tv Morning Joe MSNBC February 25, 2021 3:00am-6:00am PST
. >> stuff it, egghead. . >> we have done an incredible job. one day, it's like a miracle, it will disaer into. . >> hal hue ya says mike pence, new head of the coronavirus task force. . >> while the risk to america remains low, we are ready. >> any other predictions, eric? >> my father is going to win by the greatest landslide. >> that's this week in covid history. >> good morning and welcome to "morning joe". >> fields and fields of poppies. it goes on forever. >> that guy, joe, willie and me. we have president of the national action network reverend al sharpton. white house reporter for "the
associated press", jonathan lemire. columnist and associate editor for the "washington post", david ignatius. capitol hill correspondent and host of "way too early", kasie hunt is with us. good morning to have kasie's reporting as there is a lot happening today on capitol hill. . >> it is. really good. but i'm going to talk to willie first before we get into serious stuff. >> okay. >> the amount of tape that is out there on the lies, the missteps, the sheer idiot say, the false claims, the sunny predictions, bleach recommendations. hydroxycholoroquine, it goes on and on forever. that shag carpet is deep as one person told me early in my tv career regarding a presidential candidate. i said how is he -- oh, the shag carpet is deep.
you need one of the shag rugs to get all the stuff up there. are you too young to remember the shag carpet? >> no. 70s and 80s. years later you would find stuff that you dropped. >> yeah. g.i. joe. >> it is fascinating there are still republicans trying to attack dr. fauci and twist his words out of their proper context. even some, i will say now, quote, mainstream republican commentators who may have even been a little more careful in the past. >> and put himself in danger. >> mika, also a guy who has gone on science for a year and hung in with president trump.
a lot of people said why don't you walk away. and he said i stayed there pause they needed me there. if i hadn't been there it would have been scott atlas pushing herd immunity. if they are looking for a bookie man not president trump, it is a flailing effort. >> the relief bill set for a vote tomorrow. it has overwhelming support with the american public. in the latest morning consult, 76% support the stimulus, while 17% oppose. when breaking support down along party lines, a majority of republicans, 60%, support the relief with 30% opposing. 89% of democrats, and 71% of independents also support the bill. senate minority leader mitch mcconnell was asked yesterday about these latest numbers. >> on the covid relief bill, the
polling shows somewhere between 60% to 70% do prove of what the biden administration is putting forward. >> i'm sure everybody would love to get a check. but they haven't yet learned about what else is in it. and part of our job as the substantial minority, remember we're in a 50/50 senate here, is to make sure the american people fully understand what's being proposed. look at the size of this package. it's the size of the c.a.r.e.s. act. we passed that in march of 2020. this is not 2020. there are hopeful signs that the economy is coming back. vaccines are being distributed. the statistics are going in a better direction. we're in favor of targeting this relief to the conditions that we find today and looking forward,
not backward. >> the part of the bill that republicans seem to be honing in on is the increase in the minimum wage. . >> the minimum wage has got nothing to do with covid. zero to do with covid. it's got everything to do with their liberal wish list. >> for people who want to stay in wyoming to work and open a small business, they want to make the wages so high that the small business is failing before it even gets started. . >> i push it back to the governors. and we really should allow those states to determine what is best for them. . >> so, willie, we have republicans who are talking there and who are expressing their concerns. you could also hear concerns from democrat joe manchin. not sure right now where kyrsten
sinema is. they are usually close together. joe manchin said anything above $11 an hour minimum wage hurts my people in my state. i suspect by the end of the day he will try to separate the minimum wage portion of this bill. by the way, listen, he should. if you are going to do a covid relief bill, do a covid relief bill. if you want to do a minimum wage bill, put that out on the side. and then vote on that next. because this whole idea that $15 an hour is what a bunch of freaks and left wingers in seattle are doing, not true anymore. the state of florida, as conservative as it is, passed
actually a law, voters, on one of the constitutional amendments where they actually supported a $15 minimum wage increase phased in, which is something this bill is doing too. this is also sort of mainstream. put it in a separate bill, make republicans vote against it. then they will have two popular bills they will be voting. >> 7.25 dollars an hour, is about $15,000 a year. ask if that is a livable wage. as you say, that is a separate question. president biden conceded a couple of times it's a separate question. he said out loud in interviews, i don't think minimum wage is going to survive this. he knows that. you have a group of democrats that will press through with reconciliation and vote with the
$15 minimum wage inside it. is there still hope they can get this separated out with the help of president biden and make it a separate vote after the covid relief vote? >> yeah. it's going to be really tricky, willie. i don't think this covid package would pass in the house of representatives if it didn't include the minimum wage. nancy pelosi has a very narrow majority in the house with a lot of aggressives in her caucus. there is an increasing sense it may be allowed to stand in the senate as well. there have been ongoing meetings with the senate parliamentarian on this very question. it puts the pressure on kyrsten sinema and joe manchin. one of the interesting dynamics. you played a little bit of sound from the press conference. republicans did. they clearly feel they need to push on this issue, that they have to try to change minds and move people on this issue.
speupbg that's because of exactly what joe was talking about. this has become more more popular even with republican voters. it's real that raelts like marco rubio saying we have to be the working class party. that means a different set of priorities than the ones that have been aligned with the business community for so long. the politics are fascinating. >> well, it is an extremely popular bill. it makes it easier for democrats to push through. makes it harder for republicans to do a straight ticket vote against a bill that's got 75%
approval for relief in covid. mitch mcconnell said -- i have heard a lot of people say, democrats and republicans alike, this is the bill with its size and its scope that really should have been released last april before all the other bills. not this year. but be that as it may, 75% of americans still want this bill to pass. they are still very positive about it. jonathan lemire, that certainly puts the white house in a strong position. it would be great to have a bipartisan bill. if the guys, the women in the other party want to pass a bill that 3 or 4 people support, it seems they win either way. >> the white house is framing this bill as it does have bipartisan support, that it is a bipartisan bill from republican
voters. you just hit upon the polls. that has become their number one talking point in the last particularly two to three weeks where they have zeroed in on the polling and noting how popular this bill is. even the 1.9 trillion. in fact, a week or so again, white house aides were circulating a poll pointing out 80% felt it was adequately sized or could be bigger. they feel like this is a moment to go big. of course we know from president biden on down, to pick off one or two republicans has been the plan. that seems unlikely these days. and senator collins suggesting this was a nonstarter, they wouldn't be on board with this. yes,s there are concerns about manchin and sinema. even a bigger minimum wage is
something that has grown in popularity throughout the nation. as they struggle with some of their cabinet picks, in particular neera tanden, they feel confident about where the bill can do. they feel it's a political winner, one they can use as a political weapon down the road saying why did you oppose this? >> it seems the best political move with joe biden taking the minimum wage out of this big bill, the covid relief bill, that would set up two difficult votes for republicans. so you would have republicans voting against the covid relief bill at 75%, 76% of americans support. then you have a stand alone up or down vote on a $15 minimum wage bill. then, as casey said, marco rubio and josh hawley and some of these other members who are pretending that they're
populists and want to pretend they are moving in a populist direction, then they will have to vote up or down on that too. if you have them voting against a covid relief bill that provides $1,400 checks to everybody and then you give them the next vote, which is minimum wage and they have to vote against that because of their business interests, despite the fact that, again, in marco's home state, the state of florida, voters just voted to increase the minimum wage to $15 over the course -- a gradual phase-in. and did it comfortably. . >> yeah. >> separating minimum wage, puts republican senators in a much more difficult position. >> we'll be following this while learning more about the security breakdown behind the january 6th attack on the capitol. according to prepared testimony for a house hearing today,
acting chief will tell lawmakers while intelligence warned that violence by extremist groups was likely, quote, it did not identify a specific credible threat. i don't get this. on january 6th, pittman was the assistant chief of police for the department that overseas intelligence and coordinates with other law enforcement agencies. according to pittman's testimony, the department issued an intelligence assessment three days before the attack that stated militia members, white supremacists and other extremist groups would be participating in the january 6th event that these groups planned to be armed, that the event would be unlike the previous demonstrations held by trump supporters in november and december of 2020. that contradicts testimony given tuesday by former house sergeant
at arms. >> the january 3rd assessment said the protests were expected to be similar to the previous maga march rallies that had taken place in december 2020. every capitol police daily intelligence report between january 4 and january 6th, including on january 6th, forecast the chance of civil disobedience or arrests as remote to improbable. >> so, again, that ontradicts the statement of the acting police chief. she wrote it indicated, due to the tense political environment following the 2020 election, the threat of disruptive actions or violence cannot be ruled out. supporters of the current president see be january 6th, 2021, as the last opportunity to overturn the results of the
presidential election. this sense of desperation and disappointment may lead to more of an incentive to become violent. pittman identified what she called the department's internal challenges on that day. she writes, that the building was not locked down properly, that officers were untrained for scenarios in which the building was breached, officers were unsure when to use lethal force, and department's capabilities were in sufficient. when they stormed the capitol, you could see almost a sense of confusion among the capitol cops. they were being completely overwhelmed. hands were potentially on their weapons but what to do. and they all got in and tore the place up. >> yeah.
well, reverend al, listening to that testimony and all of these agencies talk past each other, it's very clear that we just need to move forward with the 9/11 style commission because we are not getting the straight answers we need to get from these security officers. and i think it was claire haskell yesterday who said when you have a document that says war and the united states capitol, you better get ready. >> absolutely correct. when you look at the testimony and what we just saw was contradictory, what was clear, though, is you had a serious threat that involved armed people coming, whether you could identify the group or not, if you have that kind of viable threat, you prepare for that. and clearly they were not
prepared. there were not clear signals. the pittman testimony saying they were ill-trained. and to have this situation when you are told there is potentially some physical threat to not only the capital building but those in it and then do nothing, that i think absolutely warrants the kind of 9 /11 type of broad-based group to look into this. because clearly there's a whole lot under this, going back to your analogy about something in that rug. a lot of stuff under that rug. there's a lot needs to be shaken out here. and we need to use it to make sure we're prepared in the future. but we clearly need to find those that are guilty of either conspireing to allow this to happen or being so inept that it happened because they were not up to the task.
>> republicans in congress, kevin miracle kaerbgt said the idea is politically driven. mitch mcconnell said it is partisan by design, speaking of nancy pelosi's idea of 9/11 commission. how about those who say, gosh, january 6th was circled on the calendar for weeks and weeks. everyone knew who had a facebook account to know what was coming. so it baffles a lot of people who have been following this. >> willie, frankly it baffles me. i wrote a column in late december focused on the january 6th threat. people did know it was coming. the tragedy here, and there are many situations in life like this, people see things coming but they don't take adequate action. the rules of engagement.
all the law enforcement units were in adequate. they didn't have proper riot gear, shields, things that could have kept that mob back. the capitol police assured command and control authorities that we can hold this perimeter. they didn't. they let it slip. they just didn't have the force or will to hold that perimeter. it was a case where preparation was in adequate. and it is important to review that. the idea this commission is to have a form for talking through what happened and finding the truth. bring the country together. share experience, have a platform for moving on. it is disheartening to see the very existence has become the subject of partisan bickering. that does not bode well. but i think understanding exactly what went wrong, not necessarily to hold people -- lay blame, second-guess people,
but to understand what to do going forward. i think it's essential. it is important this commission be credible to both sides, that have people on it who trump republicans will say, okay, that person is a serious person. it is simply democratic-led, democratic in spirit commission, i think it won't achieve the purpose. . >> yeah. there is no reason why joe biden, mitch mcconnell, chuck schumer, nancy pelosi, can't get-together and select a group of people. that can put together a 9/11 commission for the sake of the country, not for the sake of political party. they can get to the bottom of this most dangerous of attacks. kasie, i know you have been following the testimony from these law enforcement officers who claim they never saw it coming. david wrote about concerns in a
"washington post" column in december. somebody sent me a column that i wrote back in december, that's usually bad news for me. because things are circled. how ironic that the very people who convinced my parents they would be the cure for political extremism have turned into a band of radicals who present the greatest risk to american democracy since the civil war. and that was written on december the 11th. these warnings were coming in. the warnings were coming fast and furious. people were warning about donald trump, telling the proud boys to stand back and stand by. we were warning this threat was coming, warning about january 6th. inside nbc news, we were talking to our e.p. about what's the
footprint going to be for news operations that day. everybody saw it coming. the police obviously knew this was coming. yet they did nothing. isn't this something that even republicans, even republicans, even kevin mccarthy want to know why it happened, why their lives were at risk, why he had to call and beg donald trump to call off his terrorists? >> it was right after it happened, joe, for kevin mccarthy, mitch mcconnell. even lindsey gram went down to the floor and said, i've had enough. then the politics changed. the republican base didn't seem to turn on donald trump the way some people thought it was. now here we are -- and i thought it was pretty significant, as david suggested, that mitch mcconnell went out yesterday and publicly said he doesn't know if
this commission can be successful. in terms of the big picture, david's column stood out to me at the time. and i remember driving into work that day. and, you know, we deal with a lot of protests all the time. there's often police presence. there's often, you know, barricades and other things you have to navigate. and we typically don't worry that much about it because it is usually always under control. i remember feeling that day, as i looked around, that there wasn't enough security for what we knew was going to happen. if you were looking at any of these forms, reading the reporting, seeing people were saying march on the capitol, bring weapons, you could see in the crowd that the way people looked who were at the capitol in the morning as i went inside that something was different about what was going on. and it turned out that that sort of feeling in the pit of my stomach was something that people at the top had not been
paying attention to. and they did know. it's amazing to me listening to the testimony, the fbi sends an email the night before saying, hey, you might want to look out for this. the discrepancies you pointed out about whether the capitol police had this intelligence. no one is laying blame at the feet of the cop. it is whoever failed to erect the perimeter in the first half. it happens every year at the inauguration. it's not as if we're incapable of handling and preparing something like this. they completely failed. to let politics get in the way of why our government was almost overtaken seems beyond the pale. and i do hope they can find out a why to find a credible group of people who can treat this in the manner that it should be treated and was treated january
7th. . >> they need to remember how they felt january 6th, how scared they were for your life. if you're mike pence, the lives of your children, your wife, your family, of your colleagues. they need to remember that. mitch mcconnell's words very clear on january 6th about what had happened and how donald trump was at fault. kevin mccarthy's words were very clear that donald trump bore the blame for this. you can talk about other republicans who also clearly laid the blame at the hands of donald trump. not antifa. not some ron johnson conspiracy theory. i mean, this was straightforward.
lindsey graham said he had enough. then three people came up and talked to him in the airport and he freaked out and changed again. we need to have a commission. not -- i must say, we all know it was donald trump's fault. we all know donald trump was the one who inspired the insurrection. that's not what's at issue. what's at issue here, what is still open, an open question, how did all of these police agencies fail? members of the house and members of the senate and the people of the united states so badly when they knew that it was quite likely that a riot was coming to capitol hill. they were getting warnings about war, and the united states capitol in the same document. this is about law enforcement officers who allowed terrorists
to infiltrate and attack the united states capitol which led directly or indirectly to the death of several law enforcement officers >> and ask yourself why i member of congress would not want a commission like that, why would you not want to get to the truth? is it too painful, too damaging? i agree they have to be careful and get the right mix of people. but there has to be an investigation. was there any question after 9/11 we had to look into what happened and what the communication failures were? i wanted to point out january 5th, nbc news.com, our great reporters, here's the lead. online forums popular with conservatives and far-right activists have been filled with threats and expectations of violence ahead of a planned protest in washington on wednesday. brandy and ben were just looking for weeks at open sources, at
social media. they knew what was coming. there were explicit threats of violence, calls to arms. literally, bring your guns to this. we don't want to hear there was a missed email and nobody knew. everybody knew something was coming january 6th. still ahead on "morning joe", a fiery moment during an oversight hearing on the u.s. postal service. congressman gerry connolly joins us after accusing one of his republican colleagues of gaslighting. and kevin mccarthy and liz cheney see very different directions in the future of the republican party. we'll play that for you. >> plus, an exclusive look at the reverend al sharpton's new interview with vice president kamala harris. you're watching "morning joe". we'll be right back. oe". we'll be right back. ♪ ♪i've got the brains you've got the looks♪
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33 past the hour. welcome back to "morning joe". reverend al, you spoke yesterday with vice president kamala harris, the full exclusive interview will air on your show this weekend. but you were kind enough to bring us a "first look". in this part she explains to you the significance of something she is doing today. take a look. . >> we are in the midst of a pandemic. we are disproportionately impacted in the black community. but, as you said, half a million people have died. and putting the politics aside, this is a real human crisis. in the black community, we have had the problem of hesitancy and questioning and given a bad history, there's no reason why we wouldn't. but you've been that champion of trying to convince us, including people like me that were reluctant. and you're doing something specific. tell us about thursday
>> so thursday i'm going to visit a pharmacy, which is one of the hundreds that we are directing getting vaccinated to, getting vaccines to so folks can get vaccinated in their community. we have distributed 2 million vaccines to local pharmacies and communities and at least a million to community health centers, those trusted places in the community where folks go for their health care. the point, rev, is this. i got vaccinated. i can tell you, first of all, that these vaccines are safe. it will save your life. there is a black woman, dr. ki wr zy corbett, the team of scientists who created this vaccine. it will save your life. yes, we must speak truth about the history of medical testing in this country. we must be honest about the fact
that people have a righteous skepticism about how it has been used, how it has been tested and on whom it will be used. there's a righteous skepticism if you know history. but i promise you and i am telling you this vaccine is safe. and it will save your life and the lives of your family and your community. so get your vaccination when it is your turn. it will save your life. >> i have i was skeptical about the vaccine. but you turned me around. you've talked to me. while you're out there at the pharmacy, i got a couple of ministers. we are going to the harlem hospital and get vaccinated. my first shot because the vice president told me to do it. . >> that's right. . >> that's part of what you bring to that office.
before we continue voting the first thing is we have to be alive. >> let's not let covid get us. let's get the vaccine instead. let's not let this thing get us. black people are disproportionately will contract it and die from it. we are talking about people of color. black small businesses, as many as i have seen, 40%, are going out of business or have gone out of business. it is disproportionately affecting us. and if we want to get control of this virus that is harming us at a disproportionate rate, part of it is to get vaccinated when it is our turn. part of it is to -- i have my mask right here. to wear your mask all the time when you are around other
people. six feet of distance. wash your hands with warm or hot water and soap. let's save our lives. that's what this is about. we are going to get beyond this. part of what the president and i are offering as part of the relief is the american rescue plan to say it can't only be on folks. it has to be all of us working together. so that's what everybody needs to do as an individual. get the vaccine, social distance, wash your hands. what we need to do is pass the american rescue plan to get the $1,400 checks to folks, to save our small businesses, so we can pass the child tax credit so that families who can lift children out of poverty. extend the unemployment benefits. let's do all of these things. partnering together to get through this moment of crisis. i'm telling you, i have faith. i believe in our ability to get
through this and be better on the other side, to lift folks up and lift ourselves up when we have the opportunity. >> let me ask you this last question. 50 years from now, black history month, they will look at this period and we have seen an explosion of black women. a black woman vice president. but brought in black women. simone. in the white house. you brought folk with you. i saw an explosion everywhere. msnbc, the first black woman president of a cable network. all of this happening. >> yeah. . >> what do you hope they say? you will probably be around in a pant suit and converse sneakers. but i'll be gone. what do you hope they will say about kamala harris, the first black woman vice president of the united states 50 years from now.
>> i hope and pray for mentionel of us who are part of this, they will say they were great leaders, that they saw the people, that they saw the people and spoke to their needs and lifted us up. not only in terms of our human condition but our spirit. >> i can't wait to see the rest of that interview on your show this weekend. let me ask, what was your takeaway from the interview with the new vice president? is she settling into the job well? and what do you think her plans are going to be in the coming months? what are some of the big items she will be pursuing? >> i've known her for several years. and i could tell you that i was even surprised at how comfortable she seems in this role. i think she has found her
stride. and i think she's going to be a real partner to the president and advocate in areas that he and others are going to need her, bringing her unique background and perspective and credibility to, including encouraging people to get the vaccine. i asked her to come on the show because it's the last week of black history month. she said the real issue for the black history and everybody is this vaccine. that's what she wanted to do. at 10:00 today, some of the clergy friends of mine and i are going to get our vaccine to do it at the same time she's going to this pharmacy. because you cannot talk about black history in 2021 without dealing with the disproportionate impact that this covid-19 has had on our community. and i think she's been able to drive that more than anyone.
and i think it is indicative of the kind of vice president she's going to be. she's caught her stride i think in this. and i think as a woman and it will be interesting, you can see the entire interview, she has had to deal with both racism and sexism, to be able to reconcile both and stand and rise to the occasion and know your worth i think is something i think is important for all americans to see. >> so we'll watch the entire interview of course on your show, reverend al. that is saturday at 5:00 eastern time. politics nation. let's talk more about where things stand. joining us is president and ceo of biotechnology innovation organization, dr. michelle mcmurray-heath. and "morning joe" chief medical correspondent dr. dave campbell. dr. dave, just a broadview. we have had news this week of vaccines coming into the
picture. but people are anxious and waiting. and we are still, what, next fall before it really gets to everybody? >> the good news for this week, mika, is the johnson & johnson vaccine. this is the single dose vaccine has gone through the beginning phases of the fda advisory committee. and tomorrow this advisory committee will meet to discuss whether the fda will grant or begin considering granting an emergency use authorization. and if they do, by next we'll, the prediction is three or 4 million doses will be made available to the united states for the j&j single dose vaccine. this is coming out of a big multinational study that included south africa and brazil. these variants that everybody is worried about do have some effect from this j&j vaccine, mika. it's good news
>> dr. mcmurray-heath. we got the information about j&j clearing the hurdle, hopefully in the next few days gets emergency use authorization from the fda, what does it mean for the speed in which we might get the entire country vaccinated? and as we look at some of these variants not just from south africa, but they're talking about a new one in new york city that's spreading around, will those protect against those variants? >> yes. well, it's a huge milestone to now have three vaccines within sight of the finish line of getting emergency use authorization from the food and drug administration. so friday will be a huge day in the history of us combatting this covid pandemic. it's going to be wonderful to see the j&j vaccine get distributed. it offers hope that we'll more easily be able to vaccinate rural communities, where it has
been difficult to keep them at the super cold temperatures that is required. j&j is more stable at regular refrigeration. because it requires only one dose, it will give us more flexibility. it is great to have multiple feathers in your quiver. just this week we learned that moderna is starting to send new versions of its vaccine to the nih for clinical testing. that is specifically designed to combat the variant. so this may be like the flu vaccine. you get your pfizer, moderna, j&j vaccine right now. perhaps as variants emerge and we learn more about them, you get a booster so you are even more protected against them. to date, the existing three vaccines have very solid efficacy even against the variants that have been protected. so this is good news. . >> and dr. dave, i wanted to
follow-up about a lot of concerns about the variants. we're reading every day in the paper things seem to be getting better. we may be turning the corner late spring, early summer. but. there's always a but. and the word "variant" follows it. yet i've talked to many medical doctors, many scientists. and what they say is that we're in the ballpark. that pfizer, moderna, j&j now, that their vaccines are obviously not going to be 100% effective against even the underlying pandemic but also the variants. but that they're in the ball game, and it's not going to be that much more difficult to figure out how to tweak the vaccines or a follow-up shot to also protect against those variants. what can you tell us?
>> well, joe, if we look at the j&j that's sitting on the desk, 96% efficacy in the u.s. similar in south africa. and when they looked at brazil, it was a little lower, but still 70% effective against the circulating viruses in those countries. and they include, especially in south africa, almost all of those were the variant that's peculiar to south africa and have been of grave concern here in the united states. so we are in the ballpark. especially knowing that companies will be producing and submitting boosters that are specific to whatever variant comes out, we may see more. because these variants are happening. the mutations are happening all the time. by the summer, by the fall, perhaps other variants will be of concern. these companies are very proactive. they're staying ahead of the game, keeping the world safe by
developing boosters aimed at the variants. joe. >> dr. mcmurray-heath, i'm getting way ahead of ourselves here. we get a flu shot every year, your kids get immunized against certain diseases. once we get everybody vaccinated, is this an annual thing now that people are going to have to get? . >> it's very likely. and that's something we know how to do. we know how to do annual flu boosters. the really different thing about this vaccine is that, first of all, we have seen so many vaccines in development. over 190 vaccines entered the clinical development stage. and this is amazing to see the industry really pivoting so we have a lot of different approaches to combat this virus. we are speeding up our ability to produce vaccines overall.
producing the first within 12 months was a record. but now they're poised to do it even faster as they prepare to really understand those variants and be prepared for them going forward. so we're going to be entering into a cycle where we need to keep up with this and stay vigilant. but we are on the right path going forward. >> doctors michelle mcmurray-heath, and dr. dave campbell, thank you both, as always. coming up, the biden administration is expected to release a new report today blaming the saudi crown prince for the killing of journalist jamal khashoggi. we'll ask david ignatius what it means for relations between the u.s. and saudi arabia. "morning joe" is coming right back. oe" is coming right back
number of areas in which xi's china is a formidable add very sorry, methodically strengthening its capabilities to steal intellectual property, repress its own people, bully its neighbors, expand its global reach and build influence in american society. biden's cia pick. he also spoke about vladimir putin, saying russia should not be underestimated just because it may be a declining power. and then there is saudi arabia, a declassified version of a u.s. intelligence report expected to be released today finds that saudi crown prince hoe ma'am medicine bin saloman approved of the 2018 killing of journalist jamal khashoggi.
according to three u.s. officials familiar with the matter. his "washington post" column criticized the crown prince's policies. in 2018, a classified version of the report was shared with members of congress. but the trump administration rejected calls for the release of a declassified version. biden told reporters yesterday, he had not spoken with the king of saudi arabia yet but had read the full report. >> david ignatius, the saudis have obviously been allies through the years. troubled allies at times. but have remained allies. the killing of khashoggi made things extraordinarily difficult for the two countries or would have under normal circumstances.
as we all know, jared kushner and donald trump were extraordinarily close to -- remained extraordinarily close to the saudi government and especially the crown prince. how is that going to be changing in the biden administration and how is that going to impact our relations with the saudis? >> joe, the first signs of how things are changing is the cia about the killing of my friend and colleagues khashoggi will be released today or tomorrow. it's damning. as we said earlier in the report, it's going to say mohammed bin salman knew about and probably ordered that murder. so disclosing that, putting it in front of the public with the
support of the administration is the first part. they are threading a needle with trying to deal with saudi arabia and this issue of the khashoggi murder. they want accountability. but they also want to keep saudi arabia as a partner in u.s. security. they recognize this is a relationship that in the long run, if it can be managed more sensibly can benefit both countries. i'm told there are going to be sanctions that accompany our new moves to deal with saudi arabia. there will be an effort to apply sanctions to a group that was involved in the murder of khashoggi known as the royal intervention group. members of the group will not be allowed to come to the united states. and activities by other countries that do this, i wish i could say saudi arabia was the only country that targets dissidents abroad. it isn't. so there is going to be what i think people will call the khashoggi rule. if countries go after
dissidents, journalists abroad, they will face similar sanctions to the ones being applied here. in terms of direct sanctions against mbs, the crown prince, i think the judgment is that he basically holds the royal treasury. it would be like sanctioning the country itself, which is difficult to do. i don't see those immediately. but i think there is going to be an effort with the are he lease of this report to say here are all the facts. the american people, the administration are taking them seriously. and saudi arabia going forward needs to understand how seriously this is being treated in the u.s. >> jonathan lemire, as you know, the cia presented this report to the white house. it reached a conclusion that in fact, it was the saudi leadership that ordered the order of gentleman ma'am khashoggi and famously donald trump said in the tapes to bob woodward, i saved his ass. i was able to get congress to leave him alone. so he ignored his agency and
protected mohammed bin salman. >> that's right. the ties between the trump administration and saudi arabia were very, very tight. the white house viewed saudi arabia as their linchpin for their entire middle east strategy. remember, riyadh was president trump's first foreign stop back in the spring of 2017. and even after the murder of jamal khashoggi, there was no creating any sort of daylight there in that relationship. now we see a different approach from the biden white house. he is, president biden, expected to call the king in the coming days. mbs himself has been laid up with an appendectomy. we know this report is coming today or tomorrow. it's not going to look good for riyadh. it will be a refraing of saudi. it reminds an ally, although a
troubled one. the kingdom will not join this favored status that it did for so long during the four years of the trump administration when at times jared kushner had a whatsapp text chain with the crown prince going all hours of the day and night, raising real security concerns. needless to say, we don't anticipate the same with this white house. jonathan lemire and david ignatius, thank you both. it is now the top of the hour. let's bring in msnbc contributor mike barnicle, professor at morgan state university, msnbc political contributor jason johnson joins us. and "new york times" national political reporter lisa lair. good to have you all on board this hour. president biden's $1.9 trillion relief bill set for a vote in the house tomorrow as new
polling finds it has overwhelming support with the american public. in the latest morning consult political poll, 76% support the stimulus while 17% oppose. when breaking support down along party lines, a majority of republicans, 60% support the relief with 30% opposing. 89% of democrats and 71% of independents also support the bill. senate minority leader mitch mcconnell was asked about these latest numbers. >> on the covid relief bill, the polling all shows somewhere between 60% and 70% of americans do approve with what the biden administration is putting forward. do you worry your unity and opposing it puts republicans on the opposite side of the american people on this bill?
>> i'm sure everybody would love to get a check. but they haven't yet learned about what else is in it. and part of our job as the substantial minority, remember we're in a 50/50 senate here, is to make sure the american people fully understand what's being proposed. look at the size of this package. it's the size of the c.a.r.e.s. act. we passed that in march of 2020. this is not 2020. there are hopeful signs that the economy is coming back. vaccines are being distributed. the statistics are going in a better direction. we're in favor of targeting this relief to the conditions that we find today and looking forward, not backward. >> lisa lair, what are you hearing about republican support for this bill? >> well, i spent the last few days talking to a whole bunch of republican voters across the country. what i'm hearing is while republicans in washington may be fairly united against this legislation, that is not the case with actual republican voters. a fair number of them, as we saw
in the poll, i think you guys had 3 in 10. i have seen other surveys that are higher, close to 45%, who like the legislation, or another round of stimulus checks. they also expressed softer views towards president biden. some of them expressed openness to republicans working with the new president. so i do think there is a really disconnect between a significant portion of the republican party and republican leaders in congress. some of that reflects, you know, how president trump left the party with no real ideological framework or messaging to deal with big issues like this bill. >> jason johnson, i think i speak for america, first of all, when i say you are killing the turtleneck, number one. . >> oh, yeah. . >> and i like the snoop wine over your shoulder. we have talked about the snoop wine in the past. we are discussing the minimum wage. you heard minority leader mitch mcconnell saying there shouldn't be a $15 minimum wage hike.
if you want to do it, do it separately. do you expect when all is said and done there is a minimum wage bill in the covid relief bill? . >> no, willie. unfortunately, no. it will be pushed by the wayside. they have two things they have to push for. a stimulus check that goes to people that adds up to $2,000 at some point. they do not want to be slammed next summer when it comes to 2022 election time by not having gone the $2,000 checks or some variation to people. they can always fight for $15 minimum wage. they can fight for it at the state level, the federal level. i think that will go by the wayside. the larger problem here, and we have seen this with gun reform, immigration reform. there is such a clear disconnect between relationship leadership and what regular people want. i don't know any regular person out there who is out of a job right now, who has a spouse out
of a job right now, trying to make ends meet. we are talking about kids having to move back in with family, relatives have lost jobs due to the pandemic. no person is angry about getting a check. no regular person right now in america is saying, yeah, i think the next six months will be significantly better the way mitch mcconnell is saying. mitch wants to be an obstructionist, but it's not good policy. hopefully democrats will get something that hasn't been completely hacked up and marked up by the time they can push it through in the senate. now, to the moment yesterday when kevin mccarthy and conference chair liz cheney were asked about whether form er president trump should be speak at the annual conservative political action conference this weekend. >> do you believe president trump should be speaking -- or former president trump should be speaking at cpac this weekend? >> yes, he should. >> congresswoman cheney?
>> that's up to cpac. i have been clear i don't think he should play a role. . >> on that high note, thank you all very much. >> you know, it really is fascinating. it is fascinating. disgusting is another word for it. but i choose to be positive today. &say it's absolutely fascinating. yes, yes he should go by kevin mccarthy when we have him on the house floor on video blaming donald trump for the insurrection against the united states capitol, the house and
the senate were in the middle of. he was very clear, as was lindsey graham, as were other republicans after they heard those -- the mobs coming for them. after they heard the mob chanting, hang mike pence. and yet here we are a month later. why, of course he should be a speaker. kevin is -- >> pathetic. >> kevin and his republicans, trump republicans, they are in a league of their own when it comes to hypocrisy. >> it's incredible. he did speak out occasionally. but then remember he flew down to mar-a-lago quickly to kiss the ring, make sure there was a picture between the two of them together. lindsey graham did the same playing golf with former president trump last weekend. they do believe he is still in charge of the republican party. mike barnicle, you could not find a more stark illustration of where the republican party is
than what we saw yesterday. kevin mccarthy said yes, he should speak at cpac, liz cheney saying no, and then the two walking in separate directions. >> that is the state of the republican party, willie. it's understandable we are totally occupied and preoccupied with covering the pandemic and the establishment of vaccines and the urge to get more people vaccinated each and every day and to get the economy really moving again as a result of pushing back on the virus. but the big story in american politics i think has to be the disillusion of the republican party. it's more than a civil war. it's a fracturing of the republican party. and you're absolutely right, liz chain where walking one way, kevin mccarthy walking the other
way and the huge gap in between. and the hubbub of the covid bill, lack of partisanship, listening to mitch mcconnell, the clip we played earlier, talking about, well, people don't know what's in the bill. people do know what is in the bill. help for people is in the bill. not as much help as mitch mcconnell gave the rich taxpayers, a big benefit in 2017 when they passed a trillion tax bill. but this is a bipartisan bill we're talking about. the bipartisan is on main street. it's not on capitol hill. yet the republican party continues to go their own way. they are going to have a feast this weekend at the cpac conference when trump talks. joe wrote about it earlier in the week. it's a huge part of the story. >> i may stand alone with this, my gut is that lindsey graham
and kevin mccarthy are actually not that stupid and they're stuck. and knowing donald trump, they're stuck. but here is liz cheney, basically standing alone. there are a few other voices in the republican party. here she is speaking on this on tuesday. >> it's very important for us to ignore the temptation to look away. especially for us as republicans to make clear that we aeurpbt the party of a white supremacy. you saw anti-semitism. you saw the symbols of holocaust denial at the capitol that day. you saw a confederate flag being carried through the rotunda. and i think we as republicans in particular have a duty and an obligation to stand against that, to stand against
insurrection. the president and many around him pushed around this idea that the election had been stolen. that is a dangerous claim. it wasn't true. there were over 60 court cases where judges, including judges appointed by president trump and other republican presidents, looked at the evidence in many cases and said there is not widespread fraud and wouldn't grant the relief the trump campaign was seeking. so the idea that we in congress would step in and overturn the results of the election was never true, was unconstitutional, was wrong. >> so this is one of those moments where you just need to stop for a moment and realize where you find yourself in you're a republican. one of your leaders has to go on
forum at the reagan institute and has to explain to the american people and probably to you as members of the republican party that the party can no longer be supportive of white supremacists can no longer be in support against insurrection against the united states government. that the party can no longer be the party of conspiracy theories and lies alleging widespread voter fraud when over 60 courts, federal courts, many of them packed with trump judges dismissed every one of those claims. yet here we are when you have a republican leader who is actually telling the truth.
who just a month after donald trump supporters rushed the capitol, brutalized police officers, banging their heads in with american flags, and caused an insurrection against the united states of america. >> that's exactly right. folks like cheney states, these beliefs, these baseless conspiracy theories about the election being unfairly decided, these police about -- the antifa being at the capitol. they are simply not true. they are rooted deeply in the party. when you talk to local party leaders, normal republican party voters, this is something that the base of the party. a lot of people not all but a lot in the base of this party
believe. and i think we spend a lot of times discussing these claims. we're right to do so because they are extremely alarming. but there is another thing going on which is beyond those claims it's not clear what the republican party stands for. trump came in and blew up orthodoies around trade and immigration and other issues. but he didn't really give republicans anything really to replace that with. republicans just reuped their last party platform. they didn't draft a new party platform. he didn't lay out a second term agenda. now republicans are moving into this period where they are in the wilderness. it's unclear what they will rally against. there is no other vision to put forward really other than broad reopening about how they would lead the country out of this virus. how they would lead the country towards economic recovery. that makes it hard to move
voters and local officials to move away from anything other than looking backwards towards the election. we will see the agenda of cpac. 11 panels on election integrity. not nearly as many on the virus or the economy. . >> they have cast their lot. president trump will speak there on sunday. one of the loudest voices is jim jordan of ohio. he mixed it up yesterday at a hearing of the house oversight committee with postmaster louis dejoy, leader of the u.s. postal service. it came the same day as president biden nominated three people to fill vacancies on the governing board. it could pave the way to remove him from his position. in one heated moment, he argued the scrutiny dejoy is facing is politically motivated. gerry connolly had a response to that. >> what happened between august and february? what important event happened? . >> we had an election. >> we had an election.
it was all a charade. it was all part of the predicate for laying the groundwork for the mail-in balloting and all the chaos and confusion the democrats wanted. . >> all the gaslighting that we just heard does not change facts. donald j. trump publicly said voting by mail would lead to massive fraud. it was donald trump, the republican nominee, who was planting the idea, aided and abetted by disruptive changes by a new postmaster general and compliant board of governors that eroded public confidence of the ability to vote by mail. that wasn't a democratic narrative. that was a republican narrative by the president of the united states and his enablers. i'm an admitted democrat and damn proud of it. i didn't vote to overturn an
election, and i will not be lectured by people who did about partisan ship. >> and the man you saw there, the congressman of virginia joins us now. jim jordan of ohio was one of the 147 republicans who, on january 6th, voted against certifying the election results that made joe biden president of the united states. >> he was gaslighting. don't believe the facts. don't believe what you know. don't believe what you see. believe what i tell you. he was peddling that. actually, it was the democrats who were trying to politicize the postal service to disrupt an election. well, the an sit of course is true. that's not just my opinion.
federal judges found that. and that's why they issued injunctions to prevent dejoy, the postmaster general, with going forward with changes to disrupt the mail, in massive voting by mail in november. >> the postmaster general and others said this was part of a reshaping of the postal service and cutting back hours and everything else that was planned and not targeted at the election itself. what's your response to that? . >> well, that's not what a federal judge ruled in upholding an injunction sought by 14 states to prevent dejoy from going forward with these things. the changes clearly were designed to have an impact. and the timing is what tells you that. he wasn't one week on the job when he announced in the pandemic, the worst in 100
years, we will deliberately slow down the delivery of mail and disrupt it in some cases. the to do that in the middle of a pandemic a few months out from a critical election is unconscionable. he knew it and he did it and he did it with the blessing of a complicit and compliant board of governors. . >> and also with the complicit and compliant president of the united states. >> yeah. >> in the middle of all of this debate, with this debate raging, congressman, do you remember what donald trump said? if we don't fund it, if we don't sign a bill to fund it, then they won't be able to vote by mail. . >> that's right. >> so the gaslighting extreme on the republican side. again, they're trying to make this into some crisis. it was a crisis created by donald trump and dejoy. and then donald trump actually said out loud if they don't fund it, they're not going to be able to vote by mail. >> that's right.
and we also have got to remember that donald trump really selected dejoy and the board of governors approved him even though he wasn't an original candidate for consideration and had absolutely no background in postal issues. he brought no expertise to the table. but somehow we're supposed to believe that his intentions were sincere in reforming the postal service. there's no evidence that would lead one to believe that. >> all right. congressman gerry connolly, thank you very much. we appreciate you coming on this morning. house speaker nancy pelosi's proposal to assemble a 9/11 style commission to investigate the january 6th attack on the u.s. capitol is facing immediate republican opposition. with senate minority leader mitch mcconnell calling it a, quote, bipartisan by design. pelosi suggests the commission would be comprised of seven
potential democrats and four republicans with subpoena power only for the democrats. under pelosi's proposal, president joe biden would appoint three people, while each of the four congressional leaders would appoint two. but presidential appointees would be from either party. republican leaders said they would support an investigation modeled after the 9/11 commission which was equally divided between republican and democratic appointees with both having subpoena power. the scope of the commission is also a sticking point. as the speaker wants it to look at all components of the riot, not just security failures. mcconnell says that the commission examines violent extremist, it should include extremism from the left. legislation to form the commission was delayed last week because of the partisan divide so democrats could pass it along party lines. joe, what do you make of this? . >> well, first of all, you need
to investigate what happened that day. so to be going down rabbit trails on antifa, trying to find something that wasn't there seems to be off point and not germane. i agree it needs to be down the middle. you need the same number of republicans as you do democrats. sunlight is the best disinfectant. he's right, of course. and we need transparency here. we desperately need it if we're ever going to be able to move forward and tell the truth to the american people about the insurrection against our country on january 6th. the national commission on the 9/11 terrorist attacks were run by a former republican governor and a retired democratic chairman of a foreign affairs committee. their commission worked in a
dignified, respectful manner. tell you what, a lot of recommendations were actually adopted. and now the united states has gone two decades without a similar follow-up attack on our homeland. 20 years ago it was islamic terrorists who attacked our country and they sought the destruction of america. the 9/11 commission, they showed patience. they showed professionalism. and, yes, they were still able to show dignity. they also put country above party and the truth above talking points. so what do we do now? what do we do two decades later after a terror attack that was launched on our own capitol. when tens of millions of people who swallowed damaging conspiracy theories still don't believe the truth about presidential elections, still lied to about pandemics, are
still lied to about political insurrections. so what should the goal be that drives this new commission? and, yes, i'll say again it should be a bipartisan commission. it's simple really. you start with the truth. that should be the only goal of president biden, speaker pelosi, leader mcconnell, and everyone else involved in putting this commission together. you start with the truth. and, jason johnson, in an age filled with lies, especially the big lie that's been swirling around us now since the middle of the campaign about election fraud, it's critical that we have a 9/11 style commission that can dig down and get to the truth about what happened on
that day and why our law enforcement agencies were not ready for the attacks that everybody seemed to know were coming. >> i agree, joe. but i don't think that you can make this a bipartisan committee. one of the reasons that you can't -- look, we all wish that was the case, right? five republicans and five democrats get-together and they work it out. you have a significant chunk, over 140 in the house and several dozen in the senate, you have a significant chunk of the republican party that is pretending that -- not just the insurrection didn't happen, but maybe their colleagues and the ideology they pushed for and the candidate they supported didn't have anything together. you can't put together an investigative committee where your co-workers may also have been conspirators. if there was an independent prosecutor, bring in the u.n.
obviously, we would never do that in america. this might be the best option we have. if the democrats allow the republicans to fully them, shame them or gaslight them into making this a 50/50 bipartisan committee, you will get nothing but a bunch of knuckleheads like matt gaetz and jim jordan who will study antifa and turn the whole thing into a farce. meanwhile, eugene goodman, officer sicknick are going to be insulted, dismissed and pushed to the side. this might be our best option. this is also really key. the investigation that could be done by this committee could help in some of the prosecutions of the men and women involved in the insurrection happening around the country. this is too important to be pushed down by another fake conversation about bipartisanship because the republicans don't really want an investigation to happen. >> so, mike, the question is,
how does it get done? jason believes it needs to be partisan, 7-4 partisan. if you do that, in my opinion, just my opinion, republicans are not listening before you even start. i'm not talking about jim jordans and others who are going through believe the conspiracy theories anyway, i'm talking about the american people you are trying to reach with the truth. so the question is, if governor king and lee hraplt were able to do this 20 years ago when everyone was looking at george w. bush, and blaming george w. bush for missing all the signs leading up to 9/11, i'm not so sure why we can't do that today. why the members can't get-together and they can't come
up with a plan where we say, listen, we're not going to have back pinchers and extremists out there. let's agree to have a veto power over who selected. you know, this is how congress used to work. you get-together with people who have viewpoints that don't even come close to resembling yours. you get it in a room, mediate it and find a way forward. that is the essence of compromise. are we incapable of doing that in 2021? >> yes, i think we are. 20 years ago, september 11th occurred within a year of a hotly contested election. 20 years ago you didn't have 143 democrats protesting the
election of george w. bush. it just didn't happen. 20 years later, fast forward, we had 143 members of congress ignoring a legitimately valued elected president of the united states, joseph r. biden. if you are going to have a bipartisan commission now, it has to be comprised of people not elected to public office. maybe the chief justice of the united states has a couple ideas on who to put on this committee. maybe it should be led by bill berate pwratton, people like that, people who have experience in investigative work. because the core of this study, this commission if it ever comes to bear, has to be what happened that day. and everything else spills out from that. was it premed indicated? of course it was premeditated on the part of some of them. but the core, the lack of
communication between various agencies, between the capitol police, between the national guard, between the pentagon, who was talking to each other? the secret service. what did they know the night before, the day before, the week before. the fbi, what did they know a week before. and how did it all boil down in that one day? but i don't think you'll have a very successful commission when you have people like jim jordan and other republicans, and democrats too, combined fighting for political prime say in the commission has to answer the larger question, who was at the core of trying to destroyed the concept of democracy in the united states of america. i'm not very optimistic we can come up with a panel that can do that. >> i am the lone dissenter on the panel. i think there is a way forward. especially when you have mitch mcconnell saying the same thing about donald trump that joe
biden said, and, yes, put me down as naive, but i'm home. i'm still hopeful. >> lisa lerer, what are you looking at today? >> whether this $15 minimum wage proposal is going to end up in the bill or if it will be stripped out by the parliamentarian. the progressive wing held back certainly through the campaign but also in the early weeks of the pwaoeugdz and the biden white house has been really good about keeping the left wing in the tent and in the fold with them. it could start to fall apart if this $15 minimum wage proposal isn't included in this bill. so that's going to be a really big deal in terms of how quickly this legislation can get across the finish line.
all right. "new york times" lisa lerer, great to have you. still ahead on "morning joe", president biden's approximatic for interior secretary got a major boost yesterday after joe manchin voiced his support for her nomination. we'll talk about that and the fight to get some of biden's other picks confirmed. you're watching "morning joe". we'll be right back. oe". we'll be right back. ♪ for every idea out there, that gets the love it should ♪ ♪ there are 5 more that don't succeed ♪ ♪ and so are lost for good ♪ ♪ and some of them are pretty flawed ♪ ♪ and some of them are slightly odd ♪ ♪ but many are small businesses that simply lack the tool ♪ ♪ to find excited people who will stop and say 'that's cool'♪ ♪ and these two, they like this idea ♪ ♪ and those three like that one.♪ ♪ and that's 'cause personalized ads ♪ ♪ find good ideas for everyone ♪
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even were sworn in. that's the tradition. but we're doing fine. i think we're going to be in odhape. >> president joe biden commenting on the pace of his cabinet confirmations. neera tanden's chances to lead the white house office of management and budget remains in limbo. two senate panels postponed their votes to approve her nomination yesterday. the administration will have to get at least one republican vote for her since democrat joe manchin is a no vote. republican senator lisa murkowski has not decided which way they will vote. she was unaware of tanden's disparaging tweets about her. even if it does not go through, the white house is eyeing other roles for her. >> she's a great candidate for the job. and certainly we're fighting our guts out to get her confirmed. if neera tanden is not confirmed, she will not become the budget director.
we will find another place that does not require senate confirmation. >> meanwhile, interior secretary nominee deb haaland's chance for confirmation got a big boost when joe manchin came out in support of her. joining us now, sharice davids of kansas. so why don't we start right there. neera tanden, it's looking really tough. but we have a great diverse set of nominees. >> yeah. i think that president biden has put together a diverse, experienced phenomenal set of nominees for the various cabinet positions. and obviously i am very, very supportive and excited to see the progress that we're seeing on deb haaland's nomination to
run the department of interior, which is such an important post. >> and tell us -- you're here also to talk about the equality act. give us a sense of what that would be able to do that extends the growth that we have seen so far on these levels. . >> yeah. so equality act is a key piece of legislation that we actually passed out of the house in the last session of congress in a bipartisan way, i'll add. we had eight republican colleagues of ours vote in favor of extending protections to lgbt plus community in all aspects of our lives, whether we're talking about health care, housing, access to education in places where in a lot of states right now, people who were part of the community don't experience all the same rights and benefits,
protections and responsibilities that everyone else does. you know, in my home state of kansas, i can be the representative to the u.s. house for the third district. and i can also be turned away for housing, or health care. that's unacceptable for anyone to have to deal with that type of discrimination. . >> all right. jason johnson has a question. jason. >> congresswoman, we have been talking earlier today about the importance of pushing for a minimum wage of $15, a living wage across the country that would lift many, many americans out of poverty, even people suffering right now during the pandemic. can you talk a little bit about the popularity about that kind of policy and the impact it could have on your home state of kansas, a red state but where a bill like this, if it became law, would have a huge impact. >> yeah. well, good morning, jason. i think that whether we're
talking about the covid relief package that we are working on so hard in the house or the equality act which would extend protections to the lbgtq plus community, there is a common theme here, making sure we are protecting everyone in our country. making sure everyone has access to opportunity. and making sure people are getting the relief they need right now when so many people are experiencing unemployment for the first time having to access programs to help offset the damage that this pandemic has done to our economy. our small businesses are recovering. so whether we are talking about the covid package, the equality act, there are so many pieces of legislation that we will be pushing for. what we need to do is make sure we're really getting relief into the hands of the people who need
it the most right now. and protecting those communities that have traditionally been ignored, have been marginalized. and who frankly the disproportionate negative impacts have been exacerbated by this pandemic. . >> congresswoman sharice davids, thank you very much for being on the show this morning. >> coming up, will history get in the way of vaccinating those most at risk of contracting covid-19. we'll explain that straight ahead on "morning joe". we'll explain that straight ahead on "morning joe"
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chemicaled. >> the deputy on scene assessed tiger woods and there was no impairment whatsoever. >> this is purely an accident. it remains an accident. extent is not a crime. . >> the sheriff said investigators will check the black box for information about how fast woods was driving. mika, the conclusion is it was purely an accident. . >> okay. a former aide to new york governor andrew cuomo is accusing him of pervasive harassment. during her time working for his administration. in a post on the site medium, former aide to the governor and current cad for manhattan burrow president, lindsey boylan said she made inappropriate comments to her, at one point saying
let's play strip poker, as well as kissing her on the lips when they were own. lindsey said no woman should feel forced to hide their experiences of workplace intimidation, harassment and humiliation -- not by the governor or anyone else. as we said before, the claims of inappropriate behavior are quite simply false. four members of cuomo's team also pointedly denied the strip poker comment which allegedly took place on a flight which took place in 2017. we were on each of these october flights and this conversation did not happen. now, to the battle against the coronavirus where california passed a grim milestone yesterday, becoming the first state to pass 50,000 deaths related to the pandemic. the state has also seen 3.5
million infections. to date, the united states has suffered over 508,000 deaths to covid-19 and recorded over 28 million cases. meanwhile, president biden participated in a roundtable with black essential workers to discuss their work experiences during the pandemic. the conversation was moderated by domestic policy adviser susan rice and included essential workers from iowa, missouri, illinois and ohio. biden discussed his american rescue plan and vaccine reluctance in the black community as well as conversing with the essential workers to learn about the challenges of working during a pandemic. >> i'm anxious to hear what's on your mind, what you think we should be doing. and then maybe in the process ask a few questions and tell you the kinds of things we're doing to try to deal with what we think, i hope, are the problems
of the people who are keeping us floating. you're the ones that keep us going. not a joke. you are the ones that keep us going. and kept the country going. you're carrying it on your back. so thank you for what you've done so far. and we have a lot more to do. back. thank you for what you've done so far. >> joining us now is author harriet washington. her book is entitled "carte blanche" in which she details how the slow erosion of medical consent over the last several decades has disproportionately harmed black americans, something she says has become more apparent during the covid-19 pandemic. let's start there. how has that gotten worse during the pandemic? >> well, it's actually common for the erosion of informed consent to escalate during emergencies.
wars, pandemics, when resources becomes scarce, when manpower becomes scarce and womenpower, there's an inclination to look for ways to expedite, maximize resources and cut corners. it takes time, intention and money to make sure you get consent appropriately. make sure everyone has a chance to say yes or no to medical research. all too often in emergent situations it falls by the wayside. this has happened with laws passed in 1996 that exempt some medical research from obtaining consent. you can now legally be forced into medical research in this country. >> we want to go to jason johnson, he has a question. >> we want to talk about this idea of vaccine hesitancy in the black community. for institutional reasons, black people have reasons not to trust cops, but we still call them. we have reasons to not trust
teachers, but we still use them. in your research how much is vaccine hesitancy based on actually distrusting the covid-19 vaccine and how much of it is just lack of access? in my experiences of talking to my students and other people around the community, most people say if it was readily available they would take it and the fact is that it is not available and they don't know people who have tried it is one reason they're apprehensive. >> i agree with you. i've written a piece in which i said actually that. we are assuming vaccine hesitancy in high rates among african-americans, but we have not seen data. i've seen lowered access. i do believe that's what we're talking about here. let's not forget during the clinical trials, every day we had newspaper headlines telling
us african-americans were shunning the clinical trials. when the data was released, we found african-americans volunteered for the moderna and for the pfizer/biontech trial at 10%, their population is 12.4% of the american population. so they were stepping up to the plate in appropriate numbers. there was no hesitancy or reluctance. the same case might be here. but we do have policies that do limit african-americans access to the vaccine. >> so we want to go to mike barnicle. mike? >> ms. washington, i'm looking for a little clarity here. what exactly is informed consent? to whom does it apply? when does it apply? does it apply to the vaccination process now in this country? >> yes to all questions. informed consent is a formal species of consent where you
have to tell the proposed subject exactly what you propose to do, what you're trying to do with a study, how you intend do it, what the known risks are, what the supposed benefits are, and you have to keep them informed throughout the duration of the study. as developments occur that might affect their decision to participate, they could drop out at any time and they need to understand that. no matter what you paid them. no matter what they signed, they can drop out at any time. all that must be told to a subject before they can be used in medical research. now, clinical consent is a little bit different because sometimes you can logically assume that a person would want care and treat them appropriately. if a man walks into an emergency department clutching his chest but falls over before he talks to the doctors, it's logical to assume he wants treatment. with research we've been much more careful. we require formal agreements, we require formal signed documents,
which is a bit of evidence that you've given that agreement. but in 1996 we passed laws in this country that said for certain types of medical research we no longer need informed consent or indeed any consent. in fact, in the studies conducted without consent, people often are not told they're in a research study. and that i find ethically unacceptable. >> the new book is "carte blanche." harriet washington, thank you very much for coming on the show this morning. mike barnicle and jason johnson, thank you both as well. we want to mention jason's new podcast entitled "a word with jason johnson" my gut is it's not just word. it premieres tomorrow on february 26th. what will we hear? >> you will hear a lot of me. you'll hear uncomfortable conversations. you will hear people say things in a way they have not been able to say them before.
i'm extremely excited about this podcast. for everything that i have the opportunity to talk about in my writing, shows like "morning joe," this will be a chance to do deep dives with some really great thinkers. we'll talk politics, we'll talk race, we'll talk comedy. everything out there that is affecting and driving american conversation, we'll talk about it with an exciting and i think really occasionally controversial racial lens. >> all right. good luck with that. still ahead, new polling shows the majority of americans including 60% of republicans support president biden's covid relief plan. so why are gop lawmakers coming out so strongly against it? >> plus entrepreneur and owner of the nba's dallas mavericks, mark cuban, will be our guest. you're watching "morning joe."
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movie theaters are packed with sonic the hedgehog fever. america remains safe from the mysterious virus from wuhan, but don't tell dr. buzz kill. >> you have the makings of a pandemic. >> stuff it, egg head. >> president trump congratulates himself on the handling of the virus, in a historic summit with diamond and silk. >> we have done a wonderful job. one day it will disappear. >> hallelujah says mike pence. >> the risk to americans is low. >> any other predictions, eric? >> my father is going to win by the greatest landslide. >> that's this week in covid history. >> good morning and welcome to
"morning joe," it's thursday, february 25th. >> fields and fields of poppies, it goes on forever. >> that guy, joe, willie and me. we have host of "politics nation" and president of the national action network reverend al sharpton. white house reporter for "the associated press", jonathan lemire. columnist and associate editor for the "washington post", david ignatius. capitol hill correspondent and host of "way too early", kasie hunt is with us. good morning to have kasie's reporting as there is a lot happening today on capitol hill. we'll start with president biden's $1.9 trillion relief bill set for a vote in the house tomorrow. as new polling finds, it has overwhelming support from the american public. in the latest politico poll, 76% support the stimulus, 17% oppose. when breaking support down party lines, the majority of republicans, 60% support the
relief with 30% opposing. 89% of democrats and 71% of independents also support the bill. mitch mcconnell was asked about the latest numbers. >> on the covid relief bill, the polling shows 60% to 70% of americans approve what president biden is putting forward. do you worry at all that your unity in opposing it puts the american people on the opposite side of this bill? >> i'm sure everybody would love to get a check but they have not yet learned what else is in it. and part of our job as the substantial minority, remember we're in a 50/50 senate here, is to make sure the american people fully understand what's being proposed. look at the size of this package. it's the size of the c.a.r.e.s. act. we passed that in march of 2020. this is not 2020. there are hopeful signs that the economy is coming back.
vaccines are being distributed. the statistics are going in a better direction. we're in favor of targeting this relief to the conditions that we find today and looking forward, not backward. >> the part of the bill that republicans seem to be honing in on is the increase in the minimum wage. >> the minimum wage has got nothing to do with covid. zero to do with covid. it's got everything to do with their liberal wish list. >> for people who want to stay in wyoming to work and open a small business, they want to make the wages so high that the small business is failing before it even gets started. >> i push it back to the governors. and we really should allow those states to determine what is best for them. >> so, willie, we have republicans who are talking
there and who are expressing their concerns. you could also hear concerns from democrat joe manchin. not sure right now where kyrsten sinema is. but they are usually close together. joe manchin said anything above $11 an hour minimum wage hurts my people in my state. so it will be interesting to see where joe manchin goes here. i suspect by the end of the day he will try to separate the minimum wage portion of this bill. by the way, listen, he should. i really believe, if you are going to do a covid relief bill, do a covid relief bill. if you want to do a minimum wage bill, put that out on the side and then vote on that next. because this whole idea that $15 an hour is what a bunch of
freaks and left-wingers in seattle are doing, not true anymore. in the state of florida, as conservative as it is, passed actually a law, voters, on one of the constitutional amendments where they actually supported a $15 minimum wage increase phased in, which is something this bill is doing too. this is also sort of mainstream. put it in a separate bill, make republicans vote against it. then they will have two popular bills they will be voting against. >> $725 an hour if you work eight 80 hours a week over a year earns you about $15,000 a year. ask if that is a livable wage. as you say, that is a separate question. president biden conceded a couple of times it's a separate question. he said out loud in interviews, i don't think minimum wage is going to survive this. he knows that.
so you put it inside the bill as something he can negotiate with. kasie hunt, it looks like, though, what you have is a group of democrats that will push through with reconciliation and vote on this bill with the $15 minimum wage inside it. is there still hope on the republican side that maybe they can get this separated out with the help of president biden and make it a separate vote after the covid relief vote? >> yeah. it's going to be really tricky, willie. i don't think this covid package would pass in the house of representatives if it didn't include the minimum wage. that's because nancy pelosi has a very narrow majority in the house and she has a lot of progressives in her caucus. there's also an increasing sense that it may be allowed to stand in the senate as well. there have been ongoing meetings with the senate parliamentarian on this very question. that really does put the pressure on senator joe manchin and kyrsten sinema.
one of the interesting dynamics. you played a little bit of sound from the press conference. republicans did. they clearly feel they need to push on this issue, that they have to try to change minds and move people on this issue. i think that's exactly because of what joe has been talking about -- this has become more and more popular even with republican voters. even with people we think wouldn't be interested in thissing this. it's that reality that people like marco rubio is saying we have to be the working class party. that means a different set of priorities than the ones that have been aligned with the interests in the business community for so long. the politics of this are fascinating. the overarching popularity of this bill speaks to that. >> well, it is an extremely
popular bill. it makes it easier for democrats to push through. makes it harder for republicans to do a straight ticket vote against a bill that's got 75% mitch mcconnell said something about -- in the last year i've heard a lot of people say, democrats and republicans alike, this is the bill with its size and its scope that really should have been released last april before all the other bills. not this year. but be that as it may, 75% of americans still want this bill to pass. they are still very positive about it. jonathan lemire, that certainly puts the white house in a strong position right now. it's kind of like, okay, yeah, it would be great to have a bipartisan bill, if you if the guys and women in the other party want to vote against a bill that 3 out of 4 people support, let them have it. it seems they win either way.
>> the white house is framing this bill as it does have bipartisan support, that it is a bipartisan bill not from republican lawmakers but from republican voters. you just hit upon the polls. that has become their number one talking point in the last particularly two to three weeks, where they have zeroed in on the polling and noting how popular this bill is. even at its current size. even at the $1.9 trillion. in fact, about a week or so ago, white house aides were circulating a poll pointing out 80% felt it was adequately sized or even could be bigger. so they feel like this is a moment to go big. of course we know from the tone being set from president biden on down that there is hope to pick off one or two republican votes. that had been the plan. that seems very unlikely now. in recent days we've heard more
moderates like senator collins suggesting this was a non-starter, they wouldn't be on board with this. yes,s there are concerns about manchin and sinema. even the minimum wage is something that has grown in popularity throughout the nation. even as the white house right now struggles with some of their cabinet picks, one in particular, neera tanden, they feel confident about where this bill can do, even if it's by means of reconciliation. they feel it's a political winner, one they can use as a political weapon down the road saying why did you oppose this? still ahead, congress was eager to get to the bottom of what went wrong leading up to 9/11. can the same be said for the january 6th terror attack? we will dig into that next on "morning joe." i've lost count of how many asthma attacks i've had. but my nunormal with nucala? fewer asthma attacks. nucala is a once-monthly add-on injection for severe eosinophilic asthma. not for sudden breathing problems.
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capitol. according to prepared testimony for a house hearing today, acting capitol police chief will tell lawmakers that while intelligence warned that violence by extremist groups was likely, it did not identify a specific credible threat. i don't get this. on january 6th pitman was the assistant chief of police for the department that oversees intelligence and coordinates with other law enforcement agencies. according to pitman's testimony, the department issued an intelligence assessment three days before the attack that stated militia members, white supremacists and other extremist groups would be participating in the january 6th event, that these groups planned to be armed and unlike previous
demonstrations held by trump supporters in november and december of 2020, that contradicts testimony given tuesday by former house sergeant at arms. >> the january 3rd assessment forecast that the protests were expected to be similar to the previous million maga march rallies that had taken place in november and december of 2020. every capitol police daily intelligence report between january 4th and january 6th, including on january 6th, forecast the chance of civil disobedience or arrests during the protests as remote to improbable. >> so, again, that contradicts the statement of the acting capitol police chief. she wrote it indicated, due to the tense political environment following the 2020 election, the threat of disruptive actions or violence cannot be ruled out.
supporting of donald trump see january 6, 2021 as the last opportunity to overturn the results of the presidential election. this sense of desperation and disappointment may lead to more of an incentive to become violent. pittman identified what she called the department's internal challenges on that day. she writes, that the building was not locked down properly, that officers were untrained for scenarios in which the building has been breached, that officers were unsure of when to use lethal force, and that the department's capabilities for less than lethal force were insufficient. joe, you could see that play out as the -- on live television, the insurrectionists stormed the capitol, you could see almost a sense of confusion among the capitol cops. they were being completely overwhelmed. hands were potentially on their weapons but what to do. >> yep. >> and they all got in and tore
the place up. >> yeah. well, reverend al, listening to that testimony and all of these agencies talk past each other, it's very clear that we just need to move forward with the 9/11-style commission because we are not getting the straight answers we need to get from these security officers. and i think it was claire mccaskill yesterday who said when you receive a document that says war and the united states capitol contained in that same document, you better get ready. >> absolutely correct. when you look at the testimony and what we just saw was contradictory, what was clear, though, is you had a serious threat that involved armed people coming, whether you could
identify the group or not, if you have that kind of viable threat, you prepare for that. and clearly they were not prepared. there were not clear signals. the pittman testimony saying they were ill-trained. and to have this situation when you are told there is potentially some physical threat to not only the capital building but those in it and then do nothing, that i think absolutely warrants the kind of 9 /11 type of broad-based group to look into this. because clearly there's a whole lot under this, going back to your analogy about something in that rug. a lot of stuff under that rug. there's a lot needs to be shaken out here. and we need to use it to make sure we're prepared in the future. but we clearly need to find those that are guilty of either conspireing to allow this to happen or being so inept that it happened because they were not up to the task.
coming up, it's not like you needed some secret intel to know january 6th had trouble brewing. just logging into facebook would have told you exactly what was coming. david ignatius weighs in next on "morning joe." lactaid is 100% real milk, just without the lactose. so you can enjoy it even if you're sensitive. yet some say it isn't real milk. i guess those cows must actually be big dogs. sit! i said sit! hi, i'm a new customer and i want your best new smartphone deal. well i'm an existing customer and i'd like your best new smartphone deal. oh do ya?
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david ignatius, plus preemptive push back on a 9/11-style commission from republicans. mitch mcconnell said it is partisan by design, speaking of nancy pelosi's idea of 9/11 commission. what do you say about there was no warning signs? our reporters on the beat say, my gosh, january 6th was circled on the calendar for weeks and weeks. everyone knew who had a facebook account to know what was coming. so to hear this testimony that there were no warnings, they didn't know how bad it would be baffles a lot of people who have been following this. >> willie, frankly it baffles me. i wrote a column in late december focused on the january 6th threat. people did know it was coming.
the tragedy here, and there are many situations in life like this, people see things coming but they don't take adequate action. the rules of engagement. all the law enforcement units were in adequate. they didn't have proper riot gear, shields, things that could have kept that mob back. the capitol police assured command and control authorities that we can hold this perimeter. they didn't. they let it slip. they just didn't have the force or will to hold that perimeter. it was a case where preparation was in adequate. and it is important to review that. the idea this commission is to have a form for talking through what happened and finding the truth. in finding the truth, bring the country together. be honest what happened. share the experience and have a
platform for moving on. it is disheartening to see the very existence has become the subject of partisan bickering. that does not bode well. but i think understanding exactly what went wrong, not necessarily to hold people -- lay blame, second-guess people, but to understand what to do going forward. i think it's essential. it is important this commission be credible to both sides, that have people on it who trump republicans will say, okay, that person is a serious person. i'll listen to that person. if it is simply a democratic-led, democratic in spirit commission, i think it won't achieve the purpose. coming up, billionaire entrepreneur and owner of the nba's dallas mavericks, mark cuban, will join the conversation.
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>> you know what? i just want to say this -- >> they should treat the people who attacked the capitol -- >> that's a good representation of the state of american politics right now. let's bring in veteran pollster who oversaw that peaceful focus grew of democrats and republicans, frank lutz, and we'll be bringing in entrepreneur, mark cuban. thank you guys for being with us. frank, i'll start with you since we showed the shouting and the back and forth. it's sort of the state of where we are right now. i have been wanting to start segments and talk about what happened in 2020. why did it end up the way it did on election day. where are we right now, frank, from what you can tell? >> i'm grateful, joe, you are doing this. we do -- before we can settle the past, we have to know exactly what happened and what contributed to it. i'm grateful mark cuban is on,
that's about the future. in the end we have to look forward and not backward. until we understand it we will not be successful. i got two pieces of polling data. on election night we surveyed the american people. we wanted to know who they thought would win. remember that on average, joe biden had an 8% lead in most surveys. and yet on election night we found 85% of trump voters thinking their candidate was going to win and only 65% of biden voters thought they would win. so more people thought the guy who was losing was actually going to be successful. that's the beginning of the problem. donald trump told his people that the election was rigged, that it was fraud, that they were going to win. in fact in the days that followed, he told them he won in a landslide which wasn't true. i got one more piece of data, joe, this is all data-driven. on election night, one-third of the american people had little
or no confidence that the election would be counted correctly. 1 out of 4 were afraid of their own votes. joe, we have a mess right now. millions and millions of people don't believe our democracy works because of one man, donald trump, telling them something that wasn't true. i'm not an anti-trumper. i don't want to be characterized that way. i'm grateful that your show allows us to -- to explore this really for the first time. but the reason why this is such a mess and why the number one issue in america today is actually not even covid, it's fixing our democracy, the reason that exists is because democrats don't trust the system, republicans don't trust the system, nobody does. and we need to fix it and people like mark cuban need to be involved because it's not going to come from the parties, it's not coming from the pollsters, it's not coming from the media people, i think it's got to come from the business community who
understand accountability, personal responsibility, efficiency and effectiveness. >> mark, one thing that's frustrated me over the past 20 years is everyone wants a washington outsider. everybody wants somebody who doesn't know how washington works. everybody wants somebody who will say i got all the answers, come here, follow me. they get that in 2016 with donald trump. somebody that seemed to have all the answers, just didn't know how to get anything done. he didn't even know how to be a successful businessman if you look at the numbers through the year. what is the key, mark, as you see it from your seat not only in business but also holding a pretty darn good view of where american popular culture is right now. >> leadership. it all comes down to leadership. there's a dearth over the past four years, beginning with joe biden first -- by leading, showing compassion, the ability
to look forward rather than backwards. i think biden truly has an opportunity to fix a lot of the things frank was referring to. the first step in doing that is not being dogmatic. one of the challenges that we've had traditionally and that led to donald trump being elected is the democrats have their set of dogmatic issues that they stick to no matter what historically and the republicans up until donald trump did as well. people were tired of that. you know, i had friends here in texas, and i asked them, i've known donald trump for 20 years, i gave them the litany of issues of why i could never vote for him. one of my friends said to me, mark, just be quiet because let me just tell you why i'm not voting for your candidate. i've been voting for politics my entire life. he's in his 50s. you know what they've done for me? nothing. you know the definition of insanity, doing the same thing over and over again. so to a lot of people voting for a politician was insane. now we are where we are and we
need leadership. >> frank, it's willie. good to see you guys this morning. we're optimistic on this show about stitching the country back together but you look at some polling and you study it closer than anybody that shows how dug in people are. when you hear numbers like 70% of republicans believing that donald trump actually won the election or that joe biden wasn't legitimately elected, it's hard to claw your way back from that. do you hear optimism in your focus groups or a willingness at least to open the mind to the other side when they're both so dug in? >> just look at the polling data that your viewers are watching now. democrats blame voter suppression and there wasn't any. we had the highest turnout in modern times. everybody would vote. republicans blame voter fraud. yes, hundreds of votes were miscast, not hundreds of thousands. so both parties see a difference even in the problems, even in why we are so divided. so no, i'm not optimistic.
in fact i'm pessimistic. the fact you're willing to host this conversation says at least we can begin to understand each other. if i could wave a magic wand i would bring fox viewers and cnn viewers and msnbc viewers altogether at one time to share this conversation. that's one reason why i love sports and entertainment. when people go to a dallas mavericks game and they mark on the sidelines going crazy, doesn't matter if you're a republican or democrat, you're both rooting for the same people. willie, we're not rooting. we don't see the same country. we don't see the same problems. we certainly don't see the same solutions. i don't see that common ground right now. >> frank, can i jump in real quick -- >> sure. >> you know what's going to be potentially an impact? the olympics. if the olympics are played this summer and if there's an american team that goes on a run, is a huge underdog, wins,
and we have an opportunity to bandwagon for the united states of america, that's something we've been missing over the last four, five years where there hasn't been a commonalty across the entire country for us to get behind. so hopefully the olympics get played. hopefully there's an american team, then you will have everybody chanting usa, usa, hopefully enough people will be vaccinated and we'll get past the virus so we can come together in sports bars and wherever. that's the type of thing we need to unify us and it will have a huge impact. >> mark, i wanted to ask you about, you talked about your friends in dallas. i certainly -- most of my friends and relatives voted for donald trump. i coach my son's little league baseball team and i know that every -- just about every player i'm coaching out there has a parent in the stands that's
cheering our team on. who are sitting there voting for donald trump. listen, one-on-one i can talk to my family, i can talk to my friends, i can -- i can talk to the parents of the kids on the team. we may even joke about it a little bit. but what's your thought when you see such a huge divide between yourself and what you believe and the people who voted for donald trump despite everything over the past four years? what's your thought on how we bring this together? not just on a personal level but the entire nation. how do we get the 75 million who voted for donald trump and the 85 million that voted for joe biden, how do we get enough of those people working together that we can stitch this country back together again? >> i think it's in joe biden's hands really. if joe biden just goes to a democratic playbook and proves all the republicans right, you
know, proves donald trump right that this is what was going to happen in joe biden's administration and i told you so, they'll retreat to their corner and democrats will retreat to their corner and the independents will be caught in the crossfire. joe biden has not talked about increasing taxes at all. not one single word. and that is brilliant. now, some people may look at me and say my tax bracket, this is self-interest, no. everybody who voted for donald trump expected joe biden to raise taxes immediately and he hasn't said a word. that's the type of leadership that's a first step towards healing. when you break the expectations, you make people question what they knew before. once expectations are not fulfilled, then they maybe re-evaluate and come together and say let's see what happens. then if we get that unifying action, unifying event, then we can start to really overcome those issues.
unlike frank, i'm hopeful. i'm very hopeful. my email is somewhat public, i get all kinds of email. a lot of it was, you know, at the time of the election, at the time of the inauguration, that all these bad things were going to happen. now when i go back and reach out to those people, they have calmed down. they are reconsidering. but we have to stay away from traditional party dogma in order for this to happen. >> frank, we've been talking this morning that there should be a vote form in the house of representative the on this big covid relief package that includes $1,400 stimulus checks. you put those checks to a focus group. let's listen. >> i want a show of hands -- >> $1,400, if you make less than $150,000 a year. >> how many of you support that? raise your hands? how many of you oppose that?
raise your hands? so a lot more people support it than oppose it. that means there has to be some trump voters who support it or some republicans. jim, you support it. kimberly, do you? >> yes. i support it. i think people are hurting, especially in the detroit area. people are really struggling. >> frank, so you found something that most people can agree on in this country. >> yes. >> we lost frank's audio there. he's at the airport sitting with us. so, mark, let's take the macro view of what's going on. you're not down in the weeds of the polling. you look at this in the big picture. a snapshot of where the country is. there is hopelessness out there. people say, boy, my neighbor
loves trump. i voted for him. i don't think there's a way i could be friends with him again. on the other side people say they're a left-wing radical who sided with the other people. i'm not talking about politics anymore, i'm talking about community. how do we stitch it back together? >> i'm heals all wounds. families have been torn apart. i have family members that voted for trump, we can't -- it was difficult for us to have a conversation in and around the election and leading up to the inauguration. it was challenging. but now, you know, people that did vote for trump and even those that i'm related to that felt like the election was stolen, they're starting to come around again because joe biden is not doing the things that everybody told him that he would do. and so as these changes occur and these expectations are not met, i think the door will be open for us to talk to our friends, family, neighbor, to be able to realize that, you know, we're all in this together. again, i'm optimistic. i think time will heal these
wounds. >> i agree. i think there is a reason for great optimism. frank, i think we got you back. any final thoughts on everything that you have been seeing over the past week or two about where we are as a nation and where you believe we're going to go? >> yes. number one is almost half of americans believe that our best days are behind us, which is unheard of in american history. number two is that almost half of americans believe our political system is broken and almost beyond repair. these are the reasons why i'm so pessimistic that it really is up to joe biden not just to say he's going to consult with republicans -- you realize there's not a single republican in a biden cabinet? it's supposed to look like america or think like america. 46% or 47% should be represented, they're not. if we have conversations that are civil, decent like this one, if we bring in the political community, bring in the business community, bring in average
americans, we can solve this. i'm just afraid that the average american won't be heard. that's what led to four years ago and it will happen again. we have to listen a lot more and speak a lot less. >> amen to that. frank, we'll let you catch your flight. thanks for taking the time with us and bringing us the polling. mark cuban, the most leading question in the history of questions. is luka the mvp of the nba this year? >> if the mavs go forward in the playoffs, yes. but we have a long way to go. >> thought you might say that. mark, nice to see you. coming up next, another top businessman in america, jeff immelt reflects on his 16-year run as ceo of ge and the current state of the american economy. "morning joe" is coming right back.
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renae is not an influencer, she's more of a groundbreaker. renae runs with us on a john deere 1 series tractor. because out here, you can't fake a job well done. hear renae's story at deere.com some say this is my greatest challenge ever. but i've seen centuries of this. with a companion that powers a digital world, traded with a touch. the gold standard, so to speak ;) i'm happy to give you the tour, i love doing it. hey jay. jay? charlotte! oh hi. he helped me set up my watch lists. oh, he's terrific. excellent tennis player. bye-bye. i recognize that voice. annie? yeah! she helped me find the right bonds for my income strategy. you're very popular around here. there's a birthday going on.
karl! he took care of my 401k rollover. wow, you call a lot. yeah, well it's my money we're talking about here. joining us for karaoke later? ah, i'd love to, but people get really emotional when i sing. help from a team that will exceed your expectations. ♪♪ . the labor department r leased its weekly report on jobless claims, the number is 730,000 initial claims. reported, a sharp decline from a week before, down 111,000. economists predicted 845,000 claims, joe. >> his new book let's bring in right now ceo of ge, former ceo, jeff immelt, author of "hot seat, what i learned while
leading a great american company," jeff, always great to talk to you. >> good to see you. >> i've always thought about your tenure in ge, and even before this book came out i was always reminded of a harry truman quote when he was asked about andrew johnson, the guy who had to follow abraham lincoln, he said heroes know when they need too die. most of them think he's talking about fdr as much as lincoln. he had to follow fdr, i've always thought about your tenure, you got into the hot seat at a time when jack welch, god bless him, but when he left that company and i'm just going to say it, a few people do, it wasn't a very defined company. jack bought what he wanted to buy. he was like, you know, master of all things, and he saw. and it was -- let's just say
that you had an eclectic collection of products to sell when you got into that hot seat. how difficult was that? how much of a challenge was that to figure out exactly what ge was supposed to be? >> you know, joe, jack was a great ceo. but the times were just so different. going into this century with the volatility and just the nature of the world. and what i tried to do in this book is just add some context to a complicated ge story at a complicated time, too do it on behalf of the people that lived it with me to talk very frankly about the good and the bad and hopefully people can learn lessons from the experiences we had. but i have great reverence for jack. but the era was just so different and the company needed to change. >> what was the -- you took over
right before 9/11. >> right. >> so what was your reaction, how did you react, what do you talk about in this book about how quickly you had to react to a world changing event, an earth shattering event, what sort of managerial tips do you have for others? >> joe, i talk about both 9/11, the financial crisis, and even covid today. i think in a crisis leaders absorb fear, that they show people a path, but they try not to scare them. thaw make decisions in a crowded room, that they don't worry about being second guessed. the communicator in chief. but most importantly they have a flexible point of view. even if you think about covid you know you've had to constantly change your mind. and i think all those things, i talk about it in the book, both with 9/11, but particularly the financial crisis, which was also extremely difficult for ge. >> hey, jeff, it's willie, good to see you again,
congratulations on the book. >> good to see you, thanks. >> i'm not sure everyone appreciates the job of being the ceo of ge where you have to worry about jet in general begins and the ratings of thursday night nbc. vast portfolio. how did you approach the job when you came in on september 10th, 2001 and how did it change over 16 years? >> you know, willie, i would say that in the beginning, and throughout time you just had great people. it wasn't like i walked in the room, the script stinks, we need to write better. but i needed jeff zuker, and it's really about people. as time goes on it really became a job about how ge fits into the world. i listened to your previous segment, you know, guys, and when you were a ceo in 2000 you weren't really a public character, per se.
you could do things and not necessarily care about the way society viewed you. by 2021 you're in the public eye all the time. you have to understand how you fit with government, with society, with sort of big causes of the time. and that changed dramatically. i had to change with that. as my tenure progressed. >> you obviously came in as we've been talking about at a time of great national trauma, we're in the midst of another one right now, it's been almost a year since the country effectively shut down, costing millions of jobs, shuttering small businesses, hurting the bottom lines on big companies. what's your view, jeff, of where we are right now and what's your hope for digging our way out of it? >> hopefully we can see the light at the end of the tunnel but i still think for the entire country we have to get the final phases of covid right. we've got to get people vaccinated and safe, we've got to get the economy reopened. and i think if -- we all need to be cheering for president biden.
i think if he can really foundationally do a good job with covid then, you know, climate change and all the other initiatives he wants to drive can happen. but we need to do first things first and that's the big thing. i think from a ceo standpoint of a big company or a smaller company we need to be cheering him on, doing what we can to help, and really try to get everybody back on their feet here in this, through this terrible time. >> well, you know, jeff, we've been talking about potential this morning for areas of compromise on capitol hill, something this company obviously is sorely missing. listen to what joe biden had to say yesterday after meeting with members of both parties and ways to manufacture and to boost manufacturing jobs and to strengthen america's supply chain. take a listen. >> this is a critical area where republicans and democrats agreed it was one of the best meetings i think we've had so far and we've only been here about five
weeks. about the old days, people actually are on the same page. >> the world changed so much. even from the time you took over in 2001, to the time you left. talk about the importance of being able to work with other people, the importance of getting along with those -- with your competitors, and also those who may actually at times be hostile to you. >> look, joe, i had a great friendship with the union leader of ge's unions. we didn't -- we came from very different contexts, we came from very different backgrounds but we both loved ge workers, both wanted the best for them. people that have a tendency to make enemies instead of friends and right now we particularly need to drive forward and find common ground. you know, one of the reasons why we're no further along on climate change than we are right now is because, you know, initially people on both sides
throw stones, and everybody separates to separate corners. we need to identify that this is an existential threat but we need to work together to make more problem. so i just think if this is your -- that you're taught it's better to have friends than enemies. in congress, we have to just do one thing at a time. let's get covid right. if we're going to pass a relief bill let's do it now. let's just start doing easy things, and maybe if we do three or four easy things you can do something hard again. >> and jeff, finally, what was your proudest moment, at ge? >> oh, gosh, you know, joe, it's going to sound crazy but maybe people on covid can identify with it, you know, we survived the financial crisis and there's no company that was hurt worse than we were in 2008 #.
it took teamwork and dedication. i was very proud of the team, the second proudest moment was when we moved don -- off the air and put "morning joe" on. >> close second. >> the book is out now. "hot seat," jeff immelt, as always, thank you. great to see you again. >> thanks, jeff. >> before we hand things over, you may have heard, know your value is partnered with forbes for a special 50 over 50 list and magazine, highlighting women shattering age and gender norms, nominate someone in your life at know your value.com by clicking on the 50 over 50 tab. they've received thousands of submissions and the tedline is coming up this monday. so log on and nominate someone
or even yourself now, and that does it for us this morning, stephanie ruhle picks up our coverage right now. >> hi there, i'm stephanie ruhle live at msnbc headquarters here in new york city. it is thursday, february 25th, let's get smarter, in just one hour from now the third of three consecutive hearings on the january 6th insurrection gets under way at the capitol. but this time we'll hear from the people trying to defend against the next attack, the acting chief of capitol police and the acting house sergeant-at-arms. in her opening statement acting chief pitman is expected to say they plan to retrain officers, and streamline intelligence sharing but she's also going to defend her department insisting they did beef up security ahead of the 6th but that intelligence briefings did not identify a specific credible threat that pointed to such massive pending attack. along with that