tv Morning Joe MSNBC February 11, 2021 3:00am-6:00am PST
very much for being here this morning. we really appreciate it. after reliving through the horrible day learning more about what happened, i want to take a personal moment to say thank you to the capitol police, national guard, mpd officers who protected all of us on that day. they put their lives on the line. they went through horrible, horrible things to keep all the rest of us safe. thank you. and thanks to all of you for getting up "way too early" with us this morning. don't go anywhere. "morning joe" starts now. >> you have about 50 charging up the hill on the north front just north of the stairs. they're approaching the wall now. >> they are throwing metal poles at us. >> they're give me dso up here
now. dso. multiple law enforcement injuries. dso, get up here. . >> we're going to give riot warnings. we're going to try to get compliance. but this is mao effect liveively a riot. >> we need units. we're rounded. >> cruiser 50 they've breached the skoflds. let capitol know they have breached the scaffolds. we're still take rocks, battles, and pieces of flag and metal pole. they have bear spray in the crowd. >> we're flanked we have lost the line. . >> we have been flanked and we have lost the line. the moment it became an uncontrollable riot that would eventually breach the building. the call was part of new
evidence released yesterday in the impeachment trial of former president donald trump. it is part of the remarkable, riveting, horrifying evidence, joe and willie, that we saw laid out yesterday in incredible detail as moment by moment went by and the capitol was breached and then entered and rioted by these hordes of people. here now is house manager eric swalwell showing body cam tpaopblg of the crowd attacking an officer as he protected the west entrance to the capitol. and a warning very early this morning this video is disturbing.
>> this body camera is from 4:27 p.m. over two hours from when the capitol was first breached. the attack on police that afternoon was constant. >> joe, i just want to know, as this played out for hours and hours and senators were listening to this and watching it, some of it for the first time, can you imagine, can you imagine one of them sitting in the gallery with his feet up reading magazines or unrelated material during this unbelievable presentation of what happened to our u.s. capitol that day? >> well, you have people that are clearly unfit. >> that was josh hawley.
>> unfit to serve in the united states capitol. in the united states senate. of course if you're josh hawley, you actually are the person who led the insurrection. you're the person most responsible, other than donald trump, for that insurrection. you're the person most responsible for a police officer being beaten to death. you're the person most responsible for the cop killing, for the cop beating, for the abusing. it is josh hawley who mitch mcconnell begged, begged to not do what he did. and it is josh hawley yesterday, as they are showing images of the vice president of the united states and his wife and his children in danger. capitol hill police officers being killed, being beaten,
being abused. the capitol of the united states being overrun by satisy agevage animals. those were trump terrorists. two hours after the riots began. two hours after, people started calling the president. an hour after people were begging the president from inside the capitol to call off the terrorists, to call off the attack. the president of the united states watching all of this gleefully, donald trump, thrilled by what he was seeing. the cop killers that he unleashed on the capitol. the seditionists that he unleashed on the united states senate. it was all part of a bigger
plan. and if you look at that body cam footage, we have never seen anything like that before in american history. but let me tell you what you are looking at there. you're looking at what happens when a sitting president, who is stripped of almost all of his powers and is desperate to cling onto power, unleashes a terrorist mob against the united states capitol, against another separate branch of government. willie, every day gets more damning. he is already damned by the voters. he is already damned by everything that he has done. it is republicans now who are sitting back, like rick scott who is saying that is just a
waste of time. after watching these cop killers go in and savage police officers. after watching this terrorist mob going in and brutalizing, brutalizing cops and threatening the lives of the republican vice president and his family, calling for his hanging, calling for his lynching, willie. and rick scott says -- this
called up memories for many of them. it showed new video. perhaps they didn't realize how close they were to be in the line of terrorists as they stormed the building. many of them came out and effectively shrugged their shoulders at what they saw. if you actually watched this video, if you listened to the testimony, to the argument from the house managers and were not moved in some way, then something is so dead inside you that you are beyond repair. if you're josh hawley making obviously an exhibition of himself by sitting up in the gallery, look at me, i've got my feet up. he could be at his desk like everybody else. or after watching you are rick scott and come out and call the proceedings a complete waste of time, saying it's vin particular
-- vin din active, saying we ought to be focused on the economy and getting the vaccine out and not confronting what happened to january 6th. if you are lindsey graham who said the presentation by house managers was, quote, offensive and absurd. he wasn't offended by what he saw -- >> what the hell? >> -- on the video. that is a tweet and quote from lindsey graham. offensive and absurd. you can't watch that presentation yesterday and realize how close we were to something so catastrophic for this country. you just can't. it is new video we saw. you can't watch the video and not understand that mitt romney, former nominee for president for the republican party if not for officer eugene goodman getting him to turn around, may not be here.
they killed a cop. blue lives matter. what would they do to the people they hate. mitt romney, who was standing in the way of donald trump remaining in the white house? what would they have done if they found all those people? thank god for those police >> we have the pull its swrer prize winning jon meacham. he occasionally advises president biden. and andrew weissman who served as chief of the criminal fraud section, general counsel for the fbi under corrector mueller, and a lead prosecutor in robert mueller's special counsel's office. he's now an msnbc legal analyst. and award-winning historical, professor, and writer keisha m. blain, an associate professor of history at the university of pittsburgh. it is good to have you all this morning. >> jon meacham, you obviously
talking about margaret shea smith, and have for years. and mccarthy and what side do these senators want to be on, and you're right. 70 years later, still a hero. columns are still written about her. her name constantly brought up as an example for all politicians. just because she stood up to a bully and thug that more caught up with after four, five years. but we doubt, all of us doubt that donald trump will be convicted in the end. though he certainly should be. any reasonable person would come to that conclusion. we know this, people like rick scott who say this is vindictive after saying everything. this is vindictive against donald trump.
lindsey graham claiming after watching cop killers terrorize members of the united states senate, terrorize capitol hill police officers, terrorize mike pence's family and call for their lynching. lindsey graham calling the presentation offensive. these are members engaged in doublespeak who have already convicted themselves in the eyes of history. there is nothing they can do now. they have convicted themselves as guilty in the eyes of history of being accessories to this seditious act by now trying to cover it up. >> yeah. what history tells us and what experience tells us is that as president reagan once said, every generation is one generation away from losing liberty. we were one, two, half dozen or
more brave police officers from losing possibly dozens or more lives in the capitol. what you saw yesterday, we watched some of it live january 6th. but you saw not just the power of story, but the power of reality. you know, what we were founded allegedly to be about. which was that in the enlightenment era, as imperfect as it was, after the scientific revolution, after guttenberg, after the reformations, after the notion that the world was going to be organized vertically, the popes and kings were going to run everything, no, no, america said we're going to do to try to do this equally. we have the capacity to organize
this for ourselves. that almost ended in this, you know, what -- to borrow a phrase from george w. bush, on a day of fire, which is what this was. i've resisted, joe, for five years now the analogies to the 1930s in europe. but i am reminded in alabama, during the age of george wallace in the early 1960s, the educated folks, the white liberals of alabama, particularly in montgomery, were reading william shirer, the rise and fall of the third reich, the white
supremacist violence that had become the ambient reality of their time. i think everybody in america should be reading the scholarship of what happened in europe in the 1930s. because it shows how seemingly civilized people, how close we are to madness. one final point, i was honored -- i had a call from a participant in the impeachment process a couple of days ago asking my opinion about the historical nature of this. how does this compare to andrew johnson. and i want to say publicly what i said privately. if you want to acquit the president because you don't think his words mattered, then if you're a conservative, is it your entire philosophy that
words matter? isn't that how you decide who is going to sit on the supreme court and the bench if words matter? if they don't, if fight like hell doesn't matter, which is where a lot of republican senators are apparently going to end up, does that mean when in the course of human event, does it matter? does it mean to create a more perfect union, does it matter? does it mean a house divided cannot stand, does it matter? does it mean we have nothing to fear but fear itself doesn't matter? does it mean i have a dream doesn't matter? does it mean we're a shining city on a hill doesn't matter? of course words matter. >> well, and, mika, it wasn't just the words of that day. it was a six-month rampump to
what happened. >> yeah. >> this is actually, like, trying to debate whether the sky is blue or not. it is so obvious that those trump terrorists went to the capitol because donald trump pushed them that way because donald trump's words encouraged them. it's why it's there. all of their liam defenses. because they followed donald trump. remove donald trump from the scene. again, what is done in court. remove donald trump from the cast of characters and ask yourself would this have happened. >> it's so obvious. >> it is so obvious, no. this only happened because donald trump for six months riled these people up and turned them into a pack of terrorists and cop killers. >> and used his presidential
platform to do so. it's obvious and it's heartbreaking. here is some of the new security camera footage that the house impeachment managers revealed yesterday showing just how close lawmakers and their staff came to the pro trump mob that stormed the capitol. >> you know how close you came to the mob. some of you, i understand, could hear them. but most of the public does not know how close these rioters came to you. as you were moving through that hallway, i paced it off. you were just 58 steps away from where the mob was amassing and where police were rushing to stop them. here in this video you see
leader schumer walking up a ramp, going up the ramp with his detail. he will soon go out of view. seconds later they return and start running down the hallway. and the officers use their bodies to keep them safe. >> officer goodman passes senator mitt romney and directs him to turn around in order to get to safety. on the first floor, just beneath them, the mob had already started to search for the senate chamber. you can see vice president pence and his family quickly move down the stairs. the vice president turns around briefly as he's headed down.
the mob was looking for vice president pence because of his patriotism, because the vice president refused to do what the president demand and overturn the election results. during the assault on the capitol, extremists reportedly coordinated online and discussed how they could hunt down the vice president. journalists in the capitol reported they heard rioters say they were looking for pence. in order to execute him. trump supporters had erected a gallos on the line in front of the capitol building. another group of rioters chanted, hang mike pence, as they stood in the open door of the capitol building. you can hear the security alarm from the door in the background.
and you can hear the mob calling for the death of the vice president of the united states. >> hang mike pence, hang mike pence, hang mike pence! >> oh, nancy, nancy, where are you, nancy? >> as you can see here, the staff moves from their offices, through the halls, and then enters a door on the right-hand side. that's the outer door of a conference room, which also has an inner door that they barricaded with furniture. the staff then hid under a conference room table in that inner room. in the security video, pay attention to the door that we
saw the staffers leading into and going into. one of the rioters you can see is throwing his body against the door three times until he breaks open that outer door. luckily, when faced with the inner door, he moves on. if you look closely, however, at the now infamous pictures of barnett with his feet on the desk, you might see something that you didn't notice previously. as this highlights, he is carrying a stun gun tucked into his waist band. the fbi identified it as a 9 50,000 volt walking stick. it could have caused serious pain and incapacitated anyone
who it came in contact with. >> that is part of the presentation that lindsey graham found, quote, offensive and absurd. and rick scott, the senator of florida, called a complete waste of time. they showed other incidents where president trump encouraged violence from his supporters. here's part of their presentation of the video of trump supporters in texas harassing a biden-harris campaign bus in october. >> the president of the united states in a campaign saw his own supporters trying to run a bus carrying his opponents campaign workers off the highway. to physically intimidate people in this country campaigning. here was his response the next day. >> three, two, one, go!
welcome to the wrecking ball ♪ >> donald trump's encouragement of this attack made sure his supporters were ready for the next one. the caravan bus attack had been organized by a trump supporters named keith lee. leading up to the attack on our capitol of january 6th, mr. lee teamed up with other supporters to fund raise to help to bring people to washington, d.c. for that day. the morning of the attack he filmed footage of the capitol, pointed out the flimsiness of fencing, and then addressed his supporters before the attack saying, quote, as soon as y'all
get done hearing the president, y'all get to the capitol. we need to surround this place. during the attack, he used the bullthorn call out for the mob to rush in. he later went to the rotunda himself and then back outside to urge the crowd to come inside. these are the people that president trump cultivated, who were standing by. >> dell state stacey plaskett of the virgin islands. this is to prove that donald trump,s then president donald trump incited an insurrection. how are they doing so far in that job with another day to go here? >> i think they're doing a great
job. i think it is necessary to show what actually happened. in other words, what the former president unleashed. but, as you said, in terms of the charge of incitement, it is necessary to show how this is connected to what donald trump either intended or was recklessly fomenting. and i think that some of the key evidence there is not just what happened, the buildup, which they have done a wonderful job showing you can't really start the timeline on january 6th. but if you look at this in the way of what would an innocent president have done? in other words, if this was not donald trump's intent. if he didn't think that this was what was going to happen and he didn't want it to happen, what would he have done? well, he would have said it's fine to protest on january 6th,
but he would have made it clear that he would have really stressed given that he knew so much about the propensity for violence of this group. and then on january 6th, it wouldn't have taken very long for him to be outspoken about quelling the violence, about sending in the national guard. and i think if you compare his actions to what an innocent person would have done, it makes it very clear that he is guilty of the charge that was lodged against him. >> you know, andrew, i was just going to ask you how we separate political speech. what have the impeachment managers done to make that separation between political speech and incitement. before i could ask you the question, i think back to the debate where he's asked to condemn the proud boys. and instead he tells them to stand by.
just stand by. there are so many examples of him celebrating violence. even back to the 2016 campaign, time and time again talking about carrying people out on stretchers. 2017, him celebrating a republican member of congress beating up a reporter for asking a question about health care reform. you could continue throughout his entire presidency the glorification of violence. you can talk about what he said about hillary clinton, stop her from appointing judges with a second amendment solution. he used violent rhetoric time and time again. it's hard to say this is just political speech. so do they need to present more evidence? >> well, i think it would be useful for them to stress what happened auto january 6th.
in other words, if the president was not only it shows his intent in terms of being reckless about what was going to happen, but it shows a dereliction of his oath of office. because he didn't take any of the steps for somebody who was sworn to fully and faithfully execute the laws seeing what's happened. you should not be rejoirejoicin. nobody with an ounce of patriotism who could look at the tapes we saw the last couple days and not be horrified. any normal trial, you need to separate the defendant, the former president, from the capitol. you need to say what happened there is horrific and we don't condone that. you need to say that is not what was'd. but to argue that the president didn't anticipate this was going to happen, is really, you know,
that is fake news. i don't mean to make light of it, but it reminds me of the scene from casablanca where claude shuts down the cafe to say i was shocked to say there was gambling going on and then a moment later counting his gambling winnings. for the president to say he didn't know this would happen after all we have seen, and he didn't take any immediate steps to quell the violence i think is really far-fetched. in any normal trial, court of law, i think that would carry the day. >> mika, just to give you one more window inside the minds of republican jurors, rick scott, in addition to his comments where he called the entire trial a waste of time went on to say, i watched what he said, speaking of donald trump at the ellipse
that day. he actually said people should do this peacefully. they are going to isolate that one word that one time that january 6th he said do this peacefully and disregard the months and months of other evidence. >> it's just ridiculous. here is how jamie raskin concluded his opening remarks yesterday. >> one of our capitol officers who defended us that day was a long time veteran of our force, a brave and honorable public servant who spent several hours battling the mob as part of one of the blue lines defending the capitol in our democracy. for several hours straight, as the marauders punched and kicked and mauled and spit upon and hit officers with baseball bats and fire extinguishers, cursed the cops and stormed our capitol, he
defended us and he lived every minute of his oath of office. and afterwards, overwhelmed by emotion, he broke down in the rotunda. and he cried for 15 minutes. and he shouted out, i got called an "n" word 15 times today. and then he recorded, i sat down with one of my buddies, another black guys in tears started streaming down my face. and i said what the f, man. is this america? that's the question before all of you in this trial. is this america? >> keisha blain, with all the shock and horror laid out for everybody to see and think about, it is really hard to separate race from this given that it is so obvious had this
been people of any other color storming the capitol, it would have been a very different scene. and that racial hatred, as jamie raskin just pointed out, pervaded what was happening there. . >> you're absolutely right. in fact, it's chilling, i think, even just to hear those words, is this america? because what immediately comes to mind for me is civil rights activist asking that very same question. is this america? in 1964. and asking that question before the democratic national convention. and at the time she was asking that question she was pointing out the challenges black people were facing in the nation, but particularly in the u.s. south, and talking about racial violence, talking about the intimidation and the terror because black people were trying
to exercise their right to vote as american citizens. and so it's striking now to hear those words again. and that question, is this america, because it really does allude to this larger history when we think about racial violence and certainly the deep roots of white supremacy in this country. >> is this america? jon meacham, you had brought up germany in the 1930s. i want to talk about germany in 1945. but first it is so damning. the most damning part of this is what happened while the attacks were going on for two hours. and the president had allies begging him to call off the terrorists. begging him to stop the assault of the united states capitol. but he had turned his mob
against the capitol. because he knew he was losing power. he knew that it was over. he knew the end was coming in 14 days. anybody who reads history, you can't help but look back and ask, well, what leaders have actually turned on their own countries, savage their own countries at the end. and you have to immediately go to the nero decree. so few have done it. hitler, in march of 1945, where hitler ordered his generals to turn their guns on germany out of spite because they had not done as well as he thought they should have done in the world.
to tear up railroads, factories. but donald trump turned his mob on something far more precious to us at least than railroad tracks or factories. he turned his mob against the seat of government. the first branch. the united states congress. there are no parallels in american history. no president has turned a mob against the united states government. outside of hitler, i can't think of too many other leaders throughout history who have actually turned their mobs or turned their troops against their own government when it was obvious they were being removed from power.
>> kwhrae. yeah. to me the closest comes to the civil rights, at least in most recent times. where the totalitarian white supremacist violence that shaped our native region was in fact, state sanctioned. jose williams, boykin and john lewis looking at at the top of the edmund pettus bridge when they looked down. they didn't see civilians. they saw deputies, posse men and troopers. they saw the power of the state being martialed against their fundamental human rights. and this is that on a grand scale, what happened on january 6th.
is you had in the president, and heading up to january 6th. you had the fear, as you just said, of losing power. white people in the civil rights movement feared losing power. so we, white people, in many ways, martialed vigilante violence to stop it. what president trump was doing was lying in a way segregation was a lie, based on a lie, lying about the election because he feared losing power himself. and the point of america. people say is this america? yeah, actually, it is. and we kid ourselves at our peril to think this isn't an important part of who we are.
the point, the mission is to make it a diminimus part of the country. what we saw in the last five years with this president is the worst part offing us went to center stage. >> professor blain, if this goes the way it appears it's going to go, listening to lindsey graham and rick scott and reasoning to ron johnson, and listening to josh hawley, and listening to marco rubio, and president trump is acquitted, despite everything we have seen and heard the last two days and we will see and hear again today, what will it say about us? what will be the long-term impact of this is if the is not held accountable for what happened january 6th? >> well, it would send a clear message that any future u.s.
president could do what donald trump did and get away with it. so it gives people license to essentially incite violence to know if they don't have their way, that if they don't win an election, all they have to do is rile up their base and hope that they can overturn the results through violence. history has taught us what took place january 6th follows a long line in terms of how political violence is used to suppress the voice for american citizens. and particularly people of color. it sets a dangerous precedent to be sure. and i suspect that is exactly what happened. and i certainly hope the outcome will be one where we can all say finally we took a stand. it's clear to me, just based on how people are responding
already, that it's likely that donald trump will walk away and not be charged at all. >> all right. professor keisha blain, thank you very much for being on this morning. she is coed tore of the new book entitled "four hundred souls" a community history of african-american 1619-2019. and "where law ends" inside the mueller investigation. and jon meacham, thank you as well. he, too, has a lot of books to mention. too many to mention at this point. >> read them all. >> still ahead on "morning joe", president biden avoided weighing in on the second impeachment trial. jonathan lemire spent the day at the white house yesterday and joins us with new reporting. plus, kasie hunt joins the conversation. after sitting in the senate chamber for day 2 of the trial.
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get a strategy gut check from our trade desk. ♪♪ it's 46 past the hour. a live look at the white house. just ahead on "morning joe", we'll be speaking with white house senior adviser for covid response, andy slavitt. let's bring in krpbz's dominic chew looking at the economic impact of the vaccine rollout. what do you have, dom? >> it's perhaps a good sign on so many tpraoupbts when you see stories about hiring spraoes. that is what is happening. there is a jobs impact for sure. the covid vaccine supplies are getting more widely distributed.
more professionals need to administer the shots. that big retail chains like cvs, wall greens and others, massive pharmacy operations, like grocery store, kroger. they are trying to get pharmacists and recruit staff recruited because they could be in high demand. they will send directly to pharmacy and grocery chains across across the country this week. finding qualified workers is a difficult task in many cases in those situations. in some cases there are signing bonuses in the thousands of dollars being doled out as incentives. perhaps it is a good sign. when you are seeing large companies, mid size and smaller, trying to ramp up and compete for people to administer the vaccines, they are doing so because they feel there will be a demand for it. that is a good sign because are wanting to get vaccines. that is the big case here, guys.
the idea is that there will be a massive hiring spree just to get the millions of people we need to get vaccinated. if you can go to wall greens or cvs, you can get millions vaccinated in one day. >> it could be a game changer. dom any chu, thank you very much. white house reporter for "the associated press", jonathan lemire. and nbc news capitol hill correspondent and host of "way too early", kasie hunt. kasie, you were there all day yesterday watching what happened at the place where you work. what was it like for you and what are your reflections from watching that incredible timeline of evidence laid out? >> yeah. i'm going to be honest with you, mika, incident was a really difficult day for everyone who is part of the capitol community. there are so many people. reporters are one piece of that.
cafeteria workers, janitors, staffers, police officers, and members of congress. and we all relived this day together watching this. and i think the hardest part of this new video that we keep seeing and saw so much of yesterday, you end up reliving and realizing, understanding that it could have been much worse than it actually was. in a lot of ways, that's retraumatizing. that's the strategy that the impeachment managers were using yesterday. because that message was aimed at the very senators who have power to make a decision about former president trump role in all of this. they had to watch video of their own desks being ransacked by these people as they sat at those desks. they had to look at pictures of a guy up in the senate gallery with zip ties. what do you use those for? to potentially take all of those
members hostage. mitt romney was shown on a map of the capitol just how close he came to potentially running into that mob. the reality is he likely would have been recognized, mika. >> you know, kasie, the reports that there were senators -- republican and democrat alike who left the chamber the past couple of days with red eyes, obviously deeply shaken. and that is certainly understandable. and yet we also hear stories of josh hawley doing paperwork up in the gallery while video of cop killers and police officers being besieged, police officers begging for help, being battered and abused, mocking that. mocking the riots that went on.
and people like lindsey graham that willie was talking about earlier, talking about how he was outraged by the presentation. rick scott saying it was a waste of time. saying it was vindictive versus donald trump. i'm curious the disconnect between these few people who want to run for president again and republican members of congress, including mitch mcconnell. it must be extremely strike --
willie, before i go to jonathan lemire, i'm just curious. rick scott, does he not care about cop killers? does he not care about the cops being killed? lindsey graham, does he not care about the cops being overrun yesterday? genuinely, i understand rick scott wants to run for president. i understand marco rubio wants to run for president again. i understand josh hawley wants to run for president. i understand ted cruz wants to run for president. do they think turning a blind eye on cop killers, seditionists, to the pain and agony -- by the way, all of this, they go around and they say support the blue. it's all b.s. >> yeah. . >> it's all b.s. they don't believe that. they are sitting there again
looking at riots, saying it's a waste of time to figure out why these cop killers, why these trump cop killers came to the united states capitol. the heart of democracy, obviously i think most americans agree with me. it is one of the most sacred places in america for our government. outside of religious institutions, it's one of the most sacred places in america. and they are -- they are dismissing this process. do they not care about the police officers that are killed? do they not care -- do they not want to get to the bottom of this, willie, and figure out why these cop killers rushed the hill? >> when you eliminate all the logical explanations for their behavior and their comments last night, you're left with, and i don't see this lightly, pure cowardice.
pure cowards. they're afraid of donald trump. despite that he is gone, lost the popular vote twice, lost the whose, house, and senate. they are afraid of him to the point where they can sit through that presentation yesterday, know that a cop was killed there, one was prone being beaten to the point where he had a mild heart attack, telling the attackers he has four daughters, asking they spare him. they can watch that and know that more than 100 officers were injured. they can watch that and know that staffs of their colleagues, perhaps their own staffs had to rush in to lock offices and hide under tables as terrorists beatdown their doors. they're so afraid of donald trump that they can't come out of that day and say what's true. they can't do it.
>> hillary clinton told joe biden not to concede. she does d that in an interview on the circus last august. he is equating that to what trump u did leading up to january the 6th. it is beyond disingenuous. it is pure cowardice. i don't see that lightly. i'm not flip about that. they're just a bunch of cowards. >> jonathan lemire, what was the white house's reaction to what happened yesterday? . >> well, publicly anyway, the white house is trying to ignore the proceedings. president biden said he won't be watching. i pressed jen psaki in the hearing yesterday. they are so traumatic for so many. why wouldn't the president want to weigh in on this national experience, this national moment we're all having. she and the administration pivots to the work he's doing behind the scenes. the focus is the pandemic.
trying to steer the covid-1919 relief bill in house committees, working to ramp up the vaccine distribution. we saw president biden turn to foreign policy. he announced new sanctions in burma. today i will be part of the press pool as he goes to nih and salutes dr. fauci and the front line workers. aides are being briefed. senior advisers are being updated. president biden is kept in the loop. and there is, joe, an understanding, a growing understanding that the president will have to weigh in at some point. it likely won't come until the end of the trial. we will have a verdict one way or the other. all signs indicate that donald trump will be acquitted. president biden will need to address that national moment. he will try to bring some sense of unity and healing.
it has hurt a lot of people, triggered a lot of folks who were there. and really called into question the very basis of the american experiment. but if donald trump gets up and says he's exonerated, innocent, and tries to enter the scene again, president biden will have to respond to that and bring the temperature down across the country. >> as we get closer to the hour, jonathan, let me ask you about a couple policy issues that bubbled up the past few days. let's talk about the opening of schools. health officials have said for the most part the opening of schools should be encouraged. dr. fauci himself suggested as much. the biden administration catching flack for dragging their feet. and a lot of people are now suggesting that they are following the dictates of teachers unions.
and they trodded out one day a week, three students one day a week in a city of 15 million. i exaggerate, of course. but it certainly what jen psaki trotted out a couple days ago a far stretch from what joe biden wants. with health officials saying children need to be back in school. are they going to listen to the teachers unions, or are they going to listen to health officials. . >> the schools have not been particularly high sources of transmission. they have been safe places. for adequate ventilation and social distancing, schools have been safe and so many american parents of course want their children to be back there. the biden administration has caught real criticism on this.
they seem to not be living up to the goals that president biden first set out. yes, press secretary jen psaki said the sheer number of schools they're talking about narrowed the younger kids as opposed to the older kids. that alienated some parents. and, yes, one day a week for a certain percentage would be enough for some students to hit their threshold. they are still appreciating forward. this is still a major centerpiece of their plan. it does seem right now they are behind on that. and that's something they have taken criticism for. as we see cities like chicago and philadelphia have real issues. there is a sense they are reluctant to challenge teachers unions to put teachers back in classrooms. >> come back come. maybe we can talk about something else the boston red sox sell. bats and baseballs.
they are selling everything else. thank you so much for being with us. willie, i want to follow up. let's just say it like it is. you know, the biden administration, joe biden could not -- cannot attack donald trump for not listening to health care officials? when he is scared of teachers unions, he can't not listen to health care officials who are saying it's time to go back to school. this retreat a couple of days ago, i'm sorry, there's not another word for it. it was pathetic. and it leaves a lot of parents out to dry. again, health care officials are now saying that children need to go back to school. it's nearly unanimous. the biden administration has no other option than to follow health care officials, do they? >> no. well, they have been incredibly slippery on this issue. remember, it was the head of the cdc who came out about a week and a half ago and said at a
white house briefing, this was not a private conversation, that she believed it was safe for schools to be open, as long as we had social distancing and masking in place. so then jen psaki was asked later and she said she was speaking on her own personal point of view. it wasn't official cdc guidance, trying to split the baby there. clearly cdc officials, dr. anthony fauci has come out as well and said he believes kids should be in school. that is where the science is. we understand we want teachers and kids to be healthy. but what we found, despite our early suspicions a year ago and our concerns about school, is that schools -- and i'm speaking for new york city here, the biggest school system in the country. schools have been among the safest places in our city. and kids have not been giving it to each other. they have not been giving it to teachers, by and large. westchester to protect everybody, but we understand kids need to be in school. sit important to listen to scientists, including the people
who leave the cdc. >> and we could get all the teachers vaccines and then not have this debate. okay -- >> see, the thing is it's not a debate. scientifically, it's not a debate anymore. >> obviously that would solve the issue at hand. . >> the issue is solved. the thing is if you don't want top follow science now, then you can still say there is a debate. but there is not when it comes to scientists. that debate is over. i'm curious, do we listen to scientists now or not listen to scientists when it might upset our political allies. . >> ahead this hour, we will speak with white house senior adviser andy slavitt. we can address that with him, as well as the concept of getting vaccines to all teachers and everyone else as well. because that's another big issue that is stumbling around across america. let's bring in chief white house peter baker, msnbc analyst
michael steele, national affairs analyst and host of executive producer of show time's the circus and host of the hell and high water podcast, from the recount, john heilman. and "new york times" washington bureau chief elizabeth b. miller. >> not to beat a dead horse, which this horse, believe me, not dead yet. we should ask before we get into more mores that unfolded yesterday, peter baker, what can you tell us about schools and science? >> well, yesterday i was consumed by the impeachment trial. but i think all the points you make are relevant ones. the new president makes it a point saying let's defer to
health experts. as a father with a son in school i think everybody can empathize with this issue. obviously it's been almost a year at this point with many kids out of school and trying to learn in a very unsatisfying way online. so i think it's a big issue with real traction that the president is going to have to find a way to address. >> so, peter, talk about the extraordinary few days you have been writing about in "the times" and you laid out the evidence, how moving and emotional it was to senators in the starkest of terms. but then the next paragraph said acquittal is still likely. what should we be expecting to see today? >> well, look, i think we saw yesterday footage on the senate floor we have never seen before. we have never seen anything like that on the floor of the united states senate.
gut churning images that put the jurors right back in the events that they are judging. including republicans who probably still will not vote to convict donald trump. what you will hear from them is this is, it shows how terrible that a lot of people ought to go to jail. it doesn't show donald trump was responsible for it. even though the managers spent hours leading up to the showing of this video, trying to draw the connection, to show a methodical point-by-point way, how the president seeded this land scale by his false assertions about the election. and the weeks and months before january 6th. in other words, the incitement didn't begin with the rally on the ellipse that day. it began the summer before when he told everybody there was no such thing as an honest election
unless he won. you will see 34 republican senators vote against conviction, which will be enough to block it. we have never seen anything so gripping at the very moment of the crime being alleged. >> it really is. it is unlike anything that americans have seen. john heilman, you were on the floor talking to senators. you probably didn't see it. but the last hour we were talking about deeply offensive remarks by people like lindsey graham who claimed to be offended by the house impeachment manager's presentation.
josh hawley kicking his feet up like he was at a movie theater. actually, you're not even allowed to do that in a movie theater. while cops being killed, cops crying, begging for backup, being overrun by terrorists. last night when you were talking to senators, i know most senators most senators were deeply moved by this. what were they telling you last night? >> yeah, joe. everybody was emotionally wrung out yesterday. for a lot of people who sat in the chamber, many of them said
things like i did not know how close we came personally to potentially getting killed orchid demand. in realtime, we had no real awareness how close the rioters were to us. we learned the last month they were closer than we thought, or closer than we knew. when eric swalwell talked about the 58 steps and when they saw some of the video that made them realize that the insurrectionists were outside the door, if a door had given way, if a police officer hadn't been in a particular place, all of them, any of them could have been in deep, deep hurt. that was sinking in for a lot of senators last night. i would say this is true of republicans and democrats. we had stories last night of senator lankford shaking on the floor of the senate last night, quivering and having to be sort of comforted by his colleagues.
he was so physically overwhelmed by what you saw and overwrought. the thing that was interesting i heard a number of democratic senators who said i didn't doubt this was an insurrection. but if i had any remaining doubts in the back of my mind, watching the totality of the presentation yesterday confirmed to me this was not just a thing that happened january 6th but this was amos long plot. and the insurrection continues still. one still said that to me last night. we are still having an insurrection. donald trump is still refuse to goage joe biden as the rightful president of the united states. he is exerting his power and his influence and intimidation over these republican senators.
a number of democratic senators last night who are normally seen as democratic senators who forged bipartisan compromise in the senate who said -- when i said at the end of the day, how do you explain your republican colleagues' behavior, all of them came to the word that willie geist used last hour. they reluctantly think of is cowardly, cowardice. how can they not punish donald trump for throwing his own vice president to the lions. a number of them said they felt like they couldn't speak to their republican colleagues yesterday they were so upset with the vote the previous day. how can you speak to them going forward? the answer is, i don't know. i don't know. i've lost all respect for trage
the ones we saw, here's video of mitt romney making his way down the hallway. officer eugene goodman, turning and instructing him to run the other way so he wouldn't run into the teeth of the mob pursuing him. we can only know, the target of donald trump for many years now. house impeachment managers are looking to tie donald trump's actions and rhetoric at causing the attack on the capitol. that's the point of their exercise. stacey plaskett, a permit to march from the january 6th rally at the ellipse to the capitol was not authorized until the former president's team got involved. here's what she said. >> women for america first had initially planned for the rallygoers to remain at the ellipse until the counting of
the state electoral slates first was completed. just like they had remained at freedom plaza after the second million maga march. in fact, the permit stated in no uncertain term that the march from the ellipse was not permitted. it fpz not until after president trump and his team became involved in the planning that the march from the ellipse to the capitol came about. in direct contradiction of the original permit. >> elizabeth b. miller, it shocks the conscience. it reminds us how bad it was and shows us how much worse it could have been. but also yesterday the job of the house managers was to make this sort of methodical case tying president trump and his
rhetoric. >> it was a really good narrative, tiktok of how this all happened. and it was really striking to see. we all watched that. none of us knew exactly the timing. and it was interesting to see donald trump tweeted his criticism of mike pence for not doing what he shouldn't did done, not certify the election. he tweeted in two minutes -- it was just two minutes before mike pence was running down the stairs for his life. i was really struck watching this yesterday. in our business, you know, it was like a new story every six hours. but i was struck by how much we were numbed to it as it was
happening. when it was all laid out and to see extraordinary behavior. to hear the president over and over again saying he won the election. that alone would be an impeachable offense, leaving aside the riot. they wanted this in the congressional record, the history books. it's all there for people to see for generations. >> i wanted to follow up on what elizabeth said. as it was unfolding, i get an alert that a mob was going into the capitol. for those of you who don't know, mika watches news -- wants to watch news 24 hours a day. and i don't.
i stop reading after i get off the show here. i said, mika, you might want to turn the tv back on. it looks like there's a mob going to the capitol. and it took me, like, five minutes to get up from my desk because we have been so numbed. >> desensitized. >> by the tactics donald trump has used the past five years. that even what we saw yesterday shocked the conscience. >> here is joaquin castro, also tying former president trump's rhetoric directly to his supporters showing how, quote, his words became their actions. >> his votes were counted and his loss became more certain, he riled up his base further.
take a look at these tweets. on november 5th, he tweeted, in all capital letters as if shouting commands, stop the count! stop the fraud! senators, this is dangerous. this is not the president saying to his supporters that somebody stole your cup of coffee. this is the commander in chief telling supporters your election is being stolen and you must stop the counting of american votes. and it worked. his commands led to their actions. take a look at this. the same day as those tweets, the same day as those tweets, around 100 trump supporters
showed up in front of a maricopa county election center in phoenix, some of them carrying rifles, literally trying to intimidate officials to stop the count just as president trump had commanded. katie hobbs said they were causing delay and disruption and preventing the employees from doing their job. let's call this what it was. we're facing a global pandemic. workers were risking their health to ensure the integrity of our elections. and president trump's supporters were encircing them, trying to prevent them from doing their own jobs. it was dangerous. it was scary. and it was a blatant act of political intimidation. >> michael steele, your thoughts. we saw it in phoenix, in michigan, the buildup step by
step. and this fire hose of information that was coming at everybody across the country, not to mention coronavirus and the hundreds of thousands of deaths and the struggle this country was going through. i think it helped to see the impeachment managers lay out simple math. one plus one equals two. the president was at the core of what happened at the capitol. >> the -- i think the most powerful part of yesterday really was that. they laid out not just what happened on january 6th, but all the various events, tweets that led up to that day. we forget before then there were other incidences around the country where state capitols
were under assault. governors were threatened. magaheads whether donald trump lost or won the election. so these tweets, and the rhetoric of the president behind the presidential podium fed that fuel, fueled the fire that was sort of burning right beneath the surface. and i thought there was a very, very important moment, a couple of moments that were khraeufd in the words of the managers when madeline said the seats of the government were ransacked on our watch. and i thought, and let's be a little more specific to the republican senators that you have talked about in the last hour who clearly are unmoved by any of this.
in happened on your watch. and some of your colleagues in this chamber with you, they're kphreus it as well. it's not just the donald trump piece. and i thought it was how, and we saw at the end of the day how mike lee just kind of lost his mind because, guess what, they called you out. right? they put it you out in front of the country. yeah, you had a role in this too. josh hawley, you are up there painting the toenails, baby, in the gallery. that's why you're not watching. because you know where your fingerprints have been. and that's the part of yesterday that i thought was really stunning. and then there was that moment, joe and mika, where they showed the video of folks outside screaming, destroy the gop, destroy the gop. and i'm sitting there thinking, republican senators, the head of
the party has a job outside screaming for your head. what do you think about that? and then you have the comments last night, joe, people going, oh, well, this is just a complete waste of time. i don't know why we're here dealing with this. it's juning the level of stupidity involved here by some members of my party. >> so, michael, you and i, you know these people that we're talking about. and i will be the first to say i've had friendships with many of them just like you. i like them. i have liked them very much. >> yeah. >> mike lee, if anybody asked me about mike lee, i would say mike lee is a good guy. >> yeah. >> i like mike. and yet mike lee talked about how donald trump should be given
mulligan, using a term for a cop killer mob going to the hill because of donald trump. and, by the way, nobody has to prove it. we all know that's the case. yet mike lee is saying, oh, you know what, cops were killed. the center of america's government was ransacked. let's give him a mulligan. lindsey, hell, i got into congress with lindsey in '94. listen, i've always said he's not a guy that you would want guarding the pentagon. but lindsey was somebody you could work with, talk to. i mean, john mccain certainly thought so until the end when he was obviously bitterly disappointed in lindsey. but you look at lindsey, and this is a guy who, after seeing cops killed and after hearing
the screams, and lines had been breached, and women and men in blue getting brutalized by donald trump's mob, he acted like he was shocked by the impeachment manager's presentation. even knowing these people. i have known lindsey 25, 26, 27 years. there are no words. i can put them in the group as some of my friends and family members are also accepting this cop killer behavior and are totally fine with donald trump inspiring cop killers to go to the hill. but it is -- michael, it is so surreal and sure as hell explains to me a lot of things that i haven't understand when reading history in the past.
how it could happen here, and it did happen here. >> and, joe, the reason it did happen here, as we are beginning to understand more and more, there were so many people who were co-conspirators, collaborators along the way who gave license to it by their silence, who gave license to it by their turning a blind eye or saying, oh, there's nothing to see here. this is a complete waste of time. or doing the what about-i am ism. the president was not a by stander, nor were a number of other people in that chamber. as a country, when this final vote is cast, we will have to figure out how to reconcile that. essentially what will have been said otherwise, is everything
that led up to and happened on january 6th was okay. and i just don't believe the country is going to walk away saying, well, that was interesting. this has left an indelible mark on us. we will have to reconcile that up against those who are complicit in it. okay. you guys wanted to give donald trump his mulligan. i don't think you get one. because you're going to have to stand in front of us again. he doesn't. but you will. and i think we're going to have to come to reckon with that as well. >> you have to wonder what history will think about the vote that many republicans are preparing to take. what will their families think in 20, 30 years as they see how they voted. john heilman, the argument we heard last night effectively was anybody who participated in what we saw in the video and committed violence ought to go
to jail. but we're not going to connect it to donald trump. we'll vote to acquit. you did an interview with adam kinzinger, he said the republican from illinois, i told my staff to stay home january 6th and i brought my firearm to work. he served in iraq and afghanistan. and you said, why? and he said, well, i watched and listened to what donald trump had said and done in the days and weeks lieding up to that day. and i knew there would be violence. i took him seriously, and i wish my colleagues in the senate would do the same. . >> yeah. i mean, it was actually one of the most stunning parts of that interview, willie. because we were talking about the impeachment and stuff. i found myself as i off do asking members of congress who were there to reflect on it. he pointed out he is licensed to carry that firearm. he normally does not bring his firearm to the capitol because it is so well protected. but he had been looking at social media, he had been
reading the news reports, watching the president for six months. he had absorbed what we were presented with yesterday by the house managers. the totality of that picture. many of us -- a lot of us thought there was maybe trouble brewing, there would be some political theater. but adam kinzinger reached what now is the obviously conclusion, that there was threatening trouble brewing. so i told staff to come to work today and showed up to work with a sidearm, thinking i might have to protect myself against these violent donald trump supporters. when it unfolded he was horrified but not surprised. and he is one of those people. he said to me that day, he is urging all of his republican colleagues in the senate to convict donald trump. he thinks it is a clear-cut
case. like many of the democratic senators i talked to yesterday, finds it in explicable that republican senators don't reach the same conclusion he has having seen all of this evidence and lived through all of this, which of course donald trump was in the center of this. you made the point in the first hour, take donald trump out of this. joe said this in the 6:00 hour. take donald trump out and does this happen? the obvious answer is no. that gives you the answer of did he incite this violence? of course he did. >> but for one, would there have been a five-five pileup in the intersection. you remove that car, if that's not the case, the negligence sits primarily with the first car. obviously remove donald trump from the same, this doesn't happen. even that rudy giuliani was a co-conspirator and talked about
combat justice this wouldn't have happened. little junior talked about going up on the hill. still, they wouldn't have followed. they follow donald trump. the liability is there. i wanted to ask -- elizabeth, i want to ask you and then peter baker about the future of the republican party. as a former republican, it galled me if four republicans went out golfing and won of them had a fight, there would be a story that the republican party was breaking up and there would be a civil war. i think we have gone there. my question is this, elizabeth, whether you have seen the republican party or any party in washington this divided. i wrote some names down here. so how does mitch mcconnell, john thune, lisa murkowski, jim lankford, mitt romney, susan collins, how do they continue to operate in the same party with josh hawley, ted cruz, lindsey
graham when the last four i mentioned are obviously operating off a different set of facts and are willing to forgive a terrorist attack against the united states capitol. >> this is probably a bigger tent than anybody could live with right now. we had an interesting story in "the times" how people are leaving the republican party. it was not a huge number but in the 140,000 leaving after january 6th. voter data from 26 states. it's not a huge number but more than usual to leave. i think that is going to be a continuing trend. there is -- there's lots of talk about this -- a third party, you know, a breakaway republican party with people from previous
administrations who are not part of the josh hawley wing. there's a lot more talk. it haeblt really started yet. i don't know what the republican party does. and i want to say one other thing we have all been talking about the riot. i was so struck by the savagery of it. it is something you don't see in this country. we saw the body cam footage from one of the police officers, it looked like something out of a medieval times and it was going on for hours and hours. we had reporters on the hill that day. sabrina, who has covered -- a reporter from war zones all over the world. and she just said she had never seen a crowd in that kind of a frenzy, a crazed frenziy and for so long. i just wanted to add that to all the commentary about what donald trump did to that crowd.
again, peter can talk about the republican party. i don't see a strong future for it right now. >> does ben sasse want to be in josh hawley's party? john thune, lankford, mitt romney, susan collins. and i'll add mitch mcconnell to that list. because think about it. i was talking about, you know, the but for test as far as donald trump goes. let's back it up just a little bit. mitch mcconnell specifically warned josh hawley in blunt, frank terms, don't do this. do not challenge the votes. bad things will happen. you will turn people against the
republican party. he had another call hawley wasn't even on that call. so, i mean, it's hard to say donald trump is primarily responsible for this. but just -- if you look at mitch mcconnell, josh hawley and all the warnings that the then majority leader was given to josh hawley, it's hard not to come to the that this would not have happened but for josh hawley's actions as well. how do the two things of the republican party continue to coexist? >> there is a bitter taste right now towards josh hawley. you can hear it in their comments mostly in private. but even sometimes in public.
. ted cruz wasn't liked among his colleagues. and i think there is a larger caucus of trump, you know, stalwarts if you want to call them that. the number you could identify was the other day on the vote to have -- to approve the rules for the trial, right. that passed 89-11. agreement by both parties. mitch miracle connell and chuck schumer agreed. everybody said these are fine rules, fair rules, bipartisan rules. and 11 republican senators still voted against it. why? they wanted to say anything to do with this trial is wrong and in effect stand with trump on every single point. even against their own party leadership. you have to identify this republican conference in a way. ben sasse, i thought his exchange with his own state party was fascinating as they tried to censure him from
balking from former president trump. sasse said you can censure me all you like, he said, but this is crazy. you saw it with bill cassidy, his vote on the constitution ality. it is a war, unfortunately. it's a very bitter one right now. >> you know, mika, those words were so stark. ben sasse telling his own steering committee in nebraska, there's nothing conservative about personality consults. there's nothing conservative about conspiracy theories. there is nothing conservative about lying. and nothing conservative putting power politics above your own religious faith. he said, yes, something changed the last four years, but it
hasn't been me. >> thank you all for being on this morning. still ahead on "morning joe", one of the managers from donald trump's first impeachment, congresswoman val demings of florida. val demings of florida >> use them to call justice to roll down like waters and righteousness like a mighty stream. >> i think most republicans found it offensive and absurd. >> give our lawmakers the guest of internment so that they will know truth from falsehood. . >> so the whole story line that donald trump caused this by his speech has fallen apart. >> use them to cause justice to
roll down like waters and righteousness like a mighty stream. >> this is pretty obvious this is a political exercise. >> give our lawmakers the gift of discernment so that they will know truth from false hood. >> what's going through republicans's minds, what about hillary clinton telling joe biden, never concede. >> we pray in your mighty name. amen. ighty name amen when you drive this smooth, you save with allstate the future of auto insurance is here you've never been in better hands
that you were extremely proud and yet we know some republicans were unmoved and even josh hawley sat in the gallery with his feet up. >> mika, let me say good morning to you and everyone. it is great to be back with you. i have to tell you, watching the videos and the presentation on yesterday, the performance of the impeachment managers, they have done a masterful job in presenting this case on behalf of the american people. what we now know is but for the police officers who were there that day, mike pence probably would have suffered death or great bodilily harm. the speaker of the house would have suffered death or great bodily harm. members of congress would have suffered death and tkpwrarpl
tkpwarpl. they were beaten with hockey sticks, pipes, bats, poles, crushed between a doorway. we know that one lost his life, two others because of the emotional stress and trauma took their lives. and for anyone, certainly anyone in that chamber to say this is a waste of time, to decide to not even pay attention, to give the law enforcement officers who protect them every day that much decency and respect, is just absolutely disgraceful. but history, mika, will judge them. they have an opportunity to do the right thing. this presentation is not over. this impeachment trial, they still have time. >> congresswoman, it's willie geist. great to see you this morning. you were an orlando police officer for almost 30 years and chief of police there for a long
time too. >> and a mother of four. >> we understand that you come at this watching those images, terrifying, horrifying, disgusting savage images from that point of view as well. what we have heard from the senators coming out of the room, the perpetrators we saw in body cam, the terrorists rampaging through the halls, the terrorists who killed officer sicknick, the capitol police officer, they ought to be prosecuted to the full extent of the law. it was disgusting. but, they say, we don't believe donald trump sent them there. we don't believe he is responsible for their actions and therefore we are not going to vote to convict. what would you say to that? >> what i hear is hold everybody else accountable but not our guy. don't believe your lying eyes and lying ears about our guy who
basically hit the match, started the fire that grew that day. everybody counts, but everybody is accountable. if the impeachment managers did a skillful job in showing that the president's violent rhetoric did not just start that day on january 6th. that there was a deliberate buildup. the president was desperate. he knew he was losing. he lost. violence was his last resort. and even some of the mobsters, the violent rioters said we are following the president's orders. he invited us here today. he told them to stop the steal, to fight like hell, and they did just that. >> i want to come back to what he emphasized at the top. as a former police chief, forget being a congresswoman just for a
second, what it was it like viscerally to watch officers outnumbered, doing their best, standing in the breach saving lives, officer eugene goodman grabbing mitt romney and telling him to run the other way. perhaps saving his life. what did you feel watching those images? . >> willie, we interrupt with the capitol police officers every day. they are there to protect us, to protect visitors to the capitol, to protect our staff. i remember going through training. we were taught if you're in an all-out fight, you're only good for about 30 seconds because it's emotionally and physically draining. yet we know these officers were fighting for their very lives, fighting to protect us for hours. it was extremely painful. it was extremely personal for
me. they took an oath to protect and defend the constitution of the united states. officer brian sicknick gave his life doing just that. it was extremely painful. i could only imagine what they were going through in 27 years, yeah i have had my fights, batten counters worked demonstrations from white supremacists and others. but i have never in 27 years seen anything like that. and the law enforcement officers, they deserve more from what we heard from some of the senators on yesterday. >> congresswoman, i would like to turn before you go to the covid crisis in the state of florida. we're sort of witnessing it on our own anecdotal level here and seeing a struggle to get the vaccine to everybody.
what are you hearing? how is it going in your district in terms of not just covid numbers but trying to get the vaccine to the people who need it? >> well, mika, if those in leadership would just remember that they don't just represent some, that they represent everybody. look, we know we're in a challenging time. but you look at the most vulnerable communities, and you make sure that the vaccine is in those communities first. apparently, in florida, we have had some problems trying to figure out who those vulnerable communities are. there have even been some stories perhaps it was divided or decisions were being made along political lines. i would certainly hope that's not the case. but what we heard a week or so ago about the vaccine only being available in certain areas has gone better. they have expanded that now. i'm pleased to hear that.
as you well know, i know you're familiar with florida, and i know joe is as well, we have a long way to go in this state. >> for sure. congresswoman val demings, thank you very much for being on the show. this morning. and on that note, joining us now, white house senior adviser for covid response, andy slavitt. thank you very much for being on the show this morning. i see it snowing. we appreciate your coming out. i think there's a lot of questions about how this vaccine can get to the american people at a faster pace. can you update us on where we are exactly? . >> yeah. thank you. thanks for having me on this morning. we are in a shortage. it's important that we not lose side of the fact that we level with the public for a short period we will be in a shortage. we focused on how to increase the number of vaccines. we have increased our three
weeks here the number of vaccines going to states by 28%. we have also just this week shipped a million more vaccines starting retail pharmacy program. we have opened up community health centers, a centers program that congresswoman demings has been talking about. and we're opening 100 federally sponsored sites in communities across the country and getting more vaccinators out there. so the good news is we're getting on it. the bad news is we're getting on it a few yards at a time and the public wants this vaccine as soon as possible as do we. so we're pushing and seeing it grow every week and in every state and we're pleased to see some of the progress we're seeing but we need to do more. >> so, mr. slavitt, talking to people connected with the biden campaign in early december, talking to people on the transition team, and they were deeply concerned in late
november and early december that the previous administration had botched the vaccine rollout and were deeply concerned. what are -- just so we understand and we have proper context where we are in february, what were some of the challenges that the biden team, that you faced, regarding the vaccine rollout plan when you finally got into office on january 20th? >> yeah. so i think we've been led to believe as a country that we would have 40 million vaccines done by the end of december, 100 million by the end of january. we came in, there wasn't a stockpile of vaccines. there wasn't as much manufacturing as we thought and no plan given to the number of vaccinators, the number of sites, and monitoring of how these things were moving out. when we got here, about 46% of the vaccines produced had been
administered. today that number is 67%. so, you know, look, you deal -- you play the cards you're dealt, not the cards you wish you had when dealing with a crisis. we won't spend a lot of time focused on what did or didn't happen. we have to focus for the public on today and tomorrow and the next day. and there's opportunities every day including the things that we talked about. how we have to increase vaccinators, get more supply. you know, we now have visibility to getting all the vaccine we need to the adult population and hopefully some good news around the corner, but we'll also have challenges. we know that. >> so we had dr. fauci on our show last week, i think, about seven to ten days ago. his exact quote was we need to get children back in school. there has been some back and forth in the administration over the past week, some confusion on
what the goals were. candidate biden said he wanted schools opened up. the majority of schools opened up within 100 days of january 20th. where do we stand now the? >> i watched your segment earlier on this topic. i can assure you of one thing, there's no debate over whether to open schools here, there's a debate on how. if it was just open all the schools, they would be open now. what the cdc is studying are there are schools that have done it safely and there are schools that have done it not as safely. we know, for example, dr. wollensky says if kids are in masks, we should be opened. tomorrow, i don't know if i'm breaking news here, tomorrow the cdc will roll out their operating plan to give school districts, local communities the guidance they need to begin to
do that and do that aggressively. i know people are inpatient. i understand why. a lot of parents in this building, they, too, are inpatient. the cdc is thorough and they're going to hopefully provide some good guidance so that schools can start to open. >> andy, that will be news tomorrow. new cdc guidelines on schools, we look forward to that. in the meantime the cdc director said teachers do not need to be vaccinated in order for schools to open. do you all -- does the president agree with that? >> what the cdc director believes is every additional protective measure you take helps. vaccinations help, masks help. good ventilation helps. if we had an abundance of those tools we would say everybody should do everything right now and everybody would be as safe as possible. what she's saying is while we have a shortage, there are other ways to get there and to do it
safely. that's the kind of details she's going through painstakingly in this plan to say what do you do if you have enough vaccines? what do you do if you don't? how do you open? i think she's trying to figure out how to get schools to yes under limited resources. >> her quote last week is safe reopening does not mean teach teachers need to be vaccinated. so do they need to be vaccinated or not before schools reopen? >> i wish there was a one-word answer, but there's complexity in the detail. the white house doesn't want to get in the science business. we'll let them do that and help the states implement it as quickly as they can. >> all right. white house adviser for covid response, andy slavitt, thank you very much for coming on the show. >> greatly appreciate it. willie, it does sound like he
did break some news there regarding the cdc guidelines tomorrow. it is interesting that randy weingarten said in an interview this week that she wants teachers to go back to school before they're all vaccinated. so it will be interesting to see how aggressive these cdc guidelines have to be. yes, it does have to be on a case by case basis, but what a lot of parents heard from jen psaki a couple days ago certainly fell far short of what they were expecting from candidate biden when he became president. it will be interesting to see the evolution of this >> you laid it out. the promise of the campaign is in my first 100 days the majority of schools will be
reopened. that got watered down yesterday to in my first 100 days, the majority of schools will be open at least one day a week. which is not terribly helpful. >> that's not helpful at all. >> still ahead, two of the jurors in the trump impeachment trial will be our guests. "morning joe" is back in two minutes. wo minutes. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ (quiet piano music) ♪ ♪ comfort in the extreme. the lincoln family of luxury suvs. this is how you become the best!
dso, get up here. >> we're going to give riot warnings. we're going to try to get compliance. but this is effectively a riot. >> we need units! >> they breached the scaffold they're behind! >> cruiser 50, the crowd is using munitions against us. they have bear spray in the crowd. bear spray in the crowd. >> 10-33, i repeat, 10-33 west front of the capitol. we're flanked we have lost the line. >> we have been flanked and we have lost the line. the moment it became an uncontrollable riot that would
eventually breach the building. the call was part of new evidence released yesterday in the impeachment trial of former president donald trump. it is part of the remarkable, riveting, horrifying evidence, joe and willie, that we saw laid out yesterday in incredible detail as moment by moment went by and the capitol was breached and then entered and rioted by these hordes of people. here now is house manager eric swalwell showing body cam footage of the crowd attacking an officer as he protected the west entrance to the capitol. and a warning very early this morning this video is disturbing.
>> this body camera footage is from 4:27 p.m. over two hours from when the capitol was first breached. the attack on police that afternoon was constant. >> joe, i just want to know, as this played out for hours and hours and senators were listening to this and watching it, some of it for the first time, can you imagine -- can you imagine one of them sitting in the gallery with his feet up reading magazines or unrelated material during this unbelievable presentation of what happened to our u.s. capitol that day? >> well, you have people that are clearly unfit.
>> that was josh hawley. >> unfit to serve in the united states capitol. in the united states senate. of course, if you're josh hawley, you actually are the person who led the insurrection. you're the person most responsible, other than donald trump, for that insurrection. you're the person most responsible for a police officer being beaten to death. you're the person most responsible for the cop killing, for the cop beating, for the abusing. it is josh hawley who mitch mcconnell begged, begged to not do what he did. and it is josh hawley yesterday, as they are showing images of the vice president of the united states and his wife and his children in danger. capitol hill police officers
being killed, being beaten, being abused. the capitol of the united states being overrun by savages, by animals. you look at the people in that body cam footage, those were trump terrorists. two hours after the riots began. two hours after, people started calling the president. an hour after people were begging the president from inside the capitol to call off the terrorists, to call off the attack. the president of the united states watching all of this gleefully, it was donald trump, thrilled by what he was seeing. the cop killers that he unleashed on the capitol. the seditionists that he unleashed on the united states
senate. it was all part of a bigger plan. and if you look at that body cam footage, we have never seen anything like that before in american history. but let me tell you what you are looking at there. you're looking at what happens when a sitting president, who is stripped of almost all of his powers and is desperate to cling on to power, unleashes a terrorist mob against the united states capitol, against another separate branch of government. willie, every day gets more damning. not just for the president of the united states, he is already damned by history. he's already damned by the voters. he is already damned by everything that he has done. it is republicans now who are sitting back, like rick scott who is saying that is just a
waste of time. after watching these cop killers go in and savage police officers. after watching this terrorist mob going in and brutalizing, brutalizing cops and threatening the lives of the republican vice president and his family, calling for his hanging, calling for his lynching, willie. and rick scott says this is all just vindictive of donald trump. marco rubio talking about, this is just a waste of time. the same marco rubio, by the way, was applauding the terrorists out in texas that were running people off the road. the savages. maybe not terrorists, but the savages, the thugs who were running campaign workers off the road. like this is some third world country.
and josh hawley kicking back, doing correspondence in the gallery? while we see an american tragedy unfolding piece by piece, bit by bit in front of our very eyes. there are no words for people like hawley and cruz and rubio and rick scott. who claim this is a waste of our time. claimed that the senate is being "vindictive" against president trump. there are no words, but there will be a political judgment at the polls for them. this ends really badly for the party that has already lost the white house, the senate and the house of representatives. it's just -- it really is, as shocking as these images are,
those soulless political creatures reaction to it may be just as shocking. >> i had the same thought, joe, when i heard some of those reactions. they sat through the same presentation that we all sat through and watched on television, except they lived through it. this called up memories for many of them. it showed them new video, perhaps they didn't realize how close they were to being in the line of these terrorists who stormed the building. yet, as you said, many of them came out and effectively shrugged their shoulders at what they saw. if you actually watched this video, if you listened to the testimony, to the argument from the house managers and were not moved in some way, then something is so dead inside you that you are beyond repair. if you're josh hawley making obviously an exhibition of himself by sitting up in the gallery, look at me, i've got my feet up. he could be at his desk like everyone else, or if after watching you're rick scott and you come out and call the proceedings a complete waste of time, saying it's vindictive and
using this talking point of a false choice that we've heard, that we ought to be focused on the economy and getting the vaccine out to people and not confronting what happened on january 6th. if you are lindsey graham who said the presentation by house managers was, quote, offensive and absurd. he wasn't offended by what he saw -- >> what the hell? >> -- on the video. he was offended by the presentation of the video from house managers. that's a tweet and a quote from lindsey graham. offensive and absurd. you can't watch that presentation yesterday and realize how close we were to something absolutely catastrophic for this country. you can't. it's in the video. it's in the new video we saw. you can't watch the video and not understand that mitt romney, former nominee for president for the republican party if not for officer eugene goodman getting him to turn around, may not be here today. here's that video. they killed a cop.
they killed someone they profess to support, blue lives matter. what would they have done to the people they hate? people like mitt romney who they were told was standing in the way of donald trump remaining in the white house? what would they have done if they found all those people? >> let's bring in andrew weissmann, he was general counsel for the fbi under director mueller. he's now an msnbc legal analyst. give us your thoughts on how the house managers are doing so far. >> i think they're doing a great job. i think it is necessary to show what actually happened. in other words, what the former president unleashed. but, as you said, in terms of the charge of incitement, it is necessary to show how this is connected to what donald trump either intended or was
recklessly fomenting. and i think that some of the key evidence there is not just what happened, the buildup, which they have done a wonderful job showing you can't really start the timeline on january 6th. but if you look at this in the way of what would an innocent president have done? in other words, if this was not donald trump's intent. if he didn't think that this was what was going to happen and he didn't want it to happen, what would he have done? well, he would have said it's fine to protest on january 6th, but he would have made it clear and he wouldn't say once to be peaceful. he would have really stressed given that he knew so much about the propensity for violence of this group. and then on january 6th, it wouldn't have taken very long for him to be outspoken about quelling the violence, about sending in the national guard. and i think if you compare his actions to what an innocent
person would have done, it makes it very clear that he is guilty of the charge that was lodged against him. >> you know, andrew, i was just going to ask you how we separate political speech. what have the impeachment managers done to make that separation between political speech and incitement. before i could ask you the question, i think back to the debate where he's asked to condemn the proud boys. and instead he tells them to stand by. just stand by. there are so many examples of him celebrating violence. you can go back even back to the 2016 campaign, time and time again talking about carrying people out on stretchers. 2017, him celebrating a republican member of congress beating up a reporter for asking a question about health care reform.
you could continue throughout his entire presidency the glorification of violence. you can talk about what he said about hillary clinton, stop her from appointing judges with a second amendment solution. this is a president that has used violent rhetoric time and time again. it's hard to say this is just political speech. so have the house impeachment managers crossed that threshold effectively or do they need to present more evidence? >> well, i think it would be useful for them to stress what happened auto january 6th. in other words, if the president was not only it shows his intent in terms of being reckless about what was going to happen, but it shows a dereliction of his oath of office. because he didn't take any of the steps for somebody who was sworn to fully and faithfully execute the laws seeing what's happened. you should not be rejoicing. nobody with an ounce of
patriotism who could look at the tapes we saw the last couple days and not be horrified. and i think that it's going to be -- you know, in any normal trial, you need to separate the defendant, the former president from what happened in the capitol because you need to basically say what happened there is horrific, we don't condone that, and you need to say that is not what was anticipated. but to argue that the president didn't anticipate this was going to happen, is really, you know, that is fake news. i don't mean to make light of it, but it reminds me of the scene from "casablanca" where claude shuts down the cafe to say i was shocked to say there was gambling going on and then a moment later counting his gambling winnings. for the president to say he didn't anticipate that this was
what was going to happen after all of the evidence that we've seen, and the fact that he didn't take any immediate steps to quell the violence i think is really far-fetched. in any normal trial, in a court of law, i think that would carry the day. we have a big hour ahead. two of the jurors in the trump impeachment trial, senators cory booker and mark warner will be our guests. and the ex-director of the homeland security cybersecurity department chris krebs will join us. "morning joe" will be right back. "morning joe" will be right back ♪ [triumphantly yells] [ding] don't get mad. get e*trade.
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shortly thereafter there was a terrifying banging on the chamber doors. i will never forget that noise. shouts, panic calls to my husband and my sons. instructions to flee and then the constant worrying of the gas masks filtering the air. the chamber of the united states house of representatives turned to chaos. >> this attack never would have happened but for donald trump. and so they came, draped in trump's flag. and used our flag, the american flag to batter and to bludgeon. and at 2:30 i heard that terrifying banging on house chamber doors. for the first time in more than 200 years the seat of our government was ransacked on our
watch. >> joining us now, democratic senator cory booker of new jersey. cory, after such a powerful day yesterday, where the impeachment managers laid out moment by moment what happened, i want to ask you, what was january 6th like for you? what was your experience of the events? >> well, it was difficult to relive it in a way. it was a very emotional moment. you looked around the chamber as i did often, and you just see on both sides of the aisle members deeply affected by what we were seeing. then, of course, we were on that floor, so we do not know all the dots that they connected about what was going on outside. what was going on in the white house. and that is what was so damning to me to realize, in the midst
of insurrection, in the midst of murderous, violent people who came to kill, dressed in army fatigues and dressed -- armed with, you know, tasers and bear spray, donald trump did not call on them to stop. he actually further fueled that murderous rage by tweeting in real time things like his vice president had in a sense betrayed them. those tweets were read out loud while vice president pence was hiding with his family. so when you start to see these actions that donald trump took during the siege, you not only see a person that was inciting the riot, but in that sense even directing it towards individuals. that, to me, is such a profound betrayal of his oath, of his obligations and of this nation. >> you have republican
counterparts still unmoved even after all of that laid out in plain sight. what do you say to your republican counterparts who will not vote to impeach despite everything that we saw and that you all experienced? >> there are moments in american history that are not partisan ones that are moral ones. this is a moral moment. what happened in our country will be talked about for generations to come. and if we ignore this, if we excuse it, it we do nothing we invite this horror back on our country again. this is a moment where we need profiles in courage. we know if this was a president obama who fueled lies in the face of dozens of judges of his own appointments who said it was a lie, if it was president obama who fueled lies and people in
his own party, governors and secretary of states, if we had a president obama who incited people to come to the capitol because he said it would be wild and told them to fight like hell, and if those people who stormed the capitol were majority black, we know that some of those folks who want to ignore, excuse, and turn a page we know what their posture would be in this moment. i know ringing in my ears is that quote that we all know. the only thing necessary for evil to be triumphant is for good people to do nothing. the murder of brian sicknick was evil. the deaths that happened at our capitol was evil. the assault on this sacred citadel that i'm standing in right now was an assault on what was good and decent in our country. so this is a moral moment.
history will judge whether we show courage to simply tell the truth and hold accountable the person who is responsible, because we all know but for donald trump, but for his actions over the weeks and days leading into that, and then in the hours of the actual assault, but for him this would not have happened. >> senator, it's willie. it's good to see you this morning. we heard and you mentioned reports of some republican senators who were moved to tears in some cases by what they saw in that room yesterday. i'm sure you talked to a few of them. there is a group, we heard from them loudly last night, who will be moved by nothing they see. lindsey graham, marco rubio, ron johnson, you know the list of characters. is it your sense that there are persuadable republicans still? there are people who watched the evidence yesterday, who watched the video yesterday, who will see the presentation from house managers today and could be moved to convict donald trump?
>> so i'm not going to fix myself in any certitude in this moment. i definitely think that there are higher forces calling to the conscious of my colleagues. i have been surprised on the senate floor before. i saw an aging and ailing john mccain turn against the tides of his party and choose patriotism when it came to the health care of millions of americans. i was very surprised -- i'll be frank with you, by the words of mitch mcconnell on the night, the firm rebuke of president trump that he issued. so i -- i don't know. at the end of the day, i love my country and i love the senate, as much as people want to criticize it and bash it. i wouldn't be serving my life, years in this institution if i didn't believe in the possibility to do great things and to make our nation a more beloved community. i just want to say let's wait
and see, be hopeful but also realistic in terms of the outcome. >> what is your explanation, senator, for people who did come out of that presentation yesterday and say it was "offensive and absurd" as lindsey graham said or as rick scott said "a complete waste of time." is it a plain as it seems that they remain fearful of donald trump and his voters? >> i -- i don't even want to go on that odyssey of trying to explain comments like that. it's not for me to sit in judgment of any of my colleagues. they'll judgment will have to be their own maker and history. i dare say that history will be harsh on what we say here should we not stand up and speak unequivocal truth that what happened here was wrong. and that responsibility lies at the feet of a president who
swore an oath not just to defend the constitution but he swore an oath to perform the most powerful role to protect our country and protect our citizens. and during a murderous, violent riot, sieging the capitol, when people around him were begging him to intervene, a man who so gratuitously tweeted things like stop the steal, stop the fraud, he did nothing. and worse than that, he targeted the murderous rebellion at his own vice president who lay in hiding in this capitol with his family while people sought him out chanting hang mike pence. i do not understand how anybody in this sacred body could say that that was right.
can stay silent and not condemn that with all the force of their being. >> with that in mind, senator booker, we're asking all of our guests to choose somebody they want to highlight for black history month. who do you choose this morning? >> robert smalls. he should be lionized in our country but few people know who he is. he served as a slave on a ship called "the plantard" during the civil war. he mutinied on that ship. stole it from his slaveholders and tried to get by fort sumptner, he served as a member of that ship and eventually in battle when his captain wanted to surrender, he mutinied again and got that boat out of harm's way saying if they capture you, you will be treated as an
officer, i will be killed. he went on to integrate trolley cars in philadelphia. he went on to introduce the first bills for public schools in south carolina and eventually served here in the congress. he is a great hero of america. a tremendous person before his time. and unfortunately like so many african-american heroes, very few americans know him. and i hope more will learn about him and others that are not taught in our schools. >> thank you. senator cory booker, thank you very much. up next, another one of the senate jurors. mark warner of virginia joins us next on "morning joe."
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i thank them every day for saving my life and the life of so many others. those americans sacrificed their lives for love of country, honor, duty, all the things that america means. the capitol stands because of people like that. this capitol conceived by our founding fathers, that was built by slaves, that remains through the sacrifice of service, men and women around the world. when i think of that and i think of these insurgents, these images incited by our own president of the united states, attacking this capitol to stop the certification of a
presidential election, our democracy, our republic. >> let's bring in the chairman of the senate intelligence committee, democratic senator mark warner of virginia. senator, we've been talking about how a few republicans said some deeply offensive things about what happened yesterday. lindsey graham said he was deeply offended by the presentation yesterday. rick scott called it a waste of time. others were derogatory. ron johnson was bringing up hillary clinton. as you sit there and you watch the evidence pile up against donald trump and you hear chants "hang mike pence" you watch the cop killers get into the capitol building, what's your thought about some of your own colleagues being so dismissive
and disrespectful of the process and especially of the police officers who died or were seriously wounded that day? >> joe, i don't know how anyone who was on the floor of the senate january 6th, which i was and i think most of those colleagues you mentioned were, could not have been moved by yesterday, by the congresswoman's comments. the analogy to what happened on 9/11. i don't know how anyone in their heart of hearts could say these images you're showing right now, but for donald trump, but for his unwillingness to accept the will of the american people vote, that somehow this would have happened if donald trump did not incite them or promoted the notion, the lie that somehow he had won the election in a big landslide. i don't know how anyone can call themselves a defender of law and order when you say this mob,
it's okay for this mob to rampage and pillage. i think as the congressman said, the capitol is more than those of us who work there it's truly a representation of our democracy. people have given their lives to defend that democracy so many times, obviously the men and women on flight 93, a classic example. for people to be dismissive or -- it's an insult to who and what we represent as america and i don't know, somebody made the comment yesterday it may be good short-term politics for the next few weeks or two years for some of these folks to avoid the truth or avoid the responsibility, but i don't know how people will live with themselves five years, ten years. what will they tell their kids or grandkids where they stood when the question of accountability of january 6th took place.
the comparison was made as well yesterday to joe mccarthy, who frankly lives in infamy now because of his red baiting tactics in the early '50s. the fact it took a while for the senate to get its -- to grow any courage to take him down. but what joe mccarthy did pales in comparison to the big lie and incenting folks towards violence. as you said, joe, the idea that donald trump had so little disdain for any of us that he was willing so have these folks go after and threaten the life of his vice president, mike pence, that in and of itself is such a damning comment. and people -- those who are defending that, those who are defending, how will they ever look at mike pence in the face again? >> mark, adding on to the but for argument which is so strong
here, the democrats and the republicans yesterday in the chamber hearing this, listening to this, they're not hearing and listening to a story that happened in the oval office or somewhere else, this is a story out what happened to right where they were sitting, to who they are. you all, democrats and republicans, were the victims to what happened on january 6th. you were the witnesses to a riot that led to death and maiming of many people. so i guess with that in mind what do you say to your republican counterparts who still aren't moved? >> i think there may be some revisionist history, i won't speak to any individual member, but if you were on the floor of the senate yesterday, everybody was riveted. you know, you could feel the
tension. you could feel kind of when the managers finished their presentation, there was almost like a great exhale. i personally left fairly quickly. i didn't know how i would deal with some of my republican friends -- and i got a lot of friends. i pride myself on being bipartisan. i'm part of every bipartisan group. biden's package, i'm working to make it bipartisan. i talked afterwards with some republicans who were willing to step up and do their constitutional duty. in many ways they are more blown away by the fact that -- that some members are still refusing to acknowledge the truth, to acknowledge what they felt, to acknowledge the images we all saw, to acknowledge that but for brave capitol police, there
would have been dead senators, dead congressmen. because there's one thing we know, that mob didn't give a damn whether you were democrat or republican. that mob was out for blood. they vocalized it in terms of mike pence and nancy pelosi, but i believe any member of congress that would have fell into that hands would have been bodily harmed. and the notion that any of this would have happened but for the continuation of donald trump lying about the fact that he's a loser, lying about the fact that he did not win, as a matter of fact he lost by 7 million plus votes, and then to send that crowd to do his bidding and his bidding as was demonstrated repeatedly was not to care about the law enforcement officers or others on the hill, but was
simply concerned about stopping the peaceful transfer of power, i don't know how anyone in their conscience can defend that now. hiding behind some constitutional office, somehow he's a private citizen is a complete cop out. >> senator, you are the new chair of the intel committee in the senate. you made it one of your priorities to look into extremist groups, domestic terrorist groups, white supremacist groups in this country, the kind that have organized over the last couple of years, many of whom participated in the attack on the capitol. what are first steps you're looking at to infiltrate these groups, stop she's groups and prevent something like what happened on the capitol on january 6th from happening again. >> first of all it's giving law enforcement and the intelligence community the support they need to raise this alarm.
the fbi director indicated not only the last few months but the last couple of years what a threat this is. the ability to make that publicly known as it should have been was suppressed by the former white house. let me be clear, i'm willing to look at extremism on the left or the right. the vast majority have proven to be on the right, the antifa groups and others need to be looked at. canada already declared the proud boys a terrorist group. we need to look at the connections between many of these groups and right-wing neo-nazi groups in europe were the same phenomenon that were taking place literally like you see in poland, hungary, or the manifestation of this kind of hate literally moving in to the leadership of those countries. we need to look at the fact that
the -- russia, which constantly through its sputnik and trolling and cyberactivities promotes these groups because that's beneficial to their national interest. if anyone who follows russia's objectives in terms of undermining western democracy does not believe that the greatest gift that donald trump gave vladimir putin were the images of those thugs marauding through our capitol, those images will be played and replayed hundreds, thousands, potentially millions of times trying to say, hey, there's nothing special about america. and we have to be willing and able to counter that. >> all right. senator mark warner, thank you very much for being with us as always we greatly appreciate it. mika, huffington post just
posted this. donald trump posted a tweet attacking his own vice president for lacking the courage to overturn the election to him just minutes after learning that pence had been removed from the senate chamber for his own safety. tommy tubberville told reporters on wednesday night that he talked to the president that day, he didn't get a chance to say a whole lot because i said, mr. president, they just took the vice president out. i've got to go. and trump was calling to tell tuberville to delay certification. so he tells the president right after 2:14 when he's removed, mr. president, i've got to go, they just took the vice president out. he was removed at 2:14. ten minutes later when the president knew that mike pence's life was in danger, that they had to take him out, donald trump tweeted ten minutes later,
mike pence didn't have the courage to do what should have een done to protect our country and our future. tuberville says they just took mike pence out and the president tweets that mike pence didn't have the courage to stand up to the constitution. up next, exposing the big lie. the nation's former top security official who led the effort to make sure the election was secure will be our guest. keep it here on "morning joe."
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after that. he lost. he lost the election. but remember he had that no-lose scenario that i referenced earlier. he told his base that the electionstolen, as he had forecasted. and then he told them, your election has been stolen but you cannot concede. you must stop the steal. >> our next guest can attest the election was free and fair. he would know because he was responsible for making sure it was. chris krebs joins us now, he's the government's former director of the cybersecurity and infrastructure security agency. he is now a partner at the krebs stamos group. you know, willie, just watching, as we're getting his audio fixed, just watching the case that was laid out yesterday, this timeline that went back
months. and covered different parts of the country. as the president really directed his followers to get ready for the events that happened on january 6th. it almost feels like, you know, we saw it coming. we saw everything coming. and a lot of us were screaming from the rooftops that this could happen. but nobody believed that really this could happen. it's so hard to believe that this happened at our capitol in the halls of democracy, during democracy as it was playing out in realtime. it feels violating every time to look at these images. >> it is, it's very difficult to watch. it will be difficult, again, today. but the job of the house managers, as you say, was to put it into context and to show that it wasn't just spontaneous, it wasn't just about that day. it wasn't about one speech on january the 6th from the
president on the ellipse, it was ant months and months and months of establishing the big lie. and we have established now our connection with chris krebs. chris, it's good to see you this morning. what did you make of the presentation from house managers yesterday, making the case that the president, as you pushed back against for many weeks yourself, the president making the case that he, in fact, had won the election. >> so i only actually got to catch part of yesterday's presentation by the house managers. the other side of -- or the other chamber in congress is actually in business and i had the honor to testify in front of the homeland security in a marathon 3 1/2 hour hearing but what i did catch, you know, reenforced and reminded everyone of what truly happened, not just on january 6th, but the leadup to january 6th, the months and months and months of the big lie, the propaganda the, in fact, a classic information
operation. and what i found so striking as you watch that -- the footage that they presented yesterday, it was almost an out of body experience that, you know, this couldn't possibly have happened in the united states of america. and that's, to me, why it is so critically important that the senate, in fact, convict the president so that we don't normalize this sort of behavior. it is unacceptable and an an athema to democracy and we have to make clear in the united states of america that this is unacceptable, we have to make the same message to struggling and emerging democracies worldwide as well as to dictatorships and adversaries of the united states that we're not going to tolerate this. >> one of the arguments we continue to hear from some of the republican senators, chris, that we can safely guess will vote to acquit donald trump is that the reason they continued to go out and talk about the big lie is because their own constituents were raising concerns and they were merely
giving voice to those people. josh hawley said, you know, many of my people in the state of missouri, they have come to me, they have called my office, they're worried the election was stolen and all i'm doing is giving them a voice in washington. what do you say to that? >> it's an echo chamber. it's a nonsensical argument. they're stoking these concerns, these fears. there is no independent analysis that has supported a legitimate independent analysis that has supported any of these claims of a stolen or rigged election. every single one of them. 60 plus court cases and those that keep saying they were dismissed on standing. that's not true. pennsylvania, wisconsin, georgia, courts ruled on the merits as well as the standing side. there's nothing to this. they're reenforcing the narrative because it benefits them politically. >> i do want to ask you, you were giving testimony on capitol hill yourself about stopping the
next cyberattack on this country. we, of course, endured a big one with solar winds, still dealing with the wreckage of that. what did you tell congress and how do we do better going forward? >> well, you know, this is really the problem of our times, in fact i think we've got three main problems facing the country. first is this increasing cyberthreat. the second is the disinformation challenge that we have in front of us. and also, as we heard from senator warner, is the domestic terrorism issue. but on the cyberthreat, you know, we need solid leadership from industry, the private sector's got to step up and realize that there are risks associated with technology and you can't treat, you know, your computing, your technology as just a technical risk problem. it's truly a business risk, like financial risk. we need government to step up, fund, and require and expect more, not just of their
agencies, but of the contractors to government. and lastly, of course, we need to keep funding and boosting my agency, cisa. >> that's -- all right, chris krebs, thank you very much. >> got to get that plug in there. >> we really appreciate it, you got it. that does it for us this morning. msnbc's special coverage of the second impeachment trial of donald trump continues after this final break. you're strong. you power through chronic migraine-15 or more headache days a month each lasting 4 hours or more. botox® prevents headaches in adults with chronic migraine. so, if you haven't tried botox® for your chronic migraine check with your doctor if botox® is right for you and, if samples are available. effects of botox® may spread hours to weeks after injection causing serious symptoms. alert your doctor right away, as difficulty swallowing
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right now msnbc's special coverage of donald trump's second impeachment trial, and today here in washington, house managers will pick up the threads of the story they've weaved in a visceral way. forcing senators to relive the horror of january 6th through never before seen footage of officers beaten and stopped by the mob. rioters surging through the halls of the capitol, their own colleagues literally running for their lives. it's almost universally considered harrowing and emotional. but did it change anyone's mind? the bar for house managers is not just to make the case that the riots were horrific, and dangerous, but that it was donald trump's fault. and listening to republican senators it's not a case they've made, at least not yet. i'm hallie jackson, live just blocks away from where this