tv All In With Chris Hayes MSNBC April 14, 2021 5:00pm-6:00pm PDT
house oversight committee approved legislation, sending to full house, expected to approve it. previously passed the bill last year but senate majority at the time, mcconnell, refused to take it up. that's tonight's "the reid out." "all in" with chris hayes starts now. the capitol police knew a violent mob was coming january 6th and chose not to act. america's selective use of the full force of the state. new manslaughter charges and arrest of the police officer who shot daunte wright, attorney joins me live. new revelations and fresh trouble for matt gaetz, feds have seized his cell phone. announcement 20 years in the
making. it's time to end america's longest war, it's time for american troops to come home. >> afghanistan veteran turned congressman on the president's decision to end the longest war. "all in" starts right now. good evening from new york, i'm chris hayes. today was wrenching in minneapolis area where the trial of former minneapolis police officer derek chauvin continued as lawyers put forward defense for killing of george floyd while in the streets people are out mourning, angry, protesting, chanting, traumatized about the police shooting and killing of daunte wright just a few miles away. all this happening as we approach the one-year anniversary of george floyd's death. inescapable context is not just floyd's death. aftermath of the death and protests and police response to the protests, and also what
happened on january 6th at u.s. capitol. it's hard not to see fundamental contradictions in how the state wields force against citizens in terms of who has authority, who defers to whom in a police encounter, and who in the end fears whom. case of george floyd, derek chauvin's defense is centered around floyd being a threat. a figure so fearsome, terrifying and unruly, he had to be subdued and knelt on more more than nine minutes until he took his last breaths. that's how dangerous he was, tirifying he was. here that when police officers shoot civilians they were scared. daunte wright, 20-year-old man
pulled over for expired tag, before found out had a warrant for his arrest. treated roughly, manhandled, handcuffed and ordered around like a supplicant, invasive to his dignity. it's not pleasant. in attempt to get out of that situation, shot and killed at point blank range by officer who says she mistook her gun for a taser. everything about that interaction, the george floyd interaction, the police are the ones with the authority. the control, they have the weapons on their side, they have the authority of the government. and in both cases they let both those men know they are in charge. that same dynamic plays out in protests we see after the killings, enormous shows of police force. elijah mcclain who died after
police restrained him with choke hold, begged he was introvert, didn't do anything wrong. when people congregated to hold a peaceful violin vigil in his memory, this is how the police in aurora, colorado, responded. ♪♪ >> no, no, no. no. no. >> stormed right into a peaceful vigil and pepper sprayed unarmed mourners at event commemorating the life of someone killed by police. this is an example, a bad one but almost at random. happened last summer in middle of the largest civil rights protests against police brutality in modern history. people participating in every state in the nation.
there are examples, documented, of violence by those and other protesters, lawlessness and property damage throughout the country in context of tens of thousands of protests. but in the context of millions of protesters, only a small percentage of people were violent. and yet, the police prepare, prepared and prepare for those protests like they were going to war. i mean pick the city, buffalo, new york city, denver, colorado, portland, oregon, atlanta, georgia, wherever, they look like they're going to war. they have shields, big equipment, and they do that because they want to let people protesting know who is in charge, who holds the authority, who will bend the knee who whom. that's the point. explicitly, it's a psychological performance. that's what we saw in the streets of minneapolis and
brooklyn center, show of force with curfews, tear gas and flash bangs. take all the footage before last summer, since and now. take all that and look for a moment at utter inversion of what happened on the steps of the capitol in january. there was hardly any police presence at all. i mean there were officers there, right? covered multiple protests in washington and tends to be a lot of cops around when people are protesting particularly on the mall and capitol. but january 6th, almost no one there. don't have the big wraps and huge bits of equipment, little stanchions in front of them look like bike racks. but not just fortifying, but notable in the interactions with police with the people. who is doing intimidating, who is ordering who around in those
interactions? during the insurrection, it is the overwhelmingly white mob telling the cops what to do, barking orders at them. it is the mob with the authority. it is the mob that has the cops trying to cajole, negotiate with the rioters. can hardly blame them, they're outnumbered, in physical danger, right? but fact it got to that point, fact it got to that point is what's so shocking. >> any chance i could get you guys to leave the senate wing? >> i'm been making sure not disrespecting the place. >> just want to let you guys know, this is like the sacredest place. >> any chance i can get you guys to leave the capitol? i mean -- how many black folks in this country have been pulled over for taillight, air freshener, how many get that as
opening line of the officer? police officer gently asking insurrectionists to leave the senate chamber? this is the attitude despite hundreds of people at that moment invading in an attempt to subvert the transfer of power. 150 police officers were injured, eyes gouged, beaten, tased and concussed and threatened with their own guns. despite all that, one discharge of a weapon as far as we know and fair warning, it's disturbing to watch. tragic shooting and killer of rioter ashli babbitt at moment she was about to bust through a broken window with hundreds of screaming and angry people behind her. beating down the window, steps from the chamber that contained members of the congress, as last resort officer with a gun fired one shot and killed her.
today the justice department said it will not file charges against the officer who shot babbitt, and it is awful she is dead. think about the standard of the use of force here. think about the use of that weapon, the conceptions of fear. and if those conceptions of fear and authority of domination and subservience, those that apply to daunte wright and george floyd and millions of people of color who have dealt with police encounters, imagine if that had been brought to bear in the capitol, it would have been a massacre. if you brought that to bear it never would have happened because the police would have been armed and ready for riot like they were at vigil for elijah mcclain. that's what we're learning from the devastating new report about the january 6th insurrection by
the inspector general. capitol police warned three days before the riot of the threat. unlike previous post election protests, targets are not the counterprotesters but congress itself is a target on the 6th. inspector general quoted the warning as saying stop the steal's propensity to attract white supremacists and militia members lead to -- they were warned and didn't prepare the way they prepare for just about every protest we've seen police at because of the racialized suspicion at heart of it. conception of who is a criminal, who is a threat. who will transgress order, needs to be managed and control is so
deeply embedded you can't separate from concept of american law and policing. just saw the starkest example we've seen. watched people break in, lawlessly, violently, recklessly stroll through the capitol, walk away with no arrests, no handcuffs. single shot fired, woman killed among hundreds and hundreds of people. everyone in country has watched the two standards in front of our own eyes. member of the city council and justice correspondent for the nation join me now. who is to be feared and criminal and who the police force should be deployed against is not new but can't watch any of this right now and not think about the 6th, how about you? >> chris, welcome to my life for
45 years, right? sad reality this is the country that white people want, a majority of white people want. people that white people vote for, judges that majority of white people support. we know it's majority of white people want it, whenever there is a movement, moment, opportunity, law, legislation, a case, a chance to change it, majority of white people resist. that's how we know this is what a majority of white people want. we might find here and there a couple of individuals that white people are willing to throw overboard and abandon, derek chauvin might be one such individual that people are willing to be done with and
pretend he's a bad apple or rogue agent. but when it comes to the systemic issues and systemic change we need in the society, a majority of white people resist that change. i can therefore only infer that a majority of white people like it this way. they want the permissiveness of white violence and over-the-top crackdown on black violence. >> councilman, i wonder if anything has changed in your city in your personal interactions with the police or how they're in the streets now in fraught moment of the protests. >> i think in the last year or so, there's been a lot of reason to hope and be hopeful about change in minneapolis, but i think that by and large we're seeing that even as local
elected officials want to move away from militarized police force, status quo is saying no, we're doubling down, tripling down. mayor of brooklyn center, i know him pretty well, he thinks use of tear gas is inhumane. what does the sheriff do and governor approve? what is operation safety net? supposed to be the response to the trial but now deployed against citizens here and throughout the metro, they dump tear gas on residents without his permission. council has felt the same way. i think there is still a battle that we're looking to win here about how we keep our neighbors safe in this kind of environment, but i would say as it stands right now, seeing who is on the wrong side of that. governor brag about the largest police presence towards these
protesters. he's bragging about that. the mayor of minneapolis is actually one of the people at helm of operation safety net who is doing this to brooklyn center residents against the request of the brooklyn center mayor. and i think that's a shame. and i'm disgusted by it. >> let me ask -- elie let me argue against myself and like you two to respond as well. comparison i offered could say january 6th shows precisely the problem with not taking crowd control seriously, right? object lesson until you show sufficient force, show up with shields and gear and tear gas and all that stuff, very quickly a crowd can overtake law enforcement, can wreak havoc and lead to all sorts of awful things, right?
that's the lesson here. why are you mad that police are showing this or trying to maintain control of crowds when you're mad they didn't do that on the capitol? >> two points to that. first of all, as we saw at capitol, took one shot, not a tank, not air drop, one shot to make those people who were rabid and willing to go attack congresspeople, one shot to make them back up. that's how force needs to be used. one shot, don't need over militarization. i've said this a lot. my goal as person who cares about social justice, a race man, person who wants to see my race treated well in this country, my goal is not bring white people down to the level of law enforcement that black people have to face. that would be horrible.
i wouldn't wish a white cop on my worst enemy. i don't want that. what i want to do is lift black people up to the level that's been enjoyed by white men in this country since 1797. that's the goal. it's not that i want more shooting at the capitol, i want less shooting, tear gas and violence on our streets. >> council member? >> you got to look at intention of the group that showed up to the different protests. you have folks at the elijah mcclain protest playing violins, folks at capitol looking to undermine democracy. you can tell by intention of the crowd what response you might need. i've never seen this kind of force result in control, i've never seen this kind of force result in outcomes that folks are saying they're trying to
prevent. businesses still get windows broken, and i would argue it's usually after tear gas has been dumped, after the well fortified buildings and police inside them have pushed people into the unprotected neighbors and commercial corridors they're desperately claiming to want to protect. this force contributes to the chaos, 1 plus 2 equals 3. that simple. if we want a different result, we have to do something differently. and at least in metro area, in minneapolis, i don't see will from the state and city top leaders to do anything different. >> thank you both. appreciate that. officer who shot and killed daunte wright was arrested and charged with second degree manslaughter. lawyer for the wright family
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police officer who shot and killed daunte wright was arrested and taken into custody on charge of second degree manslaughter. released after posting $100,000 bond. charge comes a day after her and the brooklyn center police chief resigned. learning on sunday potter was training other officers whether they pulled daunte wright's car over. and tried to arrest him for outstanding warrant, wright appeared to try to get back in his car. she shouted taser, taser, taser, then fired her gun once, killing him. joining me now, attorney who represents daunte wright and george floyd. how is the wright family doing? i know must be unimaginable grief but can you give us an update? >> they're shellshocked, right?
go from living ordinary day-to-day life to having one of the if not the worst thing that could possibly happen to parents to all of a sudden the entire world really descending upon them. so i think that they're trying to get their feet under them. you know, not even close are they really to place to being able to process all the feelings of grief and anger at this point. >> yeah, i can -- in my experience covering these situations, really is a brutal thing to juggle emotionally, grief, intense loss and the attention of cameras and reporters and all that. what is your view, the family's view of the developments insofar as the officer being charged? >> obviously we all believe the officer should have been charged, and the officer being charged is a good initial step
towards justice. but that's a long road ahead, and while we talk about wanting to achieve whole justice, or close as we can get in terms of criminal convictions or civil resolutions, nothing can bring the wrights' son back, right? their family member, father back. so it's nice, you know, it should happen, should really be a no-brainer. but when we see officers charged we almost get over excited as if we've made some sort of giant leap forward, but instead, as your prior guests talked about tonight, we're really just taking steps that are equal. this is how the response should be. >> what is your response to learning that the officer in
question was training on the day this happened? i think as far as we know, in the moment this happened, officer by her own account mistook her taser for gun, gun for taser, been on the force 20 years and is training people? >> i think for all of us, we hear this term accident, and this wasn't an accident. there were numerous amount of intentional actions here. and it starts with what i believe was an intentional act of training. that training was how to make pretextual stops right? there's a lot of discovery left to be had in this case, only minimal amount of information has been shared with us and the world thus far. but for all the reasons we heard this stop took place, every one
of us knows it's a classic pretext and that's what they were teaching their officers. >> great point. makes more sense in context of training, training in pretextual traffic stop. you have experience in this area, represented david smith who died in minneapolis police custody about a decade ago after being both tased and kneeled on if i'm not mistaken. tell me about that case and what has or hasn't come out of that case ten years ago. >> you know, it's just -- the feelings of deja vu are such a gut punch for people who have been involved. myself having been involved in three of these cases and the smith family having to relive their brother's death each time something like this happens. in that case david smith was a young man killed in a hauntingly
similar fashion to george floyd. and it was at a time where people were not paying as much attention to these events, and people tell me well, maybe if there had been video then -- well there was. people can find it on the internet of david smith being mechanically asphyxiated in similar way to george floyd, and when the team resolved the case in 2013, the city of minneapolis agreed it would provide training to all of its officers in 2014 on positional asphyxiation. >> wow. >> obviously entire world has learned that that training, to the extent it happened, obviously didn't stick. >> jeff storms, one of the attorneys for daunte wright's family, thanks for making time tonight. >> thank you for having me.
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i'm now the fourth united states president to preside over american troop presence in afghanistan. two republicans, two democrats. i will not pass this responsibility on to a fifth. i concluded it's time to end america's longest war. it's time for american troops to come home. >> today president joe biden officially announced his plan to withdraw all remaining u.s. troops from afghanistan in time for the 20th anniversary of the september 11 attacks this fall. long time coming, very beginning of the war through 20 years, leaders signaled end is around the corner, talked about afghan government being responsibility for their security to pulling
out troops. >> we're at point where we clearly have moved from major combat activity to a period of stability and stabilization and reconstruction. >> peace will be achieved by helping afghanistan develop its own stable government. peace will be achieved by helping afghanistan train and develop its own national army. >> starting next month we will be able to remove 10,000 of our troops from afghanistan by the end of this year. and we'll bring home a total of 33,000 troops by next summer. reductions will continue at steady pace with more and more of our troops coming home. as our coalition agreed, by the end of 2014, afghans will be fully responsible for the security of their country. >> we're working to finally end america's longest war and bring our troops back home. we're bringing them back home. we're almost finished in afghanistan coming in, we're
dealing -- we're down to a small number, coming home by end of the year. >> is it really going to happen this time? finally see the end of america's longest war? retired united states arm ranger, served in afghanistan, talking to me now. >> seen a lot of folks who served there expressing how they feel today. whether they support the decision or not, brings up a lot of emotions for folks that have been there. how about you? >> certainly emotional thought to think about the end of this war. first of all, i agree with president biden it is time to bring our men and women home but we have to do so in responsible way, in coordination with nato allies. with just as many troops as we have there or more, we have to protect troops in the process.
for those who fought and lost friends there, there's a part of our heart in afghanistan. many of us left parts of ourselves in that country. we want to do it in the right way but it is time to do what is necessary. as your video montage showed, american people have heard every promise, iteration and plan. if there was military way out of it or way to solve it, would have found it a long time ago, we have to do what we need to do, but do it right. >> you partnered with congresswoman cheney to oppose total withdrawal in the national defense authorization act a few years back. how has your thinking changed? >> i wasn't opposing a withdrawal actually, amendment wasn't opposing withdrawal but saying if administration was going to withdraw they had to engage with congress in that process. they had to make assessments of
important things like the protection of women and children, protection of our forces, engagement of our allies, consult with congress and make assessments of those things. we did that because the trump administration was not consulting with congress but they were ignoring us because they wanted to do whatever they wanted without consulting the american people. but this is not any one administration's war, it's war borne by the american people. they've borne the brunt of this. sons and daughters, mothers and fathers, brothers and sisters doing fighting and dying in the war and should have a say in ending it in responsible way. that's what that was about. we're in a different position with president biden, consulting with congress. >> note that the afghan people have borne the brunt more than the u.s. in many ways, the sheer number of deaths, tens of
thousands of civilian casualties, entire country in state of war for 20 years and longer than that. i know that's something you feel strongly about, providing special visas to translators, but more broadly the question of the u.s. letting in people from afghanistan or other places that are war-torn. are we doing enough for folks in afghanistan that worked with u.s. forces and are trying to come to this country? >> the answer is undoubtedly no, we're not doing enough. there's a huge backlog of special immigrant visa immigration requests now. afghans at great risk to themselves and their families, many of whom have died serving alongside american soldiers, people we made promises to. if you serve with us, protect us, serve as translator, help maintain a u.s. base, we'll take
care of you and your family. we have an obligation to those folks. if we pull out and leave those people behind, that's on us, we have to live with that. i'm going to make sure we're not turning our backs on those folks, but keeping promises and protecting as many as we can. i'm going to work really hard with the administration over next six months to do so. >> the "atlantic" had a good piece on the immigrant visas. siv disappear into bureaucratic black holes often for two or three years, approval by embassy is beginning of ordeal that can take months of time. what is the solution? beefing up resources to process these in timely, orderly fashion? >> it is largely resources, chris. it's money and personnel. there's a backlog, we have a system in place to do this but
requires embassy personnel to process the requests and importantly, military commanders to certify eligibility for siv applications. military commander has to submit a certification for letter, and that's one of the things i'm worried about, rapidly defraud -- draw the forces down, they're going to return home and we won't have the commanders to certify the applications. we have to move aggressively to address the backlog and put resources behind this system so we don't leave them behind. >> that's key point. part of the paperwork requires u.s. forces present. if they're not present, you can't get the thing. that has to be a priority. congressman jason crow, who served in afghanistan, now in congress, thanks so much. >> thanks chris. trifecta of cancel culture
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have you noticed there's a lot of confusion in the air about what exactly the first amendment does or does the no protect. as lots on the right pretend to be outraged on incursions on first amendment and speech and so-called woke mobs. josh hawley backed a plot to overturn the democratic election, lost his book deal. quickly got another company. but company decided as they are constitutionally allowed to do in free country not to publish his back after he chose to get involved in the events of january 6th and voted to overturn the election.
and when that happened, josh hawley, who loves to whine, one of his favorite things to do, and the right cried censorship. that's not censorship, private actors have some control over speech but that's private actor making private choice in private sphere. saying we're not going to publish your book is not censorship. ironically but predictably most frontal assault on first amendment protections and political action is coming from precisely the people whining most about this supposed problem. josh hawley and mike lee and ted cruz. major league baseball, a private business, decided to move all-star game out of georgia in protest of that state's new restrictive voting law. again, i think we can all agree, major league baseball has the right to do that. that's core constitutionally protected activity.
can put their games where they want and move them for political purposes if they want to. what the first amendment does not allow is for the government to punish them for that speech. don't want a situation with tax code, tax rate 25% but companies that express this political view, it's 30%. can't do that. discrimination by the government using tax code or anything else as punishment or coercion is explicitly not allowed in first amendment jurisprudence for good reason. yet these senators with fancy degrees from fancy law schools, former supreme court clerks, fancy as you get in the law world, are going to make baseball pay. you see, they've just introduced a bill to take away the league's antitrust exemption. which again might be perfectly
good thing to do on the merits, i'm not sure baseball should have antitrust protection, i don't know. but you can't take that away as punishment for moving the all-star game because you think they're too woke. can't do it. flatly authoritarian, flatly a violation of the first amendment. yet here they are, the greet speech crusaders who whine about censorship from the mob, defenders from censorship explicitly saying we're going to use government force to go in and coerce and punish this political speech we object to. tells you everything you need to know about how legitimate those concerns are and whether it's about any principle whatsoever or just raw excursion of power. coming up, latest in the matt gaetz investigation, including news that investigators have had his phone
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back in february "the intercept" reported within hours of the trump assault on the capitol, the fbi received thousands of text messages. congressman matt gaetz wrote, this story is jaw dropping, we should hold hearings at the house. there's all sorts of reasons to worry about the fbi overreach and spying on members of congress for sure. but it turns out congressman gaetz has a very personal interest in the government seizing phone data. as you probably know by now, gaetz is facing a federal investigation related to possible sex trafficking of a 17-year-old girl as well as into whether he and his associates paid women for sex. he maintains he never had sex with an underage girl, never paid for sex, and never did anything illegal. politico reported sometime this winter federal amendments
executed a search warrant and seized matt gaetz's iphone, who proceeded to change his phone number in december, probably a good idea. that was not the only gaetz story that dropped last night. "the new york times" reporting the congressman's associate joel greenberg, the former county tax collector facing 33 federal charges, has been cooperating with the justice department since last year including about matt gaetz's activities. here with the latest is katy benner of "the new york times." katy, you're a reporter on the justice department beat so you report on investigations a lot. and i guess my takeaway from the reporting is like, this is some real serious stuff, doesn't mean he's guilty, doesn't mean there will be charges, but if there
were your best friend telling you this, you would be worried for them. >> it's a worrisome investigation to be sure. i think one of the things we should be looking at is the timeline. we know investigators have been to go mr. greenberg for about four months, learning as much as they can from him. he's not what you would call a truthful person, as you can see from the indictment. he's lied before, there's no reason for investigators to believe anything he's ever said. so they start to gather evidence, including at least two key cellphones we know of, one from mr. gaetz and one from mr. gaetz's girlfriend. they did that at the end of last year. they can verify some of the things that greenberg told them. they can see whether or not they discuss it and whether or not they had any worries about that investigation. >> so the phone seizure here, i want to take a step back and think of this through the prism of bureaucratic and
institutional politics. we're talking about a phone seizure of a sitting congressman who is a stalwart ally of the president, under a justice department being run by bill barr. like, that's -- i mean, in any justice department, showing up and saying we're serving you a search warrant, congressman, on your phone, is going to be a big deal. that's a big deal. >> these are serious moves. but keep in mind they don't always end in charges. the last time we publicly know this happened is when senator burr's phone was seized around the investigation into stock price manipulation and the coronavirus. he was one of a handful of senators investigated for whether or not he used inside information about the coronavirus to trade on stocks. he ultimately was not charged and he was cleared. so while seizing a phone shows it could be serious, it doesn't necessarily indicate guilt. >> that's a good point. there's a distinction that's probably working talking about, the legal severity, the political fallout, and the ethical severity, which is, one
core would be paying women who are adults for sex, which is illegal. the other would be paying a minor. those are both being investigated, do i understand that correctly? >> yes, so paying a minor for sex or giving a minor anything of value, it doesn't have to be money, it could be food, it could be drugs, it could be a hotel room, that is a federal crime that comes with a ten-year mandatory minimum, it's extremely serious. if you're paying an adult for sex, that's not a federal crime, that's a state crime, the justice department would not charge that. if you're paying adults with something of value but also forcing them to have sex, they're having sex for fraudulent reasons, they're being coerced, that's something the justice department is looking into. we don't yet have evidence that that has happened. >> it seems to me there are a number of characters here in
florida politics. so you've got this republican official, right, mr. greenberg, you've got gaetz, you've got reporting in "the new york times" and other outlets about a trip to the bahamas with a hand surgeon and marijuana impresario who is close to governor ron desantis. there is another florida republican official who shows up here. so it also strikes me there is some political exposure broadly among florida republicans right now as they're viewing this investigation going forward. >> absolutely. so we know that one of the things the investigators have been told about is the idea that, you know, congressman gaetz has spoken with others about key senate races in florida and whether or not there is any political chicanery going on there. but keep in mind, again, congressman gaetz is in an extremely safe district. and this is also a local florida political story as much as it's a national story. and these are not people who really are risking, you know, being cast out of politics, being cast out of their lobbying
work because of this scandal. in fact congressman gaetz, i mean, if he is not indicted, i don't see a way in which he would lose an election in this district. he's still extremely popular. while there are moral implications, and all of this creates an important national conversation about what it means to be a good member of congress and a good member of the house, that doesn't mean congressman gaetz would ever lose an election. >> yeah, i don't think he would lose if he were indicted, we've seen that play out. >> absolutely. >> yeah, in a number of cases. do we know the timing of the phone and the pardon ask? because that seems like i got winter in the story, and i don't know if -- like, it just seems like if you've had your phone seized and you're like, what about a pardon, it looks like maybe you knew something was up. >> yeah, you know, so in our reporting, we feel those things happened very close together but i wouldn't want to say which happened first per se. but they were near the end of the year last year.
but to your point about being indicted and still running, we have to remember the case against new jersey senator menendez. that's a really important case to look at because he was indicted and he ultimately was exonerated. so yes, to your point, you can be indicted and still win elections. >> that's right. he was indicted, defended himself, he was not convicted, he is a u.s. senator in good standing. katy benner, great reporting, thank you so much. "the rachel maddow show" starts right now. good evening, rachel. >> good evening, chris. protesters are expected tonight for a fourth straight evening. this is all happening after a 20-year-old man named daunte wright was shot and killed by a brooklyn center police officer during a traffic stop on sunday. that officer resigned from the force yesterday, as did the police chief in brooklyn center. today, state prosecutors arrested the