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tv   The Reid Out  MSNBC  February 23, 2021 4:00pm-5:00pm PST

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hospitalization after that car crash. we'll continue to keep that coverage going for you tonight on msnbc. thanks for watching "the beat." i'll be back tomorrow 6:00 p.m. eastern. "the reid out" with joy reid is up next. good evening. we are following several major stories tonight. in a moment, the latest from a dramatic day on capitol hill where lawmakers try to untangle the chain of events that resulted in the worst security breach in more than two centuries. we begin with what we're learning about the condition of golf icon, tiger woods, who was seriously injured after his suv went off the road and rolled down a hillside in california. the los angeles county sheriff's department wrapped a briefing with reporters where we learned that woods remains in serious condition with injuries to both legs.
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i'm joined by nbc news correspondent steve patterson at harbor ucla medical center where woods was taken earlier today. steve? >> reporter: that news conference gives you a better picture of what was happening on scene when woods was treat bid first responders. we're being told woods was conscious, talking to first responders. when one sheriff's deputy asked him his name he replied tiger. these were extremely serious injuries, taken to the hospital in serious but stable condition and injuries to the legs. we did hear from his manager that he was taken to the hospital, sent to surgery. should say, though, this is not the closest hospital to that accident location. according to authorities in that press conference, there was another hospital nearby that was a little bit closer. this hospital, about 20, 25 minutes by ambulance or so from
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the actual crash scene accident. if he had been in a more serious situation, a life-threatening situation, one of the deputies there, one of the officials at that press conference said he would have likely been taken to a closer hospital. again, he was alert, conscious, talking to first responders on scene. they also say there was no sign of impairment from tiger woods on scene. by all the on-scene testing they did in communications with tiger woods and taking him from the scene to the hospital, that they had no indication that there was any sign of impairment from tiger woods. obviously, a lot of this will be figured out as the investigation continues. as his status becomes more apparent as he leaves surgery or poecht-op surgery as they're working on his legs. as we know right now, tiger woods involved in that single-car accident, by himself, extremely injured on his lower legs or extremities overall, taken into surgery in stable but
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serious condition, treated, hospitalized. again, getting treatment for those injuries sustained. i should say one more thing. they talked about the area of l.a. county where that accident occurred. it was on a steep incline. i'm sure you've seen images of the scene. that incline can catch people off guard, according to authorities. that area infamous for s-curve turns, for those hairpin turns and steep inclines that come out of nowhere. if you've driven in l.a. county those hillsides can catch people off guard. they say they've had several accidents in that area. they're not sure if that's attributed to the accident here. that, along with other factors they're investigating as we speak. joy? >> all right. nbc's steve patterson, thank you very much. much appreciated. let's turn to the other big story today. for the first time since january 6th, we heard from the former top security officials responsible for the u.s. capitol, as well as the acting chief of the d.c. police.
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together, they painted a devastating portrait of disarray, poor communication, bad intelligence all culminating with their forces being overwhelmed by the maga insurrectionist mob. capitol police chief steven sund. >> the events i witnessed january 6th was the worst attack on law enforcement and our democracy that i've seen in my sbar career. these criminals came prepared for war. >> let's be clear. capitol police is unlike any policing agency in america. with 2,300 sworn officers and employees and an approximate budget of more than $400 million, they have one prime directive. they are responsible for securing the capitol complex and answer only to congress. to say they were not prepared to do their one job is an inconceivable scandal.
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you heard sund say that they came to wage war. sund said he didn't learn of the fbi report the night before warning of the attack. >> in the last 24 hours i was informed by the department that they had received that report. >> how could you not get that vital intelligence on the eve of what's going to be a major event? >> thank you, sir. i know that's something that's going to be looked at. that information would have been helpful to be aware of. >> the hearing also cast a damning light on the department of defense. chief of d.c.'s metropolitan police says he was stunned by the pentagon's hesitation to dispatch the national guard. >> i was stunned that, you know, i have officers that were out there, literally fighting for their lives. we're kind of going through what seemed like an exercise to really check the boxes and there
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was not an immediate response. >> this hearing was unusual for another reason. some of the people asking the questions have a lot of explaining to do about their own roles that day. senators ted cruz, josh "fist in the air" hawley and ron johnson, three of the most pernicious players who incited the attack are now playing judge and jury. johnson tried to defend the maga mob, suggesting it's all one big misunderstanding. to make that absurd case he quoted the firsthand account from a member of that mob. someone who also happens to work for a right-wing think tank and claims trump supporters were lured by provocateurs to attack the capitol. >> he said the mood of the crowd was positive, festive. many with small children, elderly, overweight or tired and frail, traits not particularly attributed to the riot-prone. some obviously didn't fit in. he describes four different
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types of people. plain clothesed militants, fake trump protesters and discipline uniformed. these are the people that probably planned this. >> senator johnson went on to claim that nobody saw this attack coming. i guess he missed all the times the former president called on his supporters to join him in washington on january 6th to, quote, stop the steal and promised it will be wild. i guess he also missed the portions of the impeachment hearing when they showcased the gruesome footage of the violent trump-supporting attackers that day. would you expect anything else from the guy who led literally said the deadly salt on the capitol didn't seem like an armed insurrection to him? i want to turn to benny thompson, and elizabeth newman, threat prevention and security policy in the department of homeland security. first, congressman thompson,
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there are a few things that were absurd about what we heard today, at least from the questioners. let's start with ron johnson. the idea that, in his mind, the attackers were not supporters of donald trump and if they seemed to be, they were pretending to be supporters of donald trump, that they were agent provocateurs, who i assume he anticipates was antifa, who were not there. and the people who stormed the capitol were frail, overweight and had their children with them. i didn't see any of that in the footage i saw. you are the chair of the homeland security committee in the house. what do you make of ron johnson's assessment? >> well, his assessment is absolutely wrong. joy, everyone saw who broke into the capitol. the insurrectionists were prepared to do everything possible to harm members of
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congress, capitol police, everyone. the intelligence that was provided even talked about the persons who were coming. if you look at how they were dressed, everything says they came there to do harm. they didn't come there to observe the counting of the votes. they came there to stop the steal. and so that's what we saw. there's no evidence whatsoever in the files that i have reviewed, my committee has reviewed that says anything senator johnson says is true. >> sir, you're literally suing organizations that were involved, including donald trump, that were involved in creating this nightmare for the united states. along the defendants, the people you're suing, are you suing any antifa groups? >> well, they were not involved in it. there's no evidence they were there. >> okay. are you suing any grandparents
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and people who had children with them? >> no, i'm not suing any black lives matter individuals or anything. i'm looking strictly at the people who showed up on january 6th, broke into the capitol, put all our lives at risk. the proud boys, the oath keepers. and i want former president trump and rudy giuliani, who obviously was his lawyer at the time, who encouraged all of this. we have -- >> yeah. >> mountains of email, twitter feeds encouraging people to come. we now have testimony from people who have been charged, who are saying we came to washington because president trump told us to come. he needed help. >> indeed. giuliani said "trial by combat." he said that on the ellipse. elizabeth newman, another thing that was alarming that we heard
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today was the head of the capitol police today, mr. sund, basically saying that capitol police did not have the intelligence about the fact that you had armed insurrectionists, right-wing groups like the oath keepers, like the proud boys, who were coming to the capitol, prepared for war. what do you make of the idea that, as he says, they didn't get that intel until yesterday? >> it's kind of shocking, because any number of people on the outside were raising alarms just based on open source intelligence. there's an open source intelligence group i follow and they had raised alarms multiple days prior to january 6th. so i question that. i'm not suggesting that they were lying under oath but i don't think that they fully are accurately conveying the problem. it wasn't an intelligence-sharing problem. it was not understanding the intelligence that you had. and here is the other thing.
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i heard them say like there was no intelligence that they were going to storm the capitol or that the attack was going to happen there. i think we've gotten lazy and we seem to think that intelligence analysts are supposed to predict the future. that's not the role of intelligence. intelligence is supposed to give you their best assessment, the likelihood of something happening and even if you're the security professional, your job is threat management, you are always prepared. we've learned the hard way, over and over again, overprepare. so if you get that threat assessment that there might be a potential for violence, that there are people focused on the capitol. you overprepare and hope you don't need it. but they kind of seem to do the opposite. there's probably a number of reasons why they underestimated the threat that was presented to them but i don't buy that this is an intelligence failure. i buy that it's a lack of understanding of the threat. >> i want to get to what you
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just said, elizabeth. you served in the previous administration. you know, what is sort of unspoken here, including in the pentagon being so reluctant to deploy the national guard is that they at any time want to deploy the national guard against trump supporters, they didn't want to anger trump and his supporters by festooning the ellipse, that they didn't want too many cops there. and they didn't want to make his supporters unwelcome. that's what i read. is that close to what you're feeling is the case? >> i think there are multiple factors at play. that is certainly a huge one. nobody wanted to upset the president. there was rightly a recognition that what happened in lafayette square in june of last year was horrid and should never happen again, but we're talking about a different situation. we didn't have threat intelligence that somebody was going to try to do something in lafayette square. the overreach was that it was
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cleared for basically a photo-op and they used military forces and combat approaches to clear peaceful protests. we had indications that there were people in the crowd, not the entire crowd, but there were a group of people that were planning violence. it would be completely appropriate to make sure you're prepared for that violence. i feel like there's probably lots of reasons that it shall and lots of bad decisions made along the way, including the very obvious one of unconscious bias and we need to be transparent about that. that is a very real thing. >> absolutely. >> when you talk about domestic terrorism, people think it's a bunch of white guys that get in bar fights and can't get their act together, can't do too much harm. clearly, that's not the case. we have threat actors with malicious intent and they were armed and could have caused a
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lot more harm on january 6th. >> indeed. i'm out of time. representative thompson, you've been contacted apparently by proud boys who want to talk to you. can you quickly tell us what they want to talk to you about as part of this lawsuit? >> one of the comments was -- and i directed them to my lawyer, joy. basically i told them whatever you want to say, you need to talk to my lawyer. they said no, we want to talk to you. no. the lawsuit is filed. you talk to the lawyer or i'll see you in court. >> congressman benny thompson, elizabeth neumann, thank you very much. republicans love to decry cancel culture but are they trying to cancel a biden nominee because of her tweets? the irony, cpac conference is america uncanceled but they just canceled a long-time trump supporter from appearing.
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oopsy. when ted cruz wasn't texting on his phone, or ignoring the testimony of police, he was whining that people need to care about others. >> you know here's a suggestion. just don't be a [ bleep ] . just, you know, treat each other as human beings, have some monacle of respect. >> take your own advice. i know you're trying. always a terrible bridesmaid. never a bridezilla. tonight's terrible reveal is coming up. i'll be joined by dr. anthony fauci and members of the congressional black caucus to discuss racial disparities in the covid crisis go to msnbc.com/townhall to split questions for our experts. msnbc.com/townhall to split questions for our experts. gillette proglide.
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i carry my life experiences with me everywhere i go. it's those experiences that give me hope for the future f an indigenous woman of humble beginnings can be secretary of the interior, our country holds promise for everyone. >> president biden's nominee deb haaland of new mexico would make history as the first indigenous woman to head the agency. it should come as no surprise that republican senators bank rolled by oil and gas interests were slamming her record of environmental stewardship, including montana senator steve danes, who vowed to block her nomination and later tweeted those kind of.
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>> biden appoints nedra gupta. biden promised unity but this is a dangerous appointee. >> biden appointed javierbeccera to run it. he's an activist, not a doctor. >> yes, yes, that's right. president biden's nominees of color have faced outside opposition. most vehement opposition, neera tanden to lead the office of management and budget after west virginia democratic senator joe manchin decided to put his stake down along with republicans to oppose her nomination over old tweets he called partisan statements. manchin green light orange
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julius caesar's grenell as basically a twitter troll. he deleted his own tweets targeting newt gingrich's weight, his wife's looks and michelle obama exercising. since that was bipartisan, that was okay by old joe manchin. plus haaland's nomination. he said he had a nice conversation with tanden and his opposition isn't personal. there's a time for bipartisanship to begin. we'll see what happens on the other side. "new york times" editorial board, republican strategist. i'm just going to go right to you. neera tanden thing bothers me. she's a friend. i like her a lot. she's a smart, brilliant person who would do a good job in the
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role. hate speech on twitter from the former president. all of a sudden people are up in arms on mean tweets. what are your thoughts? i'm just going to let you talk. >> sure. the hard-earned lesson of merrick garland, you just have to ignore this as nonsense are red meat that these republican are choosing to throw to their base and move forward, build a coalition and do the work. getting caught up in these activities is really silly because real bipartisanship is important. building consensus over issues that americans need like vaccine
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rollout, like infrastructure, that's important work. that's where you have to say elections have consequences. you get your folks in line, whip the votes, do the work and you ignore the noise. >> whatever their background or horrors of their past, trump would say, i'm going to put them in as acting and that would be the end of it. deputy omb post that maybe some in the black caucus are saying let's push her instead in case tanden's nomination goes down. she's a woman of trouble and will also be portrayed as a
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radical and be unacceptable. they're blocking or attacking every woman or man of color that biden nominates. i don't understand what democrats don't understand about that. >> first i think a president gets to choose his cabinet and unless there's some fatal flaw, which there usually isn't, because they get vetted, they should be supported and endorsed by the senate. the difference with tanden, she was overtly political. >> so was grinell. >> let me finish. the point i have is senate republicans are always hypocritical with anything in the last four or five years. it's not surprising they're
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doing this. 70 some odd percent of the american public they're looking for an us versus them issue. they're doing it overtly, ugly and they're trying to take joe biden's message of uniting our country and foil it again. they can't do it on important things, they can't do it on covid relief, on moving our
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country forward, build back better. what can they do it on? race. that's what they're doing. and it's fundamentally wrong. >> i know joe manchin has his own politics in west virginia. however he has spoken up about two nominees, both are women of color. i don't understand what his politics are in this instance because he's also spoken out against the checks that people are desperately needing for relief. he has placed himself in a strange political position. i don't get it. do you get it? he was for a lot of nominees one might think is objectionable. he was okay on kavanaugh and lots of other people in the trump administration. >> yeah. i honestly don't get it either. i will tell you the fact that we're having a conversation
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right now about what's inside joe manchin's head is a very frustrating example of the kind of structural disadvantage faced by the majority of americans in this country because of the electoral college and the map of the senate map that we are held hostage as a country by the whims of a senator from a very small state comparatively, who is part of the majority at this point but doesn't represent a majority of americans and that really is a direct line to the lingering effects of the filibuster and the blocking of the expansion of democracy. a majority of americans voted to put democrats in office not because they want hyper partisanship but want the country to work again and they want an end to racist, fascist politics. you know what? i think that's the message that the democrats need to see.
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if they keep doing the work and keep a tough line on these nominations, they can probably -- they'll be okay. but they shouldn't be allowed to be held hostage from a single democrat from west virginia. if this is the opening note what it will look like a year from now on far tougher battles? >> indeed. once they get one person they will come for more. biden could just make her acting. that's what the previous guy would have done. mara gay, susan, thank you very much. still ahead one year since the killing of ahmaud arbery in georgia, a new report finds colorado police had no reason to detain young elijah mcklain. el.
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we now turn to some breaking news. the police officers who placed a mesh hood on a black man in rochester, pressing his face into the pavement for two minutes until he died of suffocation will not be charged in his death. that unfortunately not so surprising news comes as we mark one year since ahmaud arbery was shot and killed by three white vigilantes with police connections as he jogged on a street in georgia. a separate case that occurred 18
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months ago when 23-year-old elijah mcclain died when police officers in aurora, colorado, restrained him with a choke hold that's since been banned. the body cam footage we're about to show you is disturbing so take a moment and here we go. >> he looked sketchy. he might be a bad person. >> right there. stop. stop. stop. i have a right to stop you because you're being suspicious. turn around. turn around. stop. >> let go of me. seek respect to boundaries that i am speaking. i was just going home. >> an independent investigation has concluded police had no legal basis to stop or use force on mcclain and they sedated him
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without conducting anything more than a brief visual observation. co-founder and ceo. i liveed not too far from aurora, growing up there. i'm familiar with that police department. the idea these police officers would say we have a right to stop you because you seem suspicious, it almost feels like if you're black you don't have the right to walk the streets in this country. >> that's what we saw. we're used to hearing the refrain, stop resisting. stop resisting. the officers in this case said stop tensing up. at what point are we supposed to have super human control of our bodies when armed representative of our state grab us on our way home, don't explain why and tell us how we're supposed to move in i mean, the last words of elijah mcclain says i'm an introvert.
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i don't do those things. you all are beautiful and i love you. please try and forgive me while his life is being -- they're drugging him without asking him because they decided like an animal he needs to be sedated. communities are beyond tired. they're beyond enraged. i don't think we have words for eat motions in this kind of space. when you say it feels like we don't have the right to do anything when law enforcement can do everything and there will be no consequences. >> we saw this happen in dallas where a young man is walking home in the freezing cold because it's freezing and there's an ice storm, snow storm and he gets detained. we're going to arrest you and you're going to sit in jail overnight for nothing. just for walking. joe biden tweeted about the other case, ahmaud arbery.
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a black man should be able to go for a jog without fearing for his life. today we remember ahmaud arbery's life and we dedicate ourselves to this make this country safer for people of color. >> when i laid ahmaud to rest last february part of me left also. it's painful. i'm hope ing hoping. i pray. i have another son. i have grandsons. and i pray. i pray. >> this was essentially a chase down lynching. ahmaud arbery's mom, wanda cooper jones, has filed a federal lawsuit against the men charged with killing her son and
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police officers she says conspired to protect the killers. filed a million dollar lawsuit. she can sue these killers, people who killed their son because they're not cops right now. they have cop ties but they're not cops. the only chance for getting justice is if the killers of your child, of your son are not currently police officers? if they were cops you couldn't do much. >> i don't know in what other universe it makes any kind of sense to say i hope they don't work for me so that i can hold them accountable. i hope they're not representatives of the government that i elect so i can hold them accountable. i hope they're not supposed to uphold the ideals of the flag that i'm supposed to salute and the country i'm supposed to pledge loyalty to so i can hold them accountable. the idea that law enforcement can't be held accountable because they're law enforcement
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is -- it doesn't make no kind of sense. that's why people are talking about not just fixing the systems that are there but rooting them up and building new ones. we can't imagine much better outcomes than our people being murdered this way without any accountability from the people who get paid from our tax dollars. there are better ways. it's just not reasonable. it's absurd to imagine it has to be like this. >> at the top of this block i talked about this police officer who put a hood over a man's head, basically suffocated him to death. nothing is going to happen. they're not going to get charged. what we're talking about is ending qualified immunity. right now all these big settlements you're seeing are against the city. the taxpayers pay. not the officers. if individual officers could be sued for assaulting or killing
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someone, do you think that would change how police behave? >> it's been a debate for a long time. it's a tricky issue because of the way the insurance process would work. i'm for holding folks individually accountable but the unions end up paying out. all of it is just messed up. we could do things so there are less killings. i'm in favor of people facing accountability if they kill someone but i'm in favor of people not dying by hands of folks paid by tax dollars. in places like san francisco, berkeley, ithica, new york, recently, they are talking about there's no reason to send law enforcement to a good portion of places where they're going, folks are haing a mental crisis, substance abuse crisis or wearing a t-shirt when it's winter outside. that shouldn't be met with deadly force or the threat of it. talk about individual accountability but much rather
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be reenvisioning the systems and the money we waste on murder and paying out of our own pockets for the restitution of that murder. all of that is madness. if we're returning to a world where this is normal, we have failed ourselves and there's no reason to give up. >> people, stop calling police on random black people for no reason. it's a people problem not just a police problem. you need to stop doing that. the people who called 911 on any random black man you see in the street are also responsible for that. that's a whole other conversation. thank you, appreciate you being here. tonight's absolute worst up next. here. tonight's absolute worst up next live bookkeeper for peace of mind. your books are all set. so you can finally give john some attention. trusted experts. guaranteed accurate books. intuit quickbooks live. i have an idea for a trade.
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covid's still a threat. and on reopening schools, we know what happens when we don't put safety first. ignore proper ventilation or rates of community spread, and the virus worsens. fail to provide masks or class sizes that allow for social distancing, and classrooms close back down. a successful reopening requires real safety and accountability measures. including prioritizing vaccines for educators. parents and educators agree: reopen schools. putting safety first. there are calls from house democrats this weekend to hold an urgent congressional hearing over postal service delays,
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demanding answers from the man who has run the agency for just two months. >> we've had mail that's been left in the plants. >> the way they're stopping it, the mail is just not making it to transportation. >> this photo provided to nbc news by a postal employee shows packages the employee says have been sitting in a distribution center in new york for nine days. >> you may remember those scenes that played out last year, like everything else that the orange one touched. it turned to chaos. in fact, misfit of mar-a-lago had plans to privatize the postal service. he wouldn't have been the first republican president to try. ronald reagan led their party to prioritize just about every service that the government provided. when it comes to private companies, we know it's more about the bottom line than serving the public interest. it hasn't always worked out with prisons, hospitals and our children's education, to say the least. that brings us back to the postal service and the
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postmaster general the former president inflicted on the country. louis dejoy who is, in fact, the absolute worst. dejoy is the first person to lead the agency in 20 years with no direct experience at the postal service. he did, however, donate $1.2 million to the big loser's campaign and has past business ties to the postal service's private competitors. it didn't take long for dejoy to spring into action, slashing spending before potentially opening up the bidding. the sweeping changes over the summer included eliminating overtime, closing mail processing facilities, removing mail sorting machines and reducing post office hours. all of this during a pandemic, when people relied more than ever on deliveries. a federal judge later blocked the changes but the damage was already done, causing a backlog of undelivered mail. you probably felt those effects and maybe you still do today. as an added bonus to trump, the changes threatened to delay
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millions of mail-in ballots. fortunately for all of us, democracy prevailed. with president biden now in office why hasn't he given dejoy the boot? unfortunately he can't. at least not yet. nine-member board of governors chooses the postmaster general. fortunately for biden and the rest of the country there are four open seats for him to fill, allowing for dejoy to be returned to sender. with less than half of biden's cabinet confirmed it could take time before those nominations are even made. and in the meantime, dejoy, the absolute worst, will be free to continue to make his changes to your mail service. but tomorrow he will be back in the hot seat, testifying in front of congress and will have to answer some questions about new reported changes that could include higher prices for consumers and slower deliveries, and that is next. ers and slower, and that is next
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heat nor gloom of night stays these couriers from the swift completion of their appointed rounds. unfortunately, the unofficial post office service motto did not take into account postmaster general dejoy, who is expected to make big changes to your postal service. the plan to eliminate first-class mail which includes letters, magazines, catalogs, among others, would slow down mail that typically arrives within two days and make it more costly to deliver for both consumers and businesses. in a statement dejoy said the plan is not yet final, but expect the proposed changes to be among the questions dejoy receives when he appears before congress tomorrow. joining me now is joseph connelly of virginia who will be questioning dejoy. i'm sure you have lots and lots of questions, but i want to start with a memo from the republican side of the senate in which dejoy allegedly personally
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ordered postal service overtime cuts. the section of the memo is called, usps operational shift to reduce exorbitant overtime, basically slashing the work schedules. do you know if that has been reversed? >> well, we know that he did that as soon as he became postmaster general this past summer, as you pointed out, joy, and we know that it had a very disruptive effect. frankly, the pandemic only got worse after that. and more postal workers got sick or had to quarantine because they were exposed to the virus, meaning we needed more overtime, not less. so whether he's kind of revisiting that policy to reinstitute it or not, i can't confirm, but i think it would have a disastrous impact on delivery to customers. >> also on the workers themselves, we know that postal
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workers are disproportionately people of color, they're disproportionately veterans. the idea that you would be cutting their overtime for communities that are special counsel -- special counsel -- especially vulnerable. they have to precut them for 25 years which makes them solvent. is that something the democrats can reverse now that you all have control of both sides of congress. >> working with chairman milani, there are a group of us that are going to put that in what's called a skinny bill, one of the financial provisions that would really make a difference to the postal service, you're absolutely right. that was a provision the republicans put in in a lame duck session in 2006 under the guise of reform. it created an enormous debt
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overhang on the postal service that is unnecessary and unique to the postal service. as you said, no one else is required to do that. and so it probably adds $5 billion to $6 billion a year in debt that is purely a paper requirement, and since congress created the problem, we need to fix it. >> yeah. and the other issue, of course, is this thirst for privatization and deregulation, and these are things that republicans call their bread and butter. dejoy specifically, because he was involved in businesses that compete with the postal service, there is a particular stench around him. if he were to, like, start selling off postal assets, when he left the gig, he would be in a position to maybe acquire some of those assets. do you think he ought to be investigated, number one, for what he did to the postal service, to the extent that he interfered with it, and to whether he himself has an interest in purchasing assets that may be sold off by him?
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>> certainly i believe there ought to be a thorough examination of his behavior and his actions that led to the disruption and delay of mail. it really helped erode public confidence in voting by mail. that part they succeeded at. and really brought this repute on a revered service that everybody relies on every day. during a pandemic, especially. whether he has a personal conflict of interest, i don't know. i think there are certainly grounds for being concerned about that, which is why he should never have been hired in the first place by the enabling board of governors. >> you know, the postal service is one of those entities that everyone actually loves. in the rural community, it's the only way they can get mail. those enterprises don't really serve rural areas if you're republican or democrat. do you think this is the only
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surviving entity that this could be the one thing republicans won't stand in the way of, or do you think they're in such a zeal to privatize it that they don't care? >> i think the hard idiologs don't care. but i think there are a lot of republicans in the rural america that do care, because of the point you just made, joy. in the pandemic our lives are upended. our kids can't go to school, we can't go to concerts or restaurants, we can't work normally, we have to use telework. but the one constant every day for every household and every business in america is that mail gets delivered. and you fool around with that at your own peril politically. so i do think your point is well taken that there is a potential coalition of republicans and democrats who would rise to defend the postal service if the
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idiologs really tried to save it, but they're also trying to sabotage it. >> thank you very much. i appreciate your time this evening. one more reminder for you to join us on friday at 7:00 p.m. for a special edition of "the reidout." i will join the professional black caucus to discuss racial disparities in the covid crisis. go to msnbc.com/townhall. i'll be back tomorrow night at 7:00 p.m. with tom hayne. tonight on "all in." they were beating police with bats and metal barricades. these criminals came prepared for war. >> the first hearing on the plot to attack our democracy includes a voyage to

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