tv All In With Chris Hayes MSNBC February 12, 2021 12:00am-1:00am PST
broadcast for this thursday night, with our thanks for being here with us. on behalf of all my colleagues at the networks of nbc news, good night. >> tonight on "all-in." >> is there any political leader in this room who believes that if he is ever allowed by the senate to get back into the oval office, donald trump would stop inciting violence to get his way? >> day three and the prosecution rests. >> would you bet the lives of more police officers on that? would you bet the safety of your family on that? would you bet the future of your democracy on that? >> tonight, how house managers used the attack on police and trump's betrayal of mike pence to drive home their case. then why an admission from tommy
tuberville could come back to haunt the defense, and would it matter to a jury who recognize the danger of donald trump? >> donald needs to realize and take responsibility for the fact that some of the rhetoric he has used could potentially be contributing to this environment. >> "all-in" starts right now. good evening from new york. i'm chris hayes, and the prosecution has rested in the second impeachment trial of former president donald j. trump. we're going to talk about that in just a second. but there is also a big whoa if true announcement from the white house on vaccines tonight. joe biden, senior adviser on covid response will be here in just a little while to explain their new accelerated timetable to vaccinate everyone in the united states. but as the biden administration is keeping their heads down and focusing on the task at hand, the senate was left to clean up from the carnage left by the last administration. on the second and final day of their presentation, the house impeachment managers methodically stitched together evidence that donald trump knew
his words were likely to result in violence, and that as that violence erupted, he did not lift a finger to stop it. the evidence presented today was less violent and nerve-racking than what we saw yesterday. in other ways it was just as shocking. impeachment manager diana laid out how the relationship between trump and the insurrectionists work. >> there are statements before, during and after the attack made clear the attack was done for donald trump, at his instructions, and to fulfill his wishes. donald trump had sent them there. they truly believed that the whole intrusion was at the president's orders, and we know that because they said so. many of them actually posed for pictures, bragging about it on social media, and they tagged mr. trump in tweets. leading up to the attack, the insurrectionists said they were coming to d.c. for president
trump. he invited them with clear instructions for a specific time and place, and with clear orders. stop the fight -- stop the certification in congress by any means necessary. >> if you have any doubts, look at some of the footage the manager used to prove the rioters heard what trump said and were prepared to act on it. >> we will stop the steal. >> stop the steal. stop the steal. stop the steal. stop the steal. >> stop the steal. stop the steal. stop the steal. >> we're going to walk down, any one you want, but i think right here to the capitol. >> take the capitol. >> take the capitol. >> take the capitol. >> take the capitol. >> take the capitol right now. >> we fight like hell, and if you don't fight like hell, you're not going to have a country any more.
[ chanting ] >> fight for trump. >> we were invited here. >> they swore an oath. >> we were invited by the president of the united states! >> impeachment managers also wanted to make it clear that they were not the only ones who saw this connection. manager ted lieu pointed out those who were closest to trump saw the same thing. >> long-standing republicans also made clear that president trump incited this insurrection and it went against our democracy. the president's former secretary of defense, james mattis, declared that "today's violent assault on our capitol, an
effort to subjugate american democracy by rule was fomented by donald trump. former chief of staff kelly spoke on this as well. i'd like to play an audio clip of what he said. >> what happened on capitol hill yesterday is a direct result of his poisoning the minds of people with the lies and the frauds. >> what happened on capitol hill was a result of president trump poisoning the people's minds with lies and the fraud. the impeachment manager made it clear there was no accident by his refusal to condemn the attack, condemn 9 attackers and send them home. they played a clip, republicans including trump's sycophants, chris christie, begging trump to call off his mob. >> i could not be sadder and more disappointed with the way our country looks at this very moment. people are getting hurt. anyone involved in this, if you're hearing me, hear me very
loud and clear, this is not the american way. >> mr. president, you have got to stop this. you are the only person who can call this off. call it off. >> he pretty simple. the president caused this protest to occur. he's the only one who can make it stop. what the president said is not good enough. the president has to come out and tell his supporters to leave the capitol grounds. and allow the congress to do their business peacefully. and anything short of that is an abrogation of his responsibility. >> a guy who knows how to twaet aggressively on twitter puts out one of the saddest days in american history. >> nobody has given an exonerated reason why trump sad back as people in body armour and maga hats and chanted trump,
trump, trump ran to the capitol. neguse provided an apt analogy of how it all played out. >> standing in the middle of that explosive situation, in that powder keg that he had created over the course of months, before a crowd filled with people that were poised for violence at his signal, he struck a match, and he aimed it straight at this building. at us. >> he struck a match and he aimed it at the capitol. lead impeachment manager jamie raskin made the vital point the biggest risk is not letting trump get away with incitement and insurrection. it is giving donald trump the opportunity to do it again. >> what makes you think the nightmare with donald trump and his law making and violent mobs
is over? if we let him get away with it, and then it comes to your state capitol or comes back here again, what are we going to say? these prior acts of incitement cast a harsh light on trump's obvious intent -- obvious intent, his unavoidable knowledge of the consequence of his incitement, the unavoidable knowledge of the consequence of his incitement and the clear foreseeability of the violent harm that he unleashed on our people and our republic. >> in the end, the test here really is not about the prosecution who laid a clear overwhelming case against the president. we will hear from the defense tomorrow. and i'll just say for myself as someone who has been spending a lot of time looking at this and considering the evidence, it's not whether trump did or didn't do it. it's almost comical to establish trump is the person who sent the people marauded with trump hats we're doing this for trump.
the task is with the republican senate and whether they will do the right thing or not. debbi stabenau was in the chamber watching the house presentation. she joins me now. what was your take away from the presentation of the house managers today, senator? >> chris, it's great to be with you again. first, i have to say that the house managers were extraordinary. every single one of them. and they built the case that was very clear. january 6th was not a one-off, this is something that was built for months. this president tried everything he could to stop the election. and when he couldn't do it through the courts or he couldn't do it peacefully, he decided to rev up all his violent supporters. and one of the things that just struck me as they moved through this is the fact that, you know, he did not try to stop it. it took until 5:00 p.m. for the
national guard to be on-site at the capitol -- we've seen what our brave capitol police were going through for the four hours before that. it was horrible. loss of life, injury, permanent injury for people. and as well as what we were having to go through and all of the damage and so on. so this is somebody who has no problem, in all caps tweeting, stop the steal. he didn't once in all caps tweet "stop the violence." that came through loud and clear. >> the managers took time through the line of argument which is you state, i found it pretty persuasive, that the president's incitement against the governor of your state gretchen whitmer to liberate the state of michigan, that was a trial run. i want to play a little of house
manager jamie raskin making that statement. take a listen. >> trump knew exactly what he was doing in inciting the january 6th mob. exactly. he had just seen how easily his words and actions inspired violence in michigan. he sent a clear message to his supporters. he encouraged planning and conspiracies to take over capitol buildings and threaten public officials who refused to bow down to his political will. >> what do you think about that connection, the idea that the michigan incitement was a kind of trial run? >> i think that makes sense. and first i have to say, chris, living in michigan my whole life, the majority of people in michigan are horrified by all of what has happened at our own capitol and to our governor as well as all of the other violence. but, you know, i wouldn't be surprised if donald trump was quite pleased with himself. he tries out efforts to be able to get his supporters to commit
violent acts, and then he sees that, oh, gosh, look, this works. and in his mind, he's powerful because he can get people to hurt other people or kill other people in his name. i think michigan was, as well as other states, a trial run to see whether or not he could do this. and unfortunately he was able to bring together people that were very dangerous. >> you're a member of a jury here, right? you're trying this case. you're listening to it be tried. today there was reporting that the president's lawyer and a number of republican senators, including lindsey graham and ted cruz, that they had a meeting with the president's lawyers together. i wonder if you think that's proper and your reaction to that. >> no, it's not proper. and i have to tell you that
while we have supported whatever the house managers needed in time and so on, but we've not sat down with them. that is, of course, not appropriate to do. now, i will say this is an unusual kind of process and trial because we were all there, you know. we were all not only witnesses, but victims. so it does create a difference in terms of how the trial should go forward. but the reality is that the house managers are moving forward with what they believe, with integrity and incredible skill, and that is not something that we have been working with them on. >> senator debbi stabinau from michigan, thank you for making time with us tonight. >> you're welcome. >> i want to bring in acting solicitor general, assistant attorney general under bill clinton. he's been following this closely.
we now have the entirety of the opening statements from the prosecution here. what did you think of it? >> well, i think it made an overwhelming case, so overwhelming, in fact, that i think one of the risks is that when you listen to the attorneys for trump, they're going to pick out particular points that are irrelevant to the overwhelming case, you know. one of the questions judges ask is, counsel, i agree with you on this particular point, does that mean you win? and that will be a good question to ask the trump lawyers because they will try to point out that other politicians have used words like "fight." they'll try to argue that under brandenburg against ohio, the president's words were protected speech. if he were a private individual, all of which is irrelevant to the fact of whether on the multiplicity of counts, he engaged in performances which should mean he is no longer eligible to hold offices of
trust or profit in the united states. >> obviously this is not a trial like a normal criminal trial. it's a separate constitutional proceeding. where are you sitting as a senator and a juror, you are approaching this with an open mind, fair minded, what threshold are you looking for in a sort of legal constitutional sense for yourself of what is necessary for a conviction? >> right, you're looking for very serious matters that are not necessarily technically criminal, but have the same seriousness that criminal charges have. you're looking at the nature of the -- in this case, the president of the united states. you're looking for some evidence that is clear and convincing that he engaged in current -- in certain acts. and on that you have some that are indisputable. for example, i think as senator stabinau mentioned, for hours the commander in chief sat 16
blocks away from assault on men, women and children who were in the capitol building, and interference with clear constitutional function and he did nothing that we know of. he didn't assemble a group in the situation room to protect and defend this. he forfeited his right to hold office which is indisputable. >> they have done -- i think they have done a very effective job of focusing on that part of it. i thought also today was interesting just the reliance -- their reliance on republican voices, on republican testimony, by people who are supporters of the president like kevin mccarthy or chris christie, friends of the president, big trump fans. i mean, the fact that all of them come to this conclusion that only you can call off the mob, which sort of logically entails that you summoned them. and that, i thought, was a very effective point because it was a
matter of total consensus across the partisan ideological divide that that was true in the moment. >> you know, one place that some senators will attempt to hide is to reraise the issue whether a president who has been indicted while in office, whether the senate somehow turns into a pumpkin at noon on january 20th and can't complete the process and deal with disqualification. i think that that matter has been resolved. >> yes. >> as the manager pointed out. this is an area that is governed by senatorial precedent to large measure because the courts don't intervene. we have an 18th century precedent, a 19th century precedent that you can try a president who has left office or another office holder, and now we have a 21st century president, 66-44 and they aren't in all measure to consider themselves bound by what we call the law of the case. this has been resolved. and i think they really need to vote up or down on whether this
is the kind of conduct that one should engage in and still be eligible to hold honor, trust and profit in the future. >> yeah, this is a really important point, just to reiterate what you're saying there, professor, that it is the case that the senate has rendered its verdict on the constitutionality of this trial whether he can be tried. it has rendered it yes. that point, that constitutional point is no longer active and is no longer live. it has been decided by the body that sees him. the votes they have, they're going to try to hide behind that. no, you vote on the merits now. we passed that because the body has rendered its constitutional judgment. it is a very important point and one to press as they try to hide behind that. walter dellinger, thank you so much. >> you're welcome, chris. >> do senators care about the betrayal of his own vice-president to do anything about it? house managers drive it home with olivia troy after this. liv. can it help with snoring? i've never heard snoring... exactly.
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he attacked him more. he singled him out by name. >> the impeachment managers kept driving home throughout the trial how close vice-president mike pence came to the president's lynch mob, hunting him for the sin of doing his constitutional duty. yesterday they revealed new video of pence and his family being evacuated down a staircase as the rioters were closing in. this was just minutes after the secret service pulled pence off the senate floor where he had been presiding over that electoral vote count. and president trump it appears would have known in real-time what was happening with the vice-president because around that very moment, he was on the phone with alabama senator tommy tuberville who revealed to reporters last night that he told trump directly that pence was being evacuated. >> well, i mean, i don't know if you've ever talked to president trump, you don't get many words in. he didn't get a chance to say a whole lot. i said, mr. president, they just
took the vice-president out. i've got to go. >> the vice-president gets escorted out. tommy tuberville in thinks recollection calls him, donald trump calls him. they just took the vice-president out. i've got to go. after that call, after tommy tuberville said they just took the vice-president out of the senate chamber, after president trump was warned according to tommy tuberville pence had been evacuated for his own safety, after that the mob was chanting "hang mike pence" spreading out across the capitol, it was after that trump tweeted, quote, mike pence didn't have the courage to do what should have been done by illegally stopping the certification of the election. i'm joined now by former aide to vice-president pence on counterterrorism and terrorism, also worked on the coronavirus task force for the handling of the pandemic. the house managers have focused on mike pence's role in all this as someone who worked for him. you still have a lot of admiration and respect and affection for him. i wonder how it hits you.
>> well, it was upsetting. it was upsetting watching it develop that day. i was, you know, i saw the statement by mike pence, what he put out, saying it was his duty to support and uphold the constitution and that's what he was going to do. he pushed that out right before he gets to the motorcade. i was watching the time line of everything directly that day. i remember they announced he was getting into the motorcade and i'm watching trump at the rally continuing to double down and attack mike pence. and i'm thinking to myself, he's completely setting him up. he is setting him -- sending him in to slaughter basically is the way it looked to me. and this is before any of these events developed. and so then we see the tweet and the doubling down language, and to see the footage of watching the vice-president at the time being escorted out with his family, with his daughter and watching the secret service guide him, i knew well when i
was working for mike pence with his hand on his back, you don't see that. you don't see that happen every day. you don't see secret service touching the vice-president. you're clearly in a h.e.r. toy you're clearly in a hurry to get him out of there. to see he doubles down is everything. it's just appalling. >> setting him up is key. i have to say in my view, no one deserves to be stalked by a mob. certainly not mike pence, but mike pence knew what he was getting into with donald trump. he knew he was a snake when he took him, he was loyal to him to the very end. but it's remarkable to me other republicans don't think, there's a lesson for me. john cornyn doing the mariah carey of i don't know her, about mike pence. take a listen. >> do you know if any senate republicans have checked in with vice-president pence to see how he's doing? >> say that again.
>> has anyone checked in with pence to see how he's doing? >> i haven't talked to him. i heard he moved back to indiana. >> like oh, mike pence, who is he? it just seems to me so obvious, and this is clearly the point of the house impeachment manager, you're the next mike pence, everybody, all you republicans, clearly. >> well, this is something that i think republicans know fairly well. they've seen this play out repeatedly throughout the trump administration, right. this isn't the first time that trump has thrown someone under the bus that served under him or for him. so you're right, doubly more upsetting is you have a group of republicans who have spent a lot of time with mike pence, right. he was the president of the senate. they had negotiated deals with him. they would call him. they talk to him all the time. this is someone who has been in the republican establishment for way longer than donald trump, years before. and they don't care.
they don't care that his life is put at risk. and so americans should be watching. the voters should be watching. during this impeachment trial. because any senate republican who doesn't vote to convict when the evidence is so clear, cut and dry, is complicit in this entire seeing and they're saying to you, it doesn't matter. mike pence did his duty. he upheld the contusion. we're going to double down and we only care solely about ourselves. we don't care about the future of the country. we don't care about taking a stand against trump. we don't care about taking a stand because we need to tell the voters out there the truth about what happened. and so that is really what they're saying. they're going to vote, and if they vote to acquit him, i don't know what that says for these republican enablers going forward. i think they should be held accountable. if not by resigning, the voters need to hold these people
accountable. this should never happen again. >> olivia troy, thank you so much for your time tonight. i have much more on the trial. what to expect when trump's defense takes center stage tomorrow. plus an announcement from the white house that would qualify as genuinely amazing news about when you and your loved ones can get vaccinated. joe biden senior adviser andy slavitt is going to be here to explain next. o be here to explain next
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just this afternoon we signed the final contracts for 100 million more moderna and 100 million more pfizer vaccines. we're also able to move up the delivery dates with an additional 200 million vaccines to the end of july, faster than we expected. >> president joe biden announcing what appears to be great news today. we will have enough doses to vaccinate 300 million americans by the end of july, moving up
the time line for getting back to something like normal. andy slavitt is white house senior adviser for the coronavirus response and he joins me now. all right, andy. so, explain what this means. these are purchase agreements to ensure we have sufficient supply, is that right? >> that's right. i think one of the first things we learned when we got here was we hadn't secured enough vaccines for every american. so it was one of the first things the president instructed us to get out and do. and i think the good news is that we -- he made that instruction, we had i think discussed we would probably be able to make those purchases to have enough vaccines for all adult americans by the end of the summer. and today's news is not only that we have secured those purchases, but that we have been able to accelerate the time frame. and we believe we'll have enough vaccines for every american sometime in july. >> okay. so then the question becomes, you secured them. the time line is dependent on
supply, right? so these are not -- i'm imagining there's not 300 million -- this does not exist now, right? they have to be produced, and then they have to be delivered. how confident are we in the first part of that, the production part? like, does that capacity -- is that going to happen? >> yep, we're getting more and more confident every day that we will have i think probably the equivalent of enough vaccines for 200 million americans by the end of may, 300 millions by the end of july. this counts the moderna and pfizer vaccines. we're not counting whatever may happen with johnson & johnson. we're not yet through the fda. we're going to continue to look for every opportunity to accelerate that time frame. once those vaccines are produced, they have to get to the places around the country where they will be. that may take a week or so, we'll have to get their appointments. so we really are targeting at this point being able to get this done inside of the summer
for all americans. >> johnson & johnson, as you note, has not been approved by the fda yet, but that would be on top of that and there would be, i guess, additional purchase agreements. today was the second time ever according to bloomberg, vaccine tracker of 2 million vaccines administered today. we're now up to 1.6 million a day. peter hotez and others have said we really should be shooting for 3 million a day, 3 million shots a day, 3 million doses. it's ambitious, but is that something that you think is realistic? is that what you're thinking about? >> we don't really know. i mean, we do know that the country can give out 3 million flu shots a day. >> right. >> so if we fail, we want to be able to distribute as many vaccines as possible a day. the things that i think we want to make sure we have and we've been working on, we've been working to secure more vaccinators. so retired doctors and nurses can give out vaccines.
we'll have upwards of 10,000 troops out there delivering vaccines. we have secured more sites. we're talking about retail pharmacy program which launched today, very exciting. community health centers, and we're standing up 100 federally funded community -- i'm sorry, community vaccination sites. so between all of this activity, we are hoping to drive this much, much higher. when we got here, we were, i think the last week of the trump administration, we were doing about 900,000. now we're doing about 1.6 million. you know, all day long we're working on opportunities big and small. >> yeah. >> to increase that number week on week. >> finally, if there is one thing quickly you can change with a magic wand with one part in the links of these chains to drive up vaccines, what would it be? >> it would actually be making sure that the vaccines that get into low-income communities, communities of color actually get to the people who they're
intended to serve, because this is in some respects an occupational disease. it affects people that are working on the front lines and working -- essential workers and their families. these are largely people of color. and what we're seeing too much of as we are discovering, is that people are coming into those communities who don't live there, who are more well off and have transportation and may have access to a computer and can get access to a schedule, and they're getting access to some of those vaccines. for me it's as much about making sure we are equitably vaccinating this country, not just vaccinating more people which we're set up to do more and more. >> thank you for an encouraging day. keep our fingers crossed and keep holding you to account. thank you. >> thank you, chris. >> ahead, some of the jurors who will most likely acquit the president in his trial were the first people to warn that literally this kind of thing would happen. want to talk about that coming up. t coming up
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january 6th was a culmination of the president's actions, not an aberration from them. the insurrection was the most violent and dangerous episode so far in donald trump's continuing pattern and practice of inciting violence. >> today impeachment managers reminded the senate that trump has been encouraging violence from his supporters from the very start. all the way back when he was running for president in his campaign rallies beginning in 2015, and at the time many of the loudest warnings about that violence he was inciting and encouraging came from some of the very same republican senators who now want us all to move on from january 6th. >> any campaign responsibility starts at the top. any candidate is responsible for the culture of the campaign. and when you have a campaign
that disrespects the voters, when you have a campaign that affirmatively encourages violence, you create an environment that only encourages this sort of nasty -- >> you have a candidate in donald trump who clearly has used language that appeals to anger and in some instances has said to the crowd, let's beat this person up, let's do this, let's do that. there is only one presidential candidate that has violence at their events. i do think donald needs to realize and take responsibility for the fact some of the rhetoric he has used could potentially be contributing to this environment. >> as nbc news policy editor noted after the insurrection last month, republicans warned that this would come, this day would come. then they forgot. he joins me now along with former democratic congresswoman donna edwards. benji, you covered that primary. there were a few moments during that 2016 campaign where there were specific threats of, a,
stopping the steal, and the spectre of some kind of trump mob violence. tell us about that. >> well, chris, trump had so many concerns about violence in his rhetoric throughout the campaign you almost had to separate them into different buckets, right? there was violence against protesters. there was a spectre of violence against perhaps disfavored ethnic groups or religious minorities. but then there was this extremely specific concern that some of the republicans you were showing very specifically called out, which was a scenario in which trump would refuse to concede an election. he would saying it was rigged based on conspiracy theories, and his supporters would riot or engage in violence or intimidation against election officials in charge of carrying out that election. cruz went on after that clip you showed to accuse trump of a pattern of inciting violence. what was going on at the time trump was specifically warning that his supporters would riot
if he did not win the republican nomination. at the time there was a plausible scenario where he might win a plurality of delegates but lose at the convention based on rules. trump, similar to some of his rhetoric with the 1/6 happened, these the kinds of things that happen when it is denied. he wouldn't necessarily lead a riot, but it would be an inevitable consequence. looking back at my old coverage, i asked the trump campaign to clarify what he would do in the event his supporters rioted to prevent an election loss at the republican convention. the exact kind of scenario we are talking about in the impeachment trial today. that's how specific the concern was. i asked them, what step would he take if such a riot were to start to tamp it down? we are now feverishly trying to other reconstruct the time line when that scenario came to pass. the same thing happened in the general election where after
trump won the nomination, thus diffusing the fear, he spread conspiracy theories the election would be rigged. he won the election and concern dissipated about violence. they were always following throughout, in the three elections he ran, the primary 2016, general election 2016, and general election 2020. same playbook, conspiracy theories about how the election was rigged, fears his supporters might engage in violence, and questions about what role he is playing, heating them up and whether he will take steps to cool them down if things get out of hand. >> that's so well laid out, benji. donna, i thought that impeachment managers did a good job that of today, too. and ted lieu, i think it was ted lieu said i'm not worried he's going to run again and win, i'm worried he's going to run again and lose. this will happen if he loses because we now know this is what happens. >> well, i actually think today the impeachment managers were
very effective of not just looking at what happened on january 6th, but really reaching back into 2015 and 2016, looking at the president's rhetoric, really directly from a stage, you know, calling for his supporters to do violence to people who were in the audience. and so i thought it was actually a very effective way of indicating how committed the president was to this strategy of encouraging his supporters to do violence, and how it was an expectation that his rhetoric would, in fact, lead to that because it had led to violence in the past. and i think that that was important to kind of connect the dots from the president's repeated behavior and repeated rhetoric, and how that played out on january 6. >> i have to quickly read this marco rubio quote from 2016 after violence at the chicago rally.
this is rubio. most countries around the world are failures because they deposit their hopes in a person. person says, put me in power and i will make the country better. but mark my words, he added, his voice growing sharper. there will be prominent people in american politics who will spend years explaining to people how they fell into this. and now, benji, marco rubio is one of them. >> i believe i was there when he said that quote, in fact. i mean, i was following marco rubio ruined a lot in the final days of the campaign. he was emotional about this. i was moved talking to rubio, seeing his events, especially in his home state of florida. many of the people at the events were like rubio, people whose parents or they themselves fled countries where there was authoritarian violence and the threat of elections being overturned. this was very personal for him and for people at his rallies who supported him. and rubio hasn't exactly renounced his former views.
he sort of just sulked on the side lines. he's rarely called trump out by name, he's generally talked about the threat of violence. he's calling the impeachment a waste of time. it's not a priority for him the way it was then. >> and, donna, your point about the past is pointing out the future. jamie raskin says, are you willing to roll the dice again on this? that to me is what this all adds up to. what are you all think is going to happen if he runs again? >> well, i mean, i think -- i think for them to make the case for him not to be able to run for office again, to be prohibited, that they have to actually give the senators to the extent they're willing to hear it a reason to know that his past behavior is actually predictive of the future. >> exactly. and i think it clearly is. benji and donna, thank you for making time tonight. appreciate it. next, he is the attorney who stopped donald trump from stealing the election in the courts.
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after their disastrous opening day on tuesday, donald trump's legal team has been scrambling to make good. defense attorney david schoen was on trump tv this afternoon even as the trial was going on promising to deliver when they make their case tomorrow. they are expected to claim trump's words followed the first amendment, to keep raising the question of constitutionality even though the senate already settled that matter on tuesday. here with me now, a man who has taken on trump's legal teams all across the country since election day, beating the former president in court over and over again on behalf of the country. you squared off with lawyers for the former president. what have you learned from that, what do you anticipate tomorrow?
>> well, so what we've learned is that lawyers represent the president oftentimes don't tell the entire truth. in fact, they don't tell much of the truth at all. he has a tendency to choose lawyers who tell -- who say what he wants them to say as opposed to making the most effective argument. so i suspect just as we didn't see the best lawyering that the well of the senate has ever seen a couple days ago, we'll see more of the same. >> there is reporting they'll focus on the constitution. it's important to hit this home. this is not a court, but if it were a court and, say, you had a motion to dismiss, motion for summary judgment and failed on that, after that happens, you don't get to go back and keep working on the motion to dismiss, motion for summary judgment. that ship sailed. that's done. it seems like they're going to just keep banging on about that. >> yeah, i mean not unless you want to get sanctioned, right.
unless you want the judge to read you the riot act. first of all, the jurisdictional argument they made is borderline frivolous to begin with. i mean, you don't have to take that from me. you can take that from the conservative federal society types who themselves said jurisdictional argument is frivolous. but to then make that argument after the senate has already ruled on it is beyond frivolous. it's insulting. and i assume the reason why they're going to do this is two things. number one, they don't have anything else to say. >> right. >> and number two, they figure that the republican senators are going to leave their courage at the door and are going to, you know, are going to support them anyway. >> yeah, and we should say jamie raskin, i thought, had a good -- he made this point it's over. take a quick listen. >> it has already been decided by the senate on tuesday that the senate has constitutional
jurisdiction over this impeachment case brought to you by the united states house of representatives. so we've put that jurisdictional constitutional issue to bed. it is over. >> so there is the jurisdictional thing they'll keep banging on. they'll do a lot of what aboutism. the only legitimate possible defense to me, it seems, is just say, like, he didn't realize what he was doing and how bad it was. he was out there, you know, he just didn't know. it seems like the only thin plausible defense they could come up with. >> yeah, look, i don't think it's that plausible, though. he did know. donald trump knew exactly what he was doing. >> right. >> donald trump was getting exactly what he wants. we focused a lot in the last week on the lies that he propagated about whether there was fraud in the election and court after court found there wasn't. but there was a big, huge lie at the end which was that somehow he, donald trump, was going to
prevent the certification of the election in the congress because mike pence was going to do some magical war dance, and not certify. and that lie led to the death of individuals on january 6. and so they can say whatever they want, but that is just the cold truth. >> and that point, we hit this a bit yesterday, that that lie, that specific idea that mike pence is the fulcrum upon which all depends is a donald trump original, right? it's not -- that's not -- that's him. there's no one else running around saying, it comes down to mike pence. >> that's exactly right. and that's why, chris, that's the biggest lie of all. it's the most important and the most damning for the president. because only he was propagating that lie, and that's the lie that led to the storming of the capitol. that's the lie that led to mike pence having to flee the capitol while people were chanting for his death and while they were
hanging nooses outside. and that's on donald trump 100%. >> marc elias who has been doing a lot of lawyering on the other side of trump legal teams and been watching this trial as well. thank you so much for talking to us tonight. >> thanks much for talking with us. >> thanks for having me, chris. >> that's it for us and "all in" this wednesday evening. "the rachel maddow show" starts right now. good evening, rachel. >> good evening, chris. much appreciated. and thanks to you at home for joining us this hour. i will tell you right now, our first guest that we are going to have tonight is somebody who you are going to want to see. we've got an interview tonight with somebody who is in absolutely unique status as a national newsmaker tonight. i will explain who she is and you will want to see this interview coming up in our next segment. but it's been a remarkable news day today. president biden announced today that the u.s. government has found a way to purchase another 200 million doses of coronavirus vaccine. this is moderna and pfizer,