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tv   All In With Chris Hayes  MSNBC  April 15, 2021 12:00am-1:00am PDT

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fighter with its forward stabilizing fans. it was also pointed out today, that's not even a local of the air force reserve. this is, at least the air force reserve here in the united states. we're sandy hyde-smith, who has since taken down the tweet and replaced it, serves in the united states senate. that's our broadcast for this wednesday night. with our thanks for being here with us. on behalf of all my colleagues at the networks of nbc news, goodnight. >> tonight, on all in. as police mobilize against protests in minnesota. a damning new report shows the capitol police knew a violent mob was coming on january six and chose not to act. tonight, americans selective use of the full force of the state. then, new manslaughter charges and arrests. the police officer who shot dante right.
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they attorney for the right family joins me right live. plus, new revelations and fresh trouble for gates a. mid reports feds have sees his cell phone. and it's an announcement 20 years in the making. >> it's time to end america's longest war. it's time for american troops to come home. afghanistan veteran turn congressman jason crow and the president's decision to end our longest war. went all in starts right now. >> good evening from new york i'm chris hayes today with a wrenching day in minneapolis where the trial of former police officer derek chauvin continues. as his lawyers put forward the defense for the killing of george floyd. all the while, in the streets, people are out warning. angry, protesting, chanting, promised ties about the police shooting and killing of daunte wright just a few miles away. and all of this happening as we approach the one year anniversary of george floyd's
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death. the inescapable context to this is not just floyd's death. it is the aftermath of that death and the protests and the police response to those protests. and it is also in this capably what happened on january six at the u.s. capital. and taking all this together is very hard not to see some fundamental contradiction in how our country, the state, wields force against citizens. in terms of who has authority and who defers to whom in a police encounter. and who in the end fears home. the case of george floyd, derek chauvin's defense is centered around floyd being a threat. a figure so fearsome, so terrifying and unruly, that he had to be subdued and knelt on for more than nine minutes. long after he took his last breath. in their case, that is how dangerous he was. how terrifying he was. and you hear that a lot. police officers, they shoot
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civilians. they were scared. the case of daunte wright, we have a 20-year-old man who was pulled over for an expired registration, before officers discovered he had a warrant for his arrest. daunte wright was treated roughly. manhandled a bit. he was handcuffed. he was ordered around like a subsequent in a way that is fundamentally invasive and indicative. it's not enjoyable if you've ever been on the other end of that kind of interaction. when he attempted to get out of that situation, he was shot and killed at a point blank range by an officer who says, she mistook her gun for a taser. everything about that interaction. everything about the george floyd interaction. the police are the ones with the authority, the control. they have the weapons on their side. they have the authority of the government. and in both cases, they let both those men know they are in charge. that same dynamic plays out in
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so many of the protest we see right after these killings. with these enormous shows of police force. you remember elijah mcclain, the 23-year-old black man who died after police restrain him with a chokehold. who begged it, because he was an introvert who hadn't done anything wrong. his death got new attention last summer, following george floyd's killing. and when people congregate it to hold a peaceful vigil in his memory this is how the police in aurora, colorado, responded. ♪ ♪ ♪ >> no, no, no! no! no? >> they stormed right into a peaceful vigil and ended up pepper spraying unarmed mourners, at an event commemorating the life of cut someone killed by police. now this example is it a bad
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one, this happened last summer, in the middle of the largest civil rights protests against police brutality in modern history. literally, millions of people participating in every seat in the nation. and it is true, we should be clear, that there are examples, documented by video, of violence by those and other protesters. examples of lawlessness and property damage throughout the country, in the context of tens of thousands of protests. but in that context, only a very small percentage of people were violent. and yet, the police prepare prepared and prepared, for those protests. like they were going to war. i mean, pick the city, buffalo, new york city, denver, portland, atlanta -- wherever, they look like. that they look like they're going to war. they have shields. they have big equipment. and they do that because they want to let people protesting know who is in charge.
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who holds the authority. who will bend the need to whom. that's the point. explicitly. it's a psychological performance. >> that's what we saw in the streets of minneapolis and brooklyn center, a show of force with curfews and tear gas. flashbacks. and now just take all of that footage we've seen. before last summer, during last summer, and since, and now. take all of that. and just look for a moment at the utter in version of what happened on the steps of the capital in january. there was hardly any police presence at all. i mean, there are officers there, right? i've covered multiple protests in washington. there tends to be a lot of cops around. particularly on the mall, on the capital. but on january six, there was relatively speaking, no one there. they don't have the big man huge fits of equipment brought
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in. they have little bike racks. but it's not just the actual fortifying of the president. it's notable the interactions of the police with a. people again, who's doing the intimidating? who is ordering whom around in that interaction? during the insurrection, it is the overwhelmingly white mob telling the cops what to do. barking orders at them. it is the mob with the authority. it is the mauve that has the cops trying to control and negotiate with the rioters. you can hardly blame them, they're outnumbered, in physical danger. right? . but the fact that i got to that point. the fact that they got to that point is what's so shocking. >> any chance i could get you guys to leave? >> and just inspected the. place >> i just want to let you guys know, you shouldn't be here. >> any chance i get you guys to leave? the capital?
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>> i mean, how many black folks in this country get pulled over for a taillight, air freshener? how many get that as the opening line of the officer? a police officer gently asking insurrectionists to leave the senate chamber. this is the attitude, despite the fact there are hundreds of people violently invading the center of american democracy, and then explicit attempted to deliver the peaceful transfer of power. despite the attend that police officers were injured. cops were beaten and tased and crushed and coughed, and threatened to be shot with her own guns. and despite all that, there was one discharge of a weapon, as far as we know. and fear war hitting -- the tragic shooting and killing of rioter ashley babbitt. at the moment she was about to bust through a broken window, with hundreds upon hundreds, screaming angry people behind
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her. steps from the chamber that contained, at that moment, actual members of congress. and in that moment, as a last resort, that officer there, with a gun fired one shot. and he killed her. today, the justice department said it would not fall charges against the officer who shot babbitt. and it is awful that she is dead. think about the standard of the use of force. think about the use of that weapon. think about the conceptions of fear. and if those conceptions of fear and authority, of domination and subservience, to those that apply to daunte wright and george floyd, and millions of people of color who've dealt with these encounters, imagine if i have been brought to bear on that crowd in the capital. it would have been a massacre. of course, if he brought that to bear it never would've happened. because the police would have been armed and ready for a riot. like they were at the vigil for
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elijah mcclain. and in fact, that is philosophically what we are learning from the devastating new report about the january 6th insurrection, by the capitol police inspector general. the report finds the capitol police were warned three days before. quote, unlike previous election protest the target of the pro trump supporters are not necessarily the counter protesters as they were previously, but rather congress itself is the target on the sixth. the specter general quoted the intelligence warning essay, stop the steal propensity to attract white supremacists, militia members and others who actively promote violence, may lead to significantly dangerous situation for law enforcement and the general public alike. they were specifically warned and they did not prepare. they did not prepare the way they prepare for just about every protests we've seen police at. and that is because of the racial ice suspicion and the
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conception of who is a criminal, and the conception of who is a threat. and this trust perception of who has to be managed and controlled is so deeply embedded in both american safety and law enforcement. you cannot separate race from that, in the context american law and police. and we've just seen the starkest example of ever seen. we all sat back and watched. we watched people break in, lawless, violently, recklessly, the capital. and then, walk away with no arrests, no handcuffs. single shot fired. a wound killed. among the hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of people. everyone in this country is now watching, these two standards in front of our own eyes. jeremiah ellison and elie joins me now. elie, i guess the different standards and conceptions of who is to be feared and suspicious and criminal.
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and who the police force should be deployed against it is not new. by just cannot watch any of this right now and not think about the sixth? how about you? >> i mean, chris welcome to my life for 42 years. right? the sad reality is that this is the country that white people want. that a majority of white people want. these are the people that a majority of white people vote for. these are the standards that a majority of white people are comfortable with. these are the judges that a majority of white people support. and we know that this is happening because the majority of white people want it. because whenever there is a movement a moment, an opportunity, a law, a legislation, a tape, a chance, to change it a majority of white people resist it? that's how we know that this is what the majority of white people want. now, we might find here and there, a couple of individuals
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-- that white people are willing to throw overboard. derek chauvin might be one such individual that people are willing to be done with and pretend like he is a bad apple. or a rogue agent. but when it comes to the systemic issue. and when it comes to the systemic change that we need in society, a majority of white people resist that change. i can therefore only infer, that a majority of white people like it this week. they want the persistence of white violence. and they want the over to the top crackdown on black bodies. >> councilman ellison, i wonder if anything has changed in your city? in your own personal interactions with police? or how the police are out there in the streets right now, in this very fraught moment of the protests? >> i think in the last year or
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so, there's been a lot of reason to hope and be hopeful about change in minneapolis. but i think that by and large, we are seeing that even as we want to move away from this militarized police force, the status quo is saying, no we're doubling down. or tripling down. you have the mayor of brooklyn center, and i know him pretty well, saying that he thinks the use of tear gas is inhumane. and what it does the sheriff do? what is the governor approve? what is operation safety net, which is the most supposed to be the response to trump, is now being deployed against a sincere and throughout the metro -- they dump tear graph gas on the residents, without his permission. you know, the council -- i think that there is still a battle that we're looking to win here about how we keep our neighbors safe in this kind of environment.
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by would say, as it stands right now, you're seeing who is on the wrong side of that. you're seeing the governor brag about the largest police presence, towards these protesters. he's bragging about that. the mayor of minneapolis is actually one of the people at the helm of operation safety net. who is doing this to brooklyn center residents, against the request of the brooklyn center mere. and i think that is a shame. and i am disgusted by it. >> elie, let me argue against myself, and i want you to respond it to it -- which is in the comparison i offer, right? you could say that look, january six shows precisely the problem with not taking crowd control seriously. right? that it was in lesson that unless you show sufficient force, that unless you show up
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with shields and gear and tear gas, and all that stuff -- very quickly a crowd can overtake law enforcement. can wreak havoc and lead to all sorts of awful things. right? and that's actually the lesson here. so, why are you mad that police are showing this, or trying to maintain control of crowds. when you're mad they didn't do that at the capitol? >> yes, so two points to that. first of all, as we saw, the capital it took one shot. it didn't take a tank, it didn't take an airdrop. it took one shot to make those people, who are rabid, and willing to go attack congresspeople, it took one shot to make them back up. and that is how force needs to be used. one shot. you don't need to overload the situation. number two, and that says a lot. my goal as a person who cares about social justice. as a race man, as a person who
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wants to see my race treated well in this country -- my goal is not to bring white people down to the level of line forsman, that people have been. that would be horrible! i wouldn't wish a white cop on my worst enemy. i don't want that. what i want to do is lift pick black people up to the level that has been enjoyed by white men in this country since 1797. that is the goal. so it's not that i want more shooting at the capitol and january six. i want less suiting and less tear gas unless violence on us. >> council member, what do you say? >> i would say that,. the allied in the claim protests playing violence. you have folks at the capitol looking to undermine democracy. you could tell by the interest of the crowd what kind of response you might need.
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i would say this, i've never seen a good kind of results force result in control. i've never seen this kind of force result in the outcome that folks are saying they're trying to prevent, right? businesses still get their windows broken. and i would argue, that it's usually after tear gas has been dumped. it's usually after four or five buildings and the police inside them have pushed people into these unprotected neighborhoods. and commercial corridors, that they're so desperately claiming they want to protect. it's usually after the use that kind of force that the chaos starts. this kind of force continue tribute to the. chaos it's one plus two equals three. it is that simple. and if we want to have a different result, we are going to have to do something differently. right now, at least in the metro area, at least in minneapolis, i don't see the will from the state in the city's top leaders to do anything different. >> jeremy ellison councilman are there thank you both we
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really appreciate it. >> the officer who shot and killed dante wright was arrested today in charge with secondary manslaughter. as protesters take to the streets again tonight in brooklyn center minnesota, the lawyer for the right family joins me for an exclusive interview next. iew next more cleaning power! it dissolves fast to start cleaning sooner, releasing the soaking power of dawn. then cascade's food-seeking enzymes latch on and break down food into particles so small they can flow right down the drain. and it's powerful enough for the quick-wash cycle! new cascade platinum with 50% more cleaning power! the #1 brand just got better! is skincare from around the world better than olay? olay regenerist faced 131 premium products,
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than one week, in less than a week, the district attorney
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made the decision, that we will charge this officer and the family of dante right, we'll get to have their day in court. >> kim potter the former minnesota police officer who shot and killed dante wright, was arrested, taken into custody this morning on a charge of second degree manslaughter. she was released within the last hour after posting 100,000-dollar bond. the charge, comes a day after both her and the brooklyn center chief responded. we're learning that on sunday potter was training other officers, when they pulled dante's car over. when she tried to arrest him for outstanding warrants, she appeared to try to get back in his car, she shouted taser, taser, taser and then fired her gone once into dante's chest, killing him. joining me now is civil rights attorney who represents the families of both dante wright and george floyd. let me start first, with how
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the right family is, doing i know they must be an unimaginable grief. can you give us an update of how things are? >> they're shell-shocked right. you go from living, your ordinary day-to-day life, to than having one of if not the worst thing that could possibly happen to a parent, to all the sudden the entire world really the sending upon them. i think they are trying to get their feet under them, they're not even close to a place to being able to process, the feelings of grief and anger at this point. i can imagine. in my experience covering these situations, it really is a brutal thing to juggle emotionally. both the grief and the intense sense of loss and then the attention, of cameras and reporters and all of that. what is your view, the families view about the developments in
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so far as the officer involved being charged? >> obviously, we all believe the officers should have been charged, and the officer being charged, is a good initial step towards justice. but, that's a long road ahead, and well we talk about wanting to achieve justice, or is close to that is we can get, in terms of criminal convictions, or civil resolutions, nothing can bring their son back. their family member, back their father back, so it's nice, it should happen, it should be a no-brainer. but i think when we see officers charged, we almost get over excited, that we've made some sort of giant leap forward. but instead, your prior guest
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talked about it tonight, we're really just taking steps that are equal. this is how the response should be. >> what is your response to learning that the officer in question was training on the day this happened. i think actually as far as we know, the moment this happened, an officer by her own account mistook her taser for her, gun her gun for her taser, who has been under force for 20 years, and is training people. >> i think for all of us, i think we hear this term accident in, this was not an accident. there were numerous amounts of intentional actions here, it is starts with what i believe, was an intentional act of training, in that training was how to make pretextual stops. obviously there's a lot of discovery left to be had in
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this case. only with minimal information has been shared with us and the world thus far. but for all the reasons we've heard, that this stop took place, every one of us knows that it's a classic pretext, and that's what they were teaching their officers. >> that's a great point that makes more sense than the context of the training, that this is context in a pretextual traffic stop. you actually have some experience in this area, you represented a man-made david smith who died in minneapolis police custody. i think it was about a decade ago. after being both tased and the kneeled on, if i'm not mistaken. tell me about that case and what has come out of that case, or what has not come out of that case from ten years ago. >> the feelings of déjà vu are such a gut punch. for people who have been involved, and now myself having been involved in three of these cases, and then dismiss family
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having to relive their brother's death, each time something like this happens. in so in that case david smith, was a young man who was killed in just a hauntingly similar fashion, to george floyd. it was at a time when people were not paying as much attention to these events, and people tell me, well maybe if there had been video that, while there was. people can find the video on the internet of david smith being mechanically asphyxiated in a similar way to george floyd. and when the team resolved the case, back in 2013, the city of minneapolis, agreed that it would provide training to all of its officers in 2014 on is fixed evasion. obviously, the entire world has learned, that that training, to the extent it happened,
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obviously did not stick. >> jeff storms one of the attorneys for dante raids families, thank you so much for making time tonight. >> thank you for having me, i appreciated. >> the president just announced the beginning into the end of the longest war in this nation's history, that's next. , that's next. , that's next. its water-based formula safely penetrates fabrics where odors hide. spray it on your rugs, your curtains, your furniture, all over your home to make it part of your tidying up routine. febreze fabric refresher, for an all-over freshness you'll love.
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hi mom, ready for your shot? yes, i've been waiting for this day. we just got what? vaccinated. we just got vaccinated! let's get you there. >> i'm now the fourth united let's get to immunity. states president to preside over american troop presence in afghanistan. to republicans, to democrats. i will not pass this responsibility on to a fifth. i conclude that is time to end america's longest war. it's time for american troops to come home. >> today, president joe biden officially announced his plan to withdraw all remaining u.s. troops from afghanistan in time for the 20th anniversary of the september 11th attacks, this fall. it has been a long time coming. the very beginning of the war, it's been a whole 20 years. our leaders have signaled the
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end is just around the corner. as they talked of everything from the afghan gum government being responsible for their own security, for two pulling out troops. >> we're at a point where we clearly have moved from major combat activity to a period of stability and stabilization, and reconstruction. >> these will be achieved by helping afghanistan develop its own stable government. peace will be achieved by helping afghanistan freight train and develop its own national army. >> starting next month, we will be able to remove 10,000 of our troops from afghanistan by the end of this year. and we will bring home a total of 33,000 troops by next summer. reductions will continue at a step the pace, with more and more of our troops coming home. and our as our coalition agreed, by the end of 2014, the afghans will be fully responsible for the security of their country.
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>> we are working to finally end america's longest war and bring our troops back home. we're bringing them back home. we're almost finished and afghanistan. coming in. we're down to a small number, coming home by the end of the year. >> so is it really going to happen this time? where we finally end america's longest war? thank democratic congressman jason crow who served in athens can scan in 2004 2005, joins me now. for us, congressman i want to talk to someone who served there. i've seen a lot of folks that served their today expressing how they feel today. i think that people, whether they spore or don't support the decision, it brings up a lot of emotions for folks who have been there. how about you? >> yes, is certainly emotional thought to think about the end of this war. first of all, i agree with president biden that is time to bring our men and women home. but we have to do so in a
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responsible way. we have to do is so in a way with our nato allies. the troops that we have there, actually more than we have there to make store were protecting our troops in the process. before those of us who fought and lost friends, there is a part of our hearts that lives in afghanistan. and many of us left parts of ourselves in that country. we want to make sure that we are doing this in the right way. but it is time to do what is necessary. as your video montage showed. the american people have heard every promise, every iteration, every plant. that is a military way out of this. it's just time to do what we need to do. but we have to make sure we're doing it. right >> you previously partnered with congresswoman cheney to oppose any withdrawal, or with total withdrawal, the national defense authorization act, a few years back. how is your thinking changed? >> well, i wasn't opposed to
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withdrawal. the nba was an opposing withdrawal. but it is actually doing what the administration was going to withdraw but. they are glad to engage it with congress in that process. they had to make an assessment of certain important things, like the protection of women and children. the protection of our forces. the engagement of our allies. they have to consult with congress and make assessments of those things. and we did that because of the the trump administration was not involved. they were ignoring us, because they didn't want to engage. and they wanted to do whatever they want to do without talking to the american people. this is not anyone administrations war. this is a war that has been borne by the american people. they've borne the brunt of it. it's our sons and daughters, our mothers and fathers, brothers and sisters, that have been doing the fighting, and the dying in this war. and they should have a c making sure that we are ending in a responsible way. so that's what that provision was. about one of every different situation now with president biden. where he's consulting congress.
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doing it the way should be. done >> i feel like i should obviously, and you know this, the afghan people have borne the brunt of it more than the u.s. has, in many. ways the sheer number of deaths there. tens of thousands of civilian casualties. an entire country that has been a state of war for 20 years, longer than that. and i know that is something that you feel very strongly about, is providing special visas to those who served as translators. but there is more broadly the question of the u.s. letting him people from afghanistan. or other places our war torn. are we doing enough right now for the folks in afghanistan that worked with u.s. forces and are now trying to come to this country? t this country --
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american soldiers. people that we made promises to. we said if you serve with us, if you protected us, if you served as a translator. helping in 80 we will take care of you and your family. we have an obligation to those. folks and if we pull out over the next 5 to 6 months, and we leave those people behind, then that is on us. and we're going to have to live with that. so i'm going to make sure we're not turning our backs on those folks. and we keep our promises to them. and we're prey texting as many of them as we. can i'm going to work really hard with administration of the next six months to do. so >> yes, the atlantic had a good piece on the special immigrant visa. the suv, which is the category here that draws packer writing. in this applications disappear under bureaucratic black holes, often 4 to 3 years at a time. the initial application, if approved by the embassy, is just the beginning of an ordeal. that consume months of additional. time what's the solution here? is it just beefing up the
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resources to process these in a timely orderly fashion? >> it is largely resources, chris. money. and its personnel. there's a backlog. they actually have a system in place to do this. but it requires embassy personnel to process the requests. and importantly, it requires military commanders to certify eligibility for the siv application. the military commander has to submit a certification or letter saying this person served alongside. and that's one of the things i'm worried about. as we wrap things, these military commanders are going to return home. and the afghans that worked with them, are not going to have those commanders that are going to be there for those certifications. that's why we have to move very quickly in aggressively here. to make sure we are addressing the backlog. and putting the resources behind the systems, so we do not leave these folks. behind >> yes, that's a key point. right? part of the paperwork requires u.s. forces president, if they're not present. the paper just can't get the
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thing. so that has to be a priority, congressman. jason crow, served in afghanistan. now serving the united states. thank you so. much >> thanks, chris. up next, the trifecta of cancel culture warriors trying to cancel protections for major league baseball. and, new trouble for matt gaetz. have you heard that before? federal investigators get their hands on his phone. that's ahead. get relief with febreze.
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try align, the pros in digestive health. and join the align healthy gut team up and learn what millions of align users already know. how great a healthy gut can feel. sign up at alignprobiotics.com also try align dualbiotics gummies to help support digestive health. you know there's a lot of confusion in the air about what -- as lots of people on the right by incursions on the first amendment in free speech. remember the republican senator black the pot to overturn the election in lost his book deal. his publishing house decided, as they are constitutionally
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allowed to do in a free country, not to publish his book, after he chose to get involved in the events of january 6th and voted to overturn the election. and when that happened, josh hawley who really loves to wine, it's one of his favorite things to do, and the right, they all cried censorship. it's not really censorship. it's a private actors do have some control over siege, but a private actor making a private choice in a private sphere saying they're not gonna publish your book, is not really censorship. now somewhat ironically, but perhaps predictably, the most frontal assault on first amendment protection of speech is now coming from precisely the people, who are winding the most about this supposed problem. that would be people like senators josh hawley, in mike lee and ted cruz. you might have seen the news earlier this month that major league baseball, again, private business, decided to move its all-star game out of georgia in protest of that states new
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restrictive voting law. again, i think you can all agree, major league baseball has the right to do that. that is core constitutionally productive activity. they can put their games where they want to, and they can move games for political purposes if they want to. now what the first amendment does not, allow is for the government to punish them for that speech. think about it. we don't want a situation where we had a tax code that was say corporate tax rate 25% in companies that expressed this certain political view, we will make it 30%. you can't do that. that's discrimination by the government using the tax code or regulation or anything else as punishment for coercion for protective political activity, is explicitly not allowed in first amendment for good reason. and yet senators josh holiday and ted cruz and mike lee, olive very fancy vehicles from very fancy law schools, all three former supreme court
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clerks, which is as fancy as you get in the low world, they are going to make baseball pay. they've just introduced a bill, to take away the league's anti trust exemption. which again, might be a perfectly good thing to do, i'm not sure baseball should have antitrust production or no. but what you cannot do, is you cannot take that away as a punishment, for moving the all-star game, because you think there too -- can't do. it flatly authoritarian, flatly a violation of the first amendment. and yet here they are, the greek speech crusaders, the ones who wine incessantly about censorship, the great defenders against censorship. explicitly saying, we are going to use government force, to go in and coal hers and punish, this political speech that we object to. it tells you everything you need to know, about how legitimate those concerns are, in about weathers any sort of
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principle whatsoever or just about raw exertion of power. coming up, the latest in the matt gates investigation, including news that investigators have had his phone since december, yikes. that's next. next. next. est advanced gum restore. it's clinically proven to detoxify below the gum line, and it restores by helping heal gums in as little as seven days. because you can't have a healthy smile, without healthy gums. advanced gum restore from crest. the #1 toothpaste brand in america.
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the fbi seized thousands of cell phone records related to the attack. republican congressman matt gates saw that news and he was absolutely outraged, this story is jaw-dropping. we should hear how the house judiciary committee to review how the fbi was from gobbling up phone data of their critics. there's all sorts of reasons to worry about the fbi overreach, and spying on congress for sure, but it turns out that congressman gates has a very personal interest in the government is taking phone data, you probably know by now gates is facing a federal investigation relating to possible sex trafficking of his 17-year-old, girl as well as to whether he and associates paid women for sex. he maintains he never had sex with an underage girl, never paid for sex and never did anything illegal. last night political reporters sometime this winter, federal agents executed a search
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warrant in seized matt gates iphone, according to three people who were told about it by the congressman who proceeded to change his number in december. probably a good call. probably a good idea. that's a guess that when he sought to crack down on the fbi gathering phone data in february he knew federal investigators had his phone. that was not the only good story that drop last night. the new york times reported that the congressman's associate joel greenberg, the former tony tax collector counting has been cooperating with the justice department since last year, including about matt gates is activity. here with the latest is katie better with the new york times, one of the reporters that broke that story last night. katie, you are a reporter who's on the justice department be. so you report on van vest occasions a lot. i guess my take away from reporting, is this isn't real serious stuff, it doesn't mean he's guilty, that they'll be charges, but if this was like your best friend telling you this, you'd be worried for them.
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>> one of the things we should look as the timeline, again we know the investigators, from talking to mr. greenberg over about four months, we're learning as much as they can from him. he's not what you call a -- he is live before, there's no reason for investigators to believe everything he's ever said, so they start together evidence, including two key cellphones from mr. gates and his girlfriend, they did that the end of last year. what they can do with that kind the date is start to verify from the things that greenberg told them, or the things that he didn't tell them. another thing they can do is see just with the conversations they were having, in the months after greenberg russ first indicted last year. for child sex trafficking. to see whether or not they discussed it in whether they discussed any worries about the investigation. >> the phone here, i want to take a step back and think of this through the prism of
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bureaucratic in institutional politics. we're talking about a phone seizure, of his sitting congressman, who is a ally of the president, under a justice department being run by bill barr. in any justice department, showing up and saying we're serving u.s. search warrant congressman on your phone, is going to be a big deal. that's a big deal. >> these are serious moves. but keep in mind they do not have any charges yet, the last time publicly was when this happened was senator bird stone was -- in the coronavirus. he was one of the handful of senators investigated, but whether or not he knew information about the coronavirus. he was ultimately not charged and he was cleared. so why use seizing a phone can be serious, it doesn't necessarily mean guilt. there seems to be a distinction here which is probably worth talking about in the legal severity in the political fallout, and the ethical
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severity, which is. one category would be, paying women, who are adults, for sex. which is illegal. the other would be paying a minor. those are both being investigated. do i understand that correctly? >> yes so being a minor forget sacks, or giving minor anything of value, could be food, or drugs, or a hotel room, that is a federal crime, it comes with a ten-year mandatory minimum period. paying it a dot for sex,, that's not a federal crime, that's a state crime. so the justice department would not charge. that if you are paying adults for something of value for sex, but also forcing them to have sex, either having sex for fraudulent reads and are being coerced, that something the justice department is looking into, we don't have evidence that that has happened. there's also seems to be a number of characters here, in
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florida politics. you've got this republican official, mr. greenberg, you've got gates, you've got reporting in the new york times and other outlets about a trip to the bahamas with his hand surgeon in marijuana them businessman who's close to governor ron -- there's another republican official who shows up here. it also strikes me there that there is some political exposure broadly among florida republicans right now, as they are viewing this investigation going forward. >> absolutely, we know that one of the things the investigators have been looking at, is congressman gates has spoken with others about key senate races in florida, and whether or not there is any thing going on there. keep in mind again, congressman gates is an extremely -- local florida political story as much as a national story. these are not people who are really focusing on being cast
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out of politics, or being tested of their lobbying because of this scandal. so congressman gates, if he is not indicted, i don't see a way in which he would lose an election in this district. he still extremely popular. so while there are more implications a really important national conversation, about what we expect from politicians, and what it means to be a good member of congress, a good member of the house, but that doesn't mean that congressman gates will lose an election. >> i don't think he would lose if he were indicted, we've actually seen that play out. in a number of cases. do we know the timing of the phone and the pardon ask? that seems like, i get winter in the story, and i don't know if, it just seems like if you have your phone seized and then you're like what about a pardon? it looks like maybe you knew something was up. >> in our reporting we feel that these things happen very close together but i wouldn't want to say which one happens first.
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they were near the end of the year last year. but your point about being indicted, we have to remember the case against -- of the new jersey senator hernandez. it's a really important case to look at because he was indicted any ultimately >> he was indicted he defended himself, he was not convicted. he's a u.s. senator in good stand ing katy benner, great reporting, thank you so much. "the rachel maddow show" starts right now. good evening, rachel. >> good evening, chris. thank you my friend. much appreciated. thaing at home for joining us this hour. this is a live look at brooklyn center, minnesota, tonight where protests are expected tonight for a fourth straight evening. this is all happening after a 20-year-old man named daunte wright was shot and killed by a brooklyn center police officer during a traffic stop on sunday. that officer resigned from the force yesterday, as did the police chief in brooklyn center. today state prosecutors arrested the officer and charged her with manslaughter in the

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