tv Dateline NBC NBC May 2, 2016 2:02am-3:00am EDT
presentation for the rap . we the jury find the defendant guilty. >> they actually think they read the wrong verdict. >> you feel so wrong. >> it's like a shot in the chest. >> despair to hope. darkness to light. tonight, a fight for freedom. in the shadow of justice. >> what happened to the teenager could happen to any one of our children. everyone should stand up and take notice. >> at 18, he was arrested for murder,ed ed adamant he was inn. >> there was no physical evidence to tie him to the crime. >> i had nothing to do with this, i swear to god. >> what could have possibly led to this? >> you stabbed that woman. you stabbed her, didn't you? >> why would he confess to something to he didn't do? >> why would he.
police interrogation? >> it shows you were there. i can't lie about the evidence. >> i can't lie to you about. i but the officer is lying about lying. >> tonight, an extraordinary look inside the interview room. >> i was scared. i was shaking. >> this is one of the most intense interrogations i've ever seen. >> welcome to "dateline," everyone. i'm lester holt. how could you confess to a crime you didn't commit? it seems to defy logic and common sense yet it does happen. advocates say far more often than any of us realizes. here's keith morrison. >> a freak snowstorm, like an omen, smothered the little town in the blue ridge mountains. february 19, 2003. just before 9am. winter or no, crozet, virginia, was unused to this. then, through the white
deadening blanket that buried the town, a piercing sound -- fire alarm. and now, the snowstorm was the last thing on fire chief preston gentry's mind. >> the tone went off for a house fire with occupants possibly trapped inside. that ramps everything up to full force. >> reporter: the alarm was on a quiet street lined with starter homes, cling lane. >> there were a lot of kids in that neighborhood. and so, you know, you're running a lot o' things through your mind when you're goin' there, who are the occupants that you're gonna have to -- to rescue so. >> reporter: the fire trucks raced to the home of a recently separated woman named ann charles and her three children. thick black smoke poured from the 2nd story eves; part of the roof had already burned away. >> we were concentrating on getting up the steps and getting into those rooms that we were pretty sure we had victims. >> reporter: neighbors crowded in behind police barricades, one of them was an 18 year old who lived up the street with his single mom. an awkward sort of kid, a bit immature for his age.
he had strep throat that morning, was taking antibiotics, but nothing could keep him from this. his name was robert davis. >> everybody goes down there and starts watching, you know. >> the fire department there by then? >> yeah, the fire department was there by then. and, we sat there and watched and, for about five minutes. and then, one of the fire department people asked us to go to a truck that was maybe 100 yards, 200 yards away to get some oxygen tanks. it felt good bein' able to help out, you know. >> reporter: carrie greenlee lived right next door. she stood beside robert, watched the fire, worried about the pretty young mother trapped in there. ann charles. >> she would come outside and play with the kids. and we would talk here and there. but she was a really nice person. >> reporter: and then, something good: ann's two daughters katie and wendie, escaped unharmed from their downstairs bedrooms. but that left ann and little thomas, just 3 years old,
upstairs. >> we put the fire out and then we started checking the bedroom for-- occupants. >> reporter: nothing good after that. upstairs, firemen found little thomas, on the floor beneath the window. dead of smoke inhalation. chief gentry steeled himself for what might be next. he felt his way through debris and lingering smoke to ann's room. >> i crawled over to the -- the bunk bed and that's where we found a victim in the bunk bed. and that person was secured in the bunk bed. both hands and both legs were secured. >> tied up? >> yep, tied up. >> reporter: now that put an entirely different complexion on things. this wasn't just a fire. >> so what'd that tell you? >> right there that tees up this is a crime scene so we basically extinguished the fire, left everything as is. >> reporter: a
larry claytor took over. >> but one thing that, that kinda jumped out, it, that was outta place, there was a five gallon bucket sitting right in the middle of the living room floor with an empty bottle of rubbing alcohol. >> an empty bottle of rubbing alcohol? >> right. it didn't look like it belonged there. >> reporter: upstairs scattered near ann's body claytor found three aerosol cans, quite probably also accelerants, all of that liquid kindling for murder. >> there was a blob of melted plastic consistent with a smoke detector melted and laying on the floor. and then there was a battery, a nine-volt battery that looked like it would go to a smoke detector, in the sink. >> so somebody had taken it out of the smoke detector and -- >> that's what it appeared to be, that someone had removed it. >> reporter: so cruel and deliberate. all the more shocking in a town where murder is exceedingly rare. said deck tv phil giles. >> that's not
occurrence -- style -- or style of a homicide. >> how did it hit you and members of the department? >> well, you have a victim and you also have a child. the child, of course, that -- that always touches you in a different way because -- [ clears throat ] excuse me. because it's a 3-year-old child. >> yeah. these things do touch you personally, don't they? yeah. >> reporter: outside, the curious onlookers were a beat behind: all they knew was that ann charles and her little boy were no more. >> it just devastated me. i was in shock. especially about that little boy. >> yeah. >> and still didn't know what had happened, really. >> reporter: wasn't long though, watching the silent stern faces streaming in and out of that little house. a person couldn't help but put two and two together. >> it was very scary and i think the whole neighborhood was scared. >> and right there, in that very neighborhood, police would find their suspects. when we come back. >> they had recovered a knife. >> quick work from
investigat investigators. two suspects, two confessions. >> it was supposed to be routine. we go in, we find the purse, we take her money, and we leave. >> these are intimate details. only those involved are gonna know. were they telling the truth? ♪ sfx: crowd cheering sfx: crowd booing ♪ sfx: crowd chanting ♪ sfx: crowd cheering ♪ sc johnson, a family company
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virginia that february 2003. but pretty soon everybody knew it was true, it wasn't any ordinary fire robert davis witnessed out on cling lane. >> you'd hear about it in the grocery store or, or the, the gas stations or stuff like that. >> so it was clear that it was a murder. >> yes, sir. >> reporter: ann charles and her three year old thomas were dead, horribly. the forensics man, larry claytor, got a better look at it than anybody. >> this is probably one of the more horrendous cases i had worked in my career. >> reporter: larry couldn't give investigators much to go on. a few small footprints in the snow out back. but forget dna, any possibility of finding that was flushed away by fire hoses. >> and then i get word from the medical examiner's office that they had recovered a knife that was stickin' in the woman's back. and -- >> what'd you think when you heard that? >> i went back to my photographs. and sure enough, in the middle of her back, was the knife. >> reporter: so, someone stabbed her, but who?
a brother-sister duo across the street, rocky and jessica fugett had been watching the fire, claimed to know the victims. robert davis and his friend kevin marsh knew them as aggressive troublemakers at high school. >> people were afraid of them, we just -- they come through the hallway, people would just move out the way for them, try not to be around them. they were always rude to people. they seemed like the world owed them something. >> reporter: and kevin's friend, the shy and awkward robert, seemed to be a favorite target. >> they used to pick on him all the time. they called him retarded, fat, ugly, stupid. >> robert said he tried to ignore it, but they knew his vulnerabilities. >> you know i tried to keep my distance from him when i could. and stay cordial wherever i -- we were in close proximity to each other. >> reporter: safer that way, said robert. in any case, the detectives paid a visit to the fugett's house, where they learned enough to march the pair down to police headquarters two days later for questioning. and rocky admitted, he was
>> i was in the house. >> i know you were in the house. >> i started out downstairs. jessica went upstairs first. i was supposed to just watch and make sure everything was happy. >> reporter: detective phil giles interviewed jessica. >> she eventually acknowledged -- she tried to say it was somebody else first. and then at some point put herself there. >> it was supposed to be routine. we go in, we find her purse, we take her money, and then we leave. that was all that was supposed to happen. >> reporter: but then rocky went way off script, said jessica, tied ann to her bed with duct tape. and turned it into murder. >> who set the place on fire? >> rocky. >> ok. who cut ann's throat? >> rocky. >> who stabbed ann in the back? >> rocky. >> ok. >> reporter: jessica told detective giles the murder weapons were a kitchen knife and a metal rod for bludgeoning. which they stashed in a hole out behind ann's house. >> she said we probably couldn't find it without her. so we drove her out there, and we walked the entire path until we got to the hole.
there." and, lo and behold, we had some evidence folks with us, reached in, discovered those two items were there. >> what was that like? >> you know that this -- these are intimate details, and only those involved are going to know where are the instruments that were used to kill someone. >> reporter: so. that was that. they had their story, and their culprits. except, there was one more very significant detail offered up by both jessica and rocky. something the town's rumor mill failed to catch by the time kevin and robert went out for the evening a couple of days later. >> we went bowling. we went out to eat, just had a grand old time. >> reporter: by that time it was after midnight, about time to go home to bed. >> we're sitting in the parking lot, talking, just laughing. and all of a sudden, multiple police cars pull up. they get out, guns drawn. they order me out the vehicle first. they get me walking backwards to them with my hands up.
>> reporter: and then, through all the terror and confusion, it dawned on kevin marsh. it wasn't him they'd come for. >> so then i see them getting robert out kicking him by his feet, knocking him to the ground, ramming his face into the asphalt, putting him in the handcuffs. >> reporter: the story the fugetts told the police? they had accomplices when they murdered ann charles. and one was robert davis. coming up. >> i was squared. i was shaking. >> now, it would be robert davis's turn in the interrogation room. >> why don't you tell me what took place that night? >> when dateline continues.
>> reporter: by all accounts, including his own, robert davis was a mama's boy. because of his child-like ways perhaps, or his learning disabilities? maybe. >> he's easy to play. he's like me. he's got a kind heart, he's gullible. >> reporter: robert seemed to need his mother sandy to protect him from the big bad world, while he took care of her when she was attacked by chronic illness. medication for which tends to slur her speech. >> he's a big dude, but he's a teddy bear. he always wanted to grow up and be in healthcare and nursing like i was.
>> reporter: mind you, robert did get into trouble once over a petty theft. and his learning disabilities landed him in a special school for several years. but the good thing? a family acquaintance was the school resource police officer. his name was randy snead. he'd known robert and his mom for years. robert looked up to randy. trusted him. so when officer snead -- now a detective with the albemarle county police, came looking for robert after the fire, sandy told him without hesitation where he could find her son. >> i said, "is robert in trouble?" and he said, "he's in serious trouble." >> reporter: but sandy had no idea just how serious -- or what was about to happen in that parking lot, where robert was hanging out with his friend. >> guns pointed at you, you're -- you're wondering what's going on. i mean, i was -- i was scared. i was shaking. >> why robert? because a
police they had accomplices -- from their high school. and he was one of them. another one was pulled in that same night -- and interviewed by detective giles and his partner. >> at the end of the interview we both looked at each other and "this kid has no idea what we're talking about. he is clueless to what we're asking him." >> reporter: so the fugetts had lied when they fingered him. the kid was eventually released. but robert? robert had a far different experience in the interview room and a different detective. >> and there sitting across from you was randy snead. >> randy snead. yep. >> you knew him. >> i knew him since i was 12 or 13. so i -- i was on first name basis with him. >> kind of a friend . >> yeah. because i've known him for so long. >> why don't you tell me, robert, what took place that night? you tell me your story of what happened. >> i was at my house, man. >> reporter: at first, robert swore that he was innocent. but six hours later, he had confessed to murder. >> i stabbed her. >> you stabbed her, didn't you? >> one -- one or two times. >> everything you've told me is true, correct?
>> true. >> everything you've done, and been part of is true, correct? >> true. >> reporter: later that day, officer snead allowed robert to call his mother. >> i said, "robert, what did you say?" he said, "since they wanted to hear that, i told them, fine." >> what did it feel like in here when you heard that from your son? >> i felt like i was gonna have a heart attack and die. >> reporter: around the neighborhood, people who had known robert for years couldn't believe it. >> he was always polite, mannerable, and i knew robert was a follower. and i just still couldn't believe that robert was involved. >> reporter: and yet, the boy said it himself. >> why would he confess to something that he didn't do? >> reporter: robert's mother couldn't afford an attorney, so the state appointed one for him. steve rosenfield. >> what was your impression of him when you first met him?
>> robert was scared to death from the first meeting -- and forever. >> reporter: and then robert told attorney rosenfield just about what you'd expect an accused murder might say. he didn't do it. he didn't stab anybody. he wasn't even there. he only confessed, he said, because he was so scared. >> did you push hard enough to find out whether or not he was actually telling you the truth or playing you? >> i take what the client tells me and i do an independent evaluation based on what i learn. >> reporter: so he watched the tape of robert's confession. which didn't look right to him. besides -- >> there was no physical evidence at the crime scene to tie robert to the crime. >> reporter: but, just as intriguine ining was this quest. >> why would rocky and jessica include a kid like robert? >> reporter: the fugett siblings, as
robert mercilessly. and he was terrified of them. surely he wouldn't help them murder the neighbor lady. yet, rocky fugett was going to tell the court just that. >> his lawyer had advised me that rocky wanted to get a favorable sentencing and was going to be testifying against robert. >> reporter: so, big problems. rosenfield knew from long experience that any jury hearing rocky's testimony and robert's confession would certainly convict. robert would very probably get a life sentence, no parole. robert's only chance of ever getting out of prison was to agree to something called an 'alford' plea. >> and we told robert that, "if you plead guilty under an alford plea, you admit that there is sufficient evidence to prove your guilt but you do not admit that you're guilty." >> reporter: it meant accepting a 23 year prison sentence. it also meant he could never file an appeal. >> 37 years of practice, it is the hardest decision that i've made to strongly recommend a
client to take a plea for something he didn't do. >> reporter: but at least it wasn't life. he was sentenced at 20, would be free in his early 40's. >> the day i was standing in front of the judge, accepting that alford plea, crying. and just praying that one day, hopefully, the truth would come out, that i wasn't there. >> reporter: the fugetts avoided the death penalty but they got what amounted to life without parole. and steve rosenfield faithfully drove out to visit robert in prison, knowing the only way to get him out was to persuade the virginia governor to issue a pardon. fat chance of that. >> it was a pretty big long shot of getting him out before the 23 years for which he was sentenced. >> reporter: and then? two years after robert went to prison, rosenfield opened the mail and found a letter from, of all people,
some information about robert that i think can be awfully beneficial. you are welcome to come visit me." >> reporter: snail mail. rest assured, steve rosenfield's drive to the prison was much quicker. >> reporter: coming up. help is on the way, from inside prison walls. and outside. >> this is one of the most intense interrogations that i've ever seen. >> that interrogation will soon be the key to the case. >> i can't lie about the evidence! >> he's lying about lying! hes only worked here for 2 years. you know i'm also a really great, leader. really have things... (toilet flushes) do it!
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was innocent, had nothing to do with the murders. >> that was pretty powerful for him to do that, considering his circumstances. nothing to gain. >> reporter: but rocky's admission wasn't enough to undo robert's confession. and then, seven years into robert's prison sentence, rosenfield answered a phone call. and there she was. laura nirider of northwestern university's innocence project is a leading expert in false confessions by young people. she represents brendan dassey of "making a murderer" fame. nirider heard about robert's case and offered to help. and, help us understand what happened to robert, as we watch the interrogation unfold. >> this is one of the most intense interrogations that i've ever seen. >> you have the right to remain silent. anything you say can and will be used against you in the court of law. >> you've got these officers -- very, very close to robert who's a big guy pushed into that corner, increasing the pressure
without even touching him. >> reporter: randy snead, a man robert has long trusted, begins the interview at 2:00am, by which time robert has been awake 18 hours. >> never been in that house? >> no. >> reporter: again and again, more than 70 times. >> start telling the truth. >> i am. >> reporter: robert insists he is innocent. >> i had nothing to do with this. i swear to god. >> reporter: nine times, robert asks for a polygraph. >> i will take a polygraph test right now. i am being honest. i will take a polygraph test. i have said that how many times. officer snead, i was not there. i will take a polygraph test right now to prove to you that i was not there. >> when you've got somebody in the interrogation room who offers to take a polygraph, that's a strong sign of innocence that should not be disregarded. >> we know you were in the house, okay? >> reporter: but then, snead's partner, terry walls, ups the ante. >> i was nowhere near the house. >> reporter: they have evidence, he says. >> we know you were in the house. we've got evidence that's going to prove you were in the house. >> reporter: they don't, by the way, have any evidence of that. though it is legal for police to lie in an interrogation.
>> there was a lot of people. >> i want to see this evidence. >> there -- you will. >> reporter: just after 3:00am, robert asks for his medicine. he has strep throat. remember, he's also asthmatic. >> i need to take my third dose. i have not taken it. >> i will give you the penicillins once we get going, okay? you work with me and i'll work with you. >> reporter: robert's been awake for nearly 20 hours. >> i'm tired. i want to go. i want to call my mom. tell her that i love her. i'm sorry for the -- all the pain that i've ever put her through. i had nothing -- i had nothing to do with this. >> reporter: more than a dozen times, he says he's tired and needs sleep. and several times, he tries to sleep on the cold floor. at 5:17am, for no explained reason, they attach shackles to robert's ankles. >> come on, man. that's too tight for me. >> reporter: more than four hours into the interrogation, randy snead tells robert he has more bad news. overwhelming evide
>> i don't need it. i've got evidence out the ass. dust is made up mostly of -- human dead skin. >> i didn't know that. >> that can be picked up. that dna -- >> i'm not gonna to be able to keep you from the worst, robert. if you don't talk to me, i can't keep you from the worst. >> i wasn't there. >> [ bleep ], robert, you were. you were there. the evidence shows you were there. the evidence shows it. i can't lie about the evidence. >> and not only was that false -- there was no d.n.a. found in this case. but, the officer then goes on to say, "i can't lie to you about this, robert," and so in fact he's lying about lying. >> reporter: officer snead tells robert he faces what snead calls the, "ultimate punishment." he also says, falsely, that he's been talking to robert's mother on the phone. >> i told your mom that i would sit here and try to keep you from the most ultimate punishment you can get, and i'm trying to do that. and you're not even helping me to help you. i can't do no more. >> what was going on in there?
officer suggesting to robert that he's gonna face death. and you also see the officer very cleverly using robert's relationship with his mother. >> reporter: and that's when robert's resolve begins to weaken. >> what can i say that i did to get me out of this? >> reporter: just before 7:00am, five hours in, robert begins to bargain. >> how many years is it gonna be, if i was just on the porch? >> how many years is -- will it be if you were just on the porch? robert -- >> when will i go home? >> huh? >> when will i go home today? will i go home now? >> i can't promise you. look, you work with me and i'm gonna do everything i can to make sure your mom -- and we can get you -- maybe get you home. >> reporter: then, hoping it might get him home to his mother, robert offers a story he hopes will satisfy snead. >> i never went upstairs. i stood right there at the door. and then once i heard something, i -- i got scared, i freaked and i
>> robert, sitting here trying to tell me -- and hide from me acts that took place is ridiculous. >> reporter: then, snead lies to robert again, this time about one of the murder weapons. >> there's an item that you touched. all right? that had left some particles on it that did some damage to somebody. >> what was that object, robert? >> i think it was a bat. >> it was -- it was a bat? >> a bat, a baseball bat. >> all right. some type of -- >> clubbing device. >> clubbing device. >> reporter: snead knows the weapon was really a metal rod. >> and then i hit her two times 'cause they said if it was -- if i didn't it would be -- >> wait a minute, now. i've got somebody else clubbing her, robert. i got someone else doing that act. >> r. >> reporter: robert had it wrong. >> he hit her in the head with this smaky-thingy. >> reporter: jessica already nf
>> you did another act. you know what that act is. and -- and we know. and that's the thing that has -- something on it, that -- that's yours. >> what would that be? >> well, you -- i -- i'm not gonna tell you. >> reporter: so again, robert starts guessing. >> i didn't rape nobody. >> no, no. i'm not saying that. >> if that's what you're trying to -- >> no. >> i didn't kill the baby. >> no, i'm not saying that. i'm not saying that you raped anybody. >> i didn't cut nobody. >> i didn't -- didn't say you cut -- >> i didn't shoot nobody. >> i didn't say you shot nobody. >> robert, i'm gonna come straight out and tell you what i was -- what -- what i'm getting. all right? since you're not gonna tell me. >> you stabbed that woman. >> i stabbed her. >> you stabbed her, didn't you? >> one -- one or two times. >> reporter: then snead asks robert where. >> whereabouts on her body? >> it was in the middle. >> reporter: and again, snead corrects him. >> you had a knife in your hand. all right? and prior to stabbing -- stabbing her in the, uh -- in the back. all right? you cut her. >> it was essentially the police's confession, not robert's.
>> do you think by me telling you this, it's gonna get me home tonight? >> tonight? >> today? >> today? i doubt it. >> well, then why am i lying about all of this to you, just so i can go home? >> you're not lying. >> i am lying to you. i'm lying to you full front -- full front to your face. i am lying to you. >> "i am lying to you just so i can go home." which is exactly what juveniles who have falsely confessed say was their motivating factor for falsely confessing. >> reporter: but by 8am, six hours after the interrogation began, randy snead, has his confession. >> what you've said tonight -- to -- up to this morning -- to me, is that a true and accurate statement? >> yes. >> okay. >> reporter: when rosenfield delivered a clemency petition to virginia governor bob mcdonnell nirdier added volumes of evidence in support. and then, as they waited for an answer. >> out of nowhere, jessica sent a "dear mr. rosenfield" letter.
cutting, stab wounds to the back, and -- absolutely adamant that robert had nothing to do with it whatsoever. >> reporter: so jessica's affidavit was sent off to the governor, too. and everybody waited, and waited. and then, on the governor's very last day in office, more than nine years into robert's sentence, a decision. denied. rosenfield, devastated, drove to the prison to tell robert. >> robert and i hugged and we cried and probably is about the most painful part of this process. >> reporter: robert's only door to freedom slammed shut. but, half a world away, someone else was watching robert's case. could his opinion make a difference? coming up -- >> isn't a confession the strongest evidence you can
>> the police detective in robert's corner, when "dateline" contin continues. ues. i think we should've taken a left at the river. tarzan know where tarzan go! tarzan does not know where tarzan go. hey, excuse me, do you know where the waterfall is? waterfall? no, me tarzan, king of jungle. why don't you want to just ask somebody? if you're a couple, you fight over directions. it's what you do. if you want to save fifteen percent or more on car insurance, you switch to geico. oh ohhhhh it's what you do. ohhhhhh! do you have to do that right in my ear? olay regenerist renews from within... plumping surface cells for a dramatic transformation -without the need for fillers. your concert tee might show your age...your skin never will. olay regenerist. olay. ageless. and try the micro-sculpting cream you love...
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dictated by one long night with officer randy knead at the miserable exhausted end of which robert said the words he cannot take back. >> you stabbed that woman. >> i stabbed her. >> you stabbed her, didn't you? >> one or two times. >> most people would say, i would never ever in a million years. >> or how could you be so stupid and not know? i was young. i didn't know. i was naive, i was scared. >> reporter: robert is not alone, of course. there are people like him in situations in jails and prisons all around the country who confessed as teenagers to crimes they maybe didn't commit. in fact, to prevent that very thing, police departments in many other countries banned or dispensed many years ago with interrogation techniques still in america. had the murder happened elsewhere, perhaps here in the united kingdom, probable robert would have been brought
as a suspect in the case, the chances he would be interviewed or charges, close to zero. >> the interview would not be legal in the uk and that evidence not admitted to trial. >> reporter: this is andy griffis, internationally recognized for interview techniques. when he was a rookie, intersection te interrogation techniques were much like the u.s. but not nominee. >> reporter: what happened to precipitate these changes? >> they happened after scandals. >> reporter: like a series of high profile confessions including an arson murder case eerily similar to robert davis'. they instigated a whole review
interrogated in custody. >> as a result, complete overhaul of the system. every officer in the uk retra retrained to rigorous standards that apply to every area of the country. strict rules put in place in suspect interviews and all interviews video recorded. >> there are two cameras and one gives a head and shoulders shot of the interviewee and if it were shown in court it gives a clear picture of you. the other gives a clear picture of you. >> no more lies. in america, it's legal for cops to lie to suspects, not here. >> reporter: could you for example go into this interview and say, i have a certain specific piece of evidence that tells me you are guilty if you don't have that evidence? >> no, absolutely not. >> reporter: can you talk to a suspect as long as you wanted to? >> no. only two hours at a t
mealtime, prayer times and nighttime. >> reporter: someone a little challenged like robert? >> they're entitled under the law to what's called and appropriate adult. that might be a parent, a social worker but they're entitled to that as well as their legal representative. >> reporter: but when the interrogation rules were changed many veteran officers were not happy. they resisted. detective trevor bowles remembers it well. >> senior people thought that this was a draconian piece of legislation that was going to prevent us from ever detecting anything ever again. >> you'd never solve a crime anymore. >> we'd never solve a crime anymore, that it was going to tie our hands behind our back and we would be unable to work with it. and they were wrong. >> reporter: very wrong. not only did false confessions all but stop, crime solving got better. >> detection rates in respect of
high. they're up in the 90% mark. >> reporter: and along the way, said griffiths, confessions, a hallmark of case-solving in the a u.s., became much less important here in britain. >> we would not prosecute somebody on -- solely on a confession. so we -- so if someone did make a confession, we would try and corroborate what they said. so you'd have the supporting evidence as well. >> but isn't a confession the strongest evidence you can get? >> not always. >> but what's wrong with it? >> what confessions tend to do is they shape this confirmation bias. people then look for supporting evidence just to -- to support what's been said because the confession exists. >> reporter: so we asked griffiths to watch with us robert davis' interrogation. and -- >> why don't you tell me, robert? >> reporter: and -- >> what this guy's problem was: he was -- he was arrested last. and what they're saying is that, "we gospel believe the people that were arrested first. so you just need to confirm what we know." well, that's clearly not a good approach for an investigator. >> ya'll obviously think i'm lying but i'm not. i swear to you that i'm not lying. i'm ready to go to sleep.
so take me, because i did not do nothing. >> the time of day of the interview, the length of the interview, the use of -- of leg irons halfway through the interview, the clear requests for medication and sleep at various points in the interview were all red flags. >> when you looked at the whole thing, as you did, you sat back and you thought afterwards. >> the lifeblood of any account is reliability. and the way this is done is you can't vouch for the reliability. >> reporter: we'd asked for his opinion, and he gave it to us: robert's confession wasn't believable. what we didn't expect was what happened a few months later. when this british detective spoke to steve rosenfield and offered to write virginia's governor. adding his support to robert davis's clemency petition. a petition now waiting on the desk of a new governor. coming up.
>> i've never been emotional in a presentation, as i feel in this case because i've grown very close with robert. >> reporter: for years, steve rosenfield made his case for robert davis to legal conferences. to anybody who would listen. and, robert remained right where he was. in prison. during those same years, we tried repeatedly to contact and interview randy snead, the officer who took robert's confession. but as close as we got was, the current chief of police of albemarle county. colonel steve sellers. he wasn't in office when snead was a detective, but -- >> you've talked to him. what's your sense of how he feels about this? >> i think he acted in the best interest. i think there wasn't a -- bit of ma i
i think he had a very strong relationship with robert davis. >> reporter: but, this was interesting. chief sellers did not support snead's interrogation. not at all. >> i will say this, i believe that the confession is an unreliable confession. >> reporter: what's more, the chief updated police methods when he took over to help prevent the kind of interrogation that ended up in robert's confession. >> i can't tell your mom that i can save you from the ultimate -- >> as you look at, what are things that would not be done? >> using terms like the ultimate punishment -- length of the interview, those kinds of things would be clearly not done today. >> reporter: cold comfort for robert davis, who by 2014, had been in prison going on 11 years. a decade plus to go. unless -- there was a new governor, terry mcauliffe in office now.
so rosenfield renewed his appeal for clemency. though he was well aware that a tiny percentage of such petitions are ever granted. and -- as month after month went by, it wasn't clear what, if anything, was happening. >> what's disturbing about the clemency process is that it's secretive. >> reporter: but what rosenfield didn't know, is that this time it was different. the governor, in fact, ordered a new investigation. >> law offices. >> reporter: and -- just before christmas 2015, we were there when the call came. the governor's office. >> hey carlos, it's -- it's steve. >> reporter: and there it was. finally. the words he'd been hoping to hear year after year after year. robert davis was about to be set free. >> i'm elated. just in time for the holidays. today is robert's mother's birthday. >> come on, sandy, pick up. >> hello? >> sandy, it's steve. set another plate for tonight's dinner. go
>> oh my god! >> i think this will be the last time i ever see this prison. >> reporter: at last, the final drive to robert's prison with the news that both had dreamed of for all those years. >> hey, robert. >> hello, hello, hello. >> how are you feeling? >> i'm elated. i can't -- words can't describe it. words cannot describe. i'm just so happy. if it wasn't for that man fighting for me right there i wouldn't be out right now. and this is just overwhelming right now. >> i'm outside of these fences man! >> hello. i'm just getting ready to pull out. yeah, it's unreal mom! as long as this ain't a dream, i'm leaving right now.
>> reporter: and that very night, robert was together again with his mother, his brother and freedom. >> robert! it's you it's you. this is my boy. he's home! >> how does it feel out here? >> it feels great, man. >> reporter: a few weeks later, we came to see robert here in his new apartment in charlottesville, virginia. his very own apartment. in which, he tells us, there is no room for bitterness. there's too much to do. >> so here we are. >> yup. this is my humble home. >> not bad. >> yeah. yeah. >> how does it feel? >> man, it feels great, man. i just -- i haven't stopped smiling since i've come home. [ laughs ] >> i can tell. >> what are you planning to do with your life now? >> get a job and thrive. i've got this opportunity, and i
know. >> that's a nice looking club. >> reporter: he's got a job, working in a neighborhood deli. and he lives under the protective eye of the man who never stopped trying to prove his innocence. and who hasn't stopped yet. robert's pardon was 'conditional,' meaning he has a parole officer, an ankle bracelet and still, a record. >> well, i don't think the final chapter has been written -- on the robert davis story. this governor expressed to me that the door was open for a reconsideration toward an absolute pardon which would erase -- expunge his conviction >> so he'd no longer have a record. just like he'd never been arrested at all. >> and that's a possibility down the road. >> reporter: which, said laura nirider, is about the least robert deserves. robert, and untold others now languishing in american
duress to something they didn't do. >> slowly, these stories are beginning to make headlines, and so now we see eyes are beginning to open. questions are beginning to be asked around the country, and that is what happened in robert davis' case. >> one night of your life made a hell of a difference, didn't it? >> yeah, yeah. >> you know, it's a small town. have you ever run into randy snead? >> he lives here, but i haven't run into him. and if i was to see him walking down the street, i'd probably just keep walking because i don't really have nothing to say to him, except for, "i told you so. i told you that i was innocent." >> reporter: so he was. so he is. >> that's all for now. i'm lester holt. thanks for joining us.
this sunday is donald trump about to wrap up the republican nomination? >> i consider myself the presumptive nominee. >> ted cruz is making a last stand in indiana. he belittles trump. >> the only thing he knows how to do, yells or screams or curses or insults. >> will cruz endorse trump if he loses on tuesday? >> why won't you answer that question straight forward, black and white. >> let me finish the point i'm making. >> my lively interview with ted cruz. plus, it's been exactly five years since the raid that killed osama bin laden. >> the united states has conducted an operation that killed osama bin laden, the lead every of al qaeda. my exclusive sitdown with john brennan on the biggest threats today, the war with isis and whether we're safer now than we were five years ago. fiy,
says good-bye for the last time to washington on the night that washington loves to love itself. the white house correspondents dinner. >> with that i just have two more words to say, obama out. and joining me for insight and analysis this sunday morning, thomas friedman and kristin welker and historian doris kaernz goodwin. >> good sunday morning. you want to appreciate how dominant donald trump's candidacy has become, trump didn't just won all five states on tuesday, all of pennsylvania's 67 counties and all 23 in maryland and all eight in connecticut and five in rhode island and all three in delaware. o
one of the 106 counties that voted last tuesday and won all but two by double digits. trump now needs just 47% of the remaining delegates to go to cleveland with the magic number of 1237. ted cruz and john kasich are mathematically eliminated. they need each 100% of delegates. journalists have gone to the cliche handbook, going for a hail mary and thrown aspaghetti against the wall. cruz's choice of carly fiorina produced very little buzz and there's this. with cruz counting on tuesday's primary in indiana to stop trump. our latest poll has trump leading ted cruz by a whopping 15 points. close to 50%. 49-34 john kasich in third at 13%. bernie sanders is in better shape i