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tv   Second Impeachment Trial of Donald J. Trump  MSNBC  February 11, 2021 6:00am-9:00am PST

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right now msnbc's special coverage of donald trump's second impeachment trial, and today here in washington, house managers will pick up the threads of the story they've weaved in a visceral way. forcing senators to relive the horror of january 6th through never before seen footage of officers beaten and stopped by the mob. rioters surging through the halls of the capitol, their own colleagues literally running for their lives. it's almost universally considered harrowing and emotional. but did it change anyone's mind? the bar for house managers is not just to make the case that the riots were horrific, and dangerous, but that it was donald trump's fault. and listening to republican senators it's not a case they've made, at least not yet. i'm hallie jackson, live just blocks away from where this trial is happening, and we have
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so much to get to in the next 90 minutes, along with my colleagues here with us this week, katy tur, stephanie ruhle. the challenge today for the house managers is going to be to get into the aftermath of what happened on january 6th but we've already learned a number of new things, just from the last 24 hours. because house managers showed a trove of never before seen security video, body cam footage, radio transmissions piecing together the day. we're going to show it to you in the order it happened on january 6th. starting with a new detail from before that day and of course a warning, you've heard it before but some of this video and audio is disturbing. house managers say when then president trump tweeted what they described as a kind of save the date for the rally back in december permits had not even been requested yet for the 6th and organizers ended up amending their original request. fast forward to the 6th. listen to the police scatter audio from just after the president finished up his speech. >> multiple capitol injuries, multiple capitol injuries.
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>> be advised -- >> intel be advised you've got a group of about 50 charging up the hill on the west front, just north via the stairs. >> throwing metal poles at us. >> assault. multiple law enforcement injuries, get up here. >> inside, once rioters broke in, here's a new piece of video. senator mitt romney, walking down the hallway, running from the other direction, officer gene goodman, look at it again, as he passes romney, barely breaking stride, he directs the senator to turn around, romney does and starts to run. at about the very same time staffers for house speaker nancy pelosi were scrambling into a conference room to barricade themselves in for safety, minutes later the mob found its way into that same hallway, looking for their boss nancy pelosi, breaking through one of the two doors while pelosi
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staffers hid just feet away under a table. also seeking cover from the mob around that very same time, former vp mike pence, security footage shows secret service evacuating the vice president and his family out a back door in the senate chamber. keep in mind, just two minutes before this then president trump was attacking pence on twitter. >> and a few minutes later chuck schumer was being escort by his security detail in an undisclosed ho location, he was quickly turned around and ran in the opposite direction. the impeachment managers called this a near miss with the mob. and while that was all unfolding inside, here is a look at what the officers were facing outside, even a couple hours later, a massive, violent mob, now look and listen to what it was like inside that mob from an officer's body cam.
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it is hard to watch. all of it was hard to watch. it is emotional. it is powerful. is it convincing any of these republican senators who are tasked now with this item whether to acquit or convict donald trump? >> and if not, what about a criminal investigation? now that we've just gone through this timeline, what happens after this? if you can't convince these republicans, what is this going to mean in terms of the law? >> listen, they were meticulous and thorough in the way they laid the case out yesterday and again we have another day of this today. they went back before september 6th as you laid out, showed how he kept saying how the election would be rigged, mail-in ballots were fraudulent, don't believe any results. if it is a result where i don't win. he knew that his supporters took
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him seriously. they showed that he knew what would happen when he sent his supporters to protest somewhere, that they would often show up armed, that things would get violent. they also played some sound with those supporters talking about how they took the president at his word, that they did not believe the election would be fair. i also went to pennsylvania. i spoke to a number of supporters and i asked them, if you truly believe democracy has been stolen from you, which the president is laying the groundwork for, what are you going to do about it? i want to show you a conversation i had with one man. >> what are you prepared to do? >> anything possible. >> what's anything possible? >> any and all means. >> how far do you take that? >> i'm a united states veteran, i served, i took an oath to defend my country. to the best of my abilities, and i will do it. >> would you take up arms? >> if that's what it comes to, yeah. >> really? >> absolutely i would. >> absolutely i would, that was
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back in september in pennsylvania. listen, i don't know if that gentleman showed up at the rally. he wouldn't give me his name. i couldn't follow up with him but it does give you a picture of the mind-set of trump supporters and i just think we should keep that in mind when we hear the defense argue and try to hang their case on the fact that the president said peacefully on the day of september 6th, go home peacefully. >> there's a discussion, and there's going to be a discussion, which we'll hear likely starting tomorrow from the trump defense attorneys about the rhetoric used, they're going to point to democrats, and make this semantic case and the question is whether it's compelling to senate republicans. garrett haake, monica alba, kristen welker at the white house, and also andrew weissman. it's about connecting the dots, garrett, at least one top ranking republican senator has said, yeah, i actually think
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they did a good job with that. there hasn't been much more of that sentiment that we've seen, right? >> reporter: well, i don't know about that, hallie, look, republican lawmakers just as much as democrats were shaken by what they saw yesterday. the question is will the emotion they feel, the anger they feel about what happened here on january 6th lead them to a conviction or not? the task for the impeachment managers is a difficult one. they've been lengthening the timeline here. they've been trying to make the case that this is not just about what happened on january 6th but it's about all the groundwork laid by the president going up to that point today, we'll see them talk a little bit about what happened in the aftermath of the attack on january 6th and they're going to try to bring this back around to that constitutionality argument because that may ultimately be the element on which republican lawmakers may try to vote to acquit the president. senator john thune was one of those who was praising the impeachment managers and whose vote seemed to be in play.
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here's what he told reporters afterwards yesterday. >> these guys were -- i think they were very effective. and i'll see what kind of argument the defense puts up. but yeah, i'm going to listen and draw conclusions when it's all done. >> are you drawing -- are you seeing the connection between the president and what happened on january 6th? >> i think they've done a good job connecting the dots. >> reporter: now, mitch mcconnell, the top senate republican, has sort of been sending signals in theory his vote is still in play here too. that would be a major shift since both he and thune voted this trial itself was unconstitutional. ladies? >> monica, when we were listening to the house managers argue they really focused on vice president mike pence and what was happening with him during the insurrection. we haven't heard anything from pence, really, since then. since the inauguration. what's going on with him? >> reporter: yeah, it's an
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excellent question, katy, really hear at the center of it this was a strategic move by the house democrats we can report to center a lot of yesterday's arguments on what would have happened, and questions surrounding the former vice president's safety with that new video evidence showing him being escorted out of the senate chamber, along with his family. remember, just days afterwards we reported that those in the former vice president's orbit were furious with then president trump because he never called to check in on the safety of mike pence or his family while they were sheltering in place at the capitol. that is a furor that remains, an anger around not just those close with the former vice president but even amongst people like himself who were angry and upset that after four years of real devotion and loyalty, that is what he was then responded with on the final days as they were preparing to
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leave office. but we haven't heard anything from him at all as it relates to the trial. it is quite striking that neither donald trump or mike pence have weighed in publicly on what we've seen in the first few days of this, and now, also, as we're seeing the defense team take all of this in, they also haven't acknowledged any extended remarks or reaction how they may have to change their strategy after all of that new evidence and those videos that really were so striking and chilling and really amount to compelling new evidence, were presented yesterday. bruce castor and david schoe ne maintained they have been in direct contact with trump and that he has not expressed displeasure but they will have to sit in the senate chamber, listen to all of that as we see a continuation of this and really have to try to decide how they're going to answer this question of how can you surmise anything but drawing a direct line from the months of misinformation, and baseless
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claims and dangerous remarks that donald trump kept disseminating to what happened on january 6th, which is what the house impeachment managers did yesterday, and they're expected to do again today. >> kristen, republicans like rick scott are saying what happened on the 6th is in the past, joe biden shouldn't focus on this, he should focus on the pandemic, the crisis at hand. but that is actually what he's doing. walk us through the president's day. >> reporter: let me walk you through the president's day, steph, and then do analysis about the strategy here at the white house. he has yet another day of trying to counterprogram what is happening on capitol hill. he's going to be meeting with senators a little bit later on this morning to talk about infrastructure. of course that's a key part of his covid relief plan, part 2 of it, if you will, then a little bit later on today he's going to be touring the national institutes of health, he'll be delivering remarks there, the focus will be on covid-19. it comes as he's trying to get his relief package passed and it
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also comes as nbc news reported overnight, based on conversations with multiple officials that president biden is considering sending out masks in a targeted way so not just to americans, but to vulnerable communities and potentially to schools as well but no final decision has been made. steph, all of that comes against the backdrop of multiple questions that we have been putting to the administration, has the president been watching what's been unfolding on capitol hill? does he have a reaction to it? what does he think that means for the possibility of conviction? so far the white house continues to essentially say that the president is focused on his agenda and on doing his work, but at some point the question becomes, steph, could this strategy backfire? he is the commander in chief. he's also the consoler in chief. now, we will have a chance to potentially ask him some questions during that event when he speaks with senators a little bit later on this morning so we'll see if his strategy
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changes at all today. guys, back to you. >> andrew, back to the trial. what did you make of the length that the house managers were trying to make between the president's own words and the actions of january 6th? >> well, that's going to be absolutely critical because while it's very important to show the public the effects of what happened on january 6th, ultimately this is about former president trump and what he intended or recklessly set in motion. i think today will actually be some of the strongest evidence on that point because i think really the strongest case for the president's actual intent of what he wanted to do is his reaction to what was going on on january 6th because if he were an innocent man, if he did not intend this to happen, he would have taken very different
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actions on january 6th. he would have immediately tried to quell the violence. he would have sent in the national guard. he would have said a lot of things publicly to make sure that this did not go any further. so i think the events of what happened on january 6th is going to be a key focus for the democrats. and remember, what they're going to have to anticipate is, you know, the key case for donald trump is going to be that there's no direct evidence of the president saying i want you to commit violence. i want you to go into congress. so they have to anticipate that kind of defense and point out the contrary arguments. >> but at the same time republicans had to listen, yesterday, as they learned the president called tommy tuberville around the time mike pence was taken by security. the only public statement from the in that hour was against
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mike pence saying he didn't have the courage to overturn this vote and despite that i want to share what some republicans who were in that room, some senators, what their reaction was last night. >> the not guilty vote is growing after today. i think most republicans found the presentation by the house managers offensive and absurd. >> well, from the start i've said that i think this is about removal. and i think it's a bad precedent to be convicting former presidents, private citizens. >> i think that it's -- there's nothing new here. for me, at the end of the day, i think that we don't have jurisdiction as a court in order to pursue this, so nothing that i've seen changes my view on that. >> nothing changes josh hawley's view or lindsey graham but what about the department of justice, how do they see this kind of information and what do they do about it? >> stephanie, that is an excellent question because you can -- we can all talk about sort of what's going to
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ultimately happen here if the senators don't fulfill their oaths of office, and fully and faithfully executing the law but it's important to remember-- merrick garland are steeped -- they're going to clearly see what it is, which is domestic terrorism. i'm -- >> monica alba, garrett haake, thank you for your reporting, and andrew for your analysis. we appreciate it. so much more special coverage up ahead. hakeem jeffries, an impeachment manager on the first trial, on what democrats need to do today to finish making their case. there he is. then later, why former president donald trump is now at the center of a new criminal investigation. w at the center of a new criminal investigation. [ making popping noises ]
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of january 6th as impeachment managers make their case this week including perhaps our next guest sitting on the hughes floor as rioters tried to break in. members of his family were threatened that day. hakeem jeffries is the chair of the house democratic caucus and impeachment manager during donald trump's first trial. congressman, good morning, thank you for being back on the show. >> good morning, great to be with you. >> let's talk impact and strategy. one of the things that stood out to me is the way the current crop of impeachment managers essentially tried to let some senate republicans off the hook for their own claims of voter fraud, saying you are different than donald trump, what he did is different than you. do you think that's effective moving forward? >> i think that approach made a lot of sense, the house managers presented a clear, convincing and compelling case from beginning to end. i expect that that will continue today. the one thing that is different is that most of those senators,
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democrats and republicans, voted not to object to the certification of the results. and that is a difference between their perspectives at the end of the day, after we returned on the evening of the january 6th insurrection, versus donald trump who continues, to this very day, we believe, to perpetrate the big lie that the election was stolen from him. so there is a clear distinction with the exception of sycophants like josh hawley and ted cruz. and i think the house managers were very skillful in drawing that distinction. >> how about their perspective as of last night, someone who's a sometimes sycophant, lindsey graham, he said that after watching yesterday he thinks it is more likely that more republican senators are leaning towards acquittal. you have been in that impeachment manager's seat before. after hearing lindsey graham say
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that, do you believe that strategy should change in any way or that's just lindsay noise? >> i think that's just lindsay noise. it's hard to take him seriously right now. you never know what kind of lindsey graham you're going to get depending on the day of the week that it is. but i think the house managers are going to continue to conduct themselves in a serious, solemn, sober and substantive fashion focused on the fact that they need 17 republicans in order to obtain a conviction. and i think that there are at least 17 republicans who are willing to consider the evidence, follow the facts, apply the law and be guided by the constitution and at the end of the day, if they do that and let the chips fall where they may i think there is a possibility that you can convince enough of them to convict donald trump because the evidence is so clear. it's open and shut, and it's chilling that donald trump incited a violence insurrection that had deadly consequences. >> congressman, house impeachment managers have spoken
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about donald trump pushing the baseless voter fraud claims, the big lie that the election was stolen. they're not addressing, though, senate republicans who were pushing these same claims at the same time the president was. do you think that they should call them out? do you think that they should let it go? what's your opinion on that? >> well, i think they are appropriately being respectful of the senate in its entirety as a court of impeachment, and giving everybody the presumption that they're going to follow their oaths as impartial jurors to consider the facts and the evidence as it's being presented. it's probably a recognition that with respect to some of those senators they are lost but you don't need a unanimous verdict. you just need 67 senators. and so, you know, it's just hard for me to believe, however, on this point that when you listen to the evidence that's being presented in such a compelling
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way, that we all lived through and for me what was striking was to hear the police radio calls, these are brave men and women but there was terror in their voices. we've lost the line. this is now effectively a riot. 1033, which of course is a call that the police need help. how can any of these so-called law and order senators actually whitewash this information when they know that that mob was summoned to washington by donald trump, radicalized over a period of months by the telling of the big lie, and decided that they, by his remarks, will continue to use the word fight, including "fight like hell" as a phrase and told them to march on the capitol which resulted in the violent attack. >> to katy's point and your point, congressman, these impeachment managers incited a lot of republicans, the co-founder of the federalist
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society, liz cheney, ben sasse, for example, others, justice scalia, you referenced listening to that police radio sound, the audio from those dispatchers, and i wonder what it was like for you and frankly your staffers reliving some of these moments as all of these senators are doing as well. >> one of the more emotional moments for me was to see the staffers to speaker pelosi. the speaker is so phenomenal. she cares about the members, she cares about her staff, our staff, the capitol police. and to think about the terror that they must have been experiencing, both in terms of the initial flight and being just a few feet away from those enemy combatants, those violent seditionists who actually broke one of the doors and perhaps were endeavoring to break the second one where they were hiding under a table is just --
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you know, i mean, i don't know how any human being can watch that footage and not want to hold the person responsible for it, the former president of the united states of america. >> congressman hakeem jeffries, thank you so much for joining us. still ahead, a lot on the line for republicans as this impeachment plays out. if you're wondering why so many of them seem to be opposed to impeaching the former president, maybe just listen to their voters. >> the democrats and republicans, whatever, they need to figure this out together. i'm just sick of it. >> we're impeaching a president that's not even president anymore and that's taxpayers' money. take fuzzywuzzy28. blamin' losses on a laggy network. only one or two. verizon 5g ultra wideband is here, the fastest 5g in the world, with ultra... low... lag! stop blaming the network
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while the last few days have seen dramatic images shown by the impeachment managers there haven't been any dramatic shifts in the opinion of the american public, at least not so far. according to the latest gallup poll some majority of americans want the senate to convict him but when broken down by party only 10% of republicans support conviction. and a new survey from vox and data for progress goes even further, 69% of gop voters would be less likely to vote for someone who finds their former president or the former president guilty. and if you're wondering how republican voters could still be so pro-trump after all of those dramatic videos, it could have
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something to do with the media outlets that they are watching. >> we have continuing coverage of a bipartisan betrayal of the american people and our constitution. let's watch the dagger plunge even further into the backs of we the people and this country. >> the vote's already done, it's already over. so this is just for ratings, this is just for politics, this is just for some kind of emotional feel. >> let's go to nbc's morgan chesky who is on the ground in dallas. morgan, you've been talking to voters out there. what are they saying about what they've seen during the trial? have they even been watching? >> reporter: some have, katy. what's so interesting is that we knew this would be a polarizing process but to listen to the differing of opinions, it is striking to see and hear what lens they're viewing this impeachment trial play out in. i had a chance to speak to voters from all over the country, and you really do hear a little bit of everything.
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and what's important to note here is that not necessarily everyone thinks that the trial should necessarily be happening one way or the other. take a listen to what they had to say. >> i believe in everyone has free will, they make their own decisions. i believe that there were grown adults that did things that they shouldn't have done. >> people have free will. but when the leader of their country is telling them to do something, they believe what he's telling them. >> if he's the president, he should have been somewhere in trying to stop it but there was no stopping it. they just let it happen. >> and a quick note from a woman that i spoke to who do not appear in that selection of interviews, she's a business owner hear in dallas, i asked her, where do you stand on impeachment, she says i don't care about impeachment, i want somebody to solve this pandemic, so we can get back to work, so i can bring employees back. because right now she says all of this that's happening in
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washington isn't helping me right here. katy? >> morgan chesky live there for us, morgan, thank you for that. >> hallie, we should just note, it also doesn't have to be one way or the other and for people who are watching this, the impeachment isn't holding up covid relief, they're working on that. >> steph, thank you for that. we've been talking about what's going on with former president trump and this impeachment trial is not the end of the problems for him, it seems. there's now a criminal investigation into the former president's attempt to try to overturn georgia's election results. that investigation includes that phone call. you remember this one, the one that then president trump made to the georgia secretary of state to find the votes to help him win. the king of georgia politics, greg, you know all about this, tell us about this investigation, how quickly is it moving and what is the potential liability here? >> well, look, this is a far reaching criminal probe into
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whether or not donald trump violated state law, not just with that phone call we've all heard but also whether or not he violated state law by pressuring govern kemp to have a special session, undue pressure on the attorney general and whether or not his campaign actively promoted lies and falsehoods by putting rudy giuliani before a senate state hearing promoting those falsehoods. this is going to be a fast moving and wide ranging investigation. what's really interesting is the district attorney said it could also move as quick as march. he said the next fulton county grand jury is set to convene in march. >> let's remind our viewers of specifically what trump said on that phone call with georgia's secretary of state. watch this. >> all i want to do is this. i just want to find 11,780 votes, which is one more than we
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have, because we won the state and flipping the state is a great testament to our country. >> and it wasn't just that call. he pressured former governor kemp, david perdue, kelly loeffler. how much will that factor into all of this, and all those people i mentioned, republicans. >> they're republicans, and this will all factor into the investigation. obviously the call is the center piece. we've all heard it. it's direct evidence that if she decides to move forward with these criminal charges that they'll be the center piece of the criminal prosecution. but she's also asking governor kemp, attorney general carr, lieutenant attorney duncan. she said she could start requesting grand jury subpoenas as early as march. >> greg, the house democrats cited that phone call in the article of impeachment. they're arguing that article right now in front of the
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senate. what about the timing with these investigations being announced this week? >> yeah, the republicans say that it was not accidental, coinciding with the u.s. senate proceedings. they say that it was -- this is being used to continue to promote falsehoods against president trump that in their words, in their view, that he is not to be held responsible for inciting the insurrection on january 6th. the prosecutors office says that she's simply following her route to a potential prosecution. and look, this has been in the works for weeks. it just happened to come out this week is what she says. >> greg bluestein, thank you very much for bringing us your reporting. the powerful and at times emotional case made by the impeachment managers riveted a lot of the senators but did it change any minds? next up, senator alex padilla on what he's hearing from his republican colleagues.
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so as we are coming back from the break, we have about two hours until house impeachment managers make their case on day two of their arguments. this will be the close. this will likely be a focus on the aftermath of what happened on january 6th. tying the shocking images shown yesterday back to former president trump. here's part of what they laid out so far. >> he told them their victory was stolen, the election was rigged and the patriotic duty was to fight to stop the steal. when they were primed and angry and ready to fight, he escalated and channeled their range with a call to arms. show up on january 6th. >> because he was inviting them, the insurgents were not shy about their planning. they believe they were following the orders of the commander in chief. >> this violent mob that showed up here on january 6th didn't
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come out of thin air. president donald john trump incited this violence. >> here now democratic senator alex padilla of california one of only three people sworn in after january 6th. he is hearing the arguments as one of the few senators who is not also a witness. senator, good morning to you. that's an interesting point we want to let our viewers know about. good morning. >> good morning to all of you. and true, i wasn't in chambers, like most of my colleagues were on january 6th. but watching it unfold in realtime from california. and so i think that's one of the unique perspectives i do have. as it played out on january 6th i was able to see what was happening on the inside and the outside as it unfolded, a vantage point a lot of my colleagues might not have had until yesterday and by the looks in the room, by the emotion in the room, i note it was making a big impact. >> do you think the impeachment
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managers are doing enough when it comes to the republicans in the room to remove any doubts they might have had coming into this about whether former president trump incited the insurrection? >> look, i think the impeachment managers are doing a hell of a job in connecting all the dots that have been public for so long. right, what happened on january 6th wasn't spontaneous. it was pre-planned. it was, indeed, pre-meditated. those facts have been laid out, news reports, social media accounts, video, audio of trump and others. and look, the premise of all this is the big lie, that the election was going to be stolen, therefore the hashtag stop the steal, i've been in the election space for the prior six years as california's secretary of state, california being one of the biggest targets of trump's baseless claims about massive voter fraud. so as i've said so many times before, anybody who's been listening to trump is not shocked by what unveiled on
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january 6th. the house impeachment managers have laid it out plain and simple. trump's actions are indefensible and soon it's down to republican senators and their consciences to see what's going to happen. >> in all honesty, besides what you hope, do you believe that any of your fellow republican senators are open to these arguments? i mean, it's obvious democrats aren't going to change their view here. >> look, i've got to believe, and it's one of the reasons we're going through this trial, to begin with, if you lay out the facts, and people honor their oath of office to uphold and defend the constitution aft united states against all enemies, foreign and domestic, we're talking about domestic terrorists here, fueled by white supremacy, and other motivations by the most divisive president that i can recall in our nation's history, then it's an easy decision at the end of the
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day. but once both the impeachment managers and defense are done with making their case, like i said it's going to come down to republicans and their consciences, how will they choose to vote based on the oath or political motivations, we'll see. >> senator, the three of us were not inside the senate chamber yesterday, obviously. the cameras show the front of the chamber, they don't show what senators are doing. we've got some reporting about that, but you were there. just describe it a little more for us, what were your colleagues doing, what did they look like? what did they sound like, what were they paying attention to? what were they not paying attention to? >> look, i think for the vast majority of the house managers' presentation you could hear a pin drop in the room. the evidence, the video, the audio is so riveting and compelling. i think the environment was very sobering for many. again, most of them were in the chambers as it happened. now they're sitting at jurors in
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a trial at the scene of the crime. and i get a sense that for many of them seeing the side by side images of what was happening outside the capitol, and inside of chambers, side by side, that might have been for the first time them realizing how close they were, not just to being in danger, but potentially losing their lives. >> california senator alex padilla, thank you so much for being with us. i know you are going to have another long day and possibly long night and a few days ahead of you, thanks, senator. steph, katy, here we are, a couple hours away now for the close of house impeachment managers. we expected to focus, they laid out as you noted what happened before january 6th. what happened during january 6th and now what happened after. >> there's one person we know he's not speaking but who could impact the way some of these republicans vote and it's mike pence. we said it at the top of the show. mike pence was already angry with the president during those days. the president was telling those
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rioters about mike pence saying he didn't have the courage to overturn this or the ability to. where was mike pence yesterday how did he feel watching this hearing them say hang him? >> i've been talking to sources within that world and universe, there are people in that orbit who think it was very smart strategically for house democrats to continue to bring up mike pence's name. >> there's political reporting tommy tuberville, saying the president called him and he told the president that the vice president was evacuated from the chamber. two minutes later -- the president knew the vice president was in danger. and two minutes later or so he tweets that vice president pence let everybody down. tweets an attack on his vice president as the capitol is being attacked and as his vice president is being rushed -- and his family are being rushed to safety. that is dramatic, and that is pretty damning. >> mike pence would never say the words that pissed off, but boy that pissed off the people around him.
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extremely upsetting for the people in that orbit and close to that world and it is why their relationship -- all of the reporting i've done, it's severed, it's not the same. >> here's your chance to show it then. if this is country first, mike pence knows better than anyone what happened, he has the chance to say something right now. >> but does it serve him politically to do that if he's looking ahead to his own sort of ambitions. >> a lot of people would say, who cares, it's about much more than you at this point. >> and maybe it does. >> steph, katy, thank you much. we have a lot more to get to, including what president biden has been doing through all of this, trying to keep the focus on the pandemic ravaging the country. new cases of the coronavirus are slowing, that's the good news, but with more contagious variants spreading the cdc is asking americans do not let your guard down. does that mean two masks? new data from the cdc we're getting into next. plus, the president pledging to get kids back into school in his first 100 days. is one day a week really
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and for any important out there, that ain't much. this comes as the cdc finally weighed in on double masking, saying a cloth mask on top of a surgical mask can better spread air particles by over 96% because of a tight fit. but the biggest question right now, vaccines. and when will everyone be able to get them? earlier this morning, dr. anthony fauci said it could be sooner than you think. >> i would imagine by the time we get to april, that will be what i would call for, you know, for better wording open season, namely, virtually everybody and anybody in any category could started to get vaccinated. >> for more, let's bring in tom costella. dr. fauci saying april will be open season. does that mean there is a chance we could all be fully vaccinated by the summer? >> you know, this is pretty consistent, i would say, with what i ab hearing from top health experts across the country, expecting that by april it will be much more available
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for anybody who is not in a high risk priority group and, in fact, come may or june, the expectation is we may see most people who want to get vaccinated will get vaccinated. so it seems to be moving very quickly in that direction. there is a fascinating line of conversation on the way right now. we are seeing hospitalizations drop, cases drop, the death rate drop. now the talk is, the speculation is, if we have now had 100 million people or so already have it at one point or another been covid-positive and we got 35 million people or so who have gotten a vaccine, a single dose, are we seeing the earlier signs of herd immunity s. that why cases are dropping, hospitalizations are dropping, the death rate is dropping. if this continues to accelerate in terms of getting more vaccines, more doses into arms, then you can see where this quote/unquote herd immunity idea of 75-to-85% of the population having immunity to covid, then
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we may seem to get some sense of normalcy resuming our normal lives by the summer. but everybody has to, in fact, get vaccinated and everybody has to wear the mask. >> i know everyone wants to get back to their normal lives. thank you so much. if you at home are trying to figure out how to get a vaccine, we want to happen. head to plan the qr and you can sign up for alerts to tell you when you are eligible. coming up next, breaking details on how the impeachment managers will begin their final day of arguments. that is next. our special coverage continues.
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infrastructure week. it's back. later, we are expected to hear from chuck schumer and house speaker nancy pelosi at her weekly news conference. we know you will be seeing every highlight live in washington. i'm hallie jackson, blocks from where this impeachment kral is happening. back with you for special coverage right here and to get it started, he's a roadmap of what we are watching today. in just under two hours, you got day three of the trial starting in the senate. house managers presenting their second and final day of argument. they will have up to eight hours to do that. literally in the commercial break, we are getting new details on today's presentation house managers say they will be offering more evidence focusing on the role and the impact he had on the january 6th riot in what they call the former president's lack of remorse. after yesterday's gut-wrenching exhibit. we have new reporting that
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minority leader mitch mcconnell remains undecided. why that could be significant. plus the relative radio silence from the former president and his defense team. what sources are telling us and what multiple folks are saying, what part of the strategy may be when the trump lawyers gen their case. this is the close as we have been talking about. you got the trump defense team getting ready to go up and rebut some of this. the emotional gut punch is not something they would have access to, in the sense they will not be presenting that emotion. they will be making this argument that democrats have used similar rhetoric and point to what many republican senators voted on, which this is not constitutional. they've got a report. >> including mcconnell. >> it's good news that mitch mcconnell's sort of orbit is leading this out there. >> i f orbit is leading this out there >> i think about the checking of the dots.
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so if we see the defense pull together video from last summer, black lives matter protests and try to equate the two. a, you can't. b, what they did yesterday was tie president trump to the time line and his own personal actions. you cannot do that on the other side. >> they don't have vice president mike pence running for his life at any of the black lives matter protests. again, we're largely peaceful with pockets of violence. you can't compare the two. what they're going to try and do, though, the defense team is they're going to try and tap into an emotion of rage that the president has been treated unfairly for years and they will rely on the concerted media echo chamber to amplify that. it's already happening. we showed you what oan is saying and fox news. >> what they're not showing. >> exactly. >> i mean, as the trial was going on, fox news was talking
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about culture wars and the nba. >> there is a disconnect. >> there is one story going on right now, it's impeachment. if you watch social media, they're inventing stories. that nba anthem story isn't true. the fact that they're leading with that. think of the millions of people that watch that every night, that's their news, they're not getting all this information. >> there will be a house management impeachment today that focuses on what they are describing donald trump's lack of remorse. we will have monica alba and kelly o'donnell outside the white house and ashley parker, the white house bureau chief and msnbc analyst. you were talking with senior aides with the management team. their plan is to focus on the no regrets situation from donald trump as this was going down. >> that's absolutely right, halle.
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today, they are wrapping up their second day of testimony. their 16 hours. which is all they get and they're really trying to continue to connect the dots of the president's role in this insurrection. so they are going to have an all encompassing detail into that. and because that is really the question, yesterday really dug into the emotional component of what these senators experienced. but the question before these senators is did the former president incite an insurrection. a lot of republicans were emotional. it did get to them. but there was still this outstanding question on the what was happening was impeachable or not. but one thing i'm going to be watching is what senate minority leader mitch mcconnell does. sources tell me as of last night, after that gripping testimony, he was still undecided. the fact that he is still undecided is remarkable within
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itself compared to how he treated the last impeachment. he is also not whipping his members. he hasn't spoken about the trial when the members met several times this week. he continues to say this is a vote of conscience. i know it's hard to imagine mcconnell voting to convict donald trump. but i'm not sure that outside the realm of possibility considering it is this late in this game and he is still undecided, remember, just a few weeks ago, after the house had already impeached donald trump, he went to the senate floor and he said that the president provoked the insurrection. that's what we're trying -- they're trying to improve here, these house impeachment managers is that connection, donald trump provoking these insurrectionists. mcconnell already said it. all eyes will be on him. not that he will carry 17 republicans with him. his vote, himself, will be
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power. if he do gives it. >> monica, still no word from president trump, no tweets. as we learned yesterday, there won't be any ever since he is permanently banned from twitter. behind closed doors, he has to be reacting from this. what do you know about his thoughts and his lawyer's next move? >> reporter: we don't know very much, steph, exactly to your point because we're not hearing any of that publicly from the former president. but we are getting a pre spru from someone who was involved in the first impeachment trial of then president trump. that's jonathan turley, who was called asen expert witness. somebody who is often cited in conservative circle who's is a constitutional scholar who can weigh in on these matters. he is pointing out that most likely what we will hear from the former president's defense team tomorrow and beyond is the fact that what the house hangers did yesterday was largely emotive but not probative. jonathan turley making the case that you can say, for example,
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this is like pointing out this is a house on fire. here are the remnants. you can't necessarily materially show that person is guilty of the arson. so to this main central question of connecting the dots from what donald trump did after he lost the election with his claims of voter fraud and beyond leading up to the january 6th rally and everything that they showed yesterday in great detail with that new video evidence. jonathan turley is making the case that david schoen and bruce castor will have to show tomorrow that for them, you cannot make the argument that donald trump is singularly responsible. that will be their main pushback. a major open question still is whether they will redefine or retool any of their strategy after that first day which we know donald trump was so unhappy with. he was furious and fuming at mar-a-lago. they claim they're not going to change anything about what their plan is for tomorrow. but after today, there could be
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new questions. it was an almost deafening silence yesterday from that team in terms of that very powerful new evidence and someone else we haven't heard from at all react to these impeachment trial proceedings, former vice president mike pence, who was strategically a main part of the democrat's argument yesterday, guys. >> we haven't heard from vice president mike pence, ashley parker. we haven't also heard from donald trump stephanie said he has been permanently banned from twitter. he is not permanently ban fareed calling his favorite cable news hosts to talk to them from what's going on. he's not permanently banned with calling a news conference with dozens of reporters still covering him down in palm beach. do you want to hear from him? does he want to give his own defense? >> reporter: you are exactly right, even though he doesn't have that easy reactionary grievance too many as twitter, there is nothing preventing him from say calling into sean hannity show every night or fox
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and friends every morning, both forums that would be very likely to welcome him. what we are told his legal team, his family, his advisers, they are urging him and have been urging him to not weigh in. not to do anything that could sort of injudge his well-known penchant for self sabotage and their pitch to him is that this is headed, despite the incredibly emotional appeal by the house impeachment managers, this is headed for acquittal. anything he says or does is likely to undermine his own defense or make it that much harder for those republicans to go in there, watch those videos and still cast a vote to acquit him. so that's what they have been counseling and so far that's what we have been seeing from him. we have no reason to expect any different other than the caveat with former president trump, you simply never know. >> is that a caveat?
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we said it a thousand bill times. when you are watching trial coverage, what will you be looking for over the sect six-to-eight hours here? >> again, i think those videos they showed yesterday, which the defense teams plans to say were more emotive than anything else. anything that gets to the president's state of mind. not just on that day. you saw the house impeachment management do this. reprimed his reporters and weaponized them and some details to emerge. i'll be interested to see what happens today is what the president knew. right. it seems he was aware. he had first-hand knowledge that mike pence is incredibly loyal as a subservient mr. president his life was in danger. he was evacuated and protesters
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were seeking him, shouting, hang mike pence. in the midst of all of that he did not quell the violence. he put out a tweet, any more details about what donald trump knew and then what he did would be incredibly fascinating and i'll be watching tore that. >> let's head over to the white house. halle mentioned things we've said a thousand billion times, it's infrastructure week. but this time it is joe biden's infrastructure week or day. what itself the plan? >> well, it might feel like a whipsaw to go from impeachment to infrastructure. but that is the kind of biden blinders that the new administration wants to have on, to be able to focus on governing and they are expected to invite a group of senators from both parties however. they have not provided us a list yet of which senators would be included and secretary pete
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buttigieg as the transportation secretary would participate virtually for his first interaction with the white house to talk about one of his principle ideas when we get past what happens with the covid rescue package. they want to look at infrastructure as a way to stir the economy away where you could attract republican support, which has been lack in the covid talks. could that be a way for the biden team and president biden to reassert his attempt at unity. reassert his ability to negotiate with republicans with a positive result? so infrastructure is back and it's back in a new way under the biden administration. expect that to be where the focus is with president biden not to talk about impeachment, carrying on as it were not happening. >> excellent reporting all of you. thank you very much for being with us. up next, we already knew the capitol police officers were heroes. brand-new videos shown yesterday
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by impeachment managest show incredible length some went to, to prevent the riots from being perhaps so much worse. that's next.
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officers like eugene goodman already considered a hero even before that extraordinary impeachment trial. some lawmakers learn how close they came to running into that violent mob. this is one of those stories where you want to look at your screen. >> reporter: it happens fast for senator mitt romney who is there at the bottom of the screen in this never-before-seen security footage. he is walking out the senate chamber, trying to get to his smaller office in the capitol building during the insurrection. now look at the other end of the hall, that's officer eugene goodman sprinting to respond to the riots as he passes romney barely breaking stride, he directs the senator to turn around. romney does and starts to run. watch again how fast it happens. >> officer goodman came and saw me and said, go back in, it's not safe here. go back in, you will be safer in the chambers. >> romney had been a frequent target of donald trump's and a familiar one to trump supporters
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in that mob primed for violence. so this split second encounter may have been a more troubling outcome. he didn't know it was goodman who helped him. he says he spoke with the officer late yesterday. >> i expressed my appreciation for him for coming to my aid and getting back into the path of safety and i expressed my appreciation for all that he did that day. >> reporter: goodman sharing how exhausted he was, running up and down the stairs to keep the rioters at bay, like in this now well-known footage. it shows goodman luring the crowd away from the chambers, where senators like romney had been huddling, leading them right to police backup. goodman now honored as a hero, escorting vice president kamala harris to the inauguration ceremony last month and a bipartisan group of lawmakers has introduced a bill to award goodman the congressional gold
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medal to honor him. and his quick thinking and poise under pressure. >> goodman, of course, stayed out of the spotlight, largely, i want to bring in retired capitol police officer officer jones. he spent 37 years protecting the capitol. good morning. >> good morning, thank you for having me. >> what was it look for you, seeing those new videos and the audio, what your colleagues were up against during this insurrection? >> well, i take my hat off to them because of the bravery and the circumstances where they didn't have a new amount of help for that particular day. it's a sad situation where members of the board did not give them significant help to fight off the demonstrators, but for the police officer, you didn't see none of them run away you saw them act. if it wasn't for the police
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officer, some of the members probably would be here today. >> how do you think police officers around the country are going to absorb, understand this video when you think back, there are a lot of people over the last four years, police union chiefs that supported president trump. you know, people blue lives matter flags wearing the maga hat. a connection between the two. could president trump be losing support from a lot of those voters given what happened? >> i hope so i really hope so you know, i'm not surprised that some officers was involved in the demonstration. but i am surprised that capitol police did not have enough assistance for that magnitude of a demonstration. i hope congress and around the world look at these officers. yep, they wanted their statements, they called at 10:33. 10:33 is a policeman that's in
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trouble. when the policemen were in trouble, they stood their ground. so, hopefully, congress don't forget that. >> who do you think is responsible for this riot as you look at all of these images? >> i think you hav number one president trump has a lot to do with it. some of the congress have a lot to do with it. some of the senators have a lot to do with it. i think they should all be made to, for what they, how they played in a position, they should be made to answer to congress of why. i think they just, it's some of the senators and congressmen is just as much at fault than the president. >> to this point, to this date, all of us sitting here have not heard from capitol police on what happened and where things went wrong. there has been no news
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conference. there has been leadership changes, for example, operationally s. that enough? and how can it be we still a month and change later done have these answers, officer? >> number one, know that capitol police will be the fall guy, not being that's what's wrang with the situation. capitol police is going to end up being the fall guy. i think the side of the arms to the house. the side arms to the senate should be made to speak up. you have not heard from the side arm of the house or the senate. those were the ones who decided that capitol police did not see any assistance. so number one is i think they got off too early. i have spoken to the acting chief and you know my suggestion to her, don't be the fall guy. and you know, that's my real concern. >> what did she say to you, officer? >> she just mentioned, we just had an open conversation.
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>> i'd love to hear more about that. i know you want to keep a lot of that private. there is interest in that. thank you so much for coming on and for your unique and inside perspective on this. thank you. that's the backdrop, katie, stephanie. >> you know, i think about the officers, the capitol policed officerss who watched the video yesterday and were there and ab toshed that day if once again and then the. >> senators that came out and flushed it off, the ones likening it to the protests over the summer, the black lives matter protests. lindsay frame saying it was offensive to other republican lawmakers. i just wonder as a capitol police officer who put their body on the line to protect these lawmakers, what must they be thinking right now as they watch this senate debate this trial? >> and i go back to what is mike
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pence thinking? the last thing you ask me, if mike pence were to speak out, what does it mean for him politically? what does it mean for him now? have the last four years really served mike pence? look how he left office. look at the video he watched yesterday and do you really think right now the gop is paving the way for mike pence to run for president next time? i'm guessing nikki haley isn't. >> what is the one thing before we wrap up here that you will be watching for today, katie. >> i will see if they have any more evidence about the president's specific state of mind during the riot. >> what was he doing during that riot? we have no evidence of remorse or changing course. not while it was happening. >> how do they show what they say will be the highlight for them today, which is a lack of remorse in under two hours. we have a lot more to cover on msnbc. we will see you back here in washington tomorrow. after the break, it's chuck
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todd, andrea mitchell and craig melvin picking up the second impeachment of donald trump next. icking up thsee cond impeachment of donald trump next become the best! ♪“you're the best” by joe esposito♪ ♪ [triumphantly yells] [ding] don't get mad. get e*trade. your skin isn't just skin, it's a beautiful reflection of everything you've been through. that's why dove renews your skin's ceramides and strengthens it against dryness for softer, smoother skin you can lovingly embrace. renew the love for your skin with dove body wash. did you know you can go to to customizes your car insurance for your skin so you only pay for what you need? really? i didn't-- aah! ok. i'm on vibrate. aaah! only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪
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welcome to msnbc's continuing special coverage of the second impeachment trial of former president donald trump. conduct todd alongside andrea mitchell and craig melvin.
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we are now about 90 minutes away from today's house impeachment trial. house managers will use this day to finish laying out their case that the former president is guilty of inciting a deadly insurrection, which threatened the lives of the vice president and members of congress. yesterday, house managers released raw, disturbing, never-before-seen evidence of the attacks. it came so close to spiraling into a mass casualty event as they hunted for mike pence and speaker pelosi. there are consexting signals from mitch mcconnell, it's not clear if any senate republicans will vote to convict. >> in just a few moments, we will hear from senate majority leader chuck schumer. he could talk about impeachment as well. we also expect to hear from house speaker nancy pelosi seen at her weekly press conference on capitol hill and president biden. right now, meeting with a bipartisan group of senators at
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this meeting happening right now at the white house. they are discussing infrastructure. we just got a note from our chief white house correspondent kristen welker. he was asked, the president was asked about the impeachment hearing yesterday, kristen said, did you see the video? the president said, i am focused on my job. i watched the news. i didn't watch the hearing live. i think the senate has an important job. i think minds could have been changed. that coming from president biden just a few moments ago. cluck. >> you know, craig, andrea, that's the thing. before this trial started, there was a lot of punditry in this crowd and the speculation that, hey, we already know this outcome. some of us wanted to tap the brakes and say what will happen when they have to live the entire day over again? we were all wondering, what would happen? that day was yesterday. i think we're all pretty rattled here. it was more intense. andreaened and i were right where we are seating now when it
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was happening and to think we had no idea how bad it was. that's the question. these are human beings. these aren't potted plants in the united states senate. these are human beings. andrea. >> craig and chuck, the defense team was so weak on that opening day, the prosecution team, if you will, just to compare it to a trial, which it is not, was so strong and then so powerful yesterday, stacy plaskett, all of them, the individual evidence, the time line. as i say it was so gut wrenching, it was ha ready to understand how you could still find such resistance and josh hawley notably upstairs in the gallery, with his feet up and doing other business, almost sort of signaling how little he thought. >> i'll be honest, i'm not sure if he is self ostracizeing or os
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tra sizing. a lot of republicans blame hawley for the moment to coming to where we got. >> among his peers, there were plenty that came out, lindsey graham and others, a lot of what aboutism. you saw black lives matter, which is completely not analogous. i mean, nothing matched. nothing in our history matched the president of the united states telling people before, during and after and also his vice president later was still shouting with his family in the boughs of the capitol. >> i do think the timeline, i think a lot more eyebrows will be raised there in the upper chamber. there was so much video we saw is that we had not seen before. for instance, that video of eugene goodman, the capitol officer there, that video. i think we have it. it really struck me yesterday to
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see him escorting the senator from you that you, mitt romney, to safety. and that point and here's the video here, romney and you see goodman running towards him very quickly, just pats him on the back and tells him, come this way, away from the royters, apparently, the senator of utah hadn't seen that until yesterday. he was on his wray to the hideout, with understand the capitol had been breached january 6th. there was this officer that told him to return to the chamber. not until twins did the officer know it was eugene goodman? it was remarkable to see that video and some of the other videos from yesterday as well, guys. >> you know, i was also struck by, you know, hearing the accounts from some of those officers, first of all, seeing the officers and hearing the audio of them outside saying,
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you know, they've gotten through our flanks. the wire has been penetrated. trying to tell dispatch the capitol could be breached. that was to create a signal that the line had been they were up on the steps. we were sitting here watching them as it happened. i remember saying they are right at those windows, they will get in. they're not allowed on those steps. also hearing the accounts of the black officers, some crying afterwards in the rotunda at being called the n-word by this predominantly or all white crowd. the racial aspects of this and the cop-hating by people who claim to love the police, which is a refraining at all of the donald trump rallies. it's really just incredibly disturbing. >> look, i will say this, though. at the end of the day, it's about what those 17 republican senators and are there going to be 17 that join those 50
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democrats? let's take a look at this matchup of senate reaction. we'll let you decide what you think. >> it's just a very problem video. it's a part of the evidence. obviously, it's a part of the trial, of course, it's powerful how that influences final decision remains to be seen. >> it is said that i will look to the evidence that is presented. the evidence that has been presented thus far is pretty damming. >> reporter: do you think that the presentation was effective in linking the president? >> i'm impressed with the presenters. yeah. that link, we'll see, because i think that's what they have in there. >> i thinkers that more votes for acquittal after today than there was yesterday. because hypocrisy is pretty large for these people, standing up to, you know, rioters when they came to my house, susan collins' house. i think this is very hypocritical presentation of the
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house. >> craig melvin, it was that last comment there and i thought, boy, is that an outlier or not? then we found out the front-run tore replace rob portman in the u.s. senate in ohio, he mentioned josh mendel and doubled down of the election and went even further than lindsey graham. it's more proof we know who runs this party. >> yeah. it's quite stunning. i mane, really, chuck to hear the senior senator from south carolina try and draw a comparison between ba we saw transpire over the spring and summer in this country last year and what we saw on january 6th at the capitol. you can really, it's obviously not the first time he said something like that. it's not going to be the last time. but every time he says it, it's jarring considering, you know, considering where lindsey graham was. >> i know. we're all thinking what would john mccain be thinking? >> yes. >> i don't like to do that.
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i don't like to bring up people that are ghosts, if you will. it's not fair. it can mean unfair. but i know we're all thinking it. >> they were brothers. and they traveled non-stop together. that relationship. well, joining us, sheldon lighthouse, first of all, your reaction to what you saw yesterday, how close you came? all of you lived it, but you didn't have a 360 lens view. and that was the first time any of us, including yourselves could see just how close you all came to the government being toppled? >> reporter: yeah, it was prettying stunning. for those of us that work in this building, there is something very intimate about those pictures. because we know those hallways. we recognize those corners. this is very much, you know, in
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a known familiar place and it's particularly jarring to see those images. to me, the most stunning thing, however, was the emphasis that the house managers made on how long the physical combat between these assailants and the capitol police went on. this was not one encounter. this was hours of steady, physical hand-to-hand combat with hundreds of injuries and some fatalities and, you know, you really got to come away with a lot of pride in our capitol police and metropolitan police for what they went through and how well they've sustained. >> senator, you've prosecuted your cases. you are an attorney general and then some. what do you think is left for this prosecution to do here when they finish up today?
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i mean, you know, i know they probably don't need to persuade you anymore, but what do you think is missing? what do you think will be helpful if they're trying to find 17 republican votes? . >> well, they have been through what they call the provocation phase, which is the long effort by donald trump to -- >> senator, if you don't mind, i hate to do this to you. we got some remarks from president biden that are very brief. we want to get them out to people about the impeachment trial. >> i was going straight through last night until a little after 9:00. i watched some this morning. i think the senate has a very important job to complete and i think my guess is some minds made the change. but i don't know.
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[ inaudible question ] >> senator white house, he says some minds were changed. i was asking you to change minds of the 17. what is left? what do you think is necessary to perhaps convince your rob portmans of the world? >> well, as i said, we have been through the provocation and recruitment stage. we have been through the chronicling of the incited attack on our capitol building. and now we're going to be looking at what the harm was i think it will be the harm and injury to individual officers. it's going to be all the way up to the international consequences of you know foreign media mocking our american system of government because we allowed this to happen. and then i think they'll sum up their case. but at the moment, they've done
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such a powerful job, let's put it this way, if they were in front of a real jury, the defense would be coming for a plea. >> senator, i want to ask you about something you said last night and give you an opportunity to sort of clarify. senators cruz, senators hawley. you told lawrence o'donnell that there may have been, shall we say, some, i don't know, reluctance by some republicans to create a delay long enough to allow that mob to make their way in? what did you mean by that? you weren't suggesting some of your republican colleagues were xris it, were you? >> that is what the senate ethics committee needs to look at. and i hope that they do a thorough job of looking into it. because we cannot count on the fbi and other investigative groups to look at the conduct of senators because senators are
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protected by the speech and debate clause from a lot of investigations. so it's on us as the senate to make sure we fully understand what our colleagues were up to. but when the president is calling a senator and asking him to delay further the legitimate process of certification, so that the mob can interrupt that processing that's a pretty compelling statement by the president of the united states. and it opens a very important line of inquiry for the ethics committee. >> you are talking about that phone call from senator tur byville? >> correct. >> is the ethics committee, senator, launching an investigation into this or is this something you think should happen? >> they have been asked to. the letter has been received. seven senators signed that
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letter. and the best i can tell, they're in the initial process of reviewing whether to open the matter and go forward with a full and formal investigation. >> well, the ethics committee used to be evenly zooi divided by design and it would have to, does this have to be a majority vote? what would be the process for it to be approved? >> it takes a majority and the ethics committee remains evenly divided between republicans and democrats by design and one hopes that the ethics committee will stand by its guns and do its duty and not allow partisan passions to veer from that course. >> senator, what's the atmosphere like between the senators right now? is there -- i'm just curious of
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just how uncomfortable some of the relationships have become? >> it's very, very mixed. i mean, we are seeing very strong memories replayed and very powerful imagery of very difficult events and we're looking at a case that has been made very convincingly by the house managers of president trump's role and guilt and yet we're looking across the middle of the room at a great number of colleagues who simply refuse to be convinced, for reasons well beyond the state of the evidence in the trial him. >> senator sheldon whitehouse, democrat, rhode island, thank you, thanks as always for your time, sir, i do appreciate it. let's turn now to chief correspondent kristen welker.
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she is at her post there 1,600 pennsylvania avenue. shelves in the oval office with president biden a few moments ago for those comments on impeachment. kristen, what do we hear from the president? >> reporter: well, i asked president bind if he had seen the video yesterday and what his reaction was and his response as you all just played a short time ago, was that he did not watch the proceedings live but that he did see news reports and based on that, president biden says he thinks it's possible that some minds could have changed. so that is a significant statement coming from the president of the united states. now he says he does not know that for sure. i tried to follow up with him. i said, do you think, therefore, the conviction is possible? and at that point we were ushered out of the room. but this is significant, craig, chuck, andrea. this is really the first time we have heard specific comments from president biden about what we are all witnessing on capitol hill this week.
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of course, those videos, those new images and security footage which gripped most of the nation. biden thinks some minds could have been changed. his strategy is to keep the focus on his agenda. but that's becoming increasingly difficult, because we have been asking not only the president but his top advisers what his reaction is to these visceral images coming from capitol and pertain to his predecessor. guys. >> kristen, i am curious, is there some talk about the president addressing the nation after this trial is over? because no matter what, it's going to leave a mark. and he's, you know, his mandate i've always said the mandate he got, whether everybody agrees or not, on the democratic side, he got a mandate to heal the country and he's going to have to play healer in chief after this. what are their plans for that
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post-trial? >> reporter: well, based on the reporting from our team here, chuck, i definitely would not rule that out. i think it's safe to say that is something that would be on the table for consideration. because as you point out, this was critical to how president biden saw his mandate as president to try to unify this deeply divided country and so is it possible that once this is all finished? once there is a vote and a decision that he might come out and make remarks, it would be hard to see that we wouldn't hear from him, chuck, given the fact that he has tried to largely say on the sidelines, again, as we have been talking about for days now, try to stay focused on moving his agenda forward, key top of his agenda, of course, is trying to unify the country. >> in that regard, kristen, does he really or does the white house want this to be over quickly, more quickly than not? because they need to move son with confirmations and covid
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relief? >> reporter: publicly, of course, andrea, they said they will not put their finger on the scale or time line. but privately this trial cannot come to a conclusion quickly enough because, of course, as you know, political capital only lasts so long so president biden wants to get his covid relief package passed, wants to see all of his nominees confirmed. he thinks in order to do that, the senate has to get back to the business of being focused on his agenda. i can tell you based on conversations i've had with some of his close allies on capitol, democratic senators, they have the same feeling. >> kristen welker at the white house for us. thanks. we may have to come back to you in a bit. we are all joined by former maryland congresswoman donna edwards and msnbc contributor. former congressman is with us. joyce vance former u.s. attorney, she is also an msnbc
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contributor. guys, in just a few moments, i want to play some sound from jamie raskin yesterday, house impeachment manager of congressman from right there in maryland, donna. and because i think in a lot of ways for me this was sort of the thesis, if you will, from yesterday. we will play the sound and talk about it on the other side. here is the congressman. >> afterwards, overwhelmed by emotion, he broke down in the rotunda and he cried for 15 minutes. and he shouted out, i got called an n word 15 times today. and then he recorded, i sat down with one of my buddies, another black guy in tears just started streaming down my face and i said, what the f, man? is this america?
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that's the question before all of you in this trial. >> is this america? congresswoman edwards, i mean, we just heard from the president. he thinks minds may have been changed on wednesday. what say you to that? my mis -- any minds changed? >> i hope so. i think that's the compelling question, not just of yesterday but this entire proceeding. is this america? is this the kind of america that we want where a president of the united states can incite people to riot? i was in tears yesterday. that was one for those officers, so many of whom i know and who every day do their job. they were defending our institution. they were defending the capitol. i think that republican senators will have to ask themselves the
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same question that americans are asking, is this america and is this the standard that we want to set for the future of our democracy? most americans are going to conclude, no, whether the senators do or not. >> denver, you know firsthand this split inside the republican party and what donald trump has created here in this split. i just want to read you some of the reaction from some senators yesterday after watching the footage. i continue to say it's not constitutional impeaching a former president. rick scott, he never said when somebody should break in. he said people should do this peacefully. and then roy blunt, you have a summer where people were doing similar kinds of things. is this -- is that the rationale? is this the proof that many minds weren't changed? >> yes.
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thanks for having me. really an honor to be with the panel today. i heard some of this. i can't imagine after what we saw in the capitol that we have gone to quibbling. we will quibble on this? we have something bigger happening here? we are talking about if our boots are shiny enough. that's ridiculous. hear me out. i feel like it's almost like jamie and joe and the impeachment managers are making a case for conservatism. let me explain. it seems like they are the ones who say we should conserve the republic, conserve the institutions, really civilization. we should conserve the constitutional law that we live under. we should conserve the peaceful transfer of power. i have never seen anything like it. this is what -- if you say you are a republican, a constitutional republican, conservative, the argument from jamie, from joe, the impeachment managers, all of that looks like to me like it's what a real republican would say in protecting our institutions.
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i find it amazing you are looking at this evidence and you are absolutely somehow still quibbling about whether it's constitutional when he has been impeached. i will say this last thing. we had a minimum of seven white nationalist groups that were involved in this siege. seven. a minimum. we put that report out. we have had this discussion before. that's why i'm appalled by this. it's amazing to see the arguments. >> joyce, you are an experienced prosecutor. this is not a court of law. it's a court of politics. "the wall street journal" editorial board said they laid out a solid case there's no defense. how do you vote no? there's no defense for mr. trump's conduct on january 6th and before. mitch mcconnell is telling his gop colleagues that the decision to convict or acquit is a vote of conscience and that's appropriate after the electoral college voted on december 14th mr. trump could have conceded
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defeat. now his legacy is forever stained by this violence and his betrayal of his supporters in refusing to tell them the truth. that's powerful from the conservative editorial board of the "wall street journal." it doesn't seem to be moving, persuading republican senators so far. >> senator whitehouse got it just right earlier on your program, andrea. he said if this was a criminal court, trump's lawyers would have him hat many hand looking for a plea deal. we know it's not a criminal trial. we understand some of the jurors will vote their political views and not the evidence. i wonder if there's not a more subtle question that's been posed here by congressman raskin. when he tells the story about sitting with a capitol police officer and when he asks, is
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this america, there's another question, and that's who upheld their oath on january 6th. there's a sharp contrast between what former president trump did and what these capitol police officers did, what individual members of congress did, what staff on the hill did. i wonder if we won't have the chance to hear testimony from some of these police officers before it's all over. we are hearing their words, seeing them in video. house managers may well argue when they close and dare those senators to make a political vote to acquit the president in light of the brave people who went ahead and up in held their oath at great personal risk. >> congressman, the top two republicans in the senate, at this point they seem to be undecided. this is what they have said. >> i think they have done a good job connecting the dots.
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the president's twitter feed is a matter of public record. and they've done, i think i said, an effective job of going back several months and just showing that public record. >> do you have a sense where leader mcconnell is on any of this? >> you will have to ask him. >> 30 seconds. getting them on board, is that the only way there's a conviction? >> that is the only way there's a conviction. right now, they are looking at phone calls, what the committees are saying, what the voters are saying in their district. that's the thing you have to hear. they are voting for their political future, not the country. that's a shame and it's really, are you loyal to one individual, are you loyal to this ridiculous ridiculousness? be loyal to the constitution and values we want to uphold. our institutions are bigger than any individual. if it goes that way, it could sway votes. right now, i don't see that
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happening. >> donna, denver, joyce, thank you all. we will check back in with you three later this morning. that i promise. we will dive into the strategy for the second day for impeachment managers to make their case. our special coverage of the second impeachment trial of donald john trump continues next. om it. it's a reason to come together. it's a taste of something good. a taste we all could use right now. so let's make the most of it. and make every sandwich count. with oscar mayer deli fresh
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special coverage of the second impeachment trial of donald john trump. >> we are an hour away from the start of today's trial. house managers will finish laying out their case against the former president, chuck. >> we are expecting another dramatic and emotional day following yesterday's introduction of chilling new video and evidence surrounding the capitol attack and what we saw yesterday was a vivid reminder that the lives of congressional leaders, their staff, the vice president and police officers were in more serious danger than we saw in real time due to a mob that was incited by president trump's big lies, that a landslide election victory had been stolen from him. >> we saw security fooage showing how vice president pence and his family came steps away from the mob when they were taken to a safe location as the riots were chanting they wanted
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pence hanged. we saw mitt romney saved from the mob by gene goodman. we saw how lawmakers were being evacuated feet away from the rioters who had breached the building. >> some is not republicans seemed affected by what they saw and what they heard on wednesday. but mostly the caucus seems unmoved from its commitment to acquit the former president. the wild card in this, the wild card may be mitch mcconnell. a source familiar with his thinking says he is still undecided on whether he will support a conviction as the house managers prepare to finish laying out their case. >> we are expecting nancy pelosi to speak at any moment. this is her weekly briefing. obviously, more important today. we will keep an eye and ear on what she's saying. joining us from is our capitol hill correspondent garrett
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haake, monica alba, "washington post" philliprucker and pete williams. how is this going to continue? will they ask for witnesses? >> the witness question is still undecided. it doesn't seem as though the house managers think they need them. they are pleased with how yesterday's arguments went. they felt like they elongated the time line in the way they needed to beyond the president's speech on january 6th but all of his remarks leading up to it. they talked about his conduct during the actual attack on the capitol. today we will hear them discuss what happened afterwards. the president's lack of remorse, the way he conducted himself in the days a weeks following the attack. they will try to land the plane, tie this back together with an argument about why this is
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constitutional, why senate conviction is proper and why it's necessary and why this even meets the legal bar of incitement, which is something that i have been talking to republican lawmakers about this morning is going to be the second part of where they dig in. you will see republicans dig in on the question of constitutionality and does the president's conduct clear what is a very high legal bar on incitement? that's the contour of the debate we are going to see today. >> monica, senator whitehouse a few moments ago, he was on air with us. he basically said if this were a court of law, if the prosecution laid out the case that the house managers had laid out so far, the defense would be begging for a plea deal. at this point, what do we know about the president's defense? what do we know about their strategy? how do they plan to counter what we have seen and heard so far? >> that's what's so different, of course, craig about these impeachment proceedings and that
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it is its own kind of case layout and its own reaction with this vote to potentially convict or acquit that these house impeachment managers have to lay out. the defense team i have to tell you feels confident. they believe that the questions of constitutionality are on their side, even though they will admit that what the house managers presented yesterday certainly was emotional. but they don't believe it was probative. they will try to make the case that even though they presented all of this evidence, the tweets, speeches, voter fraud claims that are completely unsubstantiated, linking all of that as a trail to what happened on january 6th, that they don't believe senators will be convinced that donald trump was singularly responsible for what happened there. as garrett was talking about this question of remorse, you have to remember back to after january 6th when reporters asked then president trump if he felt
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anything he did was inappropriate that day or a part of his speech. he said no, that people had studied everything he said in that one hour and 15 minutes, if you remember, he used the phrase to a t and they felt it was appropriate. he almost called it like a perfect call in reference to his first impeachment. this is someone who since then has offered absolutely zero remorse. i will be fascinated to see today how the house continues to make that case and then how the defense answers it tomorrow. that's not a main part of their argument, at least what we have seen here. notably all week long, we do know the former president wasn't pleased with what he saw from his team on the first day. they tell me, they have no major plans to change anything about their strategy. >> phil, you reported it took hours to convince trump to get the rioters to stand down. what i have been wondering today when we wonder what does the impeachment managers have today
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as they deal in the aftermath, and you had a lot of sources, we had sources inside the west wing at the time who were not happy with the president, upset, some in tears. i keep thinking, maybe we will see affidavits today from some surprising names from the impeachment side as they try to sort of deal with the aftermath argument there. if this were a real trial, you would have some of the west wing folks called to testify. >> yeah. an interesting twist, chuck, one of the people who was in close contact with the president on january 6th and in the days that followed is one of the jurors in this trial, senator lindsey graham, who we interviewed him in the aftermath of the insurrection on the capitol. he said he had been trying to get the president to see this the right way but that the president saw the insurrectionists as his allies in his political journey, as his
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supporters fighting for him. it was, graham that helped convince the president, worked on the language that he gave on a trip down to texas to visit the border wall where the president finally talked about peaceful protesting. to monica's point, he was adamant he did nothing wrong, he handled the aftermath of the attack on january 6th entirely appropriately and that, of course, is not what many of his advisors felt. there were many in the west wing and members of his cabinet who disagreed. some of whom resigned in protest, including the labor secretary, elaine chow, who is the wife of mitch mcconnell, the senate republican leader. >> that's a strong point, because also there was the tweet six hours later saying -- praising the rioters and still going after pence and also saying this was a day that would live on in american history.
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indeed, for different reasons. pete, are there any updates on the investigation into the security failures that led to the breach of the capitol and possible conspiracies which were laid out yesterday by the house managers of the proud boys and others having organized this? >> that's a main focus right now. including trying to find out who killed officer brian sicknick and who planted the explosive devices at the headquarters of the republican and democrat national committees. the 220 or so cases that have been filed are against individuals. there have been some conspiracy cases among individuals. what we are waiting to see is if the justice department will file charges of the conspiracy, which is a serious felony, up to 20 years in prison. they indicated that's something we exploring. the question is, the proud boys who have been accused of having planned this operation or something like this well in advance, also the oath keepers, some other extremist groups, the
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question is will the federal government take this to the next step and charge actual groups with being responsible for the capitol siege? that's actively under investigation but no such charges have yet been filed. >> we are watching here on the left side of your screen lawmakers and attorneys representing -- excuse me, house managers make their way into the capitol here. we are a little less than an hour away from day two of arguments. garrett, i want to come be a to you. lindsey graham tweeting the not guilty vote growing after today. this is his tweet from last night. growing after today. i think most republicans found the presentation by the house managers offensive and absurd. again, that coming from the senior senator from south carolina, longtime close ally of the former president. is that reflective, garrett, of what you have been hearing from republicans on the hill?
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>> no. it's the short answer, no. it's not reflective of what we have been hearing from republicans. i think there's two ways to split this. republicans were disturbed by what they saw yesterday across the board. even folks who were in the acquittal camp for a long time, never had the full picture of what happened that day. they were essentially spent most of january 6th in an undisclosed location. they didn't see this play out the same way that even we did standing here talking about this did. for everyone that i have spoken to on the republican side, that's a good portion of the senators, were disturbed by the video they saw. what you hear from graham and from other conservative senators is that what you saw was mostly emotional and that it didn't move the legal elements of the case. there's no universe in which lindsey graham was going to vote for conviction or where ted cruz or josh hawley or others who made this argument this doesn't move the needle on a legal basis. the idea that republican senators had some significant
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group saw that video yesterday and jumped into the acquittal camp just doesn't carry any water. >> monica, is the defense going to be a political argument of what about-ism? is that essentially what lindsey graham is telling us? >> absolutely, chuck. it's really more an argument about the process. that's what they want to focus on. to this interesting question about how republican senators are feeling, we know from our own reporting that donald trump has kept in close contact with some of these people who are sitting not as actual legitimate jurors -- >> monica, stand by. stand by, sorry to interrupt. nancy pelosi talking about the impeachment hearing. let's listen in. >> the service of the capitol police force that day brings honor to our democracy.
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they are accepting this award. we must remember their sacrifice and stay vigilant against what i have said before, about what abraham lincoln said, the silent artillery of time. we will never forget. we were so moved by having the family give us the honor of honoring brian sicknick. also the smith family, we share their grief and we want to recognize the valor. also, of course, officer goodman for his valor. these are demonstrations of much more bravery throughout the capitol on that sad day. we want to honor them in the best way that we possibly can. we will continue to do so beyond a medal.
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in our hearts. so again, as the senate is dealing with its business at hand, so proud of our just overwhelmingly proud of our managers led by jamie raskin. at the same time, we are getting our work done to meet the needs of the american people to crush the virus, put children back in school, money in people's pockets, people back to work. the lives and livelihood of the american people are our responsibility. we have to call a halt to the deaths. any questions? >> will the bill you send to the senate have a $15 minimum wage in it? >> it will. yes. we are proud of that. as i said, 27 million people will get a raise.
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70% of them women. we will be sending that. >> we heard there and what speaker pelosi is talking about is they will introduce a resolution for a congressional gold medal for the capitol police officers, particularly the ones whose life was lost in this. garrett haake, it's been interesting today is how muted the leadership has been on both sides on the democratic -- both sides -- both chambers. chuck schumer and nancy pelosi, taking a back seat, letting the presentations speak for themselves. they don't want to add any spin to it. >> yeah, that's right. i think everyone is learning the lessons in some degree from the impeachment of a year ago. if the emotions are so hot based on watching the videos, what will you add by banging a political drum? i think from the impeachmentper
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what happened here on january 6th to ring in the ears of senators, not an admonition from schumer or pelosi or mcconnell saying, this is why you saw show the a certain way. let these arguments, these visuals stand on their own and try to take politics out of the decision making as much as that's possible in what is obviously a political process. >> monica alba, my apologies for interrupting you. what were you saying? >> no worries at all. what's notable is since leaving office, we know that the former president has been in touch with several of the republican senators, mostly the ones he had personal and friendly relationships with, somebody like, for example, senator lindsey graham who we can remember over the holidays came down here to south florida to golf with then president trump. he has been in touch with them. we're told it doesn't amount to a full on whip effort at this point.
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it's not like he is trying to plead necessarily with all of the senators not to vote to convict him. we do know that they are speaking, which is of note. of course, all of this is happening behind the scenes. i think that is what is so striking about the last couple of days. this is a former president who when he was impeached the first time was out on the campaign trail, holding events at the white house, tweeting more than 120 times in one day of his first impeachment trial. now, it amounts to absolutely nothing publically. he can issue a press release. he could always call a press conference at mar-a-lago not far from here. he has chosen not to do any of that. that is most likely because people around him are encouraging him not to weigh in in an effort to avoid anything that could derail what he feels confidently amounts to an acquittal. >> briefly, phil, do you see any
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change in the defense strategy on that team that was so woefully unprepared the other way? >> clearly, andrea, they will have to get their talking points in order and better prepared than the opening day. there are indications they will try to use drama and visuals to their advantage as well, having seen what the house managers have done. look for them to draw parallels to the black lives matters protests, antifa riots taking place in the summer in cities like portland and elsewhere. of course, that's not the same thing as what happened at the capitol on january 6th. nonetheless, it's an argument that some of trump's allies have been making. we can expect to hear it in the course of the trial. >> great reporting team there. thank you all. joining us now is
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congresswoman nancy mace, a new republican member of congress from the charleston, south carolina, area. thanks for coming on. >> good morning. thank you for having me on again this morning. >> you said you voted against the impeachment of president trump at the time because you thought there wasn't enough due process. i am curious after seeing everything yesterday and that presentation yesterday, would you still cast the same vote? >> i would. i will tell you, i've been in committee hearings this week. i did take a few moments to watch the video that the democrats presented. i only got halfway through. i felt physically ill. i cried when i watched it. i know firsthand that rhetoric does and can lead to violence. the days and weeks leading up to the electoral college certification vote, i had a republican threaten to shoot me on facebook. last week when i was in a tit
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for tat on twitter, had three people call my office, democrats threaten to do harm to me and my family. rhetoric does have consequences. watching that video brought me to my knees. it was very emotional to see that and what we went through. i never want to see this again in our country. >> were you disturbed by the time line where the president for six hours did not intervene, he was pressed to intervene and he kept going after the vice president who was sheltering with his family and under threat with the protesters, the mob going through -- they were a mob and rioters going through and saying, hang mike pence? they constructed a gallows outside the capitol. >> i watched the video personally. i watched the 40-minute video on youtube where you could hear them say, hang mike pence. mike pence is one of the nicest human beings on this planet. he is a -- he is very kind.
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i'm grateful he did speak up that he didn't have the authority to overturn the results of the electoral college. that took courage and bravery. they were looking for him. these were not just regular people. these were domestic terrorists. they should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. >> what about the president -- i wanted to ask about the president's role though. >> right. i mean, when you look at the rhetoric, it can lead to violence. we saw that in the days -- i have been one of the most vocal members of the party regarding the impeachment. when the house voted, it eliminated due process. if you can eliminate due process for the president, you have a precedent where you can eliminate it for anyone. that's not a good precedent for our nation. for the same reasons i voted against impeachment or to certify the electoral college because of the constitution. impeaching a president who is no longer president has never been done before in this country.
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>> congresswoman, he was impeached while he was president. >> right. this is a second impeachment trial. we have never impeached a president who is no longer president. that's never been done in our nation's history to my knowledge. >> also, you just said when you look at the rhetoric, it can lead to violence as we watch the president's legal team continue to make their way into the capitol. when you look at the rhetoric, it can lead to violence. this is rhetoric that did lead to violence. it led to deadly violence. how do you square the two? >> well, it's very difficult to. i was someone who was threatened. someone threatened to shoot me. a republican threatened to shoot me on social media in the days and weeks leading up to the vote for certifying the electoral college. last week i had a democrat threaten me with calls to my office when i was going through the twitter feud with
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congresswomanocasio-cortez. these are really trying and divisive times. i have taken issue with the rhetoric. i stated we have to be accountable for our words. it can lead to devastating action. we have seen it across the country over the last year as well. whether this happened on the capitol, it meant more to the american people. this is the capitol of the united states when this happened. it was shocking and harrowing and dangerous. none of us want to see that again in our country. >> i guess that's what comes back to, what should the consequences be? at the end of the day, should donald trump ever get the keys to the american car ever again? i guess if you answer that question in no, then, how do you not convict him? >> well, the impeachment process as i stated before is unconstitutional. impeaching a president no longer
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president has never been done in this country. >> you keep saying that. congresswoman, that's not the fact of the case. he was president of the united states when he was impeached. he is an impeached president even if he is convicted. he was president when impeached. the constitutionality question is also answered by the u.s. senate. our constitution says the senate handles all trials. it's up to them. they have said, this is constitutional. i know it's your opinion it's not. now that it is deemed constitutional and it's impeached, what do you do? >> well, prosecutors do believe that he incited an attack on the capitol. there's a criminal court where they can file charges in this instance would be another option. >> if you were a senator, could you see yourself voting to convict? how do you square lindsey graham's comments on january 6th and histrying to square this
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with what he said last night which was really dismissing the case? >> i didn't hear senator graham's comments. i was in -- >> we can play the comments. i think we have them. this is the senator from south carolina. >> we all know what happened at the capitol was terrible. i hope everybody involved that broke into the capitol goes to jail. i don't remember any of these house managers saying a damn thing when they were trying to break into my house and going after susan collins and spitting on all of us. if this is a problem for a politician to give the speech that president trump did, kamala harris was a problem because she actively engaged in bailing out rioters. >> that would seem to be what about-ism personified. you heard the comments from the senator.
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your response? >> i have only see what about-ism on twitter. i don't understand what that means. i will have to google it. he does make valid points. vice president harris helped fund a bailout fund to bail out antifa that started many riots and violence across the country. i think it's really important -- i have been one of the most vocal members of my party. i have been on msnbc, almost every network voicing my anger and my frustration and my disappointment in the emotion about what happened on january 6th. this is an issue that's facing our country. we continue to see violence in cities around the country. we saw what happened on january 6th. it's important that we recognize this is a real issue. going forward, one of the things i took away from the video that i watched that the democrats put forward was that i don't want to see us as a country put our entire political future on one
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person. we need to make our conversations, our debate, policies about all the american people, millions of people who feel like congress doesn't represent their voice. they feel like they are being left behind. that millions of people are out of work, out of jobs, their kids can't go to school, they can't get vaccinations. i want to see democrats and republicans come together and talk about the american people going forward. as a single working mom, i have huge concerns about our future and the future of our children. i want to find ways to work together. i'm trying very hard to do that now. i hope i have hope for the future. i'm not giving up hope. i hope we can get beyond this and focus on our efforts on the american people. >> congresswoman nancy mace, thank you very much. thank you for your views. we appreciate you coming on. moments from now, house impeachment managers are starting their final arguments. the new evidence we may see today and how donald trump's
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i have always had a passion for doing things with my hands. but there's no rule book for that. i don't wanna follow trends or a market. i want to do something with a purpose because the world responds. i'm marcela and i put myself out there with godaddy. welcome back to msnbc's special coverage of the second impeachment of former president don't trump. we continue to watch the house managers and those defending the president make their way into the capitol.
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we welcome in kimberly, co-host of #sistersinlaw. >> that's a good one. >> denver, let me start with you. i understand that you were listening closely as the new congresswoman from the palmetto state was making her case. what did you make of what she said? >> you know, i think some republican senators would disagree on the constitutionality of impeachment. i was reading while this was going on, i pulled up an article about ted cruz backtracking and suggesting maybe it's constitutional to impeach after a president has left office. i find it interesting that we have something so heinous that happened and we can have individuals saying, my goodness, this is awful, something needs to happen but not that. i think that's the issue that i have with all of this.
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does a president have cart blance during a lame duck session to do whatever he feels like with any sort of accountability being there to check that? i don't think the founders of the constitution had that in mind. i wasn't there when they wrote it. nancy is taking brave stances. i disagree with her on this impeachment proceeding and the constitutionality of it. we do have a tough time conserving our republic. i said that in the last segment and stand by it. >> joyce, i have been hearing a lot -- you hear a lot of the arguments defending an acquittal or defending not voting for impeachment about due process and you hear things like this isn't the way -- an average person isn't treated this way. i look at it in reverse. i think the president -- i
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actually think that there should be a higher standard here for behavior, for conduct. he should not be treated the same way you or i would be treated on some of these things. he had a duty to act better than that.hat the definition of high crimes and misdemeanors, that that is the second part there. i'm convinced that's what the founders believed. how do you make that argument today if you are the impeachment managers? >> for starters, i think you are absolutely right. we know that the president has that higher obligation because he took an oath to uphold the constitution, to take care, to faithfully execute the laws of the united states. the house managers have made that argument compellingly. i think they will pick that up today. they will talk about what the president intended to do. that, of course, is the standard, the intent standard
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that's important in a criminal case. it matters here for the house managers to establish that this wasn't just a mob misinterpreting the president. they were motivated by him and that he intended to point them towards the capitol and unleash them on it. they will do that in any number of ways. one of the most persuasive is the evidence of what the former president did after the attack was underway. we saw the time line yesterday. he did nothing. he did not -- the person who uniquely could have taken to twitter or used his voice to say, i didn't mean for you to do this, please go home, do it now, the person who could have sent the national guard over to backstop the police, he sat there, he did nothing. he was delighted. we will hear that laid out in great detail. i suspect we will hear arguments that all of this happened because president trump intended for it to happen from well ahead of the election, when he began
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the big lie, talking about the fact that if he lost and only if he lost the election would be rigged. >> kimberly, what really strikes me also is from all the rhetoric of president trump and his followers about loving the police, when you look at the video of the way the police were beaten, the vicious beating they took in trying to defend the capitol inside and outside, how do they square that with their repeated protesting that they love the police and they are the law and order party? >> they can't. plain and simple, they can't. we saw the way that the police were, as you said, viciously attacked. not only the loss of life but one police officer was left likely permanently blinded, another lost fingers. it was a shocking display as
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well as the display of bravery that was shown by officer goodman and others who were trying to protect that, to protect the capitol, to protect that building. it's just one of the many ways that we have seen republicans just going against their own previously stated principals in an effort to defend this president. one way -- marco rubio saying the criminal justice system should take care of what happened. in the last imimpeachment, they said he should have been acquitted because he didn't commit a crime. it seems there is never an end to the points to protect the presidency. i want to get back to the other point about the power of impeachment and what that means and the standard the president is held. joyce is right, the president takes an oath. the reason that they take an oath, presidents take an oath and members of congress take an oath is because you don't want to have an executive with unchecked power.
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this is specific to the senate. this is why they are here, to serve as that check. the impeachment power is not reviewable by courts. so many of what the -- what a president can do is not reviewable by courts. this is it. this is the shot that is there in place to preserve this part of democracy. if they abdicate their roles here, democracy is in peril. >> it should be noted that while you may not practice anymore, i think our viewers and listeners should know you are an attorney. correct? >> i am. i practiced as a civil litigator. >> you used terms there. i want to play something that senator lindsey graham said, donna. again, just a short time ago, speaker of the house nancy pelosi announced the capitol officers will be receiving the congressional gold medal. this is what the senator said about the folks who were in charge of securing the capitol on january 6th.
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>> it was very emotional. what were those video like? >> i can't believe that we could lose the capitol like that. i got mad. these police officers had every right to use deadly force. they should have used it. the people in charge of the capitol. >> congresswoman, when i heard that, i thought that the senator was suggesting the capitol hill police officers should have shot them all dead. is that what you heard? >> you know, i think it's actually hard to read lindsey graham anymore. i did hear that. what i also heard is, senator graham who on one hand says he got mad and that something more should have been done, on the other, he is not willing to connect the dots and to place the responsibility for what happened at the president's feet. i think it demonstrate the hip
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-- hypocrisy of the republican members that they are not able to -- on the one hand, they support the police sort of except that they know now that 140 police officers were injured, that three officers are dead. their defense of the president is, well, but, he wasn't the one who really called them to -- called that crowd to action. it's a circle that can't be squared. republicans will do what republicans do in defense of this president. the american people are really seeing straight through this. blue lives don't matter when it comes to protecting the capitol. >> denver, we talk about these precedents. you heard members of congress twisting themselves into pretzels. there's a precedent that's set
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if he is acquitted. it's going to be the precedent that political violence is okay. folks will say, you are being hyperbolic. what other precedent is being set if we don't punish this? >> you are not being hyperbolic. if disinformation can be a weapon and there's no accountability, where are we at a country? it's really this static of cognitive dissidence. the capitol siege was created by disinformation. how do you not see this? >> it's been weaponized. that's what happened. donald trump weaponized it. thank you all. that's all for this trio this morning. we will be back tomorrow morning as we will have more special coverage of the impeachment
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trial of former president donald john trump. brian williams and nicolle wallace will be picking up our coverage right after this quick break. are you ok? it's just a cold. if you have high blood pressure, a cold is not just a cold. most cold medicines may raise blood pressure. choose coricidin hbp. the brand with a heart. for powerful cold relief without raising your blood pressure. [sizzling] i may not be able to tell time, but i know what time it is. [whispering] it's grilled cheese o'clock. feeling sluggish or weighed down? it could be a sign that your digestive systemime it is. isn't working at its best. taking metamucil everyday can help.
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good afternoon once again. day three of donald trump's second impeachment trial. brian williams along with nicolle wallace for the final day of arguments by the democratic side, the house impeachment managers prosecuting their case. they are tasked with eight hours remaining, highly doubtful they will use all eight hours to prove that but for donald trump and his inciting rhetoric, there would have been in capitol insurrection on january 6th. today impeachment managers telling nbc news, we quote, we definitely have the goods and we will be bringing them home today. we are expecting additional evidence on top of the footage democrats unveiled yesterday showing vice president mike pence, his family, his staff ushered to safety. lawmakers and their teams barricaded inside their offices in the halls of the capitol. all of them closer than we knew at the time. 58 steps away in fact to what
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could have been mortal danger at the hands of a mob looking for them. republican senators after that presentation were visibly shaken. james langford, a weary senator thune. mitch mcconnell called the case, quote, very effective. a source telling nbc news he remains undecided on the question of conviction. hours of disturbing footage yesterday on the senate floor. meticulously gone through. you sat through each and every minute of it. how must republicans snou -- for give the cynicism question, how many are re-thinking their votes?
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>> my friend claire mccaskill went a long way toward resetting this. it's about our collective humanity. do we care about violence, political violence? we haven't lived with that as a reality. know they thanks to the department of homeland security that is our reality, at least through the end of april. the case that the democrats are making is a case about a president who incited violence that only he could stop. they are making it using his words and using the words of some of his closest allies. chris christie's voice pierced the sort of zombie-like trance. saying, trump needs to tell them to stop. congressman gallagher on fox news where he probably suspected trump might see him, begging the president to call it off. then as if to erase any doubt of
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the immediate impact of further inciting violence while the insurrection was underway, the houses played a tape of an insurrectionist reading trump's tweet, making clear that it had the effect of making those insurrectionists clear in their own minds that they were carrying out donald trump's will to go hunt mike pence. they were hunting nancy pelosi, mike pence. they sought to take them down because donald trump told them to. the case being most effectively with donald trump's only words, the testimony of the insurrectionists and trump allies like chris christie and congressman gallagher. >> indeed. we heard from them yesterday. garrett haake is standing by to talk with us. garrett, as we dial around the various live pictures in the
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hallways, we are looking at some of the scenes that we haven't connected to yesterday but some of them we saw from yesterday when senator romney was turned around, at the intersection outside the senate chamber. we are looking at them in peace. what kind of affect you were able to gauge that came out of yesterday's video testimony. >> i think the word chilling is probably the most accurate. for a lot of the senators, they experienced this riot in a less visceral way than the reporters and their staffs. they were in the chamber. they were rushed out. they were held in a secure location. they were there for the day and the night they were here working to finish counting the votes. for a lot of the lawmakers, they were watching the results of what happened. you see senator romney talking with reporters about his experience. they were watching this for the first time, not just the duly
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released video, but some of the other video that isn't covered as thoroughly on other networks that perhaps some of the republican lawmakers may prefer to ours. i think there was an acknowledgement of how bad things were, how things were, how close things came to be much, much worse, and i think that lays at the feet of the impeachment managers their task today. they have to capture that emotion, that feeling of the violence that happened here and how much worse it could have been and connect it in a sort of dry, legal sense to the words of the former president. and that's what we'll see today from the managers as they try to lay into the plain on their prosecution today. >> garrett, remind the folks watching. i know the house managers have eight hours. that's the math. there are reports circulating they're not going to use eight hours. remind us what's left in their quiver. what more needs to be litigated the way they litigated january 6th yesterday?
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>> reporter: a couple of things. they need to finish the time line. we spent a lot of time yesterday, the managers did, laying ut everything from the late-stage campaign rhetoric of former president trump to the speech on january 6th itself to the actions of the president up to that day. the impeachment managers now want to complete the time line and show a lock of remorse from former president trump. they want to show his actions afterwards and how he never really reckoned with what happened here. again, they have to do it in a legal sense. they have to connect the language that the former president used to the violence directly. they want to try to perhaps rewin or win more substantially the argument about constitutionality and the appropriateness of this and try to clear this bar on the language of incitement used by the president. it's not enough that the president tweeted about this and that, you know, this incredible violence happened as they showed yesterday. they have to really secure that linkage if they're going to secure a conviction or more than
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the republican votes that we think are potentially in play right now. >> we'll bring into our conversation our friends who are along with us for the day. former missouri senator claire mccaskill, former rnc chairman michael steele, both msnbc political analysts. also joining us, msnbc impeachment analyst, because you need one these days, daniel goldman. dan, let me start with you on this case that's been made so far and i think garrett's describing their objective, their legal strategy for today, completing that linkage and proving i think to the jurors and the public that without donald trump there would be no deadly insurrection. is that how you see it? >> yes. everything today will be trying to cement that link between donald trump and what happened on january 6th. you know, yesterday was essentially evidence day. we saw all the evidence or a lot of the evidence of the lead-up,
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the buildup to the january 6th riot, the riot itself, and all of the different ways that donald trump was at the center of that riot. what they will want to do today is apply that evidence to the law. so we will hear a lot more about the actual article itself, what it requires, as garrett said, what incitement is, and they will link the legal language back to the evidence. they'll sort of apply the evidence to the law. and i expect that they will take on and prebutal so to speak some of the expected defenses from the president, try to frame them in a way they can take down, so to speak. so i expect it will be a shorter day today than yesterday, but i think it will be solely focused on donald trump and the law and dismissing some of these
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potential defenses. main defense, nicole, as we discussed yesterday, is going to essentially be, we're going to throw these rioters under the bus as fast as we can and we're going to say what they did was horrible and all this but that donald trump really was tangentially related to it and was not the but-for cause of it. and they will try to heighten the legal standard that he has to have been the cause of it, even though that's not the case, not what the law says, and then they'll try to knock that down. >> claire, it seems that the evidence -- and i'm not a lawyer, but the evidence presented so far will make that very difficult for anyone with eyes and ears. what they've presented is donald trump's affinity and celebration of violence carried out before even election day, donald trump's utter devotion, for someone as chaotic and haphazard as donald trump tufshgs nailed it every single time.
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the message was if anyone but me wins it will have been a fraud and never coming off that message. they've established that. and then showing the harrowing nature of the siege, the brutality with which police officers were beaten, tortured in the words of jamie raskin, and the way that democrats and republicans were running for their lives quite literally. and then hearing chris christie and mike gallagher and other republicans say only donald trump could make this stop. donald trump needs to make this stop. it seems like they've gone a long way toward linking everything donald trump said and did even before election day to what came to pass on january 6th. >> that linkage is really clear if you are an unbiased juror. but keep in mind that republican senators are not unbiased. they're looking for political shelter to let trump off the hook. i think what daniel mentioned is really important because a good
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prosecutor always previews the defense, so the first time the jury hears the defense is out of the prosecutor's mouth, not out of the defense lawyers' mouth. so what they will do today, they will anticipate what trump's lawyers are going to do tomorrow. and i'll tell you what they're going to do tomorrow. they're going to play video of portland. i think they're going to do a what-about defense. this was bad but look what these folks were doing on the streets of portland. i think they're going to try to distract and obstruct the reality of january 6th, the brutality, the unbelievable violence and maiming and killing of police officers by trying to say, well, but look over here, look over here. we know it's apples and oranges. we know the context is that that violence, that deadly violence, was driven by the trump presidency and was allowed to go on by the failure of donald
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trump to stay stop. but that's what they're going to do. and i do think they'll spend some time this afternoon trying to tear that down, trying to point out the differences between spates of violence across our country and what happened at our nation's capitol that day at the direction of the president. >> it's such an interesting defense strategy, michael steele. i keep thinking of jamie raskin. every time i see him, as a parent i think of what he's going through as a parent, his own loss, his own darkest hour as a father. and then i keep thinking about this moment for country. a friend of mine made this linkage for me. he's carrying the country to one of its darkest hours. no matter your political affiliation, that is what it is. this is one of our darkest hours. and i think claire's emotion yesterday and senator king and senator warner's e mocs really drove that home for me. this was an attack on the
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congress directed, incited, and funded -- eric swalwell had the evidence about how his campaign paid more than $50 million, funded by donald trump. what do we do about it? what kind of country are we? do we still care? >> that takes me right to i think one of the more searing moments yesterday, because it speaks to everything that we're talking about, not just the defense by the trump team but the important question that you just asked. and that was the videotape that jamie raskin played, showing the comments of capitol police, two african-american officers talking to each other and shared the idea, is this america? what the hell is going on? is this who we are? and i think to the point about the defense, yeah, i think claire is right, they're going to put on the what-about as a
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defense, because that's all they've got. but you know why they're doing it? they're not doing it for us, folks. they're doing it for that base. they're giving those senators the reason to vote acquittal because then they've connected that dot. that's the most important dot here. it's not a dot for us in america to help us heal and to help us find resolution from the pain of january 6th. this is about giving the platform and the comfort to republican senators who want to shirk and cheat their responsibility at this hour. and as americans, we need to take note of that and remember that, because they're not caring about the pain that you just expressed, nicole. they're caring about the pain of, oh, gee, i may get primaried or i may get a nasty tweet or trump may not invite me down to mar-a-lago to play golf with him again, lindsey graham. so the reality is we have to
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reconcile this pain, we have to take it on ourselves, and those words, those haunting words, what those officers said, wtf? is this america? i'm sick of this you know what. and that's where we're left. >> michael steele, thank you. as everyone can see, they have cranked on the camera in the senate chamber. pat leahy, who presides as senior most democrat, president pro tem of the senate, that also makes him third in line to the u.s. presidency behind vice president and speaker of the house. he's waiting for the high sign to take the chair, which he's doing now. we've been watching senators come out of the democratic cloak room and there's our gavel. >> dr. barry black will lead the senate in prayer.


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