tv Morning Joe MSNBC April 27, 2021 3:00am-6:00am PDT
people that have already stepped up, our young people, our young people that have already stepped up and been vaccinated and every single one of our young people, we're going to give a $100 savings bond to every single one that steps up and takes their vaccines. >> now, that's one way to get it done. that's virginia's republican governor -- >> i like the cut of that guy's -- >> jim justice announcing that strategy to get 16 to 35-year-olds in his state vaccinated. okay. i'll take it! that's one way to do it. good morning and welcome to "morning joe." it is tuesday, april 27th. we're here in washington along with joe, willie, and me. we have former treasury official and "morning joe" economic analyst, steve rattner. white house correspondent for politico and co-author of the playbook, eugene daniels. he's also an msnbc contributor. and professor at the lyndon b.
johnson school of public affairs at the university of texas, msnbc contributor, victoria dee francesco soto. good to have you all this morning. >> it's good to have everybody here. willie geist, i liked that governor justice, man. that guy knows -- you know, my parents used to say, if i actually studied, they'd let me have dinner. he's doing sort of the same thing. get a vaccine, i'll give you 100 bucks. >> your meals were contingent on studying. also, sucker for a guy with a whiteboard. just getting some ideas up there, seeing what sticks. a hundred bucks if you're 16 to 35 in west virginia. whatever it takes, i guess, if the money's there. >> i think it will stick. >> the best part is, he's always sitting down. i hear in his last 20 years in governor, chairman mao would sit
by the pool with a phone and order people around. he never left poolside. that's of course in pursuit of evil. here we have a guy, he's like, okay, i got an important thing to say. i'm not standing up. he just sits there in his chair. >> casually. i like this guy. i think we need to have him on the show. >> let's have him on. >> i think that would be fun. right now, we're going to get to the headlines. president biden is expected to announce new cdc guidance today on wearing masks outdoors. >> this is a good thing. >> dr. anthony fauci said over the weekend that new guidelines would be coming soon and stressed the risk of transmission outdoors is low, especially for vaccinated people. >> i mean, that makes sense, right? >> i think it makes sense. it's something we debated on the show and you were advocating for, i realize that. but i just think that also, a lot of adults wearing masks is a good model for society right now when a lot of people are still not vaccinated and we want to be as careful as we can.
and there are some outdoor places where people are clustered and i would suggest wearing a mask in those situations. >> willie, if you look at the numbers, they're so extraordinarily low, the percentages. and i will say, there are some people that you get on twitter and it looks like they want everybody to wear masks until the year 2525. it makes in sense. our goal is again -- our goal has been for our politicians to follow science. we were upset when donald trump didn't follow science. we have been critical of governors who refused to follow science and listen to anthony fauci when he said, open the schools, but they haven't done that. a lot of schools haven't done that. for a variety of reasons, they always make up excuses. but it's very interesting. they were angry when donald trump didn't follow science, but now they don't want to follow science. i'll say the same thing with the masks. we were in a bubble. all we all lived by the rules.
but right now there are -- there are medical doctors that are all saying the same thing. if you're vaccinated, if you're with somebody else who's vaccinated, the chances of you getting covid are so minuscule. and then, when you go outside, those numbers plummet to levels that are ridiculously low. >> doctor after doctor has come on this show in the last few weeks, really the last few months who said, if you're outside and distanced, you don't need to wear the mask. and i think you'll hear that reflected from the white house. mika's right in that one distinction that the doctors also make. yes, if you're outside, you probably don't need to wear it if you're in close contact. but if you're at a rally or a concert or all of these places where people are packed in, if you're outside, still a good idea to wear a mask. also on coronavirus, the united
states plans to ship millions of doses of its astrazeneca vaccine overseas to eight other countries struggling to vaccinate their populations. white house covid-19 adviser andy slavitt tweeted yesterday that 60 million doses of the vaccine would be sent, quote, as they become available. this includes india, this is dealing with a record number of new covid-19 cases and deaths. president biden spoke with indian prime minister narendra modi yesterday to directly discuss u.s. assistance. in a tweet, the u.s. said, india was there for us and we will be there for them. indian health officials reported more than 323,000 new covid-19 cases yesterday. joe, almost a million new cases in india over the last three days. and the united states is stepping up to help. >> you know, this is interesting, also, looking at the way that joe biden governs. this is the second example of him having a policy that some of his supporters have disagreed
with. the first, of course, those refugee numbers that we were talking about. he got a lot of pushback, a lot of blowback, and they adjusted. they adjusted the numbers for refugees. the same thing here. over the weekend, you saw a lot of supporters, but a lot of public health officials saying we as a country need to share our vaccines with other countries. not just for their benefit, but for ours. once again, you have joe biden and the biden administration adjusting. now, this is a great thing. because we've had presidents that have basically put their feet in cement and they haven't wanted to adjust to public pressure or outside pressure. i think it's great to have a leader, republican or democrat, that listens and adjusts and changes policy. and this is the second time he's done it in a couple of weeks and that is a good thing.
>> you've got to have flexibility as the science catches up with itself. president biden delivers his first joint session of congress tomorrow and the white house tells nbc news he is deeply involved in its development. press secretary jen psaki says the president will lay out specific details of his american first families plan that will expand health care, college and other items. police reform is also a priority. we're also told the president will not wear a mask during his speech, but vice president kamala harris and house speaker nancy pelosi will. join us tomorrow night on peacock where we will be covering the president's address. our coverage begins, get ready, guys, it's going to be okay, at 8:30 p.m. eastern and we'll follow the whole speech through to analyze after for quite some
time. >> so eugene daniels, wlar we expecting to hear from the president tomorrow night? >> a couple of things we're expecting to hear is health care, possibly, because he has another bill that they're putting forward, an american families plan, which is going to look at college payments, going to look at health care, all types of things we've been talking about and haven't really been spending a lot of time on. and this is health care auds of the covid-19 pandemic, right? this is medicare for all, this is the debate over a public option and all of those kind of things we'll start hearing from this white house. it's interesting, because this other plan that they're going, that the president may be laying out tomorrow is going to cost more money. so we're going to see the president talk about covid-19, how they've handled this infrastructure, but also infrastructure. they're going to be promising to spend more money and leaninging
into that kind of big government deal. you like this $2 trillion bill? i have another one, maybe even another one. that part of it is pretty fascinating. >> steve rattner and i are shaking about that right now. shaking about the deficits and the debt and the inflationary pressures. and again, this is not something that's going to impact us, but it is something that's going to impact people probably 10, 15 years from now, maybe even sooner. but mika, you look at the polling that is out there. and i want to go over these numbers with steve, because we're definitely in the minority. you look at the polling out there and whether it was the covid bill, whether it's the transportation bill, these are extremely popular with the american people. >> the latest monmouth university poll finds widespread support for the president's big domestic policy items. 68% support his infrastructure and jobs plan. 29% oppose. as for the president's spending plan, 66 f 64% support the
proposal to expand health care, child care, and college assistance. 34% are opposed. when asked which plan is more important, the majority of those polled, 54%, said both infrastructure and health care are equally important. 21% said health care should be a priority while 19% said infrastructure. and when it comes to paying for it all, 64% support raising taxes on corporations and 65% support raising taxes on individuals making more than $400,000 a year. and, joe, you know, if you remember, donald trump's pledge was to make america great again and i think a lot of people for years have been looking at our infrastructure. those who have the ability, comparing it to other countries. and it has been an issue for a long time. and i think they look at the potential of having an infrastructure overhaul in this country as good news. >> i think they do, as well.
and steve, if we wanted to find the reagan area, which i was an eager participant of from 1980 to 2020. if you want to look at the reagan area, it could be defined as such. we're going to give you fdr's benefits, we're just not going to pay for them. you'll get all the government that you need, that you want. sometimes it will be less than other times. but taxes will not be raised. there's a lot to look at here. i'm not shocked that 65% of americans want better health care. i'm not shocked that 64% of americans want a better infrastructure plan. i'm not really shocked given the vast income disparity between the rich and the poor that americans are more than comfortable raising taxes on corporations and people making over $400,000.
but that really hasn't happened in the past. there has been a reflexive, just say no to any new taxes. and this is more evidence of what we've been saying all along. and that is, we have moved beyond the reagan area, and in 2021, we are moving into a new political chapter in american history. >> i think that's exactly right, joe. the reagan area and his famous inaugural speech when he said big government is essentially the problem, not the solution, covered more forward-leaning programs. the johnson great society, the inflation and so on that occurred after that. and we've had 40 years of that. and the c change in american opinion today is striking. that americans now want more progressive government. they want government to lean in. they want government to advance all these programs and they're willing to pay for them,
although i would note that the tax proposal so far are only for people 400,000 and above. and i suspect most americans would be pretty fine with that. but we're in a whole different era of government here, both on the tax swilsd on the spending side. there's no question about that in the incredible number of proposals and programs that the new president has rolled out in a very, very short period of time. >> and it's really breathtaking that you have joe biden, a guy that somebody, yesterday, said is exceeding, i think it was john chase saying, he's succeeding by boring the republicans to death. and it goes back to what i said about republicans, they should be more like reagan, where they're ideologically conservative, but moderate temperamentally. joe biden is moderate temperamentally, but he's progressive in just about every way when it comes to his ideology. and again, let's look back, again, for younger viewers that don't remember, ronald reagan said the most frightening words
in the english language were, i'm from the government and i'm here to help. you look at the covid relief plan. you look at the infrastructure plan. you look at the health care plan. look at all of these other plans that joe biden is pushing and they're all, again, getting 65, 70, a 75% approval rating. it clearly shows those days of automatically being suspicious of any government program are in the rearview mirror. >> whether or not you like the policy, it's been an extraordinary first 100 days. and extraordinary to think that joe biden was the centrist candidate in that democratic field for the last two years, when he was running for president of the united states. that was the concern among progressives, he was too centrist. and if you talk to progressives now, if you talk to bernie sanders or elizabeth warren or congressman ocasio-cortez, frankly, they've been surprised
by how progressive he's been, surprised by how much they've gotten from him. surprised by the agenda that he has pushed so far. and victoria, if you really push down the list for the first 100 days, many people may not agree with what he's doing, but you can't help but stop and pause and say, my gosh, he certainly has done a lot? >> and he's very popular in terms of certain programs. my worry is the selling of these programs and that the biden administration is on track for that. because i keep going back to the obama administration, and we saw the affordable health care act passed. one of the largest policy pieces we've ever seen in the history of the united states, but then folks forgot about it, folks did not connect how it affected their lives. so i think what's important is when we're looking at these high numbers, remembering that these are snapshots in time, public opinion, we're fresh off the election, fresh off the passage of the covid bill, but what's
going to happen in three months, six months, nine months. i think the biden administration has a tall order in terms of going out and connecting the policy dots with folks all across the country and we see they're starting to do that. this is so important. if he wants to extend out that honeymoon and make sure that once we get to 200 days, 300 days, that the american public is still thinking about what the government has done for them. >> all right, new data released by the u.s. census bureau shows that over the last decade, the u.s. population grew at its lowest rate since the 1930s, according to data from the bureau, the u.s. population rose nearly 332 million last year, a 7.4% increase. that was the second slowest ever. and those population shifts have an impact on congress. the soap notes that for the
first time in 170 years of statehood, california is losing a congressional seat, a result of slowed migration to the nation's most populous state, which was once a symbol of the country's most expansive frontier. the ap also reports that colorado, montana, and oregon all added residents, gained a seat each. texas was the biggest winner. the second most populous state added two congressional seats while florida and north carolina gained one. states losing seats include illinois, michigan, pennsylvania, and west virginia. meanwhile, neighborhood count mattered. the census said if new york had counted 89 more residents, the state would have kept its seat and minnesota would have lost one. the census makes a big deal, joe. >> it does. and i know 89 people that live on my street that moved from new
york. over the past year, it really is incredible. in the state of florida. anybody that wants to go on these realtor sites in the state of florida, you will go to entire communities. and every house on there, they're pending sales. people are flooding there from the midwest, from new york, from new jersey, they're flooding there from county and you look at least in the midwest and on the east coast, and my gosh, all of those states that lost a seat, so many people are flooding down here. and it will have a huge impact. maybe not the impact that a lot of people are thinking. i've heard some analysts say, they're going to move from the northeast and down to florida. that's going to make the population more moderate, maybe a little more democratic
leaning. not those that i've met. they're down there for less regulations and less government. and in states like florida, they want less taxes and less government. i suspect we'll see more of a trend than we saw in 020 for the state of florida and actually see that state become even more conservative. but alex, do we have a map of the changes since 1960? speaking of florida, my friend sent this to me. since 1960, look at this, florida has gained 16 seats. new york has lost 15 seats. california has picked up 15. texas has picked up 15 seats. texas is a huge winner. illinois, minus seven.
michigan, minus six. arizona, plus six. >> that's an incredible map. look at florida and texas alone. the move to the seat belt accelerated clearly over the last decade. something that's within happening for a generation and shifting power and population in that direction. the fact of the matter is, it's really expensive to live here in new york. it's really specify to live in california in terms of housing costs and taxes. so, victoria, when you look at this map and see some of the changes in this last census. seats going to florida, texas, illinois, michigan, new york and california losing seats, what does it mean to you politically? and let's look at texas where you live. how are things changing there? >> willie, everything is bigger in texas. to be honest, though. some of us were expecting three seats, even four seats. at some point, there was talk about that. the fact that we are getting two
seats, i think, is exciting for our state, but we are a red state. we have become increasingly less red, but still red, indeed. and as we look at that map, we see that the states that have gained are republican leaning states. so we're looking forward to the midterms, to the next presidential cycle and we're going to be seeing a natural republican tilt. especially because local elections matter. and when we're looking at our state legislatures, we know that they are firmly in control of republican hands. they're very clearly giving the advantage to republicans, because texas is one of the many states that has a partisan redistricting plan. so this is going to entrench the
power of republicans that otherwise because of population shifts, you would not have seen. >> let me show you that map, steve rattner and eugene daniels. steve, what do you see on that map that sticks out to you? >> i see essentially what we've been talking about. there's been a great migration away from the northeastern states and toward the southern states. some of it was inevitable in the fact that the northeastern states are older, more mature, people got there first, and they then start to spread out around the country. but i also certainly can't disagree with your point and what i hear among people they talk at the moment that there's definitely an increased emphasis or increased interest in moving south, in large part because of taxes. here in new york, the state
legislature just raised taxes on wealthy people again. and i hear more and more from my friends, at some point, there's a tipping point. you combine the attractions of living in florida, except maybe in the summertime, with the taxes in new york that i pay and many of my friends pay, and i have no doubt in my mind. there's a saying that the pandemic accelerated everything. and i think one of the things it accelerated are people taking stock of the tax situation, the living situation, and deciding, it's time to move south. but to franchesca's point just quickly, there are huge political implications in terms of the makeup of the congress and what it's going to take to hold the congress by the democrats and get legislation done. and if you look at just texas and florida alone, it's a shift of three electoral votes and the next presidential that joe biden or whoever's running as a democrat is going to have to go find in some other state is going to have to carry a small state like new hampshire to make up for it. and it's going to make the democrats' challenge politically just all that much more
difficult. >> and as victoria says, everything's bigger in texas. you do wonder, though, about the trend lines in texas. there were some people that were expecting texas to move closer to the blue column. didn't do that in 2020. we'll see what happens over the next four to eight years. eugene, though you look at those numbers and look at the shifts, it looks like the redistricting fight is going to be even more dramatic, especially in those states that lost a seat or two. >> absolutely. you know, this is something that advocates and people who pay a lot of attention to gerrymandering and redistricting have been waiting for. this and also the numbers that we're going to see, is census bureau tells us by september 30th, right? what the actual redistricting looks like, can look like. democrats -- house democrats have a five-seat advantage in the house right now and the gop
can sooelz flip that. so this is showing us that democrats going into 2022, who are already at a disadvantage just historically, how this kind of shakes out in the first, even in the midterms for the sitting president, but now that's even worse. and when you have the redistricting, the national democratic redistricting committee's said, we think to the tune as many as 12 seats that can try to get out of these states unfairly. so that is something that we are definitely watching and is going to change power in washington, d.c. in 2022 and beyond. and that's something you talk to democrats behind the scenes and frankly in front of the scenes, and they tell us that that is one of their biggest concerns, that the electoral college, you heard about abolishing the electoral college through the 2020 primary. talking about redistricting and talking about the reasons that they think that they should really push to pass hr 1 in some
of these democracy reforms, because of these exact things that we're seeing right now. and i think you'll start hearing that in more earnest as we get closer to september 30th and 2020. >> eugene, those are great points. mika, as i was listening to eugene and thinking about all the things he was saying, i think about everything we heard generally about what happened on january the 6th and the reaction to january the 6th. and how can the republican party survive this or that. this morning, we showed poll numbers that showed how popular joe biden's policies are. policies that the republican party is opposed to. but on the hill, right over there, in the house, they're looking at the fact that kevin mccarthy is five seats away from being the next speaker of the
house. look at historical trends. by historical trends, 2022 should be a terrible year for democrats. you've got to say, nancy pelosi has a real uphill battle if they want to maintain control of the house of representatives. and if they don't, that power of the subpoena will go over to republican chairwoman on capitol hill in the house and expect the last two years of joe biden's term to be very difficult. >> still ahead on "morning joe," what does the future of the republican party look like? the answer may depend on who you ask. the divide grows between house minority leader kevin mccarthy and the third highest ranking republican, leader liz cheney. plus, internal documents from facebook reveal how the social media giant played a role in the deadly january 6th
capitol riot and the growth of the stop the steal movement. also this morning, hhs secretary javier becerra will be our guest. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. est. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. you're strong. you power through chronic migraine - 15 or more headache days a month, ...each lasting 4 hours or more. botox® prevents headaches in adults with chronic migraine. so, if you haven't tried botox® for your chronic migraine, ...check with your doctor if botox® is right for you, and if samples are available. effects of botox® may spread hours to weeks after injection causing serious symptoms. alert your doctor right away, as difficulty swallowing, ...speaking, breathing, eye problems, or muscle weakness... ...can be signs of a life- threatening condition. side effects may include allergic reactions... ...neck and injection site pain... ...fatigue, and headache. don't receive botox® if there's a skin infection.
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32 past the hour. for the first time in more than a decade, the supreme court will hear a case on the gun rights debate. the argument centers around how much protection the second amendment allows for people to carry guns outside of their home. nbc news reports the court agreed to hear a challenge to a new york state law that allows residents to carry a concealed
handgun only if they can demonstrate a special need beyond a general desire for self-protection. the court's conservatives may have been reluctant to take up the gun rights issue in the past, because they couldn't be certain of finding a fifth vote in their favor, but the addition of justice amy coney barrett providing a solid 6-3 majority likely gave them confidence to take this latest case. the case will be argued in the fall during the court's next term. >> victoria, it took the united states supreme court a very long time to where they got to in 2008, where the second amendment means that americans have a right to keep and bear arms. but that decision was fairly conservative. basically came down to the fact that you can have, you know, a handgun, you can have a shotgun in your house to protect
yourself and protect your family, but really left everything else to the states. i think gun rights advocates who expect to get a lot more than that from this supreme court, even this 6-3 supreme court may be surprised, but i am very curious to see where with the right to carry. to many americans, that's very important to them that they have the right to carry outside their homes. >> they have the right to carry, but that has to be juxtaposed with what we've been seeing in terms of gun violence across the country. i believe that every day just this year, we have seen a gun tragedy as a result of gun violence. on average of a hundred people a day die from gun violence. and where was joe biden the
weakest? in china, immigration, and guns. only 33% of the american public approves of where we are with the gun situation today in the united states. so while it looked like the supreme court is going to tilt more in favor of expanse gun rights, you see that the american public is going in a different direction. and that is worrisome in terms of understanding whether the supreme court is going in a completely opposite direction of where the public of the american public is. >> you know, willie, they should look at public opinion. perhaps some constitutional lawyers think that the supreme court should be immune from measuring where the public is, but they do that. and if they do that, they will see that almost 90% of americans support enhanced background checks and in many polls, up to 60 to 65% of states think it's okay to ban military style weapons.
the red flag laws are in the 70s. and these move back and forth, but victoria brings up a great point. we're focusing so much whenever we do these polls, but the spate of school shootings, one after another after another. not school shootings, but all of these mass shootings we've seen over the past several weeks have made joe biden's numbers really drop on that gun issue. >> he's called mass shootings a national embarrassment. he said gun violence in america is a public health crisis, so we'll be watching closely the supreme court decision. the first time the supreme court has really taken up the core issues ofheller in 2008. so guns are on the agenda. president biden, the first 100 days in office. let's start by a 30,000 foot view of what all he's taken on here. >> let me start also with a fun
fact that joe biden has issued more executive orders, more substantiative proclamations than any president since fdr by a margin and and we can take a look at a timeline of his tenure so far in office. he had quite a number of day one executive orders from rejoining the paris climate accord, the keystone climate ban, and so forth. then he moved on. some of these are somewhat symbolic. others are very, very substantiative. but everything from repealing the transgender military ban and so on and of course, in march, he signed the first of his rescue plans, the american rescue plan, 1.9 trillion. and tomorrow night, he's going to, of course, announce his third major plan and he's vaccinated a lot of people along the way. and if we turn to the next
chart, you can get a sense of what that looks like. when he took office, there were about just a million people getting vaccinated. he set a goal of 100 million people in a hundred days. some people said it was conservative, given that we were at a million. but in fact, he got to 100 million people in just 58 days. he got to 200 million people in 92 days, twice as many as he said in a little bit less time. but you can see that the rate of vaccination has begun to turn down slightly. some people think it's the johnson & johnson issue. other people think it's the anti-vaxer mentality among some parts of the country. we had a little fun with jim justice at the top of the show about the $100 payments to people in west virginia. there are serious economists who say we should pay all americans $100 or even more to get vaccinated. that the savings to the economy in terms of getting it restarted and reopened would actually be greater than that.
that's an idea for perhaps another day. but it's out there and a serious idea. we've seen the results of this in a number of ways. unemployment insurance claims are going down, gdp growth estimates are being revised up. but here's one that we haven't really looked at before, which is how americans feel. and you can see that throughout this whole period, before the last few weeks, a significant minority of americans felt that they had difficulty paying their usual expenses. that's the light blue bars that you see there. a small but a very important number said that they had food scarcity in their household. but look at what happened right after the american rescue plan passed, is that the merge of americans saying they had difficulty paying usual household expenses dropped to a new low and the percentage of americans who said they were facing food scarcity also dropped to a new low. so americans are clearly feeling better both about the substance
of what's starting to happen as well as what we talked about before, the fact that government is leaning in and is trying to solve its problems. i just will end with one last point that we've alluded to before. we can discuss this policy. we can discuss the fact that government is leaning in and applaud it for that. this is also good politics. the democrats are going to face a tough re-election as we've talked about before in the house and possibly in the senate in 2022. and having all of this forward-leaning impressive legislative rollouts as well as the executive actions the democrats believe will help them political get through what we've been discussing correctly to be a very tricky election for the democrats. >> tricky election, and we may have been having a little bit of fun with jim justice, but governor in west virginia i think has got it right. seriously, whatever it takes to get people vaccinated. if it's $100, if it's $200 --
>> compared to what it would do to the economy. >> the impact that will have on the economy, the higher those numbers go up, the closer you get to herd immunity, that is a small price -- >> the man's on to something. >> -- for any government to pay to get this economy going 100%. it also would be good, really good to see president donald trump come out and do a public service announcement without any hesitation and talk about how important it is, embrace the vaccine, embrace operation warp speed as his own. he can do it in his own way. i did this. take my vaccine. it will help you, it will help the economy, it will help your back swing, it will help reverse male pattern baldness. whatever it takes. he needs to get out there and do it, because he's one of the few
people who could get a lot of these vaccine hesitant republicans that supported him off the sidelines. that would be good for america and good for our economy. that would be good for the mental health of americans. >> the data shows that people who follow donald trump and still follow him are the ones who are vaccine hesitant. these are his people. instead of getting the vaccine in private secretly show publicly that this is something that everybody should have. steve rattner, thank you very much. coming up, "the new york times" mark leibovich joins us with his new piece, kevin mccarthy, four months after january 6th is still playing defense over trump. we'll talk about it. "morning joe" is coming right back. "morning joe" cisoming right back ♪ (ac/dc: back in black) ♪ ♪ ♪ the bowls are back. applebee's irresist-a-bowls all just $8.99. hey lily, i need a new wireless plan for my business,
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charge of the republican party. and i think as we look at 22 and '24, we are very much going to be focused on substance and the issues. and i think that's where we've got to attract back the voters that we lost in 2020, by conveying to them that, in fact, you know, we are the party that they can trust, we're the party of competence and of conservative principles. >> there you go. >> house gop conference chairwoman, liz cheney, speaking to reporters yesterday at the house gop retreat in orlando. when asked about trump's role in the party, cheney is also breaking with other members of the gop leadership team over a proposed commission to investigate the deadly january 6th riot at the u.s. capitol. house minority leader kevin mccarthy has argued that the commission should broaden its scope to include other instances of political violence, specifically black lives matter and antifa. congressman cheney disagrees
>> why not confine this committee? it's a big deal. what happened on january 6th when you had this insurrection at capitol. >> you had political violence. you had good friday and an officer killed for political belief on that capitol as well. if you're now going to put a commission together, why not look at all of the problems. >> you wouldn't agree to a commission unless it had that broader scope? >> i'm the one who asked for a commission. it's speaker pelosi who was trying to make it partisan. >> i think that what happened on january 6th is unprecedented in our history. and i think that it's very important that the commission be able to focus on that. i'm very concerned as all of my colleagues are about the violence that we saw, the blm, the antifa violence last summer. i think that's a different set of issues, a different set of problems, and a different set of solutions. so i think it's very important that the january 6th commission focus on what happened on january 6th and what led to that
attack. >> we can have a commission on what happened last summer. that's fine. and the violence that we saw last summer, that's fine. we can have a commission on that. but as liz cheney points out, what happened on january the 6th was unique in our country's history. what happened on january 6th was elected leaders, josh hawley, primarily, and donald trump, who actually conspired to cause a seditious act, to get people to come up to capitol hill, to break into the capitol, and to stop the counting. and you had people saying -- >> and people died. >> -- that they needed warrior justice or whatever was said. and since that's the first time the capitol has been breached in such a way since the war of 1812, i think that warrants its own commission. and if you want to have commissions like i'm sure we had in the 1960s when there were riots and looting, we can have
that as well. but january the 6th is a big enough incident, it's a big enough tragedy where you had people, again, trying to stop a constitutionally mandated counting. trying to stop a peaceful transition between presidents. and if kevin mccarthy doesn't think that doesn't warrant its own commission, he's delusional. >> you look at this video. kevin mccarthy is equivocaing over this. you can hear in his voice that he's emphatically pushing for some sort of distraction over this. and then you listen to liz cheney who's simply stating this for what it is. >> and the thing is, let's break away from that. kevin mccarthy, willie geist,
actually spoke out against donald trump after that. and actually said that donald trump was responsible for those images that we saw. said donald trump must be held accountable. and it's not like he said it whispering to staff members. he said it on the floor of the united states house of representatives. and he's been backtracking ever since, running down to mar-a-lago, getting his picture with donald trump, kissing up to donald trump, showing just how weak he is as a leader. backing down from protecting -- >> there's no line for him. >> backing down from protecting his own members in the house of representatives. that's just who he is. and republicans, as we said said, as i said yesterday, apparently love following weak leaders. so that's where we are. >> yeah, a lot of republicans said a lot of things in the terror of that day. remember lindsey graham's moment on the floor of senate, he said, i'm out, i'm not doing this
anywhere. and then he was back to mar-a-lago as soon as he could be. this strikes me as the height of false equivalency or whataboutism. that overrunning the capital is the same thing as antifa in portland is trarnlgs. as you say, what happens in portland frequently is terrible. but to include that in an investigation of january 26th is preposterous. >> what happens in portland. and i've been saying it nonstop. i don't want to play to what i said to anybody else here, but what happened in portland is disgraceful. and what happened in portland and that they've done to that federal courthouse building is disgraceful. but those were not attempts at sedition to stop a constitutional counting for a transition. and you didn't have people attempting to hang the vice president of the united states. so, yeah, a little bit different. >> let's bring in chief national
correspondent for "the new york times," mark leibovich. also with us, republican strategist and msnbc political analyst, susan del percio. good morning to you both. mark, let me read a little from your "new york times" magazine piece on kevin mccarthy. as the end of the trump presidency deinvolved into turmoil and violence, mr. mccarthy faced a dilemma, should he cut mr. trump loose, as many republicans were urging, or should he keep trying to make it work with an ousted president who remains the most popular and motivating force inside the gop. mr. mccarthy chose the ladder. friends say he knows better and is exasperated by mr. trump's behavior as other top republicans, but he has made the calculation that the former president's support is essential for his ambitions to become speaker after the 2022 elections, when republicans have a decent chance to win back the white house. so what did you find, mark, in speaking to mark -- to kevin
mccarthy. >> i talk to him all the time. >> i know you do. what did you find in his rationalization? how does he justify to this to himself when he looks in the mirror? >> i can't speak to that, but i think he has a very, very simple calculation here. he looks at the electoral map, the congressional map. he wants to be speaker of the house. republicans need about five seats in 2022 to get the majority back and kevin mccarthy believes that will entitle him to being the speaker of the house. that is what he's focused on. he has made the calculation rightly or wrongly that he can't do that without donald trump. he has to do everything he can to placate him, to make sure that he is somewhat in the vicinity of the reservation here. and frankly, that's where most republican voters are. and most of the voters who are going to vote in 2022 to make him speaker are, and also where
most of the republican caucus in the house is right now. and that's who kevin mccarthy needs. >> you know, mark, things are a little more complicated now than they were before january the 36th. i spoke yesterday to a lot of my friends and family members who voted for donald trump. a lot of people around, they're not going to tell a member of the media, i hated what donald trump did on january the 6th and i'll never vote for him again. but every week that goes by, there appears to be a bit more drift away from him and you hear them asking the question, i wonder who's next. is it desantis, nikki haley? who is it? and they're not telling the national media, because they distrust the national media.
but a lot of them are starting to slowly move away from donald trump. they want to turn the page and want a conservative republican party in the future. how does that slight shift complicate things for kevin mccarthy? >> i think you're absolutely right. if you look at these big polling numbers, donald trump will still have overwhelming support among most republicans today. but i think when you listen to republicans talk these days, donald trump wasn't there. that was someone's decision not to invite him there. and when you talk to enough, even elected members of congress and elected republicans who support donald trump publicly, there is a real appetite to talk about something else. when i was talking to ken
kevin mccarthy, he did not really like to be talking about donald trump. that's what he said explicitly at one point. he would rather not talk about january 6th. he would much rather talk about the border or the electoral map or much rather use more time-honored republican scoundrels like nancy pelosi and liz cheney is a very divisive figure right now. but when she speaks, she gets a lot of silent affirmation. there are a lot of people very happy inside the republican party are very happy with what she is saying, that someone saying it, because there's been a lot of silence around those
notions for a long, long time, especially since january 6th. susan del percio, where is the high ground? the higher ground for real republicans and real conservatives? >> liz cheney. >> like you. is it liz cheney and if so, are there enough real republicans and real conservatives serving right now? >> it is liz cheney and already not enough republicans with strong core values serving to stand up for what is right. let's not forget, that moment on january the 6th, kevin mccarthy could have chosen to leave. and he did for a second. and then he retreated. and that kind of fear is exactly what donald trump feeds upon. and if kevin mccarthy thinks that donald trump will actually support him in any future leadership role, i think he's crazy, because donald trump knows exactly what kevin mccarthy is. he's not going to back him. and when he starts looking at what happens in 2022, yes,
there's a good chance that republicans would take back the house, except for donald trump. look at georgia. we're talking about a lot of swing states that the republicans did hold in 2020, but may not be able to hold in 2020, based on donald trump, him endorsing more extreme right candidates in primaries, who can win and can't win back the district. this is a problem that kevin mccarthy faces. mark, i guess my question to you is, if kevin mccarthy at this point has to make a decision to buy into all of trump, does he allow liz cheney or does he want liz cheney to keep being that kind of foil, to at least keep raising traditional money and maybe keeping some traditional republican values within the republican caucus?
>> that's a great question, it's a growth point. i think she does serve a purpose for him in some ways. but in one very fundamental way, she's very problematic in that she divides the party. i think -- the problem with the republican coalition right now is for as fervent the pro-trump core of it is, there are also a lot of very, very shaky, precarious cares, and frankly, demoralized republicans who a lot of them aren't republicans anymore. a lot of them are women in the suburbs. a lot of them are utterly repulsed by donald trump. and a lot of them are not voting for donald trump and for democrats and things like the -- in the georgia senate race. so there's a lot going on here. i think -- i'm not sure how deeply kevin mccarthy has thought about all of this. he has sort of made the calculation that he cannot do anything if he alienates donald trump to a degree anymore than he already has. >> all right. it is the top of the hour and we
are in conversation with mark leibovich over kevin mccarthy and where he stands in the republican party, as it pertains to donald trump. eugene daniels of politico has the next question. eugene? >> yeah, mark, i guess i'm curious, the calculation of mccarthy and other republican leaders seems to be that while they -- you know, you talked about maybe turning the page on trump, some republicans not being interested in him being their leader, but not trumpism, the politics of overpowering people, and i'm curious who your policy was on that? >> talk about issues. the notion of conservatism, republican and it's not like people are talking, you know, that much about small government and notions like family values,
things that are very, very big in the republican party, that you heard about ten years ago or 20 years ago. right now it is around wedge issues like dr. skpoousz things like joe biden wants to get rid of meat. and we love donald trump, but we love america. it doesn't go that much deeper than that when you hear him talk about issues. and there's the knee-jerk, democrats are socialist, we're standing between here and the terrible socialist future that nancy pelosi and kamala harris and joe biden want to leave us towards. and it's always interesting how joe biden always comes last on the list. they still don't really have any sense that joe biden is someone they can run against or they know how to run against. so they're focusing on more conventional, more easy targets, that have been in the republican playbook for a long time. >> the new "new york times"
playbook. susan del percio, and eugene daniels. thank you both, as well. it is just past the top of the hour on this tuesday, april 27th. joining the conversation, we have nbc contributor, mike barnacle. pulitzer prize-winning columnist and associate editor of "the washington post" and msnbc political analyst, eugene robinson. and nbc news and capitol hill correspondent, kasie hunt, and msnbc contributor, victoria defrancisco soto is still with us as well. president biden delivers his first address to a joint session of congress tomorrow. and the white house tells nbc news he is, quote, deeply involved in its development. press secretary jen psaki says the president will lay out specific details of his american families plan that will expand health care, child care, college tuition assistance and other
domestic agenda items. the white house says police reform is also a top priority on the list, willie. >> and here's how the country is feeling about that agenda. the latest monmouth university poll finds widespread support for president biden's big domestic policy items. 68% in this poll support his infrastructure and jobs plan. 29% oppose it. as for the president's spending plan, 64% support the proposal to expand health care, child care, and college tuition assistance. 34% are opposed. when asked which plan is more important, the majority of those polled, 54% say both infrastructure and health care are equally important. 19% say infrastructure. when it comes to paying for all of this. 64% support raising taxes on corporations and 65% support raising taxes on people making more than $400,000 a year, joe. >> and kasie hunt, you look at
these numbers, look at the 75% or so of americans who supported the covid relief bill. look at the fact that 65% or so of americans support the infrastructure bill, support his plans for health care, support how he's going to fund it, either through tax increases to corporations or people earning over $400,000. and these are some of the most popular legislative items that any president, certainly over the past 10, 15, 20 years, has had going into a speech like this. >> i think that's right, joe. and i think that the biden administration knows very swell that keeping the focus on these issues where there is broad agreement, that in fact his infrastructure proposal is more popular when you tell people on the phone that, yeah, we're going to raise taxes on corporations in order to pay for it. especially after the year that we've had, people are really feeling the pinch and excited about the idea that the
proposals that the president is going to lay out are going to help focus on them at the expense of people who they have watched frankly not suffer financially during this pandemic that we've all been grappling with. the will be keeping the focus on the issues that there is broad agreement on. and that's why you see republicans focussing so much on culture war issues, on things that do divide people, because they realize, they're really struggling to put a dent in president biden right now. >> this reminds me so much mika of the contract with america. democrats complained about it every day, talked about newt gingrich wanting to open orphanages. you talk about every cultural issue they could throw at,
republicans, mean, horrible, and yet the majority of democrats voted for, i think, the items in the contract with america. and i kept sitting on the floor over those first 100 days and kept thinking, when are they going to have an response? and the house democrats never came up with an effective response. it might be one of the reasons why the republicans have overwhelmingly held the house over the past 20 to 25 years. bill clinton got a response and got re-elected. but i keep waiting for house republicans, senate republicans to get a response, because biden is doing the same thing. one popular bill after another popular bill and the legislative opponents have no response. >> the country was hungry for a
lot of things, including during the pandemic, being literally hungry. is again, donald trump said, make america great again. it was one of the best campaign slogans you would find to push people where it mattered to them and how they felt about things. but let's talk about your piece. it's kind of hard to put a dent into the democrats and into president biden's administration when you supported and continue to support someone that many consider insane. >> and that's a big part of the republicans' problem. they're still enthralled to
donald trump, down in his mar-a-lago area or dungeon or whatever you want to call it. down there sort of being puppet master, but he's not a very good puppeteer. he does it because if he were, and wanted and the republican party to regain power, he would be pushing the republicans in congress to respond, as you said, to come up with something that appeals to people, as opposed to what they're doing now, which is basically just saying "no." their response on the infrastructure bill is a pretend response. it doesn't even pretend to meet what people per see as the needs of the country.
and that's no way to regain power, although they think it is. i don't get it. and joe biden keeps chugging along with these plans that people like. >> you say, gene, that's is a pretend response. what do you think their response should look like? obviously, they're going to have problems with corporate tax increases. they're going to have problems with raising taxes on people making more than $400,000. they're claiming that much that's in this bill doesn't even have anything to do with infrastructure, which they also said about the covid relief bill. so what does a republican response look like that would be in good faith? >> well, if you don't like biden's proposals on taxes, for example, but you recognize the fact that the top 1% have gotten
the benefit of the recent tax cuts and the corporations aren't really effectively paying anywhere near even the tax rates that are -- the corporate tax rates now, because of all the tax breaks. so come up with your own plan on taxes that perceive as more fair and adjust than the current -- than biden's tax. if you don't like what he proposes, then propose something new on infrastructure. if you don't like the way he's doing it, come up with your own actual way doff doing it rather
than what they've done, which is take a bunch of existing spending, add a pittance on top of it, and call that a counterproposal. and that's not very hard to see through. and again, this is something that everybody agrees needs to be done, so come up with a way of doing it. don't try to pull the wool over everybody's eyes with a pretend plan that wouldn't do anything. >> i've got to believe it's extraordinarily popular with the american public is figuring out how to make the largest corporations on the planet, the largest corporations in america pay any taxes! right now we're debating 21%, if we move it up to 25%, can we still be competitive with the rest of the world? if you move it up to 39%, we
won't be competitive. wait a second. amazon, sorry to pick on them, they're paying zero percent income taxes. this is straight out of what you've read about greece and their fiscal crises, because the wealthiest people and biggest corporations don't pay any taxes. we can debate -- the real debate is how do we close the tax loopholes that allow the richest corporations on the planet, the most powerful monopolies on the planet to pay zero in taxes >> that's a political layup, isn't it? a big company you've heard that pays tens of billions of dollars a year pays no taxes. we can use that money to
paycheck the bridges and roads so they don't have to pay taxes. mike barnicle, as you look ahead to the speech tomorrow night, his first address to the joint session, which buttons do you think he'll push? his 100 days coming up on friday, he certainly has a lot to talk about in that short period of time. >> i think he's going to continue with what he's being doing, willie. this conversation over the last 10 or 15 minutes is really interesting. and i think joe biden has figured out where he is and who he is very, very effectively. and basically, it's this. the republican party approaches you every day and say to you, scare you. joe biden approaches the same
people each and every day, let me try to help you. there's a big difference. joe is the president, a nontleng presence in many ways. he's calm and brought an efficientness and effectiveness to his compromise. he has shown that the government can help you. you got a check in the mail to help tide you over from the economic devastation of all of our lives over the last 14 months. and now we're talking about things you experience each and every day. the roads you drive into on the way to work, the bridges that are crumbling. the inefficiency of government. the fact that in the middle of the country, you can't get broadband internet. things like that. things that actually help people. that people recognize of being a part of their lives that they want to have. i think he'll approach tomorrow
night's speech basically of who he is at heart. east president of scranton, pennsylvania. that's how people think about this. do they need a little league field in their neighborhood. it's a large scale now. he's president of the united states, but he has been thinking about these things for over 40 years. and he's brought effectiveness, efficiency and a big heart to this problem and the country has waited a long time for him. >> another thing that he has been engaged in with equality for women, equal pay, and try to improve the lives of women and make sure they stay in the workforce if they would like to be. a quarter of women say they are financially worse off a year into the pandemic.
new data released by the u.s. census bureau shows that over the last decade, the u.s. population grew at its lowest rate since the 1930s. according to the new data, the u.s. population rose to nearly 332 million last year, a 7.4% increase that was the second slowest ever. and those population shifts have an impact on congress. the associated press notes that for the first time in 170 years, california is losing a congressional seat, a result of migration to the nation's most populous state, which was once a symbol of the country's expansive frontier. the ap also reports that colorado, montana, and oregon all added residents and gained a seat each. texas was the big winner. the second most populous state added two congressional seats,
while florida and north carolina gained one, states losing seats included illinois, michigan, pennsylvania and west virginia. meanwhile, the census said if new york had counted 89 more residents, the state would have kept its seat and minnesota would have lost one. let's bring in house editor for the cook political reporter, david wasserman. and ceo of the messina group, jim messina. he served as white house deputy chief of staff to president obama and ran his 2012 re-election campaign. good to have you both. >> thank you both for being with us. and we understand we ask these questions, remembering samuel goldwyn's famous quote that only a fool would make predictions, especially about the future. and it gets increasingly difficult as you start trying to figure out what's going to happen when we move seats from say new york to florida or
california to texas. but dave wasserman, let's start with you, looking at the data, looking at the numbers, looking where the seats were lost in individual states, who's the winner from the change from yesterday? >> two points, joe. first of all, this shift from the frost belt to the sun belt and west has been ongoing for a long time. and it was less than we thought it would be. there were only seven seats that shifted states, which sing the lowest we've ever had and we are also looking at a lower gain for texas and florida and no gain for arizona which was a surprise, and a state loss in california, which when you add it up makes me wonder if there was a lower count of hispanics across the board than we anticipated. and we won't really find out until we get the detailed data by the fall. but if we look and see that some
of the most hispanic areas of the county did not have as high a count as the census estimate suggested, that could be bad news across the board for those areas and for democrats in terms of political power when it comes to drawing lines. the second point i'd make, these reapportionment numbers are not going to be as critical as how these states actually recraw their license, which will happen starting this fall. in texas, which is gaining two seats, republicans are in control. in north carolina, in florida, in georgia, republicans are in control. they could gain five seats from those four states alone. in fact, they could probably gain eight or nine and they only need five seats to take back the house. >> obviously, there's some senate races ahead that are interesting. but when you look at the congressional delegations that will be growing in some states and shrinking in others, what do
you see? >> we've got to continue to compete in some of these growing places where they're gaining electoral votes here? they look at florida, at texas, at north carolina, those are three states that democrats have competed very hard in and haven't gotten there. the most important thing from yesterday is the great state of montana gets a second seat, the first state to ever lose a seat and gain it back 30 years later. if you look at the continued move west and south, democrats have gone to show dominance in the west in picking up the seats in oregon and colorado are good for them, but they've got to be able to crack joe's old state of florida, north carolina, and texas to be competitive. >> so dave wasserman, looking at the map we've been putting up,
the change in house seats from 1960 through the 2020 census. california picking up 14, texas picking up 15, florida picking up 16, with new york down 15, pennsylvania down 10, ohio down 9, michigan down 6. what's your read on that map on those long-term trends and how it impact the future? >> so you've had this continuous shift from the northeast and the upper midwest to texas, to florida, and now california has slowed. but what's interesting is that republicans still hold on though these legislatures in the sun belt, in part because they got to draw the maps last time. it's this self-per wach waiting control that is coming under stress because a lot of democrats migranted to sunnier
climes. and in texas, democrats have made a lot of seats that weren't competitive in 2011 a lot more competitive. this may be republicans last chance in a generation to shore up their own seats and move them to higher ground. and by '29, we could be talking about those seats coming under pressure. and so i would look for republicans to be even more desperate than they were in those states ten years ago. this is going to be an arms race. there are trends. some saying that the democrats will probably do especially well. let's look at north carolina, plus three. that was a solid red state that barack obama carried in 20 ol. extraordinarily close in 2020.
i expect that will be turning blue. every four years, people predict that texas is about to tilt blue. it's getting closer, from nine points to six points, a decade ago, it was easily in double digits. but there are some of these states, you look at arizona, also, it went blue. it has two democratic senators, as well. it's not as if democrats aren't making historic gains into these sun belt states that are picking up. i think we're all -- because we remember tim russert in 2020 going, florida, florida, florida, i think we've been so obsessed with florida, we've overlooked the instant gains democrats made in north carolina, georgia, arizona and they're slowly sneaking up on republicans in texas. >> democrats have been making gains in the last couple of
electoral cycles. and all throughout the sun belt. but i think what we're seeing as a result of the census numbers is that that fraction is going to slow a little bit. just because institutionally, the folks that are drawing the lines are republicans. they're going to be drawing the lines to hold back the growing numbers democrats in these states. ultimately, the growing numbers of democrats in these state can go will overpower the districting lines, but it's going to take a little bit longer. and i want to zoom out from the political implications of the census numbers and talk a little bit more about what it means for us as a country, what it means, the fact that our population growth has slowed to historic lows. who is going to take care of us when we're old? who is going to pay into social security?
so i don't want us to lose sight of what it means is that we have a decreasing birthrate. that we have decreasing immigration. so we are going to not be able to replace ourselves. so i think that we also need the big picture in mind when they think about issues such as immigration, one that is near and dear to our heart, about how we keep american vibrancy alive. >> a fine balance. >> it's a great question. jim messina and dave wasserman, y'all are real, real spatter people. you need to help me with something. because i get adjustments in states. my understand that states move. i saw virginia's move coming. i saw north carolina's move coming. i saw georgia's move coming. i saw texas coming, but i will tell you, i never saw ohio
moving from 2012 and to 2016 to 2020 into this absolute buzz saw for republicans against democrats. and in this last election was such a huge victory for donald trump. i look at tim ryan talking about running in ohio and i think, okay, maybe he can do it. that's a stretch because it's such a progressive state. you two are the smart ones. explain to us, what has happened in ohio since 2012? jim messina? >> ohio is getting older and whiter and democrats are not being competitive in the rural
parts of ohio. barack obama carried ohio twice and now in 2020, we got absolutely killed there. and if you look at why we are just not competitive in the rural parts of the state -- >> why is that? >> -- in the south of the state where we used to do much better and just aren't, look at iowa, it's a similar story in the midwest. so while we're talking about these states that have gained, the states that have lost electoral seats are states where they really had trouble like ohio. and your question about ryan is exactly the right one. he's long been viewed as the one person who could win that state and is the best sort of general election accompanied and we're about to see if ohio is actually still doable for a democrat. if he can't win, i don't know who else could. >> jim, you know -- you're an expert in this area. why have democrats bled so much
support from 2012 to 2016 and then into 2020? joe biden was not some left-wing warrior. joe biden should have done really well out in the rural parts of the state. why have democrats fared to poorly in those areas. >> when you look at the exit polls, donald trump won handedly in ohio. so we've got to get back to an economic message that makes sense for these voters. biden didn't have the time or money to compete in ohio, didn't spend the resources, didn't need to. but big picture, that's why joe biden is focused on the economy, focus on the infrastructure and the health care plans is so important, because places like ohio will be the people that most like it. so again, the 2022 senate race will be an incredibly important
test of whether democrats can compete on the economic issues. >> dave wasserman, are ohio and florida both going to be reliably red states over the next decade? >> i would add one more point. between obama's last race and 2020, the faces of the democratic party have been urban and coastal. think about hillary clinton, chuck schumer, nancy pelosi. yeah, there's sherrod brown and to a lesser extent tim ryan, but let's be real about why tim ryan and a number of other democrats in ohio and florida are considering running statewide except for re-election of their house district, and that has because republicans might take a sledge haram to their districts. politics today is all about density, one of the reasons why arizona has swung so far of left and why georgia has become so purple is because phoenix and atlanta make up a majority of
the voting population of those states. whereas you consider, why is still quite rural. one of the reasons why north carolina hasn't quite gotten there for democrats is that charlotte and the research triangle combined only make up about 41% of north carolina's vote. it's still actually a pretty rural state, so this urban/rural divide really rules. >> dave wasserman and jim messina, thank you both very much for being on this morning. still ahead on "morning joe," did jo biden's first 100 days usher in a new era or a stalled revolution. we'll bring in the authors of these polar opposite pieces for that discussion. we'll be right back. pieces for that discussion. we'll be right back. it's my 5:52 woke-up-like-this migraine medicine. it's ubrelvy. for anytime, anywhere migraine strikes, without worrying if it's too late, or where i am. one dose can quickly stop my migraine in its tracks
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live look at the white house as the sun comes up over washington. it's great to be here. as we approach the 100th day of his presidency, president biden is enjoying broad support for his agenda, which has many progressives seeing him as a transformational president. it's an argument made by annan gearardis. but the national review's ra nesh says for all of the democrats' ambitions to transform the country, there's not a lot of transformation underway. and ranesh and ayman join us. what's happening! >> that's not unusual for me. ramesh, let's start with you. you write in your piece, brilliantly, that it's in the republicans and the democrats'
best interest to suggest there's this great progressive transformation going on. but you're not buying into it. why? >> ramesh -- >> and he froze! >> it looks annan, this is going to be a debate that you're going to enjoy. we're going to let you talk about why you think -- >> i like my chances suddenly. >> they just went up at least 5%. why don't you tell us what i think most people are saying right now, at least in democratic circles, that this is a big progressive push and joe biden is exceeding expectations on that front. and we'll try to get ramesh back. go ahead, anand. >> i don't think joe biden is a matter of persona a transformational figure. i think the country has been transformed we reality. i think the facts of america have changed the american
consensus. and joe biden's role in this is one i really admire. it's the role of someone who is persuadable by a changing reality, which not a lot of us are. a lot of us are too proud to change, to recognize that the conventional wisdom in which we were steeped is different. joe biden's role here to me is someone who has recognized that the age of reagan we've been living in since 1981, the year of my birth, i don't take responsibility for it, however, the assumption that government is the problem as reagan said in that inaugural address in that year. the assumption that government is kind of regrettable. that the market is always best at solving all types of problems. that basic spell has been with us for 40 years there have been republicans who have won in that area, and democrats who won in that err. i'm not sure he bled in his
heart, but i think what's happening now in 2021 is the breaking of that spell by reality. i don't think most americans watching this think of government as the main problem anymore. they've been perhaps sideswiped by the 2008 crisis. the government was not the problem in the 2008 crisis they've been hit by rising inequality. not paid enough. i don't think government is the problem for them in that situation. the insurance companies deny their claims. i don't think the government is the problem for them. and now in covid, the ultimate test of the only solutions are things we do together, not do alone, i don't think americans think of government as the problem as they're getting shots in the arm. so joe biden has fought for people who have shifted the sense of the normal.
and i think we're on the brink of a new progressive era, as i said, not in the middle of one yet. >> let's get ramesh in here. i think we have you back here. what say you? >> i think anand is right in capturing the zeitgeist of the biden administration, but i think that we heard a lot of the same things about the public having fundamentally rejected reaganite conservatism back when barack obama was getting inaugurated and passing his stimulus. and i just wonder whether this is going to turn out to be any truer this time than it was that time. that was in the immediate sframt of the financial crisis, when people, a lot of people thought that people's views about markets and competition and regulation might have changed forever and they just didn't. right now, we're seeing a democratic administration with a democratic congress, that is showing that it spend a lot of money, but in terms of actually
passing the legislation that democrats really want, i think we're going to see a lot zpoichlts pile up. we've already seen the $15 minimum wage get tossed in the dust bin. we'll see that again. the assault weapons ban, another thing that is just pot going to happen in this congress. this is a very, very tightly divided congress. they've got the narrowest democratic margin in the house since the rutherford b. hayes administration. and the idea we'll see this big left wing juggernaut, it's something that scares them, so both will want to talk about it. i don't know if it will actually happen. ramesh, let me talk about what we were talking about earlier this morning. i agree with you that after president obama was elected, you
look at the headlines and the editorials in the days after, it's like you would have reade predicting the death of the modern conservative movement in america. but look at the public opinion polls we've seen now. 79% of americans supporting a covid relief bill that neither you nor i nor steve rattner or nor larry summers would support because we believe it spins too much, it spends more than actually was taken from the economy, but very popular with the american people. the same thing with this transportation bill. the same thing with raising taxes on corporations, the same thing with raising taxes making over $400,000. i didn't see that in 2009. i saw the tea party begin to emerge. when you see those numbers, what do you take away from that? >> i think that spending is the -- if you want to make the
case that progressive has running republican, spending is the place where it has that. partly that's because of the way the senate works and the fact that you can pass spend bills with a bare majority and partly because republicans have lost their credibility on spending issues and lost their interest in constraining spending based on their record during the bush and trump years, that that kind of tactic on the republican side has kind of played out. on taxes, though, look at the corporate tax rate weber talking about a trump tax cut that took that from 35 together to 21%. and now democrats with joe manchin onboard want to take it all the way back to up to 25%. that is to say, leaving most of the trump rate reduction for corporations in place. that is not a left-wing revolution. it may be a bad idea or a good idea, but i don't think it is the end of reaganism. >> anand, i'll let you apply to
that directly. something we were talking about earlier is the surprise frankly of many of the most progressive members of congress as just how progressive joe biden has been, specifically in that $1.9 trillion bill package that went through to address covid relief. but embedded within it, i know you talked to ilhan omar for your piece, embedded poverty fighting measures as well. >> article number one of evidence is that you and joe and mika now say my name more accurately of ramesh did. >> i've known you a long time, anand. >> i know. so i think -- part of what i think -- i'm not a policy guru the way maybe i should be, but i think a lot about cultural waves. and to me, the new thing that is happening right now is the chip of received wisdom turning. and the issue you raise is one great example of that. since the 60s, since the rights
era, there has been this reluctance on the part of democrats to talk about the poor. and in some ways, joe biden's rhetoric in recent decades was an example of that. always the middle class. middle class, middle class. i'm joe biden, i like the middle class. that was emblematic of democrats wanting sound, particularly too white working class voters that they're the party of the middle class. they're not helping some undeserving poor welfare queen fantasy that the reaganites concocted. and that has shifted to. i spoke to for my piece in "the atlantic,," reverend william barber. and they said, they are talking about poverty, using the word poverty, installing these benefits for low-income parents and various others ways, and that's one example in which -- i think the terms of the debate have shifted.
i don't think there's that much daylight necessarily between ramesh and my's diagnosis of how far this guy has gone. that's not what i'm saying. i am talking about -- even on this show, that argument that joe and i might have had about capitalism and government six years ago is different than the one we have today, because i think reality has changed. i think there's a growing recognition that the american dream is fantastic, but it's a shame that it only exists in europe. and there's a growing desire to import it back into the united states. >> come on! no, we don't agree that much anand, we don't agree that much. but i think, really quickly to follow up on that, you know, when you have people like alan greenspan greenspan saying several years ago that income disparity is a threat to american capitalism, that's something that a lot of even libertarian/conservatives now recognize.
>> absolutely. and in a way, that's how countries change, right? not when the same pitch from the same group is continuing to preach to the choir, but when some of those arguments cross over. and for someone like you, joe, the idea of mobility, stalling in this country. the idea that people actually don't get where their talents should take them just by working hard. that's the kind of thing that might change your mind in a way that some kind of human rights argument for health care might not. and that's good. that's why i think the terms of the debate have shifted, because reality has intruded on some of the narratives that we have in this country. some of the narrative arnsd the fact where your dreams are the only limits on your rise. more and more americans know that's not the case for a whole lot of people watching this. >> and ramesh, i strongly reject any implication that i have
grown, as if i am david souter or someone else on the supreme court. let's talk about the fact how we make coming together on an issue like income disparity, but also maybe finding a wider middle on economic issues. a lot of the post-mortems by democrats. you heard democratic members of congress and senators saying, we can't go around talking about sociallyism. we can't go around, especially if we're in moderate districts talking about socialism and talking about as if that's the next way. you, of course, there's not going to be the argument that democrats need to look like larry summers, but there's also a push away from the bernie sanders wing for a lot of democrats in the middle. >> yes, i think that a lot of democrats have internalized the
idea that there are certain left wing messages that are politically toxic. abolishing private health insurance or abolishing the police. getting rid of i.c.e. those things as well as socialism are things that are electoral losers. on the other hand, they do tend to make the biden agenda look more moderate by comparison and so in a way, you could say that that push on the left has been helpful to their ultimate goals in getting policy to move in a progressive direction. but that's a risk of taking that too far. >> anand and ramesh, thank you both for an incredible situation this morning. >> come back soon. >> absolutely. we can continue this. and i wonder coming out of this conversation, ramesh said that republicans have kind of lost interest in the whole issue we are containing to spending.
so, is biden -- >> they did a long time ago? >> is biden launching a whole new progress i have era or is it just in comparison to the republicans. because what is their do they he an alternative in do they have anything that their responding with that is concrete or is it just being against thing. >> this is something nicolle wallace talked about last night, another former republican working in public service. gene robinson, now not just for the republican party, but for me more importantly for the conservative movement, you read what ross wrote in the north carolina times this past weekend, you listen to nicolle wallace, and you start seeing a republican party and a conservative movement that really has been trump fied and that they can't say we stand for smaller government, we stand for
balanced budgets, we stand for a stronger nato, we stand as a bulwark against illiberalism, against authoritarianism in all forms. they can't say that now so that does muddy up this debate between anand and ramesh who are two believers in their ideology and have remains pure even through the trump years. >> right. the republican party doesn't have a coherent ideology right now to present to the american public. so all they have is narratives, many of them made up. we stand against the democrats who want to take away your hamburgers, that is yesterday's narrative. and no, that is not what the democrats want to do. but they invent these sort of
democratic monsters on the left and then say we're going to slay them. but these are inventions. these are fantasies that they concoct and then they move on to the next one because they don't have a coherent program. it is not for a limited government, it is not for fiscal responsible, it is not a strong defense posture. it is not for the stuff that you used to associate the republican party with. ideology it is a total mess right now and it is about trying to win the morning, win the day with a false narrative about the democrats. >> you know, kasie, after the '94 election, it seemed you would go in every room, whether you're the long worth building or cannon, and there were different policy debates going on in every room.
people were running around with sheets of paper and policies that they would be drafting up and they would be fighting with other members of the republican caucus and then come together and we would take them on house floor and force our leadership, whether they wanted to or not, to have these debates on the house floor, every day was constant. i got to say, after a couple of years, it was exhausting. >> totally. >> but it was all about policy. what are we going to do with the capital gains, are we going to move to a flat tax or a consumption tax, what is best way to reform the tax code and how do we work on regulations and make sure that we have regulatory reform for small businesses that don't give big banks a free pass. we failed on that one. but you understand what i'm saying. it was a policy madhouse, now none of that. i see none of that. i hear none of that. i've spoken to republican
members through the years saying come on, come on, your in the freedom caucus. you could do this, push for balanced budget, get aggressive. use your power, even when they were in the majority, they didn't want to do it. they just wanted to own the libs. it is shocking. >> well, joe, i think this is what happens when you trade all of that that you just outlined in for a cult of personality. this is why donald trump ultimately is such a problem for all of this. because they basically watched while he threw out all of those things one after the other for his own version of the reality show that he was trying to make. and so, yeah, i mean i've covered republicans, i've covered multiple republican presidential campaigns and i flew on the campaign plane day in and day out with mitt romney, and i've covered all of the people who tried to run for president in primaries and at one point it was about what
ideas are you putting forward, what are the differences between and among you and that went completely by the wayside in the face of donald trump. and now i can't even, as someone who should know more about it than most people, i can't explain to you what they stand for any more. >> they seem to be constantly on the defense or talking about mr. potato head. i mean, someone name another issue. >> dr. seuss. >> mike barnicle -- >> hamburgers. >> we'll get to that. i'm not going to ask mike about that because then him and joe will talk about going somewhere to eat hamburgers. so mike, what could expect to hear from the president tonight? >> well, you know, that i don't know. tonight, i don't know. you mean tomorrow night. >> tomorrow night. >> but the context of what we've just been talking about, what we've just been talking about is truly fascinating. we do three hours a day of live tv here each week. that is 15 hours a week.
we could spend all 15 hours trying to answer the question that we've been circling around here for the past five or six minutes, are we witnessing the death rattle of a once great political party, the republican party. are they so enamored of one person, the former guy who has done such damage to the country as a whole, that is the first thing, the institutions of government as a whole, that is the second thing, but the biggest thing is for them, for the republicans, have they -- has he really planted the seeds of destruction within the republican party. joe scarborough, you are a expert on the republican party. but the republican party that we speak about today is not your republican party. it's not the republican party that you represented quite ably in florida, that you could articulate quite well, better
than most republicans. there is something really dangerous going on in this country right now and part of it is the republican party march toward their own death. and it is an incredible topic. it is an interesting topic. we could do it 15 hours a week and we still couldn't answer why did they get here and where they going. >> it is not bill buckleys republican party. >> it the not conservative. >> certainly not russell kirk's conservative movement and certainly doesn't borrow from edmond burk, it doesn't borrow from the customs of conservatism, but it is always a reaction and an exaggeration. again, mr. potato head, or dr. seuss, dr. seuss's family decided to do with dr. seuss privately. but, willie, what we're going to end up with is, what ramesh
would say is you're not going to get court packing but you get a commission and joe biden is not going to get a military style assault weapon ban but you'll get maybe watered down presidential executive order. but at the same time republicans will run as if he's trying to take away all guns. you even talk about a 90 issue on expanding background checks and you would think they are knocking down doors and ripping handguns away from crying mothers. >> and another element is the country watched what happened and then the reaction after january 6 among many republicans and they saw no outrage, no protest about calling out and contesting a free and fair and secure election and then excusing the behavior of the president and in fact participating in it by many of them. so when you hear outrage now,
americans stop and say you didn't care about that. that was americans storming the capitol, looking for the vice president of the united states to over turn an presidential election and you didn't care about that so any outrage that follows after january 6th or 7th falls on a lot of deaf ears in this country. >> still ahead, what we could expect to hear from joe biden about the future of american health care when he addresses congress tomorrow night. we'll ask hhs secretary xavier becerra about that and plus growing pressure from other countries the united states will soon begin exporting millions of doses of the astrazeneca vaccine, "morning joe" will be back in 90 seconds. with diabetes, fingersticks can be a real challenge. that's why i use the freestyle libre 14 day system. with a painless, onesecond scan i can check my glucose without fingersticks. now i'm managing my diabetes better
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powered by the largest gig speed network in america. but is it secure? sure it's secure. and even if the power goes down, your connection doesn't. so how do i do this? you don't do this. we do this, together. bounce forward, with comcast business. we are announcing today and we have invented this every way that we possibly can to be assured that we could use cares dollars to do exactly this. we're going to give every single one of these people, the people that have already stepped up, our young people, our young people that have already stepped up and been vaccinated and every single one of our young people, we're going to give $100 savings bond to every single one that steps up and takes their vaccines. >> that is one way to get it done. >> i like that.
>> jim justice announcing that strategy to get 16 to 35-year-olds in his state vaccinated. okay. i'll take it. that is one way to do it. good morning and welcome to "morning joe." it is tuesday, april 27th. we're here in washington along with joe and willie and me. we have former treasury official and economic analyst steve ratner and white house correspondent for politico eugene daniels, also an msnbc contributor and professor at the lind ep b. johnson school of public affairs at the university of texas, msnbc contributor victoria defrancesco soto. >> it is good to have everybody here. willie geist, i like that governor justice. that guys know, my parents used to say if i studied they'd let me have dinner. he's doing the same thing. get a vaccine, i'll give you
$100. >> your meals were contingent on studying. also a sucker for a guy with a white board. just getting some ideas up there, seeing what sticks. $100 if you're 16 to 35 in west virginia, whatever it takes. if the money is there. >> i think it will stick. >> the best part is, if you notice, he's always sitting down. >> yeah, sure. >> i hear in his last 20 years of governing, and i'm drawing absolutely to parallels, chairman mao would sit by the pool with a black phone and order people around. he never left the poolside. so that is of course in pursuit of evil. here we have a guy, who is like okay, i got important things to say, i'm not standing up to say, he just sits there in his chair. i like this guy. i think we need to have him on the show. >> let's have him on. but right now we're getting to the headlines. president biden is expected to announce new cdc guidance on
wearing masks doors. >> this is a good thing. >> dr. fauci said over the weekend that new guidelines would be coming soon and stressed the risk of transmission outdoors is low especially for vaccinated people. >> that makes sense, right. >> i think it makes sense. it is something that we debated on the show and you were advocating for and i realize that. but i think also a lot of adults wearing a mask is a good model for society right now when a lot of people are still not vaccinated and we want to be as careful as we can. and there are some outdoor places where people are clustered and i would suggest wearing a mask in those situations. >> but if you look at the numbers, they are so extraordinarily low, the percentages and i will say there are some people that you get on twitter and it looks like they want everybody to wear masks until the year 2525. again, the goal has been for our politicians to follow science.
we were upset when donald trump didn't follow science, we have been critical of governors that have refused to follow science and listen to dr. fauci when he said open the schools, get the schools open. but they haven't done that. a lot of schools haven't done that for a variety of reasons. they always make up excuses. but they're angry when donald trump didn't follow science and now they don't want to follow science. i'll say the same thing with the masks. we were in a bubble. we lived in a bubble. we've heard all of the reasons i've said regarding our children and everything else. we lived by the rules. but right now, there are -- you listen to doctors, there are medical doctors that are all saying the same thing. if your vaccinated, if you are with somebody else who is vaccinated, the chances of you getting covid are so minuscule and then when you go outside, that number just plummets to levels that are really ridley low. a mask mandate makes no sense
any more outside. >> doctor after doctor has come on show in the last few weeks and really the last few months and said if you're outside and you're distanced, you don't need to wear the mask. and i think you'll hear that reflectsed from the white house. and mika is right, if you're outside you don't need to wear it if you're not in close contact but if you're at a rally on a concert where people are packed in, even if you're outside, it is a good idea to wear a mask. it is interesting to see what the specifics of the announcement are today, we'll see in a few hours. also on coronavirus, the united states plans to ship millions of doses of the astrazeneca vaccine overseas to eight other countries struggling to vaccinate their populations. white house covid-19 adviser andy slavit tweeted yesterday that 60 million doses would be sent as they become available. this includes india dealing with a record number of covid-19 cases and deaths. president biden spoke with
indian prime minister modi to discuss u.s. assistance. in a tweet the president said india was there for us and we'll be there for them. indian health officials recorded 233,000 new covid cases yesterday, almost a million cases over the last three days an the united states is stepping up to help. >> this is interesting, also looking at the way joe biden governors, this is a second example of him having a policy that some of his supporters have disagreed with. the first of course those refugee numbers that we were talking about, he got a lot of pushback, a lot of blow back and they adjusted it and they adjusted the numbers for refugees. the same thing here over the weekend, you saw a lot of supporters but also a lot of public health officials saying wee as a country need to share our vaccines with other countries. not just for their benefit but for ours. once again, you have joe biden
and the biden administration adjusting. now this is a great thing. because we've had presidents that have basically put their feet in cement and they haven't wanted to adjust to public pressure or outside pressure. i think it is great to have a leader, republican or democrat, that listens and adjusts and changes policy. and mika, this is the second time he's done it in a couple of weeks and that is a good thing. >> you have flexibility as we -- the science catches up with itself. president biden delivers his first address to a joint session of congress tomorrow. and the white house tells nbc news he is, quote, deeply involved in its development. press secretary jen ptaki said the president will lay out specific details of his american familying plan that will expand health care, childcare, college tuition assistance and other domestic agenda items. the white house said police
reform is also a priority. we're also told that the president will not wear a mask during his speech. but vice president kamala harris and house speaker nancy pelosi will. join us tomorrow night on peacock where joe and willie and i will cover the president's address. our coverage begins, get ready, guys, it is going to be okay, at 8:30 p.m. eastern and we're going to follow the whole speech through to analyze after for quite sometime. it is late for us but i'm excited. i can't wait. >> i'm asleep by 6:00 p.m. >> you're not going to be tomorrow night. >> so what are we expecting to hear from the president tomorrow night? >> i mean a couple of things that we're expecting to hear is health care, possibly because he has another bill that they're putting forward, kind of an american families plan which is going to look at college payments, it is going to look at health care, all types of things that we've been talking about
and haven't spend a lot of time on. and this is outside of the covid-19 pandemic. this is medicare for all, this is the debate over public option, all of those things from the white house. it is interesting because this other plan that the president may be laying out tomorrow is going to cost more money. and so we're going to see the president talk about covid-19, how they've handled this pandemic but also infrastructure. how they've promised all of that money and they're going to be promising more money and leaning into that kind of big government deal. you like this $2 trillion bill, i have another one for you and maybe even another one. i think that part is pretty fascinating. >> steve ratner and i are shaking about that right now. shaking about the deficits and the debt and the inflationary pressures and, again, this is not something that is going to impact us. but it is something that is going to impact people possibly 10, 15 years from now, maybe
even sooner. but mika, you look at the polling that is out there and i want to go over the numbers with steve because we're the minority, you look at the polling out there and whether it was the covid bill, whether this is a transportation bill, these are extremely popular with the american people. >> the latest monmouth poll finds widespread support for the president's big domestic policy items. 68% support his infrastructure and jobs plan. 29% oppose. as for the president's spending plans, 64% support the proposal to expand health care, childcare and college tuition assistance, 34% are opposed. when asked which plan is more important, the majority of those polls, 54% said infrastructure and health care are equally important. 21% said health care should be a priority and while 19% said infrastructure. and when it comes to paying for it all, 64% support raising
taxes on corporations and 65% support raising taxes on individuals making more than $400,000 a year. and joe, if you remember, donald trump's pledge was to make america great again and i think a lot of people for years have been looking at our infrastructure, those who have the ability comparing it to other countries and it is been an issue for a long time and i think they look at the potential of having an infrastructure overhaul in this country as good news. >> yes, and i think they do as well. and steve, if we wanted to find the reagan era which i was a eager participant of from 1980 to 2020. if you want to look at the reagan era, it could be defined as such. we're going to give you fdr's benefits, we're just not going to pay for them. and you're going to get all of
the government that you need, that you want, sometimes it will be less than other times, but taxes will not be raised. there is a lot to look at here. i'm not shocked that 65% of americans want better health care. i'm not shocked that 64% of americans want a better infrastructure plan. i'm not really shocked given the vast income disparity between the rich and the poor that americans are more than comfortable raising taxes on corporations and peopling making over $400,000. but that really though hasn't happened in the past. there has been a reflexive just say no to any new taxes and i think this is more evidence of what we've been saying all along, that is that we have moved beyond the reagan era and in 2021 we're moving into a new political chapter in american history. >> i think that is exactly right, joe. the reagan era and reagan's
famous inaugural speech when he said that big government was the problem and not the solution. follow 20 years of failed, more intervention and forward-leaning programs of course the johnson great society and the inflation and so on that occurred after that. and we've had 40 years of that and the sea change in american opinion today is striking, that americans now want more progressive government, they want government to lean in, they want government to advance all of these programs, and they're willing to pay for them. although i would note that the tax proposals so far and biden has been very firm about this, are only designed for people $400,000 and above and i suspect most americans would be fine with that. but yes, we're in a whole different era of government here, on the tax and the spending side, there is no question about that. and the incredible number of proposals and programs that the new president has rolled out in a very, very short period of time. >> still ahead, eugene daniels mentioned health care. we'll speak with the president's point person on that.
when hhs secretary xavier becerra joined the conversation. but first, what the new census numbers mean for the balance of power on capitol hill. "morning joe" is coming right back. among my patients i often see them have teeth sensitivity as well as gum issues. does it worry me? absolutely. sensodyne sensitivity and gum gives us a dual action effect that really takes care of both our teeth sensitivity as well as our gum issues. there's no question it's something that i would recommend. it's my 5:52 woke-up-like-this migraine medicine. it's ubrelvy. for anytime, anywhere migraine strikes, without worrying if it's too late, or where i am. one dose can quickly stop my migraine in its tracks within two hours. unlike older medicines, ubrelvy is a pill that directly blocks cgrp protein,
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new data released by the u.s. census bureau shows that over the last decade, the u.s. population grew at its lowest rate since the 1930s according to data from the bureau, the u.s. population rose nearly 332 million last year, a 7.4% increase. that was the second slowest ever. and those population shifts have an impact on congress.
"the associated press" notes that for the first time in 170 years of statehood, california is losing a congressional seat. a result of slowed migration to the nation's most populous state which was once a symbol of the country's most expansive front ear. the a.p. also reported that colorado, montana and oregon added residents gained a seat each. texas was the biggest winner, adding two congressional seats while florida and north carolina gained one. states losing seats including illinois, michigan, pennsylvania, and west virginia. meanwhile, neighborhood count mattered. >> ouch. >> the census said if new york had counted 89 more residents, the states would have kept its seat and minnesota would have lost one. the census makes a big deal, joe. >> it does.
and i know 89 people that live on my street that moved from new york over the past year, willie. it really is incredible. in the state of florida, anybody that wants to go on these realtor sites, the state of florida, you will go to entire communities -- >> swaths of -- >> every house on there, they are pending sales. people are flooding there from the midwest, in new york, from new jersey, from connecticut. and you look at least in the midwest and on the east coast, and my gosh, all of those states that lost a seat, those are so many people that are flooding down here. and it is -- it will have a huge impact, maybe not the impact that a lot of people are thinking, i've heard some analysts say well they're going to move from the northeast and down to florida, that is going to make the population more
moderate, maybe a little more democratic leaning. no. not the new arrivals i've met. they're down in florida for the low taxes, low regulations, less government and i know we were just talking about the trends nationally. but in states like florida, they want less taxes and less government. i suspect we're going to see more of a trend that we saw in 2020 for the state of florida and actually see that state become even more conservative. but you look, alex, do we have a map of the changes since 1960? speaking of florida, my friend richp sent this to me. since 1960, look at this, florida has gained 16 seats. new york has lost 15 seats. >> amazing. >> california has picked up 14. look at texas. texas has picked up 15 seats. texas is a huge winner along with florida through the years. new york minus 15. pennsylvania minus 10.
ohio minus 12. indiana minus 2. illinois minus 7, michigan minus 6. look at that map. arizona plus six. >> that is an incredible map, look at florida and texas alone. and the move to the sun belt accelerated clearly over the last decade. something that is happening fore -- for a generation and as you say, joe, it is just really expensive to live here in new york. it is really expensive to live in california in terms of housing costs and in terms of taxes and all of the burdens that apply there. great places to live, but it is expensive. so victoria, when you look at this map and you see some of the changes in this last census, seats going to texas, florida, north carolina, illinois, michigan, pennsylvania, new york, california losing seats, what does it mean to you politically and let's look at texas where you live, how are things changing there? >> willie, everything is bigner texas. to be honest, though, some of us
were expecting three or even four seats. there was talk about that. the fact that we are getting two seats is exciting for our state. but we are a red state. we've become increasingly less red but still red indeed. and as we look at that map, we see that the states that have gained are republican-leaning states. obviously texas, the most republican of them all, would you say followed by florida and north carolina since we're looking forward to the midterms in the next presidential cycle and following midterms, we're going to be seeing a natural republican tilt. especially because local elections matter. and when we're looking at our state legislatures, we know that they are firmly in control of republican hands. we're drawing maps here over in the -- over here in austin and they're giving the advantage to republicans as one would expect because texas is one of the many states that has a partisan redistricting plan.
so i think this is going to entrench the power of republicans that otherwise, because of population shifts, you would not have seen. >> and still ahead, more on the how the country's financial picture impacts politics and policy. we'll talk with a first woman to run the s.e.c. when mary schapiro joins the conversation. "morning joe" is back in a moment. ment during photosynthesis, plants convert solar energy into chemical energy, cleaning the oxygen we breathe. plants clean the air. when applied to stained textiles, plant-based surfactants like the ones in seventh generation detergent trap stains at the molecular level and flush them away.
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♪♪ for the first time in more than a decade, the supreme court will hear a case on the gun rights debate. the argument centers around how much protection the second amendment allows for people to carry guns outside of their home. nbc news reports that the court agreed to hear a challenge to a new york state law that allows residents to carry a concealed handgun only if they could demonstrate a special need beyond a general desire for self protection. the courts conservatives may have been reluctant to take up the gun rights issue in the past
because they couldn't be certain of finding a fifth vote in their favor but the addition of justice amy coney barrett, providing a solid 6-3 majority likely gave them confidence to take the latest case, argued in the fall during the court's next term. >> victoria, it took the united states supreme court a very long time to get to where they got to in 2008 with heller that the second amendment means that americans have a right to keep and bear arms. but that decision was fairly conservative, it basically came down to the fact that you could have a handgun, you could have a shotgun in your house to protect yourself, to protect your family. but really left everything else to the states. i think gun rights advocates who expect to get a lot more than that from this supreme court, even the 6-3 supreme court may
be surprised. but i'm very curious to see where they go with the right to carry. because for a lot of americans, that is very important to them. that they have the right to carry outside of their homes. >> they have the right to carry and but that has to be juxtaposed with what we've been seeing in terms of gun violence across the country. i believe that every day just this year we have seen a gun tragedy as a result of gun violence. on average i believe of 100 people a day die from gun violence and another statistics in the latest numbers regarding joe biden's approval, where was he the weakest. he was the weakest in immigration and in china and in guns. only 33% of the american public approves of where we are with the gun situation today in the united states. so while it looks like the supreme court is going to tilt more in favor of expansive gun rights, you see that the
american public is going in a different direction and this is worrisome in terms of understanding when the supreme court is going into a completely opposite direction of where the bulk of the american public is. >> coming up, running america's health department is a daunting task even without a global pandemic to contend with. secretary xavier becerra joined us with the latest on administration's fight to beat back the virus. "morning joe" is coming right back. g right back
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but is it secure? sure it's secure. and even if the power goes down, your connection doesn't. so how do i do this? you don't do this. we do this, together. bounce forward, with comcast business. due to the pandemic, there is now a nationwide chicken wing shortage. and if a related story joe biden's approval rating just dropped to 3%. get this fixed. >> all right. willie, this is serious problem. and now i know what my parents endured in '73 and '74 during the opec crisis. don't take away my chicken
wings, don't take away my what-a-burger and don't take a what my crystal or chick-fil-a. but a chicken wing crisis, please. what is next? >> those lines, like we saw in the '70s at the gas stations, the lines at the buffalo wild wings and immediate action must be taken. >> joining us now, very awkward transition and i apologize for my co-hosts, the secretary of health and human services xavier becerra. >> he knows better than anybody that wings are good not only for your mental health but your overall cardiovascular, isn't that right, mr. secretary. >> i'm glad we're being serious as usual on this show. >> okay. let's actually get there right now. in terms of the vaccine rollout, by the way, thank you fog -- for being on the show, when you talk about the president's plan, getting the vaccine and bringing it to all people, what are some
of the strategies that you are using and employing to try to get the vaccine to maybe vaccine hesitant communities. the governor of west virginia is actually offering $100 bills. >> mika, first thanks for having me and absolutely, we're going to get out there and make sure we go to every corner of the country. president biden made it clear in the first 100 days woe get shotted in arms. 200 million shots in arms already. and we're seeing that americans are coming forward but in some cases in some corners of the country it is tough so rather than wait for folks to come to us, we're going to them. and so whether it is in rural america, in some of the inner city and impoverished cities of america, we're going to them. >> that is fantastic. mr. secretary, we've heard traditionally people of color have been more reluctant to take vaccines. we know understand looking at numbers that people who supported donald trump like wise are more skeptical of getting the vaccines. how helpful would it be if
president trump came forward and gave a public service announcement to get more americans to get those vaccines? >> well any time someone who you trust tells you something will work, you pay more attention and so we would love all of those who have the respect of the constituency out there to help us, whether you're a faith leader, the civic leader, just the patriarch or matriarch of a big family. we just want folks to get out there and it all helps and take a chingen wing with you and maybe you'll get a few more people to sign up as well. >> i don't want to bear down on this one but it seems to me that he would have a huge impact. do you think donald trump specifically doing a public service announcement might make a big difference in moving more americans toward getting those vaccines? >> he has a large gathering and
following and i would imagine that if former president trump got out there and really made a pitch, a lot of folks would listen. and i would hope that every american who believes that all of us deserve to be safe would get out there and pitch to their fellow americans. >> mr. secretary, it is willie geist. i promise no questions about chicken wings. at the southern border, a record number of unaccompanied came into the country, nearly 19,000 in the month of march and the numbers continue to proceed through april. over crowded facilities, you've had to set up emergency facilities down along the border. why are we seeing so many unaccompanied minors and what is being done to expedite them through the system. >> i think what is going on is remember there was a period of close to a year where the border was completely sealed. today we're trying to make sure
that for especially for children we want to make sure that we are careful with children. we don't know what the final outcome will be for these kids. they may end up being sent back to their home country. while they're here, if you see a child at your doorstep, you're going to try to keep them safe. that is our job at hhs, once we get them from homeland security, we have to make sure they're safe. we provide them with the care that they need. what happens for them, it is not us to decide but we want to make sure that child is safe. >> just as you were concerned about the facilities under president trump, there is concern about the facilities for children under the biden administration. what you could say about the well being of the kids as they are housed to be put through the system. >> that question i'm glad you asked. because we're doing this legally and responsibly and humanely. we are going to treat these kids the way any child should be
treated. again, we don't get involved in their immigration status or make a decision on whether they stay or go but we'll make sure they're safe and doing everything we can even with the numbers that have come through, even in the temporary shelters we'll make sure that they're safe. >> do you think they're overcrowded right now, mr. secretary? >> no, they cannot be overcrowded, the facilities that we run could not be overcrowded. we have legal requirements on what we could do. that is what makes it so tough. it is not an easy thing and these are not adults so the requirement is evener and remember we have covid. so the number of kids you could put in a facility before, you can't do today and that makes it more of a challenge, but we're meeting the challenge and president biden has given clear direction, do this the right way, the responsible way. >> mr. secretary, kasie hunt is here with a question for you. >> mr. secretary, good to see you this morning, i'd like to you ask about the upcoming joints address that president biden is set to give to congress tomorrow night. what are you expecting or what
would you like to hear from president biden in terms of some of the things that follow under your purview particularly on health care? >> that he's going to go big. and so far that is exactly what he's done. kate, look at what he's accomplished, who would have said that close to 100 million americans today would have been fully vaccinated. two-thirds of seniors today fully vaccinated. who would have said that in the last -- the first six weeks of the open enrollment for health insurance, 500,000 americans would have already stepped forward. all of these things are making sure that americans not only get covered, but they have good health insurance into the future and by god do we need it given things like this pandemic. and so i think the president is going to continue to go big. we're going to make sure that we clearly state why it is so important that we get vaccinated, continue to wear masks even if your vaccinated. it is just one of those things where president biden made it very clear and he's showing by example which is what you want in a leader. let me tell you, the first 100
days i defy you to find another president who could say he's done as much. >> so mr. secretary, one problem hitting households even if they've been able to find coverage, there was weakening of the rules during the trump administration that allowed insurance companies more leeway to offer plans that maybe they cost less up front but at the end of the day would cost families more because they didn't cover as many things. and ultimately controlling health care costs in this country is going to take significant courage to stand up to an industry, whether it is hospitals, drugmakers, insurance companies, is president biden going to be the person that finally has that courage because we have really struggled with this and the numbers now show that health care costs are still rising at rates that are unaffordable for americans. >> yeah, kate, what you're pointing out, some people call these plans that really don't offer you much coverage, they're low price but offer little coverage junk plans because at the end of the day it is junk. and president biden has said
we're not doing that. and because of the american rescue plan, we could now offer americans help in covering the cost of those plans that are good, that are real plans. so rather than give you a plan that will give you sticker shock in the bill after you've gone to the hospital, the president has made it clear we're going to make it affordable and that is why you saw over 500,000 americans sign up nor new plans because they found out that they're getting very, very fordable rates for the plans that they're getting that cover themselves or their families. >> we saw, mr. secretary, the number of uninsured americans go up during the trump administration just as it had gone down after the affordable care act passed in 2010. what is your goal, what is joe biden goal when you look at numbers of insured and uninsured americans, what is your goal by the end of this term? >> i think president biden made it very clear early on, you have
to bring down the cost of health care for everyone. then you have to make sure that everyone knows that they could afford it because most people think i've never been able to afford it, why even try. take a look. you'll afford it. but third, it is going to people who have never really had it. not waiting for them to come to us, go to them. let they seem that they could afford this and get covered. i was fortunate, my dad had coverage because he had a union job and union offered health care but he made very little money. not every american has that opportunity so we have to make sure that today americans know they could ford their health care. joe biden is working hard as our president to make that happen. >> secretary xavier becerra, thank you very much for being on the show this morning. >> and again, if you miss the first part of this interview. >> you didn't miss anything. >> he said chicken wings, they're just the right thing to do. >> thank you, mr. secretary. >> maybe you didn't say that. but great to see, mr. secretary. >> up next, the warning signs that facebook didn't want its
employees to read. >> chicken wings -- >> ahead of the january 6th attack on the capitol. now the report has been published and that is next on "morning joe." n "morning joe." finding new routes to reach your customers, and new ways for them to reach you... is what business is all about. it's what the united states postal service has always been about. so as your business changes, we're changing with it. with e-commerce that runs at the speed of now. next day and two-day shipping nationwide. same day shipping across town. returns right from the doorstep, and deliveries seven days a week. it's a whole new world out there. let's not keep it waiting. ♪ ♪ we made usaa insurance for veterans like martin. when a hailstorm hit, he needed his insurance to get it done right, right away. usaa. what you're made of, we're made for. usaa
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report spearheaded by facebook that details warning signs that led up to the january 6th capitol riot. the report was published to facebook's internal message board last month for employees to review. but after buzzfeed news revealed the report's existence last week, many employees were restricted from accessing it. entitled stop the steal, the growth and mitigation of the adversarial harmful movement, the result analyzed how insurrectionists' efforts to overturn the presidential election spread across facebook and how the company missed critical warning signs. the report examines how the company was caught off guard as the stop the steal facebook group was used to gather supporters. it concludes the company was unprepared to stop people from spreading hate and incitement to violence on its platform.
a spokesman for facebook told buzzfeed news that the authors never intended to publish this as a final document to the whole company and inadvertently published it to a broad audience before the authors themselves restricted access. wow. >> willie, here's another example, facebook not really being ready for the hate that was spread. we remember during the black lives matter protest, we remember right wing groups actually getting together and talking about causing problems. we had the assassination of a federal guard in oakland that visited a lot of these right-wing facebook sites. here we have facebook, i must say, a lot like law enforcement in washington, d.c. who should have been prepared for what was going to happen january 6th, should have seen the warning signs. the president warned america.
so did his supporters that 1/6 was going to be chaotic. >> and that is the takeaway from this point. however, it was published and whoever was intended to see it it sort of besides the point. if you look at the buzzfeed report, there was a stop page that started the night of the election. they shut down that thinking this was just that page and fully didn't appreciate the movement that was developing on their site. they frankly just say they were flat-footed and not ready to address it. mark zuckerberg remember last month testified before congress talking about all of this saying we've gotten better at it, we're looking at it. there's no question about it, as you read through this, their own internal document at facebook says we weren't ready for what was coming. no to president biden's pledge to cut u.s. emissions in half by 2030. just this morning teaming up with goldman sachs to tackle climate change.
they plan to help more businesses and investors capitalize on the opportunities that come with the move to clean energy. joining us now, vice chair of global public policy and special adviser to the founder and chairman of bloomberg. she previously chaired the securities and exchange commission under president obama, by the way, first woman to do so. you have a lot of firsts in your career, which we will get to in a moment. but i want to ask you about the pivotal role you think companies can play, finance sector specifically in the climate crisis. what can they do? >> thank you very much, mika. it's wonderful to be with you all. the public sector has a hugely important role to play combating climate change. we've seen really important steps from the biden administration in taking a whole government approach 20 climate. but the private sector has a role to play too because the public sector cannot do it alone. so i think there are a couple of things. one is the private sector can be
very engaged in directing capital to green infrastructure and developing markets, for example, in financing, green infrastructure here at home and across the world. but also the financial markets have an important role to play in making sure that investors are well informed about the climate risks of companies in which they want to invest. or for banks to understand the climate risk of companies they want to lend to or insurers want to insure. if investors and lenders and insurers understand the risk of climate that individual companies face through disclosure, then they will be able to invest their dollars to those companies who are best mitt zbiezing climate change and
risk. and now the biden administration has made now to reduce global u.s. greenhouse gas emissions by 50%. financial markets can be an amazingly powerful lever in this fight against climate change. >> so it's the transparency you're looking for so investments can be made, and granted maybe different decisions can be made, you think it would impact the climate crisis? >> there's no doubt in my mind transparency is the key for combating climate change from the private sector. we've led under mike bloomberg's leadership something called the task force on climate-related financial disclosure, which developed a framework that's now supported by over 2,000 organizations representing a market cap of $22 trillion and nearly 1,000 financial institutions responsible for assets of almost $200 trillion that have committed to this kind of disclosure about climate risk the companies face and financial
institutions face. and talking about that in their public filings as a way to inform the markets. and then the markets can price the risk and value assets much more accurately. when people are armed with that kind of information, they can direct their investment towards those companies who are the most sustainable. >> curious on a broader level now that the biden administration rejoined the paris agreement, what do you hope to see next in the u.s. policy even on climate change? >> i think first of all, yes, i think it's wonderful we've rejoined and stepping up to share leadership on this issue with the rest of the world after basically sitting out for four years. i think it sends a wonderful message to the rest of the world. our commitment announced last week to cut greenhouse gas emissions by 50% is also a huge step forward. and the fact that the climate fight has been put at the center of really every agency's agenda, not even agencies we would
normally think of as having a role to play here but from the state department, the defense department, the treasury is really leading here. putting climate at the center of all of these deliberations is really important of making a part of how we go forward in this country. the next step i hope to see is the securities and exchange commission, the agency i used to chair, will do mandatory climate risk disclosure rules that will ensure we get comparable, consistent information about climate risk into the marketplace. >> i mentioned the first woman to run the sec, among other things. what has drawn you though to the climate issue? >> that's such a great question. when i left the sec after the first term of the obama administration, i really was struggling to find something to do that would be as meaningful to me as my time in public service had been. the climate issue became one that seemed to me actually
brought together my understanding about corporation disclosure and how markets worked and this desire to do something of societal importance. and i believed deeply this is an existential issue. i believe deeply our children and grandchildren deserve better and we have an obligation to put this planet back on a healthy trajectory. so the combination of climate and markets was just perfect for me to get involved with. and as i said, i do think markets can be very powerful tools here. we need to use every tool we have and leverage every opportunity we have in the fight against climate change. >> former chair of the u.s. securities and exchange commission, now vice chair of global public policy and senior adviser to the founder and chairman of bloomberg, mary shapiro, thank you very much for being on the show this morning. we appreciate it. >> do we go to final thoughts with willie? >> willie, you have five seconds.
>> really quick, i think the only question to be answered now, we look ahead to the president's address to a joint session of congress tomorrow night, what will he do to stop the shortage of buffalo wings in america right now? >> exactly. >> oh, god. >> exactly. >> you threw it away. that does it for us this morning. stephanie ruhle picks up the coverage right now. >> what's the plan? >> a bucket of chicken wings -- ♪♪ hi, there, i'm stephanie ruhle, live at msnbc headquarters here in new york city. it is tuesday, april 27th. let's get smarter. this morning we're keeping a close eye on elizabeth city, north carolina. body cam footage of the law enforcement shooting that killed andrew broken expected to be released at any time. his family has seen just 20 seconds of it and they describe it as an execution. the city now under a state of emergency anticipating civil unrest once the footage is out there. in washington, d.c. with the end of his first 100