike to call it off, what's going through your head, dude? you like it? you watching it? that's very much at issue with respect to the article of impeachment, right? >> yeah. the better example would be for his lawyers to get up and say, donald trump had no idea that this violent attack was planned. he never expected it. when he said peacefully, that's what he thought was going to happen. he had no idea. that's not permissible for a
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lawyer to just argue about their client. that's not evidence. the evidence would have to come from the client. so by giving him the opportunity to do that, they can't argue as they would be able to, well, you didn't give us a chance to make a presentation in the house before you impeached, unlike every other former president, and then you didn't give us a chance here, so this is the only way we have to do it. >> trump's lawyer said that the president won't testify, that the focus will be on the claim that the trial itself is unconstitutional. it will be a constitutional argument that you can't do this. they are not going to litigate the election fraud. what do you think about the broader issue of witnesses and the duration of this undertaking? >> i have been saying that i think even though, in the ordinary circumstance, the house impeachment managers would want witnesses, the democrat senators would want witnesses, i think under the circumstances where donald trump is not in office
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and there are many, many things that president biden wants to do, witnesses would significantly prolong this trial. you have a lot of compelling evidence from the public record, from video of the scene itself, of the rally, of social media, parlor videos of the protesters marching. in many respects, you don't really need witnesses. i was struck by the reporting by nbc news tonight at how unprepared donald trump lawyers seem to be. the only defense they have is the one that the republican senators have already teed up for them with the 55-45 vote last week. there seems to be no other substantive defense. they don't know who is making presentations. someone is gathering a list of potential witnesses together. they have a brief in response to the house's 80-page brief due monday. they are then going to have to make a presentation. they don't seem well prepared to me. but they are smart in the sense
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they are picking up on where the republican senators were, and they will try to ride that i think incorrect legal argument all the way to an acquittal. >> yeah. dan goldman, it's the old joke about, supreme court, can you count to five? can they count enough republican no votes? we will see. dan goldman, thanks for being with me tonight. >> thank you. coming up, a congresswoman on what she learned in the first hearing about domestic terrorisms since the attack on the capitol. she joins me next. s me next. we need to reduce plastic waste in the environment. that's why at america's beverage companies, our bottles are made to be re-made.
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some news today that far right extremist groups are joining forces. the leader of a private paramilitary group formed alliances with other far right groups to push for georgia's
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cessation. they underscored the danger they pose when they indicted two members of the proud boys on conspiracy to obstruct congress on january 6th because they travelled to washington, quote, in order to stop, delay and hinder the certification of joe biden's election. there's discussion how to respond to this kind of violence. many groups from across the spectrum have warned against importing the framework of counterterrorism to these challenges. in a house hear today, a congresswoman talked about shifting our mental model to confront the threat of domestic violence, extremist and insur -- insurrection. >> for me as someone who worked on preventing terrorist attacks on the united states, i believe the post 9/11 era is over. january 6 is the cap of one of one and the beginning of another that makes clear that the most
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dangerous threat right now to us as americans, physical, is the division between us and the way that some are exploiting those divisions. >> she joins me now. i want you to explore further a little bit of what you said in that statement there. i have to say that as someone who reported on the war on terror and counterterrorism and what came out of 9/11, there was a lot that was bad in terms of civil liberty, foreign policy, the people still sitting in guantanamo 20 years later, still without trial. i see a lot of people -- i'm one of them. the hair on their neck stands up when we think about 9/11 and what came after. i want to -- how you think through these threats and what we are confronting now. >> sure. i think it's a really important point. when we talk about domestic
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terrorism, it's foundational. it's about our fellow americans. for someone like me who lives in michigan, it's my neighbors, people in my town, it's my community. it's very important we don't just overlay, particularly some of the worst lessons from the war on terror, on our fellow americans. there are things that -- lessons learned we should bring forward. as you said, we shouldn't overreact. january 6 was a monumental event, it was generational. after 9/11, we did a lot of things out of emotion. we moved very quickly. we allowed certain things that we normally wouldn't. it's important we don't overreact. i think it's important we also realize just similarly to 9/11, we don't have the intelligence community looking at the threat appropriately. january 6th was an intelligence failure of some kind. either we knew about it and we didn't prepare enough or we weren't paying attention enough to the threat of violence. i think we need to get our intelligence community and our authorities aligned.
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that doesn't mean necessarily that we do it without an eye toward civil liberies and civil rights. we learn the right lessons and don't just overlay that on americans in our communities. >> two thoughts come to mind. one is that there were americans also who were caught up in the first -- in post 9/11 era, often unfairly. second of all, when you talk about the tools available, i think about what happened in michigan. had you individuals plotting to kidnap and possibly execute the governor of your state. essentially good police work by the fbi in accordance with the constitution, pursuant to warrants, was able to find them and apprehend them and charge them before they could do it. that seems like the sort of thing we want to see happen here.
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>> yeah. i think we did excellent work in that. that was a lot of those raids took place in my district. it also is very clear that some of the laws that are on the books aren't being used. i think 29 states, we have anti-militia laws. most attorneys general haven't been exercising that authority for many years. we have a whole network of laws and authorities that we just aren't exercising. some of this may just be a clear voice from the department of justice, from the fbi that we will focus on threats appropriately. it's clear today in our hearing that there's going to be this debate about whether we need a domestic terrorism law. it's going to be a sporty debate. >> where are you leaning? >> i mean, for me i've been doing learning and briefing about this. as you said, it does seem there are a lot of overlapping authorities.
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even today, we heard people thinking about using rico, the step we helped exploit and use to get at the mob. there's lots of different ways we can skin this cat. for me, a new domestic terrorism law should be an item of last resort. if we can use top down guidance, i would prefer that. >> i'm curious about this is like in your district. when you talk about, you are in a swing district, some of the raids happened in your district. you are now chairing this subcommittee. this notion among some people -- it's cultivated of you are trying to essentially use the state against my politics because you don't like them. >> yeah. i mean, listen, we have been dealing with this thing for almost a year in michigan. we had armed protesters push their way into our capitol in april. what we saw on the 6th was not new, certainly in mid michigan in my district, in the state.
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i think we have to be careful. i think there's a lot of groups who will say both on the right and left that we don't want to use the new authorities or look at new authorities if it's going to mean targeting our fellow americans. i have heard from a lot of civil liberties groups who say you are going after one group. it's a hop, skip and jump until you come for me. we have to be thoughtful about how we do this, which is i think more than what we did in the very beginning on the war or terror. we have to be more thoughtful. >> congresswoman, who was in the hearing today, thank you for making time tonight. >> thank you. don't go anywhere. my interview with senator elizabeth warren on some of the most progressive pushes in the administration. we will talk taxing the rich ahead. stration we will talk taxing the rich ahead. so i like to walk. i'm really busy in my life; i'm always doing something. i'm not a person that's going to sit too long. in the morning, i wake up and the first thing i do is go to my art studio.
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in the post trump era, the republican party is trying to find itself, even redefine
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itself. one outfit is being the party of the working class. substantively, this is ludicrous on its face. republicans supported the enormous trump tax cut for billionaires. they are arguing against higher unemployment and stimulus checks. it's true, the republican party's voters are more working class than they once were. we get working class hero dress-up. jim jordan of ohio tweeted this yesterday. the republican party is no longer the wine and cheese party, it's the beer and blue jeans party. missouri senator josh hawley argued just before the election, republicans should continue the work of donald trump in transforming the party for the working class. >> the president tried to make the republican party a working class party, the party of normal, everyday voters, those who don't have a job on wall street, those who don't want to go start a tech company, maybe those who don't have a four-year college degree, which is 70% of
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americans. we have a battle to make this a part of working class america. >> the next day hawley, prep school grad, decided the battle was over declaring, we are a working class party. that's the future. then there's ted cruz, trying to realign his party with working people and a dual ivy league graduate. >> the first week in office, what does joe biden do? he signed an executive order entering the keystone pipeline, destroying 11,000 jobs, 8,000 union jobs with the stroke of a pen. the democratic elites have decided that blue collar workers, that union members, men and women with calluses on their hands, they have made the wrong choices. if you are a working person in this country, if you are a union member, if you are blue collar,
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if you have calluses on your hands, a cop or a firefighter or a waiter or waitress or construction worker, this democratic party doesn't care about you. >> i will note that ted cruz's blue collar shtick is the funniest of the three. he is less happy with the union bosses exploiting the pandemic and barring students from attending public schools. if they really do care about working people and they hate big, bad corporate america, particularly big tech, here is a great test. there is a unionization drive happening right now at amazon. just about the epitome of big business in america, big tech, corporate power. workers at a warehouse in alabama are doing something incredible and brave and difficult. they will begin voting next week on whether to join the retail wholesale and department store union. it will be the first union
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election at an amazon warehouse since 2014. here is a question. do cruz, hawley and jordan support those working americans? if the republican party really wants to be the party of the working class and unions, that's great. it has to mean something. here is a simple test, gentlemen. go on the record with your support for the workers fighting for their rights against amazon right now. otherwise, we will go back to assuming this is all an insulting act. don't go anywhere, my interview with senator elizabeth warren with her fight to help working americans after this. ers ♪ ♪ when the chapstick goes on. it's on. get yours on at chapstick.com
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joe biden did not run to the left of the democratic party in the primary. i think it's safe to say. in fact, it was the opposite. i he ran as the centrist in the race, the electoral republicans would never be able to tag as a socialist. there was a question about what that would mean when it came
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down to governor. just over two weeks into his presidency, biden's presidential approach thus far already shows just how much the ideological center of the democratic coalition has shifted. biden's kept his promise on things like rejoining the paris climate accords, canceling the keystone pipeline. he's gone out of his wade to making pro-labor staffing changes at the nlrb and ordered partial deportation moratorium. just today comes news the administration is ending support for the disastrous and cruel saudi-led war in yemen and they'll be increasing the number of refugees the u.s. takes up to 125,000. and on the biggest legislative push, covid relief, biden's approach has been bigger and less constrained by self-imposed concerns about austerity and debt than the obama/biden administration was just 12 years earlier. while president biden talks very much like a centrist, his actions so far reflect a new emerging consensus within democratic party politics. democratic senator elizabeth warren of massachusetts, one of
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the most significant progressive voices in congress, now has a seat on the senate finance committee and she joins me now. and senator, first, i'd like to get your grade, your assessment and reaction to these first few weeks of the biden presidency. >> well, keep in mind, joe biden ran on the most progressive agenda ever. and now he is meeting the moment and we need to continue to hold everyone accountable to the promises that have been made. it's a good time. >> you're on the finance committee. and my understanding is that it's new and you're very excited about that. for people that are not familiar with the terrain of senate committees, what is the -- why did you want to be on that committee? >> wealth tax. social security. the money that we need in order to have childcare. medicare. it's all right there in the finance committee.
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you know, we talk a lot in this country, we talk a lot on your program, about inequality in our nation. and much of that inequality has gone forward through things that come through the finance committee like the huge tax cuts that went through at the beginning of the trump administration. but also much of how we combat inequality goes through that committee as well. medicare. the affordable care act. as i said, social security. so, i just think it's an important cross roads of how we build a future. you know, for me, taxes are ultimately about our values. it's about who we say in this country needs to pay to help us build a future. and what that looks like. and finance committee, good place to do that. i'm happy. >> so i have a question about that on the wealth tax. so, i think there's a lot of
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really interesting literature behind the wealth tax, the one that you proposed during the primary. you've talked about introducing it as legislation. here's my question for you. do you think of it as a means of raising revenue or a means of attacking inequality and getting rid of certain perverse incentives which is to say the following, if the deficit were totally balanced, if the government didn't need any more revenue or if taxes weren't even necessary to fund the government in some alternate universe, would you still want the wealth tax? >> yes. and let me explain why. the wealth tax is important in both parts. it's critical for raising revenue and that revenue is critical for raising opportunity because that's what this is really about. right now, we live in an america that is so tilted toward the rich and the powerful.
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the top .1 of 1% are paying -- last year -- about 3.2% of their total wealth in taxes. the 99% paid about 7.2% of their total wealth. in other words, more than half. and when the top is not paying a fair share, that's how we end up as a nation that's not making an investment in universal childcare and universal pre-k, an america that's not making an investment in our young people who are trying to get an education, k-12, and post-high school in technical school and two-year college and four-year college. it's about making sure that we're a country that doesn't just work for a tiny little thin slice at the top but a country that genuinely is investing in opportunity so that all of our kids have a chance to build a
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strong future. that's what it's about. >> one of the other big issues during the primary was student loan debt and both sort of perspectively and retroactively, so creating conditions under which people can go to college and not pay through the nose and not be in sort of debt servitude, but also canceling debt that is weighing people down. i know you've been advocating for that and think that there's the legal mechanism -- senate majority leader chuck schumer as well -- to cancel a large amount of student debt through executive action. the arguments against it are legal and political. so i'll give them to you both and you can respond. one, that this would be an overstep of executive power and that secondly, would just create a kind of class-based backlash, right, that would enshrine the democratic party as people that care most about folks with college degrees at the expense of everyone else. what are your responses to those two arguments? >> let's do the legal argument first. keep in mind that the obama
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administration canceled student loan debt. the trump administration canceled student loan debt. and nobody said they don't have the power to do that. >> right. >> all leader schumer and i are asking for is now let's have the biden administration step up and we think they should cancel more but he clearly has the legal authority to do this. now, you want to talk about who's going to get helped, keep in mind 40% of the people who are dealing right now with student loan debt do not have a college diploma. these are people who did what we wanted them to do. they tried. but for one reason or another, they couldn't make it. maybe because they were working three jobs. maybe because another baby was born. but for whatever reason, they didn't make it all the way through to their diploma and that means these are people right now who are earning what a high school grad can earn but who are struggling -- >> right. >> -- with student loan debt. we cancel $50,000 worth of
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student loan debt and what that will mean is that 85% of those who are struggling with student loan debt right now, about 40 million people, will see their student loan debt completely wiped out. and the rest will see a big hunk of it cut away. and here's the thing. that's not only good for the people who have student loan debt. in fact, it's life transformative for them. but it's good for everybody else who doesn't have student loan debt. >> yep. >> and the reason for that is it helps boost the whole economy. we get more people buying homes. we get more people starting small businesses. that student loan debt is holding back our economy. this was true long before the pandemic came along. we get people shaken free from that student loan debt. and we have an economy that is stronger, more robust. number one thing that president biden can do right now for this economy, cancel $50,000 worth of
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student loan debt. the number one thing he could do for young people, cancel student loan debt. the number one thing he can do to help close the black/white wealth gap, is cancel $50,000 worth of student loan debt. it would be transformative for families and transformative for this nation. >> senator elizabeth warren of the state of massachusetts, thank you so much for making time tonight. >> ah, thank you for having me. >> that is "all in" on this thursday night. "the rachel maddow show" begins right now. good evening, rachel. >> good evening, chris, thanks, my friend. much appreciated. thanks to you at home for joining us this hour. some very exciting news today. the former vice president has a job. not the former former vice president who's now president, no, i mean the immediate former vice president mike pence. the heritage foundation has announced that former vice president mike pence is going to go work there. he said today, "the heritage

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