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tv   The Rachel Maddow Show  MSNBC  April 13, 2021 6:00pm-7:00pm PDT

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path. and at this time hased for anybody to enter negotiations with the united states. but the sanctions are serious. they are crippling and they are a mechanism to get them back to the table. >> senator murphy, thanks for your time. that saul in on this tuesday night. rachel maddow's show starts right now. >> it's always thursday somewhere. i don't think that is actually how it goes. thank you. i understand, my friend. it's a long week already. thank you. and thanks to you at home for joining us this hour. what a news day this has been. the biden administration announcing today that the u.s. war in afghanistan will finally come to an end. and multiple presidents have tried. even in the george w. bush administration, which started that war. they said by the time that george w. bush left office, they were trying to end it. they wanted to bring proofs home
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from afghanistan back then. they sent targets for withdraw, and conditioning on the ground never improved enough to warrant hitting those targets. so the troops didn't come home. president obama wanted to bring the troops home as well. but he famously surged more troofs in to improve things on the ground. they wanted to end the u.s. war there. based on improving conditions on the ground. but conditions on the ground did not do well. president trump, talked about the conflict as if he had ended it, as if he had brought u.s. troops home from afghanistan. he did not. he may have wanted to bring them home. you have to consider the possibility he falsely believed
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he did bring them home. whatever the previous president thought or said, u.s. troops did not come home from afghanistan under him either. and now, finally, president biden is due to give a speech tomorrow explaining this really will be it. starting before the end of this month. before the end of april and ending before september 11th this year. the 20th anniversary of the al qaeda terrorist attack. president biden expected to announce this is not one of the target dates we are aiming at. it will depends on conditions on the ground. full stop. a senior administration official previewing the president's announcement today, saying, quote, the president has judged that a conditions-based approach, which has been the approach of the past two decades, is a recipe for staying
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in afghanistan forever. the official said, president biden has long known military force would not solve afghanistan's internal political challenges. would not end afghanistan's internal conflict. and so we are ending our military operations. again, we will hear more on this from president biden directly tomorrow. but the new policy, the new decision, out, completely on our before september 11th of this year with only enough troops left to protect our embassy there. the biden administration is signalling this is different something. this is not a conditions-based target. this is something that is a date certain. it will happen regardless of what happens inside afghanistan between now and then. and it will also apparently include the 6,000 nato troops that are there as well. nato is in together, out together. what it means in this
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circumstance, all coalition troops, all u.s. and nato troops, every, thout year. at long last, 20 years down the road. if you know any veterans who have served in afghanistan. this might be a good time to reach out. particularly, once the president has given his speech tomorrow. it has been a horrendous conflict there. in part because of the surrealism how long it has drifted and dragged on. there are american service members who have recently deployed to that war who were literally not yet eye live when the 9/11 attacks happened. finally, it will come to an end and a post-9/11 veterans in the country, it is going to be a very, very dig biel. if you have veterans and service members and military families in
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your life, in your circle, who have a connection to the afghanistan war, it might be time to reach out. u.s. troops and nato troops out at the same time, and the second of state, and lloyd austin at an emergency meeting called by nato. from their member countries, to come talk about russia. massing 80,000 russian troops on the border of ukraine. that is more troops than russia put them since they invaded the country. they took crimea and made it part of russia as well. there was a call today between president biden and vladimir putin, whose government is forcing.
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alexei navalny, and the second of state and the second of defense are at the emergency meeting right now to discuss the situation with russia right now, and what may be what feels like a coming diplomatic confrontation than we have seen in years. but they're there, at the time the huge announcement is being need, affecting us and all the countries fighting the war for two decades. all the things happening at wurs. again, the president's speech announcing the end of the afghan war. that is tomorrow. expected to have a one on one with the president of afghanistan. here, all eyes are on the minneapolis region, last night, several dozen people were arrested in angry protests in police killing yet another
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unarmed black man. 20-year-old daunte wright pulled over in a traffic stop. the police officer said she was going to tase him and she shot him with a pistol and he was killed by a single gunshot to the chest. that was sunday afternoon. we had two angry protests with police and some looting. tonight, the police chief and the police officer involved in the shooting have both resigned in brooklyn center, minnesota. and the city manager has been fired by the town. the town, brooklyn center, minneapolis, surrounding communities, set a curfew tonight. tonight's will start later. tonight's curfew starts at 10:00 p.m. local time. 11:00 eastern time.
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and the tribune says there are about 1,000 people out there in brooklyn center, minnesota, as night beginning to fall. we have multiple reporters on the scene and we will speak live with a member of the city council from brooklyn center. eyes there, you see police in formation. you see protestors outside the police facility in brooklyn center, minnesota, after a couple very, very angry nights. like i said, it's been able ten days' worth of news in today's news. and our first guest tonight is, i'm honored to say, is our nation's surgeon general, dr. vivec murthy, he was in the obama administration and fired by president trump. he was brought back to reprise the role by president biden. he is brought back with covid ep
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2ke78ic raging and the covid pandemic raging around the world. i should toe you that dr. vivek murthy takes the post, he has lost multiple members of his own family in the past year. but even as the biden administration has turned the aircraft carrier around and set a totally new pace with consistent science-driven, not crazy announcements from the white house, and the covid team and the cdc about scientific development, about the vaccine. as they have taken the united states from the worst response in the industrialized world, to the best, and the biggest vaccine distribution of any large country in the world, even as the biden administration made those strides, today was a set
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back, and a controversial one. today the cdc has issued a pause on one of the three vaccines approved for emergency use in the country. the pfizer and moderna are not affected by the announcement. but the one shot, johnson & johnson, is stopped on a dime kbaus of six cases of blood clots among women who had recently been vaccinated with the johnson & johnson vaccine. here to answer, hopefully, the one gazillion questions about this, is vivec murthy. it's an honor to have you with us. thank you for taking the time on an intense day. >> thank you so much. it's good to be here. and i'm looking forward to your one gazillion questions. >> let's jump right in. this is six adverse events.
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six incidents in the united states after nearly 7 million doses of the vaccine were administered. when it is such a rare, rare occurrence like that, literally, less than 1 in a million doses being correlated with this adverse occurrence, how does the fda, cdc, how does the administration decide that something that rare is worth taking the administration of the vaccine? >> well, rachel, it's such an important question, and what it gets at the heart at, it gets to the heart of is what's important and the priority right now. that is safety. as you mentioned, they are six incidents in 6.8 million people who have received the johnson & johnson vaccine. but what was concerning, they are serious side effects. they are rare you will serious blood clots that developed, and in one case, somebody died. so the cdc made an important
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decision with the fda to take time in investigate it and push pause until we can determine whether there was a connection between the vaccine and these dangerous blood clots. i should just mention this, pausing is not uncommon. when new drugs come out, and new vaccines coming out, it's not uncommon to see a signal, to pause it, and investigate and unpause, like we have done before. or extreme cases to stop it altogether. but this is how deeply we are prioritizing it. we want people to know it's effective and it's safe. >> blood clots are a thing that happens. they're not the most rare medical complications in the world, in the normal course of things. but am i right in understanding part of what was alarming, part
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of what was dangerous -- that was truly unusual. is that what was seen here in the six instances was a combination of the patients vn blood clots and low platelets and it had implications how you treat the blood clots in this circumstance. the kind of treatment you issue, a blood thinner you give something, is something that shouldn't be administered in this case. is that right? >> you're exactly right, rachel. clots are not rare events. they happen, and they happen with significant frequency. what is unusual about this, the blood clots were happening at the same time as another finding, low platelet counts, and the fact that clotting, happening at the same time, was
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a warning sign. we do see it in rare circumstances, and rare conditions. but the conditions have to be treated with the utmost care, and they often involve hematologists and they are not treated with the blood thinners like heparin who comes in with a routine clot. and brings up why the pause. not only to investigate but to give us time to speak to and engage the medical community so they can keep an eye out for similar symptoms that may indicate this is happening in other patients. >> so if somebody watching this right now has had the johnson & johnson vaccine, a woman between the ages of 18 and 48 had the vaccine and they are now watching for the sort of symptoms the cdc has told people to watch for. leg pain, abdominal pain,
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shortness of breath, severe headache. and the advice is to go to the doctor if that, if you fit the profile and you had the vaccine, and you have one of the symptoms now, what would the doctor do in that circumstance? if i want to my gp, they would do a check to see if i have low platelets. would they contact a specialist because it would be difficult to treat? how alarming is it if i present it to my local hospital or gp if i have a concern? >> it's an important question, rachel. and the first thing your doctor would do is do a neurological exam to see if you had any neurological deficits that may be associated with a stroke. and they could get you to a setting like a hospital where you could see a series of tests
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done. blood tests to look at your platelets, your clotting cells and may also involve imaging, like c.a.t. scans or mris. but what is important to note here, what symptoms we are worried about. and i'm so glad you brought it up. many people who received the vaccine, whether it's johnson & johnson or other vaccines, will experience flu-like symptoms for a few days. fatigue, may have a low grade fever or may feel chills or nauseous. they may feel like they have the flu on day or two. we're not worried so much about those symptoms. they go away, and they don't have lasting consequences. what we are concerned about are severe headaches, abdominal pain, shortness of breath, and these are more of the
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circumstances that would alarm a clinician and they are reasons you should call your doctor if you have any of your symptoms and if you had the j and j jack vaccine recently. >> you mentioned the reactions that people frequently had to the vaccines. last week, we saw a few sites in a few states stop administering the johnson & johnson vaccine, when people had light-headedness, dizziness. is -- those experiences last week, with those temporary pauses in a few different cases, is that unrelated? is that totally different? have those been looked into whether they might have been serious as well? >> well, looking at the totality of the data around johnson & johnson, like all of the concerns that may have been raised, mild or major that is part of the process that will take place over the next few
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days. tomorrow, the committee, the advisory committee and cdc will be looking at the data we have available to us and they will help us understand, whether there was in fact a link between the corning clots and the vaccine administration. but rachel, i think the really important thing for people to realize here who may have received the j and j vaccine or family and friends who have gotten it, is that the vast, vast majority of people, the vast majority of the 6.8 million people who received the vaccine in the united states have done well. and if you received a vaccine and you're wondering, am i going to be okay? the odds are, absolutely yes, you will be okay. what we are investigating are rare occurrences and we are doing it out of an abundance of caution. we want people to take the
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vaccine. if we want to turn the covid pandemic around, we have to make sure that people have the right information and know beyond a shadow of a doubt we are taking their safety seriously and are investigating it. >> as a person who received the johnson & johnson vaccine in the last week who turned 48 at the same time. one hand, you never want to take up and see a headline, and turns out there might be an issue. on the other hand, i feel a sense of relief knowing that this is a decision that was made at the fda and cdc based on the science because they are being vigilant about it. they are nailing down any potential danger they want to understand. so just speaking from a personal perspective, i'm having both feelings at once. what should we expect from the
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process? the fda is looking at this. the advisory committee for the cdc is looking at it tomorrow. what do you think we should expect in terms on of how long a review it will be? if they decide it's correlative and not caused by the vaccine. how long of a process do you think it will be before we know the resolution? >> i tell you, the intention is to do it as quickly as possible. there is a sense of urgency making sure the process happens fast. that is why the advisory committee is meeting tomorrow. i expect it would happen in a number of days, maybe a few weeks, as opposed to months or longer. i'm so glad you got vaccinated, rachel. one more person who is protected against covid. but i also think it's so important in this moment that we not let today's news make us
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lose sight of the broader progress we have made. we have vaccinated so many people in the country. more than 120 million, as a result of that, particularly because we focus on vaccinating older people, we are seen deaths among the elderly drop, particularly in nursing homes. this is a review of what we can do all across america, rachel, if we focus on vaccinating people, getting them information to make decisions for them ssms and their families. and i know it's tiring. we have been at it more than a year, and people see cases ticking up. they feel exhausted. i can relate to that. but we are seeing the light at the end of the tunnel getting brighter and brighter. we have to hang on and keer wearing masks and keep working hands and get vaccinated as soon as you possibly can. that is key to ending the pandemic. >> dr. murthy, let me ask you one last question. it's not about vaccines but it
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is about covid and it's something we actually talked and a lot here on the show. and that's the issue of treatment. therapeutics for people who do get infected with covid. there are antibody treatments that if people can take them, get an infusion of the treatments before they need to be hospitalized, they have shown incredible effectiveness keeping people out of the hospital. we have seen an interesting development, it appears as michigan is having a very difficult surge in cases and hospitalizations, the administration, the federal government is not surging vaccine if michigan, but is trying to surge antibody treatment to michigan, basically to make it more available and more easily accessible there, so people who get infected can get an infusion and stay out of the hospital. is that right? is that what is happening? there isn't a lot of attention to this. even though it's fascinated by
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part of the pandemic. if that is happening in michigan, should we see it as a pilot project to in crease these drugs? >> it's an important question and i'm glad you raised it. what is the appropriate response to a regional surge. and what we have learned, if you want to tamp don on a surge, there are several things you have to do. number one, you want, yes, to get vaccines in arms. but getting vaccines in arms is different from getting more vaccines to a state. because right now, we have significant inventory in many states and one of the steps we have been taking is actually surge people and expertise to allow them to translate, shots in arms, and we are also surging therapeutics, we are surging testing, really important during a surge, can so you can diagnose
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people and do surveillance testing. and perhaps, one of the most important and quick things you can do in a surge like this are the behavioral modifications, getting people to pull back on higher risk activities. we are seeing, people go back in restaurants and gather indoors for family dinners, as people get together for youth sports and have pizza afterwards, these are the activities we are finding that facilitate spread. that is what we have to focus on pulling back. vaccines will help in the longer term. but they take time to build an immune response in your body. and that is longer than we have, given the surges we are seeing in michigan. >> dr. vivek murthy, the nation's surgeon general, a second tour of duty as surgeon general. we thank you for your service
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and thrashers for being here. >> thanks, rachel. take care. >> you too. all right, much more ahead tonight. we are going to go live to brooklyn center, minnesota, a large crowd has gathered once again to protest the police killing of daunte wright. and we have a member of the city council joining us and multiple reports on the ground. stay with us.
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this was the front page of the minneapolis star tribune today. you see the headline there. holy dot, dot, dot, i just shot him. today is the third day of protests, shot and killed, unarmed african-american man. the police officer who shot him shot him by mistake. it appears to show the officer
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intended to tase him. in the footage, she is yelling, i will tase you. and taser, taser, before she shoots him with her gun. the officer is heard saying holy bleep, i just shot him. the officer has resigned. and as has the chief. as you see, in the live images, protestors are once again in the streets there tonight. remember this is ten miles away from the courthouse hopeing the trial of derek chauvin, for killing george floyd last year. protestored started with a vigil and a march through the city. they marched to the police department. they were met with a chain link fence and jersey barriers around
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the police station. dozens of national guards men and women outside the building. 2,000 troops deployed to the area tonight. 500 protestors marched to a big fbi building. when they got the fbi building, a caravan of honking horns escorted the protestors around the fbi building, and you can see the snow start to pick up. protests are on going at this hour. reporters on the ground estimate this crowd is about 1,000 people. the crowd after having spent time at the fbi building today has marched back to the police station in brooklyn center, the surrounding areas, once again, going to be under curfew. curfew set to begin at 10:00
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p.m. local time. 11:00 p.m. eastern. joining us now is marcita butler. a city council member. thank you very much for being here. i know this is a difficult time for you and your city. >> thank you very much for having me, rachel, i appreciate it. and yeah, it is a difficult time for all of us. >> just ask, we are looking -- we're covering this as a developing story. we sort of threw out everything we were planning to do last night to cover a lot of this live as it unfolded. it is very tense. we are again seeing pepper spray. we are seeing, right now, live images, stuff thrown at police and police respond with goes. i wonder if you have words for your community tonight? if you have anything you want them to know as your perspective as a community leader?
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>> yeah, so, i think that a quote i have been reflecting a lot on is dr. martin luther king. he said a riot is a way of getting heard. and with this quote, i think it's important as leaders that we listen and respond appropriately. we know that our community is hurting. we know that safety for everyone is the utmost importance. we do want to allow everyone that wants to peacefully be able to express themselves and be able to grieve but we want to keep everyone safe. >> you can talk about the decision made by city council to fire the city manager? it sounds like a bureaucratic thing but it's operational in
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the police department. why did you and the city council decide the city manager should no longer be in that job? >> quite simply, the council last confidence in the ability of the city manager to execute his duties. >> hmm. >> we felt like they could no longer -- we felt that he could no longer deliver what the community needed in the volatile times. >> do you feel like the mayor of your city, your fellow council members, the treatment you had from the governor, from state agencies, do you think things are being handled properly in brooklyner in? the center in the wake of what happened, and are there things you would like to ask for from the state, or from local officials? >> yeah, i think that, you know, we're all -- this is not something that we're -- we have experienced before as leaders
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here in brooklyn center. yeah, we have experience as a community. not that long ago. but in terms of us being leaders and operating in the space, you know, we're doing the very best we can. i do have confidence we will continue to lead the community in the best way we're able to, and tapping into people that have gone through this, being able to rely on their advice. what i have seen that i don't like are the rubber bullets, the tear gas. and i -- i think working with the governor and the state, the troopers and everyone in the military that are present, to see how we can come to a resolution to keep everyone safe, and for those not engaging in violence to be able to continue to protest and not be harmed.
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>> marksita butler, a member of the brooklyn center city county. i didn't mean to interrupt there. >> no, it's fine. i was saying, as community leaders, we have to continue to work with our governor and the leaders in minnesota in general to come to a resolution on how we can keep everybody safe. >> markita butler, a city council member in brooklyn center, minnesota. we are looking at live pictures on the screen tonight. miss butler, thank you very much. i know it's going to be a difficult tile. keep us apprised. come back to us if you think there is more we need to know about your community tonight. all eyes are on you and thoughts and prayers are with brooklyn center tonight. >> thank you so much. >> again, what you are seeing
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here, these are live images, you see a lot of press there. a lot of protestors there, and the right side of the screen, we see police, and national guardsmen defending what has been set up, effectively, as perimeter around the police station in brooklyn center, minnesota. it's a suburb of minneapolis. it's about ten miles from the courthouse where the derek chauvin trial is happening for the last two weeks. he is responsible for the death of george floyd, who died under a police officer's knee in minneapolis. it's hard to extricate the two story lines. george floyd and daunte wright. not just because of the geography but the grief and anger over their deaths, the two black men dying at the ends of police officers in the minneapolis area. this appears to be a growing
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crowd. we have reporters on the scene watching this. there were a few dozen arrests last night, and a few stores that were looted, although, it was not described as large scale looting. but we are expecting this to proceed over the course of the evening, and then it's an open question as to what will happen when the curfew is instituted. they need a decision to push the curfew back. the points of contention. once we saw protestors out, they were telling them they must clear the streets. it's possible the thinking tonight is that by pushing the curfew back, it might be a more enforceable curfew since people will have been out and have an opportunity to protest, and a respecting the curfew or following it, as an order. if it's brought down, if that
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learn, save and spend with guidance from chase. confidence feels good. chase. make more of what's yours. we told you we would be keeping an eye tonight on brooke brookelin center, minnesota. and we are. law enforcement has given a bull horn warning that the protest is an unlawful assembly and has given the protestors ten minutes to disperse. joining us from the scene is msnbc's cal perry. i know you are in the thick of it. what can you tell us about what we are seeing? >> the escalation in the last five minutes, protestors have thrown the smoke grenades in the
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line of police officers. what you're hearing coming back is pepper spray shot in little pellets and you're going to hear very large flash bang grenades, and it's gotten bad in last ten minutes. you said about 1,000 people. it's more like 500. and the 500 that remain are dedicated to a confrontation with police. if you can see the -- i want to show -- rachel, i want to show the umbrellas open. they are umbrellas open aimed at police. it's that line of protestors throwing bottles, they rush forward. they hit the fence hard and they are pushed back. it's been a back and forth and i'm not sure it will last until
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curfew. i think police will probably try to get it cleared before then. >> you said that people are throwing smoke grenades. they are throwing at the protest side at police? >> yeah, and it looks like a pact of the m-80 fireworks you may have played with as a kid, that put off the smoke. it's not a professional smoke grenade. it is a fireworks type of thing, and the sheriff's office is firing the flash bangs. the bottles of water, the police will start pushing back. they will probably use that pepper spray and more of that tear gas, rachel. >> and cal, are the police making audible announcements in terms of what they want people to do? are they -- are they pushing back the perimeter? are they -- what are police tactics?
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we see the projectiles aimed at them. >> last night, they pushed down the street and a half mile. they pushed back and a gas station a half mile away. right now, they are inside the barricades, and they are is slowly ratcheting it up. and they made the announcement, very clear in these situations. they make the announcements clear. you are part of an unlawful assembly. we can and will arrest you. it's a sign to the folks who are not dedicated to being pepper sprayed, to get out of the area, and that is what we saw, half the crowd leave, from 1,000 to about 400 or 500 people, rampel. >> and, cal, you mentioned you
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just checked to make sure you and your crew are okay. are people being hostile to you? we saw -- not particularly dangerous but angry confrontations that people were not happy the press are there. now are people to you and your crew and other journalists there? >> tonight, they have been okay. i was expecting to be harassed more tonight. frustration tonight is directed solely at the police. the police have send out someone from the sheriff's office who is moving forward an armored personnel carrier, now coming through this gate, a thing that things are going to deteriorate quickly, and you can see, protestors are again just throwing the bottles at police, and they haven't let up at all. and you can see, the little
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pepper spray rounds that police fire from a plastic rifle. they are firing into the crowd and it's not making any difference, rachel. >> so this is like an s.w.a.t. vehicle, an up armored vehicle, and the police are massing behind it. it looked like sheriff markings on the vehicle, cal. >> yeah, sheriff markings right behind -- i want to show the officers behind the vehicle. there are sheriff officers. national guard soldiers seem to be back and they usually fall in a support roll. the past year, the country has seen, things out of control in louisville. for that reason, well in the rear and i want the sheriff's office and local police. it will be the sheriff's office.
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this is now reaching the police, and the armored vehicle is staged here at this gate. the thing, the two lines that protestored seem to have crossed for law enforcement traditionally tonight are the bottles, continuing, and they are punching holes in the side of soda cans so they throw them and they spin. andfully time the protestors try to break down the barricades, that is usually a line. >> cal perry on the ground for us in brooklyn center, minnesota. you and your crew stay safe and get back to us if there is more to report to us. we will keep eyes on your shot, cal. i want to bring in the conversation dion hampton. what can you tell us about your vantage point and what you're able to see? >> thanks for having me on. from what i see, i see a jekyll and hyde crowd.
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this way, i mentioned there are about 500 people left that are demonstrators and here, you have a peaceful crowd. people who are praying. people who are telling the other protestors not become violent. so over here, you have people, hands up. don't shoot. we have one bullhorn. and you have people saying, we don't want any violence. now, if you pan the camera this way, maybe 75 yards down the street, it's the completely different crowd. this crowd is provoking the police, they're agitating the police. and, again, they're very juxtaposed to what is going on here. the police say they want the crowd to stop being unruly. and the protesters down there throwing water bottles and other
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debris. and others saying it's unlawful. the captain has come out, and they're giving people 15 minutes to leave the premises before they start to come out. but this happens a lot with these protests. all of a sudden, what you have is it's very peaceful during the daytime. at nighttime, after the crowd goes down, you have a lot of demonstrators who are much more active, and they get a lot more courageous. that's when you start to get the commotion between the protesters and the police. >> deon hampton for us, live from brooklyn center, minnesota. thank you for giving us that context so we can understand the different types of protests going on. a remarkable shot with deon, a peaceful and mostly silent protest except for one person speaking into a bullhorn.
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being warned that they must disperse. when he got his camera to pan down the street, only about 75 yards, from a much more chaotic and confrontational scene at police headquarters in brooklyn center, minnesota. a lot of projectiles going over the fence. and people kited out for riot duty. we've seen the use of pepper spray, a considerable amount of pepper spray, fireworks, projectiles, bottles thrown. just down the street from the peaceful, calm, but still angry protest just yards away. a remarkable scene as the story continues to develop. we'll stay with it. we'll be right back after this. t we'll be right back after this )♪ ♪ ♪
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as we reported at the top of the hour, there will be some very long-awaited history tomorrow. president biden expected to announce that all u.s. troops will be withdrawn from afghanistan by september 11th of next year, 20 years after they first went there. thank you for being with us here
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tonight. thanks for your reporting on this. >> thanks, rachel. >> why now? why is the president making this decision now? >> the biden administration was facing a may 1st deadline under a deal negotiated by the trump administration to withdraw all u.s. troops from afghanistan. they faced this quandary coming into office, to figure out whether to comply with the deal, pull out all of the u.s. forces, or whether they stay beyond that deadline. and what biden announced was that they will stay an extra four months, and they will bring all extra troops home by september 11th, the 20th anniversary of the attacks of 9/11. it's a moment where the biden administration is trying to pivot american foreign policy and engagement with the world.
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after two decades, they're looking to engage more, focus more on competition with china, with russia, on global health and climate change. they're hoping that ending the war in afghanistan will allow them to do this. >> i feel like people hearing this news today, even hearing you talk about it may be having a sense of deja vu. so many past presidents have talked about ending the war in in afghanstan. but as the administration made clear today, this is not a conditions based thing. it's not a target date, if "x" happens, then we'd like to leave by "y." this is a date certain, no matter what is happening on the ground. it's a final decision. is that fair? >> it is fair. as you suggest, those of us who have been covering afghanstan for so much time, there have
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been so many reversals and twists and turns. and i think they'll go down close to zero by september. there will be some sort of small military presence to secure the embassy in afghanstan. but we're already at the lowest level, about 2,500 to 3,500 troops, the lowest level since the early days of the war. and at the height of president obama's surge, it was 100,000 troops. so it is a very different moment. and the big question right now will be what occurs in the aftermath of the american departure, with the peace process that everybody hopes will result in sustainable peace and a new transitional government in afghanstan. and what happens with the taliban, will they try to press
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their military advantage and really go forward and try to take over kabul, which is the worst case scenario some of the critics have been talking about today. >> missy ryan, who broke the news today about the expected announcement tomorrow that the war in afghanstan will finally end, thank you for being with us. i really appreciate it. again, and keep in mind that as big of news as this is, and i know that afghanstan is sometimes called forgotistan, it's been an ongoing u.s. war for 20 years. but for american military veterans and families, the end of this war is a really big deal. particularly people who have served in that conflict over the past 20

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